673 thoughts on “The Bride of Christ”

1. Cliff October 16, 2017 at 7:07 am

   I appreciate your diligence in studying the word. I also understand that you are following a very traditional dispensational interpretation of scripture. I don’t fault you in that, only recognize that it is one of many philosophical approaches to interpreting scripture that definitely brings its own set of presuppositions.
   My only comment to make with regards to all the discussion here about the bride and the church is regarding your continual reference to the church being a new concept with Paul and that it was the mystery which was hidden. I would disagree with that. The mystery that was hidden was Christ in you and this was already in seminal form in Jesus’ words in John 17 vv. 23 and 26 – “I in them.”
   I think the bigger problem comes in when we start trying to understand/interpret scripture from the wrong starting place. God’s dealing with man are not defined in His dealings with Israel, nor do His dealings with Israel stand independent or outside of His original or ultimate intention. We must go back to “before the foundation of the world” to discover this and when we follow that trajectory all the way through then we will stay on the correct path and all these other things, i.e., Israel, the church, the bride, etc., play their intended role in an otherwise much great scheme that exists in God’s heart and is fulfilled only in Christ.
   Blessings

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   1. doctrine Post authorOctober 16, 2017 at 10:38 am

      Cliff,
      What was known was the Holy Spirit indwelling believers. This was part of the prophetic program and the New Covenant. But nothing in prophecy even hinted at the Church, in which Jew and Gentile would be equal in Christ. The prophets never mentioned it, Jesus did not disclose it in His earthly ministry, and Peter and the rest of the Twelve had no knowledge of it. We only find the Church, the body of Christ, revealed by Paul and Paul declared it was a secret. If you will do a study on μυστήριον you will see that pretty much everything Paul wrote was a secret. It was new theology. No one knew anything about the Church, the Rapture, the blinding Israel, salvation by faith alone, the significance of Christ’s death and resurrection in terms of salvation before Paul. Failure to understand Paul’s secrets means a failure to understand Church theology. This is the great error of Christendom and it is a 1,900 year problem.

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      1. Cliff October 17, 2017 at 5:28 am

         Thanks for the reply. I think we are on a whole different plane from one another. The is a great purpose in God than Israel, the Church, etc. These are all means by which God the Father will have His desire. His desire is a family and the Son’s desire is a body and the Spirit’s desire is a temple. This is the trajectory that I alluded to. I have done plenty study on “mysterion.” I have a PhD in New Testament. The mystery was not the church. And the mystery did not belong to Paul. The mystery was hidden by God in Christ and has now been revealed. The mystery is the reality of what God desired from the very beginning, that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree of Life and experience the indwelling, abiding, reality of divine life.

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         1. doctrine Post authorOctober 17, 2017 at 9:16 am

            Cliff,
            The word μυστήριον does not mean “mystery.” “Mystery” is a transliteration, not a translation. The word means “secret.” Paul clearly stated the Church was a secret, the Rapture was a secret, his gospel was a secret, the blinding of Israel was a secret, etc. This is not controversial if words have any meaning. No one knew these things until Paul revealed them. Paul wrote that he began the Church, even as Abraham began Israel. As such, all Church doctrine comes from Paul and is found in his letters from Romans through Philemon. Unless one understands these things one cannot understand Church theology.

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            1. Cliff October 18, 2017 at 7:25 am

               I agree with you on nearly every point. I know the word means a secret though semantically there’s really no difference. AGAIN, and you haven’t responded to this, the secret did not originate with Paul. The fact that it was a secret directly infers it existed before him. It was hidden from ages past. So the only one that could do such a thing is God. Since the fall God kept His ultimate intention as a secret. He then revealed the secret through Paul. But the point is that God did/does not have two minds and two economies. That’s where church theology goes off the tracks. God is unified perfectly in His dealings with man.
               In addition, I am completely confident that God is not concerned with our church theology! He is only concerned with what He has always been concerned with-Christ in ALL! Obviously there is much to say with regards to that but I will leave it.
               All the secrets that you refer to in Paul are simply the many realities contained in Christ and they have always existed in Him.

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               1. doctrine Post authorOctober 18, 2017 at 9:21 am

                  Cliff,
                  “Mystery” and “secret” connote different things. A secret is something hidden, unrevealed. A mystery is that which is strange or weird. What Paul called “secrets” were things previously hidden, unknown before him. No one before Paul taught the Church, the body of Christ, the Rapture, the gospel he proclaimed, or Israel’s judicial blinding. Paul received these secrets directly from the risen Christ. As such, Paul is to the Church what Abraham, Moses, and the prophets were to Israel. Paul founded the Church and is the source of all its doctrine. No Church doctrine exists outside his letters. Paul’s secrets are to the Church what God’s covenants were to Israel. They were the vehicles through which God revealed truths to the Church (secrets) and to Israel (covenants). Beginning with the Abrahamic covenant, God revealed His plan concerning Israel. They were His mediators. God would no longer deal directly with the human race. All His revelation to mankind would be mediated through a covenant people, the Jews. And they would be the source of all God’s blessing to Gentiles. God revealed no plan to bless Gentiles if Israel rejected Him. His plan of blessing assumed Israel’s obedience. But the nation rejected Christ. The next thing on the prophetic timeline was the Day of the Lord, God’s judgment. However, in His mercy, God saved Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles. Paul became proxy Israel, i.e., believing Israel, whereby God could bless Gentiles apart from disobedient, national Israel. The great error of Christendom for over 1,900 years is seeing Paul as simply a 13th apostle, an add-on to the Twelve. But Paul was an apostle of a whole new order—a new creation—the Church, the body of Christ. Everything Paul wrote was new theology. No one had every heard any of it before Paul. This is why Peter, even at the end of his life, wrote that Paul’s theology was difficult to comprehend (2 Peter 3.15-16). Perhaps some of my other articles would make this more clear to you: Paul: Chief of Sinners?, Paul’s “Mystery”, The Great Hinge, The Church (the Body of Christ), A Conversation with Paul, A Conversation with Peter.

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                  1. Cliff October 19, 2017 at 2:26 am

                     Thanks. I totally get you. I simply think you are completely on the natural level with all this and therefore you can only interpret things along the natural line. Your interpretation of things is not bad. You are just missing a huge revelation that Christ has been the entire point from before the foundation of the world. Your failing to see all the natural things in their proper place. It’s just a bit forced which is what theology always ends up doing. God can’t be packaged into tidy teachings. everything is not about Israel and the church. Everything is ONLY about Christ. It was from the beginning and always will be. God has never adjusted His purpose. He simply accommodates man’s fallenness. His purpose has never changed. It is just easy to see it that way when we operate solely on the natural level.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 19, 2017 at 8:00 am

                        Cliff,
                        All Scripture is God-breathed. Understanding the details of how God has laid out His purposes is not “on the natural level.” I understand God is bringing together all things in Christ. That’s the macro picture. But we are commanded to understand how God is doing this (2 Timothy 2.15). And how do we know God is gathering everything in Christ? From Paul. No other writer revealed this. Paul wrote of τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ χρόνου (Galatians 4.4). This related to His purpose for Israel. But he also wrote of τοῦ πληρώματος τῶν καιρῶν (Ephesians 1.10). This was a totally new revelation in which God would gather both Israel and the Church in Christ. God is interested in details and we should be too. Time and times are different and serious students of the Scriptures must get into the details. While not everything is about Israel and the Church, everything since Genesis 12 is about Israel and the Church. These two programs constitute the bulk of God’s purposes. I encourage you to become a serious exegete of the Scriptures and understand the details, the meat of God’s word, and not just focus on the big picture. There’s more to the Scriptures than you seem to think. You will not be disappointed.

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                  2. Laura August 7, 2020 at 5:14 pm

                     When the marriage is described in scripture and invitations go out to guest but are ignored and so people off the streets are invited instead; who are these ‘street people’ who are brought to the wedding?
                     As the ‘Church’, are we guest to the wedding who after the rapture and during the tribulation, celebrate with the groom in preparation for the bride?
                     I understand that as Believers we are grafted in and become apart of the body of Christ but aside from the descriptive language of a groom and a bride and a wedding party, do not both believing Jews and Gentiles make up the body of Christ?

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                     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

                        Laura,
                        The first thing that must be kept in mind is that the parables are all about Israel and the kingdom of God on earth. The second thing about parables is not to try and make them walk on all fours. They were meant to teach a general point and to try and find a one for one correspondence is not always possible. I would say the original invitees were the Israel’s religious leaders and the people in the street with the general populace of the Jews. The Church is nowhere present in any of the parables. As for the wedding during the Tribulation, yes, probably we are guests. But Revelation was written to Jews and the nations. The Church is nowhere mentioned or present. It is a different age. Both believing Jews and Gentiles compose the body of Christ but it is only Jews and Gentiles who have believed Paul’s gospel. Under the gospel of the kingdom, salvation was based on believing in the identity of Christ. We are saved by believing in the work of Christ. During the Tribulation, the gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed, not Paul’s gospel.

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                  3. Alf April 10, 2024 at 8:18 pm

                     Paul was never the founder of the church, Jesus to Peter, Matthew 16:18
                     And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorApril 11, 2024 at 11:08 am

                        Alf,
                        The word translated “church” here is ἐκκλησία, which means a group of people. It is only found twice in the gospels, Matthew 16.18, 18.17. The context shows it cannot be the Church, the body of Christ. Paul wrote the Church was a secret, Ephesians 3, God revealed to him and he wrote God founded the Church by him. See my articles The Church (the Body of Christ) and Paul: Chief of Sinners?

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            2. Kathleen Palma October 4, 2020 at 6:40 pm

               The church is th entire body of Christ all the members together are seen as one church
               Israel becomes Spiritual Israel because of indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
               Mortality must put on immortality.
               It is a knowing by drawing near to God.
               Christ is the groom
               Christ in me
               The bride is unity between the flesh and soul
               United by Spirit of Christ in you in me.

               The lion lays down with the a lamb
               Jesus broke down the middle wall creatinh in himself one from the two ..
               New Creation

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      2. Clay January 1, 2020 at 1:03 pm

         I like Cliff agree that your diligence in study is commendable. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue. I especially enjoyed the chart. I am however, a little uncertain about your proclamation that, “nothing in prophecy even hinted at the Church, in which Jew and Gentile would be equal in Christ. The prophets never mentioned it, …Peter and the rest of the Twelve had no knowledge of it. We only find the Church, the body of Christ, revealed by Paul…”

         I suppose that would depend on how you interpret the following passages and how you define church.

         Deuteronomy 32:22 which was emphasized in Romans 1:19. God said he basically would rise up a people (or nation) that were not His and make them His people and thus cause Israel to become jealous. This is probably the first prophetic hint of the reconcilation of the gentiles to be equal to Israel. It is enough to make them jealous.

         In I Peter 2:10 we see Peter mention this idea of a not his people gaining God’s mercy as well. Then we have the Prophet Hoses in 1:10 and 2:23 seemingly implying as much. (See also Romans 9:25 and 10:19)

         Now we all know the church is not simply a building or land. Though I realize the word church has doctrinal implications and debated itself. When I use the word church I am talking about a group of people who have put their faith in Jesus for salvation and received His mercy to become His people. If this is reasonable definition of the word church, then the implication is that it was foretold about by the prophets and thus revealed by God. Peter references it. Of course he himself converted the first gentile. It was God’s plan to rise up another group to be at least equal to if not greater (in order to create jealousy) than the Israelites. That people group is what by definition we would call the church.

         Thus the wild olive tree (gentiles) is grafted into the tame olive tree (Israelites). They become one.

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         1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 1, 2020 at 2:30 pm

            Clay,
            When I write about the Church, I mean that entity which began with Paul, which he called the body of Christ. It is that organism in which Jew and Gentile are equal in Christ, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, brought into Christ by believing Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification. This language is unique to Paul. Paul wrote this organism was a secret. If a secret, no revelation of it existed previously. If there were, Paul’s declaration is meaningless or worst, he lied. The vast majority in Christendom are ignorant of Paul’s secrets and do not understand his apostleship. When was the last time you heard a sermon on Paul’s secrets? Paul was not an appendage to the Twelve but God’s unique apostle to began the Church and reveal all Church doctrine. See may article, The Olive Tree. The Olive Tree is not Israel, but God’s place of favor, in essence, the Abrahamic Covenant. In other words, the Church is not part of Israel but a separate entity.

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            1. Deb Keaghey June 16, 2024 at 8:14 pm

               Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus meant if they refuse to listen to the church to treat them as a ‘pagan’ Gentile or tax collector. I don’t think the early Jews of the OT understood that the Spirit of God would reside in them giving them new life & power. “Christ in you” was the secret or mystery. But Yahweh had said he would write his Law on their hearts in the OT. They didn’t understand it would be by God’s Spirit dwelling in their spirits.

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               1. doctrine Post authorJune 17, 2024 at 8:03 am

                  Deb,
                  The “church” of Matthew 18 is not the Church, the body of Christ. The word translated “church” is ἐκκλησία, which means a group of people. In this case, it meant Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom. How ἐκκλησία is rendered is determined by context. See how it is translated in Acts 19.32, 39, 41. The KJV translated it as “assembly,” but better renderings are “mob,” “court,” and “crowd.” Paul wrote the Church, the body of Christ, was a secret. It was unknown and did not exist until Paul. Paul began the Church. See my article, The Church (the body of Christ).

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      3. Gene December 28, 2021 at 8:40 pm

         I’ll put this right here due to the fact I see no where else to post. I don’t mean to impose on your conversation. However, to say the gentile Church is not in the Book of Revelation is to exclude them from the first resurrection and the rapture [Revelation 20:6] and leaving them for the second resurrection and the Great White Throne Judgement. Only two resurrections of the dead are mentioned in God’s word, the first and second with the first beginning with Christ and to continue at a later date [The Rapture and the two witnesses]. You might want to rethink that one. Also the resurrected saints in the Book of Matthew died again just as Lazarus did and others in both the Old Testament and New Testament who were raised back to life before the crucifixion. Jesus is the first resurrection fruit and the only one who has ascended to Heaven in the flesh [John 3:10-13], not them as they were resurrected before Him and while He was still on the cross. Dispensationalist have many biblical errors in their doctrine, however, they also have just as many correct. My advice to you would be to not rely on your own intellect to understand the Holy scriptures [Proverbs 3:5-6 ], but follow the Holy Spirit in faith. That’s all I wanted to say.

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         1. doctrine Post authorDecember 28, 2021 at 9:30 pm

            Gene,
            The Church is neither Jew or Gentile. It is a new creation. God removes it at the Rapture, prior to all the events in Revelation. The Church cannot go through the Tribulation because the Scriptures say so. It cannot because it is not part of God’s prophetic program, which concerns Jews and Gentiles. The Bible teaches several resurrections of life and one resurrection of condemnation. See my article, The Resurrection.

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            1. Jim Black March 18, 2024 at 9:03 am

               Greetings Pastor,

               If the dead in Christ are raised before the tribulation, how can there be a second resurrection after it? (Rev. 20:6) Isn’t there just one resurrection of the just and the unjust?Jim

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               1. doctrine Post authorMarch 18, 2024 at 10:58 am

                  Jim,
                  Please see the article, The Resurrection. It explains the resurrection order.

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      4. Maxwell November 8, 2022 at 7:28 pm

         Sorry but Jesus did disclose it (you said He did not), read Matthew where He clearly talks about establishing the yet future church on the Rock of Christ.

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         1. doctrine Post authorNovember 8, 2022 at 8:01 pm

            Maxwell,
            No, Jesus did not say this. He said, “On this Rock, I will build my ἐκκλησίαν.” What this word mean is determined by context. It only occurs two times in the Gospels, here and in Matthew 18.17. It should be clear to anyone that Jesus was not talking about what we call the Church for Jesus said that if one did not listen, he was to be regarded as a Gentile. Most of the Church is composed one Gentiles so that would make no sense. Read Acts 19. There, the noun ἐκκλησία is used three times, in verses 32, 39, 41. None meant “church.” What does it mean? It means a mob, a court, and a crowd. The word ἐκκλησίαν simply means a group of people. A specific meaning is determined by the context. That is the way language works. So, what is the context of Matthew 16? Jesus was speaking to Jews about who He was, which was the gospel of the kingdom. He ministered only to Jews (with a couple exceptions). They were to believe who He was for salvation. No one is saved today by believing who Jesus is. One is saved by believing He died for one’ sins and rose from the dead. That is how one becomes a member of the Church, the body of Christ. Peter did not tell the Jew this at Pentecost and the Church clearly did not begin at Pentecost. Had it, Peter would have addressed Jews and Gentiles and told them to believe Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead. He would have said Jews and Gentiles were equal in Christ. Nothing of the kind occurred. What Jesus said to Peter was that those who believed who He was would become His ἐκκλησίαν, His congregation. But the Church was a secret, which is what Paul declared. It was unknown until the Lord revealed it to Paul.

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            1. Francis L Bibbo August 13, 2023 at 4:42 pm

               “No one is saved today by believing who Jesus is.” I must ask about Romans 10: 9 as you once mentioned to me: “so we believe and so we speak” 2 Cor 4:13. Much of my personal evangelism has had to do with the Romans 10: 9-13: I am having a difficult time with your statement and hope you can clarify for me. If it does not matter to a person that Jesus is God in the flesh, why would it matter that He left heaven to come and die for my sins?

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               1. doctrine Post authorAugust 13, 2023 at 5:00 pm

                  Francis,
                  The message of the gospel of the kingdom was the identity of Jesus of Nazareth, that He was the Christ. That was message of salvation. See Matthew 16.16, John 1.48-51, 11.25-27. The message of salvation today, Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4, concerns Christ’s work, He died for our sins and rose from the dead. We believe Jesus is the Christ, but that is not what saves. What saves today is trusting that He died for our sins and rose from the dead. The clearest salvation passage is 1 Corinthians 15.1-4.

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         2. Joe November 9, 2022 at 6:04 am

            Maxwell,

            An example of context–

            The three letters b o w can mean the following depending on context

            a knot tied with two loops –a bow tie
            a person with long hair tied back in a bow
            a weapon for shooting arrows
            a long, partially curved rod with horsehair
            the front of a boat
            to bend at the waste

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            1. George Baker September 29, 2024 at 1:48 pm

               The first time the word “bow” is used in scripture
               Genesis 9:13-16 KJV
               I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. [14] And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: [15] And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. [16] And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

               So it seems the word bow is used as a sign of the covenant God made. The rider on the white horse comes with a bow and makes a 7 year covenant with Israel.

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      5. Dan June 29, 2024 at 11:16 pm

         How did Paul persecute the church of God and waste it if he started it? It seems you are using the context argument to divide the church into different entities. Ephesians 2:11ff clearly says that God has broken down the middle wall of partition. That context clearly indicates both the Circumcision (believing Israel) and the Uncircumcision (believing Gentiles) are made one in Christ. The apostles are both the foundation of the church according to Paul’s writings inspired by the Spirit, and they are also ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel according to Jesus. How can they be both if they are totally distinct?

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         1. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2024 at 9:19 am

            Dan,
            The word translate “church” is ἐκκλησία and just means a group of people. Context determines meaning. Paul did not persecute the Church, the body of Christ, but Jews who believed Jesus was the Christ. They were not the Church.

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   2. Mark Foster July 28, 2024 at 12:23 pm

      I hope it is OK to ask for this, but does Cliff have any books he has published? Or maybe a website? I would really like to read them. The way I think is in line with what he is saying here. Please let me know. Thank you.

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2. Cliff October 19, 2017 at 1:25 pm

   Thanks again for your delegent response. I would encourage you to perhaps be a little more tolerant (loving) in your judgement of my ability to exegete scripture. It is no small thing for me to be examined by you or anyone else. I will reserve my judgement until Christ returns and rewards each according to the intentions of the heart.
   I think the fundamental difference between us is that you are quite happy to create theology and to allow it to define your understanding of God. I’ve been down that road and found out there’s no life. But that is just my experience.
   I wouldn’t say my focus is only on the big picture. I would say it is the only picture that matters to the Father. I just don’t think you have enough of a Chrstological emphasis in your interpretation of all the scripture.
   I leave you with one provoking question -Is it possible to know God and to have a personal salvation experience with Jesus and live a fruitful life unto God without having access to a bible?
   Enjoy the journey. I am confident we will meet one day. Then we will know as we have been fully known.

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   1. doctrine Post authorOctober 19, 2017 at 2:15 pm

      Cliff,
      I am discovering theology, not creating it. I have little tolerance when I look around Christendom and see the ignorance, error, and dearth of knowledge of God. Those whom God have blessed with theological training should be teaching people the details and richness of God’s glory and purposes. You seem to have little interest in these specifics and to be blunt, it appears you are just lazy. God has given us the Bible to know Him. If all God wanted us to know was that everything would be summed up in Christ God would have given us a Bible with a single page. We are commanded to study the Scriptures. Not to do so is to disobey God. Have you forgotten Jesus replied to Satan, “Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God?” Paul declared the Scriptures are God-breathed. They give spiritual life even as God breathed life into Adam. Again, I would encourage you to be an obedient believer and teach the details. They all concern Christ.

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3. Cliff October 19, 2017 at 3:18 pm

   Again I agree. I have given my life to do just that. I have really not shared any of my beliefs about issues that I have studied in depth over the years. I am quite “confident” in what the Lord has shown me about many things in His word. I just find your strong dispensational framework a bit hard to swallow. I just don’t see the lines drawn the same way you do. I am sure your theological training at DTS has somethibg to do with this. I much rather prefer a more progressive interpretation of scripture as I have been trying to share with you. I believe God has been very intentional and many times accommodating with men throughout history. But His intention and plan from since the foundation of the world (Eph 1) has always been the same. The way you talk and interpret scripture it seems very clear that you see some type of gear change or split in the road and I just don’t see it that way. I believe in progressive fulfillment and that has been accomplished in Christ. I also don’t believe Romans 11:25-26 is futuristic.
   I also believe more important than understanding all the details of so many theological issues we need to be doing all we do to present men complete in Christ. If that was enough for Paul then it’s enough for me. What that looks like is a much more productive conversation.

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   1. doctrine Post authorOctober 19, 2017 at 3:51 pm

      Cliff,
      Here’s the problem: When Paul wrote his gospel was a secret, the blinding of Israel was a secret, the Rapture was a secret, the Church was a secret, do you believe him? That these things were secrets is not debatable, the text is clear. The only question is whether what Paul wrote is true or false. I’ve received many comments from people who adamantly declare Paul was a false teacher. They don’t believe a word he wrote. So there we have it. If Paul was God’s man we have him revealing new theology—things God had kept hidden. And that is exactly what he claimed. He wrote he began the Church, the body of Christ. I discuss this in Paul: Chief of Sinners? The same is true for Paul’s gospel. He called it “my gospel.” He declared in Ephesians 6.19 “the secret of the gospel.” The gospel of the kingdom was not a secret. But Christ’s dying for our sins and rising from the dead—believing this for salvation was a secret. No one proclaimed this before Paul. Not one verse of Scripture will support a contrary view. I really do not care one whit for dispensationsationalism or any other theological system and I did not learn any of this at DTS. What I care about is what the Scriptures state. And my fight is against 1,900 years of bad theology. Paul wrote in his last letter that all Asia had departed from him. Do you understand what this means? It means all the churches—Colossae, Ephesus, Galatia, Psidia Antioch, Lystra, Derbe, Iconium, Laodicea, etc. abandoned Paul’s teachings. What replaced it? Paul’s letter to the Galatians describes it. He also has passages in his other letters (2 Corinthians, Colossians, etc.) which decribe what happened. If you have read the Didache you can see this. Not one word of Paul is in it. It was written about 100 A.D. and is an excellent example of early church heresy. And this poison has infected Christendom for the past 1,900 years. Christianity today is what Judaism had become in the Lord’s day: tradition has replaced the Scriptures. But if one will actually read the Scriptures, one will find they tell a wholly different story than tradition. Paul’s secrets are the key to Christian theology. They are for the Church what Israel’s covenants were to Jewish theology. And who exalts Christ more than Paul?

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4. Chad October 19, 2017 at 5:21 pm

   Hi Cliff,

   I just have a simple question and I don’t want to sound diligent in asking it…would you respond with a sentence or two stating the gospel that you trust for your salvation? I really think this will cut right to the point of interest.

   Thank you and doctrine for the mind engaging discussion.

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   1. Cliff October 20, 2017 at 1:20 am

      Hi Chad.
      The gospel that I trust for my
      salvation is faith in Jesus Christ that He is the Son of God, that He lived as a man, that He died on the cross for my sins, that He was buried and raised and ascended to heaven, that He was the last Adam putting to death the Adamic race and was the second man, a life-giving spirit, heavenly and that through this faith I am incorporated into His body. Because of this I share in His cricifixion experiencing the death of my old man in Adam, death to the law and a complete rectification of my disposition to live a self-centered, selfish life to living a self-giving, others centered life of love which reflects the character and nature of Jesus Christ and the Father. This is only possible because I have been placed in Christ by God and Christ has become for me wisdom from God, righteousness, sanctification and redemption and the life that I live I only live by faith in Him who gave Himself life for me.
      Maybe that’s more than you wanted but it is a start. I would say for sure it is a Pauline gospel at the core. But what I struggle with is to say that no other NT writers had any of this same revelation. I totally believe Paul is the man. :) But not at the expense that Peter or John had any revelation into the same matters.

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5. Matthew October 20, 2017 at 12:57 pm

   Hello all!
   As I read the comments above i think that there is possibly some over or misguided thinking. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with any post, but my comment is to offer a view that I don’t think has been mentioned. It’s plain in the scriptures that Christ said He came for the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” as well as forbidding Peter, John, ect. from going to the gentiles. So, we then must ask ourselves when did the gospel go to the gentiles and who was the messenger that brought it? Once those questions are answered this debate is complete…In Christ!! Peace and blessing to all!!

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6. courtney king October 20, 2017 at 2:40 pm

   This is a great article and as a former “baptist” for 60 years, the “baptist briders” will have trouble with this article. Keep up the good work and thank you. Peace and grace

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7. Chad October 20, 2017 at 3:55 pm

   Cliff and Matthew, I like those words and agree that under this dispensation we are saved by the gospel of His grace by faith alone, and this gospel was given directly to Paul by our savior Yahshua. Paul argued and faught against the 12 “pillars/apostles” to defend the major differences in his gospel versus the NT gospel Yahshua gave to the 12. If it wasn’t for Peter’s support, who knows what James (Yahshua’s brother, not the Apostle) would have done with Paul’s gospel.

   And I don’t want to argue, but I want to submit the idea that Paul was THE apostle (one sent out) to share a message/gospel that “was apart from the covenants of Israel”, so Paul is not a “NT writer” or a NT apostle. Paul was not instructed to share Yahshua’s “New Testament/Covenant” gospel that He offered to Israel — Yahshua already did that and commission the 12 to continue to share it. It was rejected, but Yahshua will fulfill this NT/Covenant in the future just like He fulfilled the Law Covenant.

   But until He returns to do this, we are not under a New Testament and Paul is not a NT writer/apostle. In fact in this dispensation, there is no jew or gentile (there is no Israel) so by definition there can be no covenant. We are A NEW secret CREATURE — The Body of Christ. Paul is the apostle of this secret gospel kept from the beginning so that Lucifer would not be able to intercept it.

   Blessings brothers. I’ll see you in the clouds…quickly!

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8. JaredMithrandir November 5, 2017 at 11:25 am

   I am not a Dispensation in the strictest sense, this complete separation of Church and Israel I find offensive, Paul’s point in Romans 11 and Galatians is we are all Grafted into the Tree of Israel and made Abraham’s Seed.

   But there is some distinction. New Jerusalem is made up entirely of Church Imagery, quoting Paul’s teaching of the 12 Disciples as 12 Pillars. But in Ezekiel 40-48 New Jerusalem is not all of Israel.

   You say the Bride is Israel not the Church, but don’t say where The Church is in this spiritual Family. Well Psalm 45 depicts the Messiah having both a Bride and Children. Isaiah 53 also says the Suffering Servant will have Seed. John 1 teaches Jesus came to give us the ability to become Sons of God. I have argued on my Blog that the Man Child of Revelation 12 is The Church not Jesus.

   You act like being the Body of Christ contradicts being the Bride. But Jesus taught that Husband and Wife are made one Flesh. Eve was made form a piece of Adam’s Flesh.

   The Body of Christ is even more synonymous with The Temple of God however, as in John 2 Jesus called his Body the Temple. Is in the Temple/Body that I believe the Bride and the Children are together.

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   1. doctrine Post authorNovember 5, 2017 at 12:23 pm

      JaredMithrandir,
      The olive tree of Romans 11 is not Israel but the Abrahamic covenant, God’s place of favor. See my article, The Olive Tree. The Church is the Church and Israel is Israel. The Church is never called Israel. Israel is a technical term which only refers to the offspring of Jacob. Members of the Church, the body of Christ, are called children of Abraham, because Abraham was saved by faith alone. That is different from Israel. The New Jerusalem has no Church imagery. The 12 foundations, gates, etc. is imagery of Israel. The Twelve were apostles of Israel, not apostles of the Church. They had no ministry to Gentiles. That was Paul’s domain (Romans 11.13; Galatians 2.7-9). The Church is nowhere present in Revelation. Revelation depicts the Day of the Lord. Paul explicitly taught that the Church is not present in the Day of the Lord (1 Thessalonians 1.10; 5.9; 2 Thessalonians 2.2-3; Romans 5.9). Sound theology must be based upon what the Bible says, not upon what it does not say.

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      1. Steven Hill November 30, 2017 at 11:04 am

         Abraham was justified by faith, but it was not “faith alone” James uses Abraham as an example of being justified by God in James 2:21-23 and then comes to the logical conclusion in v. 24, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

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         1. doctrine Post authorNovember 30, 2017 at 11:33 am

            Steven,
            Abraham was saved by faith alone as Paul explained in Romans 4. For James, see my article, Faith vs. Works in James.

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         2. Pat November 10, 2023 at 9:09 am

            Steven,
            I too once believed that way but by God’s grace and His leading me to Bible teachers that taught right division I came to a new understanding.
            When you read the book of James it is important that we understand just who is his audience? The book of James was written to Israel. “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings.’ James 1:1.
            James was writing to the Jews under the law. Under the law salvation always required faith + works. Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4) is salvation by faith + nothing (Ephesians 2: 8-9). Rightly dividing the Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15) is essential for the understanding the scriptures.

            Reply ↓
9. Joshua November 9, 2017 at 12:17 am

   Great article! This has really helped me out and makes so much sense.
   It’s great to see things from a different/new perspective.
   Thanks for your insights!
   Be Blessed.

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10. Joe November 9, 2017 at 10:56 am

    Doctrine, you are performing a great work. articulate, succinct.

    Reply ↓
11. Steven Hill November 30, 2017 at 10:57 am

    The church is spoken of in several different metaphorical terms. One would not say we are the flock of God with Christ as our chief Shepherd but not also the body of the Shepherd. This sounds confusing if you don’t realize that multiple metaphors can be used to illustrate various aspects of the same people. Based on your argument we could easily say, well then how could the sheep be also the body of the Shepherd? Revelation was written in code language (apocalyptic literature). The Christians of the 1st century were able to decode it because the code was terminology from the Old Testament. For instance, when Babylon is used, it is not about Babylon, it is a reference to Rome. And when Israel is mentioned, it is a reference to Christians. Most false doctrine is established when someone decides to misuse figurative literature.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 30, 2017 at 11:41 am

       Steven,
       The Church is the body of Christ. The Church is not spoken of as “sheep.” That is a designation that applies to Israel. Revelation is written in figurative language but behind all figures is a literal sense. Without such discipline any interpretation is possible. That is why there is so much confusion regarding understanding Revelation. Depart from a literal hermeneutic and you have chaos. Most of the commentaries on Revelation are worthless in terms of understanding what the book means for most of the writers have abandoned the literal sense. Tyndale, the greatest of the Reformers, wrote, “God’s literal sense is spiritual.” See my article, Hermeneutics. Babylon is Babylon, not Rome. I agree, most false doctrine comes from the misuse of figurative literature. The misuse is to not understand that behind the figures is literal reality.

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12. Anna December 30, 2017 at 2:10 am

    The wedding motif is about God reuniting with mankind via the spirit. Adam separated us and Jesus came to reconcile us again so that we could commune directly with our Father without the need of Mediators, Prophets, Priests, Teachers, etc. Matt 23:8-10. The kingdom came in the first century. ‘My kingdom does not come with your observance; it is WITHIN YOU.’ Luke 17:20-24. There is only ONE FAMILY of God and only ONE TEACHER, the Lord Jesus, who is the spirit. 2 Cor 3:17. If you have been reconciled and have his spirit then the marriage has taken place. The old has passed; the new has come.
    The old was seen, temporary,external, of the flesh, earthly.
    The new is unseen, eternal, internal, of the spirit.

    His kingdom has come. It is spiritual. Adam separated us from our Father and we were DEAD spiritually. Jesus came to give us life and give it more abundantly by destroying death (spiritual separation) and bringing light and immortality to us.

    The 144,000 Firstfruits sat as a Queen sits, ‘at the right hand of power’ (positionally) and reigned with Christ judging the 12 tribes of Israel. There are no more tribes of Israel. For one to own land in Judea one had to have written proof of ancestrial birthright and all those records were kept in the temple and burned with HER judgment, 70 AD. Israel sat as a Queen, at the right hand of power, (she mediated betweeen God and mankind) until her unfaithfulnness (harlotry) caused her expulsion and death. Jesus sat in that position until all his enemies were put under his feet. Is 66:6. Then the 144,000 firstfruits sat in that position with him judging the 12 tribes. There are no more tribes of Israel. No land was ever ‘Israel’ until the zionist state of ’48. Originally it was Canaan, then Judea, then Palestine and in 48 people claiming to be ‘Jews’ wanted it to be their homeland. There was never any ethnic ‘Jew.’ One became a ‘Jew’ by conversion and observing the laws of Moses. Many peoples became ‘Jews.’ The Persians during Queen Esther’s rule; the King Izates and his mother; the Edomites, Esau’s descendants, the Herodian Dynasty and people from all nationalities became ‘Jews.’
    “Isreal is my firstborn SON.’ Isreal has always been a people. Abel was not a ‘Jew’ nor ‘Israelite,’ and netiher was Noah, Seth or Abraham. Both Esau and Jacob were ‘goyim’ and had the same parents and ancestry. All Noah’s sons had the same parents and ancestry. God is not partial to race, gender or ancestrial birthright. We receive our inheritance by Faith, as Abraham did. The eternal covenant was the promised SEED in the Garden of Eden and ratified with Abraham and his SEED. One SEED, the Messiah. Paul addresses this issue in Gal chapters 3 and 4. The law came 400+ years after God ratified the covenant seed with Abraham. The covenant at Mt Sinai was conditional. The new covenant is not conditional but made and kept by God himself and all who have faith are Abraham’s offspring. Abraham was looking for a city not built by human hands. That city came down from heaven in the first century as a spiritual city, the kingdom of God residing in us. Lk 17:20-24

    If we had done what Jesus said in Matt 23:8-10 we would not have been deceived by religious indoctrination.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 30, 2017 at 10:03 am

       Anna,
       If you really believe this, throw away your Bible. Nothing you have written is in the Bible. Peter addressed Israel at Pentecost and James wrote to the twelve tribes (James 1.1). Beginning with Abraham, God promised Israel a land and gave the boundaries as the Nile, the Mediterranean, and the Euphrates. If the Jews do no inherit this land God is a liar and will cease being God. Jesus’ ministry was to Jews and he was recognized as the King of the Jews. God has promised that Israel, the Jews, will last forever (Jeremiah 31.35-37). The kingdom of God is a physical, political kingdom. This is what hundreds of passages in the OT declare. The text about observation and “within you” is a terrible translation and misses the point Jesus was making. What Jesus said was, “the kingdom of God does not require you to strain your eyes. It is in your midst.” That is, the King, Jesus the Christ, stood before them. See my article, The Kingdom of God.

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       1. Mark Aubart November 28, 2021 at 9:26 am

          “Thy kingdom come”, not “thy kingdom came”. May I ask what Bible you are readying/studying?

          If what you’re saying were true, there’d be no reason for born-again Christians to be here on earth in mortal bodies, the fact that we exist here in flesh & bone completely destroys everything you believe.

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 28, 2021 at 9:37 am

             Mark,
             Where did I write, “thy kingdom came?” Do you reject Jesus is King? How does believers being on earth in mortal bodies destroy everything I believe?

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13. George January 18, 2018 at 2:45 pm

    Hello Bro Don, di you know of any good rightly divided commentaries of the song of Solomon, all denominations seem to see this book as the body of Christ beingvtye bride of Christ, which is false, i think it is the jewish remnant, what is your summary of the song of solomon, i can’t wait for you to right a paper on the song of solomon, if someone is capable i am sure you are :)

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 20, 2018 at 9:42 am

       George,
       Thank you. Something to think about. Right now, I’m concentrating on my next book.

       Reply ↓
    2. Riana Weaver November 28, 2021 at 11:51 pm

       Hi George

       Have a look at this one:

       http://grace4you.com/the-song-of-solomon-a-love-story-with-a-hidden-message/

       It is definitely worth the read!

       Reply ↓
14. Majo January 24, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    Jacob loved Rachel and served seven years for her. I understand that to represent Christ having Israel in mind as his bride of choice. However, in the ways of God, Rachel was withheld and he was given the less attractive Leah; afterwards he got Rachel as well. I understand Leah to represent Christ’s gentile wife until he gets his first love Rachel or Israel. Joseph is similar; while rejected by his brethren (Israel) he is given Asnath as wife. So you can understand why the Church, His companion during His rejection is assumed to be his bride. But I can’t think that Christ has two wives as Paul says three times ‘husband of one wife’. So I’m trying to understand how an old testament type of a gentile wife becomes His body, and He has one bride, Israel

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 25, 2018 at 1:49 pm

       Majo,
       The Church is the body of Christ, not the bride.

       Reply ↓
15. Joe January 28, 2018 at 10:47 am

    Dear Doctrine,

    Who is the Woman in Rev 12? Could this woman be Israel? Could this woman be the Bride of Christ?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 28, 2018 at 1:14 pm

       Joe,
       The woman in Revelation 12 is national Israel. The Bride is believing Israel.

       Reply ↓
16. Joe March 4, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    Follow up on question above.

    Les Feldick’s program led me to Isaiah 62. From there to Rev 21. Is the City of Jerusalem the Bride of the Lamb (Christ)?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 4, 2018 at 3:23 pm

       Joe,
       Psalm 45 is the Father speaking of the Son to bride, Israel. I do not see the city as the bride. Everything in the city speaks of Israel and the city is adorned as a bride.

       Reply ↓
17. Michael Maddox March 11, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    I think this is an instance where the analogy overshadows the subject being talked about. Bride or body, it makes no difference, one day Christ is coming for his own. In the meantime bride or body, both are under sovereignty; to either husband or the head. The illustration is used to help us understand the different aspects of the relationship of the involved parties better.

    As well, the Lord could have used a chariot, horse, driver and water trough analogy to explain the relationship, how one is subordinate to another and yet how it works together in relation relation to us individually, the Church, Israel, and God through Jesus Christ connected to us via the Comforter.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2018 at 8:56 pm

       Michael,
       The use of “body” signifies an organic relationship with Christ. The Church, the body of Christ, is an organism, not an organization. Use of “chariot,” “horse,” etc. do not convey the essential nature of our relationship to Christ. Israel and the Church are two completely distinct programs with different destinies. Israel is not part of the body of Christ and the Church is not the wife/bride of Christ. Israel’s destiny is earthly, the Church’s is heavenly. Israel is under the Mosaic Law, the Church is under grace. Each has separate resurrections. One is almost all Jewish while the other is almost all Gentile. There are vast differences in these two programs and each has its own language.

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18. Greg March 14, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    Interesting article. How would you explain Paul stating that gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel? Romans chapter 11 is all about Israel not being forsaken forever, and that since they (for the most part) rejected the Messiah, God has cut their “branches” from the “good olive tree” and grafted on “wild branches” (gentiles) from the “wild olive tree”. Paul says to the gentile Christians not to be high minded for they too can be removed from the good olive tree (which is Israel). Paul foresees a time when fleshly Israel will repent and believe that Jesus is the Messiah. At this time they will be grafted back onto the “good olive tree”. In the mean time gentiles have been grafted into the tree, so the tree will continue to produce fruit. He also uses an illustration of sourdough bread making. The whole lump of dough is made sour from the original starter (leftover sourdough from previous bread making) which was mixed in. Paul tells the gentile Christians that they have been made holy by mixing with the few believing ones from fleshly Israel. Is not the gentile “church” Israel then? Do they not share the same hope as believing Israel of Paul’s time, and future repentant Israel, who are to be grafted back onto the “good olive tree”?

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 15, 2018 at 11:35 am

       Greg,
       Please see my article, The Olive Tree.

       Reply ↓
19. CSmith May 3, 2018 at 9:36 am

    Paul never used the phrase the “Bride of Christ” — the classic motif of the church.

    Rather, “we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones,” i.e., “ye are the body of Christ (sōma Christos), and members in particular” (cf. 1Co_12:27). We are not the “Bride of Christ.”

    However, we are the “Body of Christ” (cf. Rom_7:4; 1Co_10:16; Eph_4:12).

    Before addressing the “quintessential” “Bride of Christ” prooftext, it is essential to comprehend that which Paul had built and watched over so faithfully — Paul “in his time plays many parts,” a nursing mother, a loving father, and a jealous husband:

    “We were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children” (cf. 1Th 2:7).

    “Have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel” (cf. 1Co 4:15).

    “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (cf. 2Co 11:2 ).

    Paul, in 2 Corinthians 11:2, espoused the “Body of Christ” to “himself” that he “may present [us] as a chaste virgin to Christ.”

    Koine Greek scholar A. T. Robertson expounds the so-called 2 Cor 11:2 “prooftext”:

    I espoused (hērmosamēn). First aorist middle indicative of harmozō, old verb to join, to fit together (from harmos, joint). Common for betrothed, though only here in N.T. The middle voice indicates Paul’s interest in the matter. Paul treats the Corinthians as his bride. “

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20. Max Strange May 3, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    You are a royal priesthood, a holy people, a nation. Are these not Israel-ish terms applied to the Church in the book of Peter? Surely, then, Peter must be speaking to the Jews? No. N.T. authors always write to “the church” and apply O.T. language to God’s people, creating a hermeneutic that should raise your brow. The N.T. authors do not create two groups of saved people, Jew & Gentile. They do the opposite and speak about the church as a single entity, though many in part. This Solitary Unit is referred to as the “One New Man,”The Body,” “A New Nation,” “A Royal Priesthood,” “A People,” “A Field,”The Bride of Christ,” “The Chosen,” “The Temple,” “A Building,” “A Garden” etc. The N.T. authors are building a composite that draws ALL the imagery, types, and shadows from the O.T. forward and each finds its fulfillment in Christ and His people, the Ekklesia. Lastly, be cautious that the way you read your Bible isn’t more Israel-centric than what it should be…….Christo-centric. Having an overarching Israel centric way of reading the N.T. will skew the way you view the Church, the gospel, the promises, and mission. God is saving Jews even now. Praise God! However, Matthew 1-7 clearly reveals Matthews intention that Jesus is the New Israel who succeeds at every point of Israel’s failure. Jesus is the New Israel, the son who obeyed perfectly “Out of Egypt I called my Son.”

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 4, 2018 at 9:00 am

       Max,
       Peter wrote to Jews saved under the gospel of the kingdom. They were not saved by believing Paul’s gospel and were not members of the Church, the body of Christ. Peter, like the rest of the Twelve, had no ministry to Gentiles. Peter’s quote of a “royal priesthood” referred to God’s destiny for national Israel recorded by Moses (Exodus 19.6). Of all the offices, ministries, gifts, etc., Paul wrote about, the missing was “priest.” The Church has no priests—except Paul. See my article, Priests in the Church?

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       1. Eccoo Damo June 28, 2021 at 1:41 pm

          Sorry, many of the 12 had ministries outside Israel. Thomas is the one that introduced Christianity to India. The command to preach only to Israel was given only while Christ was with them.

          This pretty much destroys your logic.

          Matthew 28:19–20

          19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2021 at 3:44 pm

             Eccoo Damo,
             Show me in the Bible where Thomas went to India. Show me where he ministered to Gentiles. Pretty much destroys your logic.

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          2. Joe B June 28, 2021 at 6:32 pm

             Eusebius is said to be the historian of the early church. The only one of the 12 that I’ve been able to find in his writings that left the boarders of Israel is in fact Thomas. For what it’s worth:

             According to the 4th-century Ecclesiastical History of Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, he evangelized Parthia (modern Khorāsān). Later Christian tradition says Thomas extended his apostolate into India, where he is recognized as the founder of the Church of the Syrian Malabar Christians, or Christians of St. Thomas.

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             1. doctrine Post authorJune 29, 2021 at 7:52 am

                Joe B,
                The Biblical record is against this. We know Peter, James, John, Jude, wrote to Jews in Dispersion. It appears Peter went to Babylon but we have no record of travels by the 12 outside Palestine. The Biblical record indicates their ministry was the Jews. Paul was God’s apostle to Gentiles. The trustworthiness of Eusebius is questionable. Stories of the 12 traveling to other countries are based on legends and are suspect. We know that with regard to Church doctrine, massive error existed in the time of Eusebius. All Asia Minor had abandoned Paul’s doctrines of grace in Paul’s day. Church doctrine had been rejected in favor of an amalgamation of Judaism (legalism) among churches (the Galatian heresy). The fact that Christ’s divinity was not settled in Christendom until the 4th century provides additional insight into how much ignorance of Scripture, error, and confusion existed. Trust what the Scriptures reveal rather than questionable sources. Today, Eusebius would be viewed as a heretic, not a Bible-believing Christian.

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                1. Joe B June 29, 2021 at 1:51 pm

                   Tradition.

                   I will guess 50% of Catholicism is based on tradition. Mary was a perpetual virgin they say despite what the bible says about siblings. When the immaculate conception is mentioned I’d venture to say the vast majority of ‘Christians’ would say it referenced Christ’s conception. Nope! Mary’s. I do believe many Catholics believe in the resurrection of Christ.

                   Reply ↓
21. Bev July 14, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    Left Bedhind or Led Astray? All of these weird doctrines are built on the premise of Darby’s dispensationalism and a Pre Trib Rapture. Unfortunately, many have relied upon those doctrines of demons and have lazily accepted what others have preferred without investigating the foundation for those doctrines (Pre Trib rapture and dispensationalism). What a shame. It will be the reason for such a great falling away.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 15, 2018 at 7:26 am

       Bev,
       The doctrine the Church is the body of Christ is a Biblical doctrine (Colossians 1.18, 24). The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a Biblical doctrine (Romans 5.9; 1 Thessalonians 1.10, 5.9). Believe the Scriptures and this will become evident. The apostasy in the Church today is the result of rejecting Pauline doctrines.

       Reply ↓
       1. Brent Roberts September 11, 2018 at 6:21 am

          No one seems to point to the fact that you have to be born again to enter the Kingdom.So as such become part of the one body. So there is no Israelite or gentile just Christians. I did a quick check and the word Israel does not appear in the New Covenant. The people at the wedding supper are guests and the new Jerusalem appears AS a bride. I can see flaws in all the three positions people have The Church as the bride, Israel as the bride and the new Jerusalem as the bride. Hopefully some one will actually be able to understand this mystery God has set before us. One thing I do see is if we are not ready we could end up facing the tribulation as the church of Thyatira was warned . That explains the gnashing of teeth and the outer darkness in the parables. Also why do some say as Christ is the head and the Church is the body, the head can’t marry the body. Don’t they realize body is a collective term for a group?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 11, 2018 at 9:03 am

             Brent,
             God made the New Covenant with Israel (Jeremiah 31.31-34). The Church is not present in the book of Revelation. The “churches” of Revelation 2-3 are assemblies of Jewish believers, not the Church, the body of Christ. God has removed the Church from the Tribulation (Romans 5.9; 1 Thessalonians 1.10, 5.9).

             Reply ↓
22. Vanessa July 20, 2018 at 11:58 am

    Hello All,
    Wow Don I have just been looking at the apostasty again in Timothy and you just confirmed something for me…….As you said above…..The apostasy in the Church today is the result of rejecting Pauline doctrines.
    Absolutely spot on.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 20, 2018 at 12:10 pm

       Vanessa,
       Yes, rejection of Pauline truths has been the source almost all heresy and apostasy. It explains the vast confusion in Christendom.

       Reply ↓
23. Craig August 19, 2018 at 11:51 am

    Don, I agree with you but could you explain Exodus 4.22, “Israel is my son, even my firstborn”
    How can Israel be a bride or wife and a son?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 22, 2018 at 8:27 am

       Craig,
       These are pictures or illustrations of God’s various relationships with the nation.

       Reply ↓
24. Michael September 2, 2018 at 6:06 pm

    An adorned New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to a new earth fits perfectly as Christ’s virgin bride in a new covenant with Israel. I cringe when I hear a man say he is (we are) going to be the bride of Christ, God in the form of man. Something unnatural about the declarative statement.

    Reply ↓
25. Bob Goyer September 3, 2018 at 6:58 am

    Don,
    How do you explain 2 Corinthians 11:2 2 – I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. Thanks.
    Bob

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 10, 2018 at 9:20 am

       Bob,
       Paul is using an illustration for purity for the Church, the body of Christ. He’s not teaching the Church is the “bride of Christ.”

       Reply ↓
26. Charles Brockington September 12, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    do you have a commentary on Proverbs?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 13, 2018 at 8:52 am

       Charles,
       No.

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27. Mike September 14, 2018 at 7:28 am

    I beleive this teaching to be true. BUT why does the gospel of mark say this
    Mark 2:19 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
    If Christ Body is masculine and Israel is referred to as the children of the bride chamber in the above verse How can either be the bride. He is clearly referencing The entire nation israel in this passage and calls them Children not a wife?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 24, 2018 at 8:53 am

       Mike,
       Jesus was simply making the point that as long as the King was present there should be celebration.

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28. DOM October 16, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    I think you are slightly off with this, you should REALLY read the Apocrypha and other related scriptures because they ARE canon. The romans didnt include them as scripture because the Romans didnt know what they were talking about. Read those books, they add to the story and also paint pictures of the End Times.

    The Bride is indeed the Church, they will be the ones who will have to prove their faith through trial and tribulation, this is why it refers to the patience of the saints. They will have to seal their testimony with their blood, and will most likely be persecuted by the beast, and die just as Christ Died.

    There is also the “Elect”. The Elect, are the 144,000 people of Hebrew Descent who will be gathered from the four corners of the earth by the Seraphim of the Lord, and they will be taken to the Land of Goshen In Egypt, and will be protected by The Most High. The Elect or Israel(descendants), do not suffer at all. They Prove their faith, by the following of the commandments and by Faith in the messiah, Yahoshua. Like the Israelites who were protected from the Plagues which struck Egypt, so too will the Elect be protected from the Plagues which shall strike the Whole earth.

    You see, many Christians, including PAUL, taught you do not need to keep the Law, or even Worship on a Saturday; He taught it doesnt matter what day one worships the Lord. This is not true, but this is the belief that most of the Modern Church teaches. All men, Christian and Hebrew know to keep the 10 Commandments; HOWEVER, not ALL Christians know that they must also keep the festivals, and Holidays, and Must worship on Saturday, and must observe the Dietary Guidelines.

    Therefore, Whereas the “Elect”- The Hebrew Descendants Completely follow the law of Moses and Have Faith in yahoshua the messiah they are spared all suffering. The “Bride”- gentiles, However do not Keep ALL of the laws, and so they much prove their faith through trial, testimony AND tribulation. In effect, they must seal their testimony with their Blood, as Yahoshua Did.

    The modern teaching is that the Old Covenant was done away with, When the New Covenant was instituted; However, this is not True. The Old Covenant is EVERLASTING as stated in scripture, it is still in effect, and the people of Hebrew Descent know this, and they will follow it, as well as The New Covenant which is having faith in the Messiah Yahoshua, and thus are Completely spared The Wrath Of God. The gentiles, however will inly adhere to the New Covenant, as taught my Paul, and will no longer follow the Law of Moses, and thus they will be present on the Earth, During the time of Gods Wrath; during which time, The FINAL Anti-Christ will reign, and persecute them

    this is not Common Knowledge however, nor is the doctrine concerning The “Bride” and The “Elect”. It is very possible that a Gentile who follows Completely The Law Of Moses and Has faith may be among the Elect, however it is unlikely. Furthermore, it should be Noted that the people in the Modern State of Israel, are Gentiles, and Do not even Beleive in Yahoshua and will not be AMONG the “Elect:- although, some of them may be found amongst the Bride

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 17, 2018 at 9:28 am

       DOM,
       The Church, the body of Christ, is a whole new program of God, just as Israel was a whole new program God began with Abraham. The Church is not under the Mosaic Law. All Church doctrine comes from Paul’s letters and Paul was the founder of the Church, even as Abraham was the founder of Israel. Paul is to the Church what Abraham, Moses, and the prophets were to Israel. The Old Covenant remains in effect for Israel but is replaced in the sense of Israel being able to fulfill it by the New Covenant. The NC has the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the forgiveness of sins. The Church participates in the NC in these areas.

       Reply ↓
29. Mike DeWitt March 6, 2019 at 7:12 pm

    Don, you state that the letters of Rev 2-3 were written for Jews, Why would Jesus have John write letters to “Churches” That rejected him as the Messiah? If These Jews didn’t Reject Christ, your reasoning would assume they were still under the Kingdom Covenant. That being the case, you are suggesting That when John Wrote those Letters to the Churches it happened Before the Council at Jerusalem in Acts15… How do you Reconcile that any other way? Also, How Do you Reconclie This Verse? Revelation 3:10
    10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 6, 2019 at 7:45 pm

       Mike,
       Those whom Jesus addressed in Revelation 2-3 were Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom and were anticipating the Day of the Lord (Revelation 1.10). Earlier, when Jesus addressed this subject, He told those who would go through the Tribulation that if they endured to the end they would be saved (Matthew 24.13). As is explained in Revelation, this is not to take the mark of the Beast which is likely what Revelation 3.10 is about. Jesus repeated His warnings in greater detail in Revelation 2-3. Paul wrote the same thing to the Jews in Hebrews 3.6, 14, 6.4-8, 11. John likely wrote Revelation in the early to mid 50s, after the Council of Jerusalem. That poses no problem because those being addressed were under the gospel of the kingdom program, not the Church.

       Reply ↓
30. Priscilla March 23, 2019 at 7:17 pm

    Thank you for this awesome clarification of the the Church and the Bride of Christ.
    I teach as Woman’s Bible Class, and our lesson is on the Body of Christ, however the book we are using insist that the Church is the Bride, from reading scripture Paul always calls the Church The Body, The Old Testament call Israel the wife, even though God divorced Isarel He took her back..
    I know after I teach this lesson, I wont be teaching again…

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 23, 2019 at 8:44 pm

       Priscilla,
       Thank you. There’s a lot of confusion about this subject and I am glad the article was helpful. Yes, when Israel repents and believes Jesus is the Messiah, Israel will again be God’s bride/wife.

       Reply ↓
31. Ellen Stewart May 9, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    I think the main point of confusion about the church is that it should be plural as it is throughout the Bible. it is not a universal mystical body as most teach it today – primarily because of the Scofield Bible and his notes and misinformation about the church.
    If you do a word search on ‘church’ i.e Greek word ekklesia definition = a local called-out assembly. The key word here is local. Everywhere the word church is mentioned, with a couple of exceptions, it is in a particular location or a particular person’s house. We read: the Church at Jerusalem, the Church at Galatia, the Church at Thessalonica, etc.
    Acts 8:3
    As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
    (Because the churches were in “houses”)
    Romans 16:5
    Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
    1 Corinthians 16:19
    The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
    Colossians 4:15
    Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
    1 Timothy 3:15
    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
    (In this verse ‘church’ is used in an institutional sense – this happens a couple of times, but understood based on definition…like saying college is a place of learning; we all know college is not universal or invisible but is a particular college in a particular location).
    So many have the idea of Christ as this mystical head and all the saved as the arms, legs, hands and feet scattered all over the world. If this is the case, why does Paul speak of the different members being eyes and ears? If I’m not mistaken the eyes and ears are in the head. See 1 Cor. 12:13-24. Vs 25 reads; 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
    No schism (or division)…the body being in ONE place and each member caring for the other. Is Christ not God? Is God omnipresent (every where present)? Christ IS the corporate Head of each individual church but the true churches are a complete body, not a headless entity. The Pastor/Shepherd is the earthly head/leader that cares for the sheep in each local assembly, but directly answerable to God.
    There are many, many man-made religious organizations; but Christ established His true church, (“the pillar and ground of truth”) the first one being at Jerusalem and from that Church each procreates. God did not intend for men to reinvent what He has established; but those He established to reproduce.
    The true churches (those who hold fast to the doctrines once delivered by Christ and the apostles) are still alive and procreating…one true church producing another. The “gates of hell” (death) not prevailing against them. So, Christ’s true churches must still be on earth until He comes (along with many other believers not in one of these churches…but still saved). This clarifies the true churches position of being a virgin i.e. NOT defiled by false doctrine*, not idol worshippers. The most popular idol being ‘man’s free will’; thereby refusing God’s attribute of sovereignty.
    *2 Thess.2:15; 15 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”

    Philemon 1:2
    And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

    Remember “a little leaven leaveneth a whole lump” Galations 5:9. The man-made institutions (false churches) that started out with a little leaven (sin = false doctrine) have become permeated with the grossest of sins today…that’s the nature of leaven. The devil’s moto ” If you can’t whip ’em, join ’em” and that he’s done.
    The search for one of the Lord’s true churches is tedious. Start by eliminating all that were founded by a man. It will drastically narrow the search.
    The Lord’s true church is the Bride of Christ. Those save but not in a true church are the wedding guest. Israel is God’s wife pictured throughout the O.T. The Father and Son don’t share one wife…that’s even disgusting in our corrupt world today.

    2 Timothy 2:15; “15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 14, 2019 at 11:53 am

       Ellen,
       See Ephesians 1.21-22, 5.23; Colossians 1.23; 1 Corinthians 12.13. Paul revealed the Church, the body of Christ, was a new creation. No one knew this before Paul. The truth that God would baptize Jew and Gentile and that they would be equal in a new organism was completely unknown. You won’t find it in the Old Testament or gospels or in any writings other than Paul. That’s the point: the Church was a secret, one of the many revelations the risen Christ gave to Paul—and no one else. This is why Paul is the founder of the Church, its first member, and why all Church doctrine is found only in the letters of Paul. The reason why schisms exist is because most of Christendom does not recognize this truth. Paul wrote that believers are to disassociate with any who did not follow what he taught. That’s the problem.

       Reply ↓
32. john June 4, 2019 at 10:38 pm

    From my research, good grace believers and teachers such as Pastor C. R. Stam, Pastor J. C. O’Hair, Pastor Paul Sadler, Pastor Ricky Kurth differ on their view as to whether the terminology “Bride of Christ” refers exclusively to Israel or to both the Kingdom Church and members of the Body of Christ. Pastor Paul is sure the bride refers to Israel only – Pastor Stam believes it refers to both. I would prefer to think Bride refers only to Israel because it is consistent with keeping the programs ‘distinct’. But there is possibility for Bride to be ‘cross dispensational’ even as Abraham is the father of us all and the blood of Christ is for all. So it is not easy to say dogmatically on this topic, for me, at least. I’ll need to continue my study.

    Reply ↓
33. john June 5, 2019 at 10:34 am

    Don. Paul says the new Jerusalem is Mother of us all. How does that work? Is the New Jerusalem in existence now in Heaven? Then it comes to earth after the 1000 year reign? Does the old earth get burned up and replaced with New Earth? If yes, what happens to the people from the 1000 year reign on the earth when it gets burned up? Do they just get transferred to the New Earth? If the New Jerusalem is for the Body of Christ and also Kingdom saints, do the Kingdom saints remain on earth in the New Jerusalem City forever while the Body of Christ remains in Heaven forever. I know there isn’t much in Scripture to confirm how the Body of Christ is connected to the New Jerusalem but would you agree that we have a place in the New Jerusalem? If my brother gets saved after the rapture and believes in the resumed Kingdom Gospel and becomes part of the Kingdom on earth for 1000 years, will I be able to travel in my resurrection from heavenly places to visit him on the earth in eternity?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJune 6, 2019 at 12:21 pm

       John,
       Yes, the NJ is in heaven—John saw it (cf. Hebrews 12.22). It is not clear what Paul meant for he did not provide details other than it is free and we are free. It comes to earth after the Millennium, after God creates a new heavens and new earth. I can’t prove it but I think the body of Christ will have a part in the NJ. We know that wherever heaven is, that those who inhabit it can travel to earth almost instantaneously. I think it is difficult to comprehend what the limits might be on a resurrection body.

       Reply ↓
34. Brian Gomm December 21, 2019 at 10:46 am

    Christ is the second Adam. Eve was in the body of Adam before she became the bride of Adam, so as I see it we who are the body of Christ will become the bride of Christ.
    2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
    When God (Jehovah) takes back his wife (Israel) she will not be a virgin for she had already been a wife!
    The church which is the body of Christ is the espoused virgin.
    Also, there is so much typology in the OT surrounding marriages. The most common is that of the circumcised Hebrew marrying a Gentile. Isaac, Joseph, Boaz are names that come to mind.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 21, 2019 at 12:52 pm

       Brian,
       The problem with this analysis is Paul did not say the Church was the bride of Christ. He said the Church is the body of Christ. Whenever “bride” is mentioned in Scripture, it relates to Israel, not the Church. I do not understand why so many people wish to make the Church the bride of Christ when the Scriptures say we are the body of Christ, not the bride. OT examples of Jews marrying Gentiles are not valid to make such a case since the Church, the body of Christ, was a secret. The OT gave no hint of the Church.

       Reply ↓
35. James January 14, 2020 at 8:44 am

    Wow. I came to all the same conclusions you have posted on this website and in the comments section independently. It’s often difficult to point out these truths to those who are caught in a web of “church traditions” and poor theology.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 14, 2020 at 10:29 am

       James,
       Great! May the Lord continue to enlighten us both!

       Reply ↓
36. Vito January 14, 2020 at 3:56 pm

    Hi Don Just before i was led to your site i was at a bible study led by the pastor . After a thousand verses he drew a conclusion that God is done with Israel therefore the church is the new israel and whatever God has said to Isreal He is now saying to the church. I believe that is why people think the church is the bride. They do not see Paul as the beginning of the church Body of Christ. I know the Holy Spirit led me to your site to correct that teaching Thanks for your labour in Christ.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 14, 2020 at 4:24 pm

       Vito,
       It’s sad people can be so deceived but it is easy unless one recognizes that Paul’s apostleship was unique, that he was not an appendage to the Twelve but Christ’s chosen apostle to the Gentiles to reveal a whole new program, the Church, the body of Christ, in light of Israel’s rejection of their Messiah. If God is done with Israel, God is a liar. If the pastor were honest, he would have begun his message saying, “I believe God lies.”

       Reply ↓
37. Sylvia February 10, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    Are NT Christians the Bride; the Body or Priests and Kings?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 10, 2020 at 6:56 pm

       Sylvia,
       All who believe Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) are members of the Church, the body of Christ. Believing Israel is the bride and priests and kings (Exodus 19.6; 1 Peter 2.9-10).

       Reply ↓
38. Kaitmo February 20, 2020 at 5:52 pm

    Don, I’m so thankful to the Lord for having someone like you to help as I seek to rightly divide Truth.

    Jesus states …

    Mat 25:31  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    Are the sheep here refering to both Jews and Gentiles, whose good works are reveald in this next verse as being done unto Christ’s brethren (the Jews) during the Tribulation period?

    Mat 25:35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    If this is the case?
    Then is this the group that forms the “Other sheep of another fold” that Jesus spoke of?

    Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Also were Gentiles ever refered to as sheep?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2020 at 7:18 pm

       Kaitmo,
       Israel is always referred to as sheep. Never Gentiles. In Matthew 25.31-32 Jesus said He would separate people from all nations (those who would enter His kingdom and those who would not) like a shepherd separates sheep and goats. In Matthew 25.34-36 passage the “other sheep” are those of John 10, Jews who will believe in Him and remain faithful to Him during the Tribulation. To be saved in the Tribulation requires enduring to the end (Matthew 24.13). This is what Revelation 2-3 is about, i.e., overcoming.

       Reply ↓
    2. Kaitmo August 14, 2020 at 4:56 pm

       Thanks Don for that, it was my thinking also. And the ones who did the good deeds to the “least of Jesus’ Brethren”, Jews also?

       Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

       Reply ↓
       1. doctrine Post authorAugust 14, 2020 at 7:12 pm

          Kaitmo,
          This statement was in the context of the Tribulation—those who help Jews (probably the 144,000) during that time.

          Reply ↓
39. Tom April 10, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    Don, Thank you!!
    I’ve been looking for clarification between The Body if Christ and the Bride of Christ—- you have made it so clear!
    Praise the Lord — that I just recently was revealed the truth about rightly dividing Gods Word. It clears us so much confusion!!
    I was raised in a home with parents that truly love Jesus, and believe in His grace alone for salvation, But, it makes so much sense to divide the Bible like a timeline: Gen.-John- for Israel; Romans-Phil.- GRACE for the gentiles (thank you, Lord!); and finally, back to Israel with Peter – Revelation.
    3 parts:Time Past, BUT NOW, Fulness of Time!
    The Bible: It’s all for us, but it’s not all directly to us!! I got it! My eyes are opened!! so exciting, Hallelujah!!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorApril 10, 2020 at 7:51 pm

       Tom,
       Hallelujah to you too! Christ is risen!

       Reply ↓
40. Brian Kelley April 10, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    Don, since you proclaimed the wonderful eternal truth of Christ’s resurrection as easter/resurrection day is upon us, I have a sort of political/civil disobedience question. I’m not trying to be divisive, but given the enforced coronavirus social distancing measures, many churches are discouraged or forbidden to be open. I do adhere to Romans 13, but I also recall in the early part of Acts where Peter declares that we chose to obey God rather than men. I know this is a very thorny, complex issue, but as I watch ‘Tucker Carlson Tonight’ state his concerns over this slippery political/economic slope, I ‘m wondering if America is rapidly moving down a very dark road. Your thoughts?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorApril 11, 2020 at 8:23 am

       Brian,
       We must be constantly vigilant about our freedoms. There are always people who want to remove liberty from the people and concentrate power among the few. We are seeing this as never before by politicians and the media to suppress free speech, subvert truth with propaganda and lies, remove the right to keep and bear arms, and attacks on religious liberty. Such people are under the power of Satan and in the kingdom of darkness. A society of Christians is a good society. Believers secure righteousness in a nation. As believers, we are to obey government authority but the authorities are subject to the Constitution. Laws passed that violate the Constitution are not legal. Hopefully, the peak of the virus has come and things will begin to return to normal. God bless you. All this reminds us that our hope is not in this world but in Christ. We are in Him and He has risen!

       Reply ↓
41. Steve Kilborn May 11, 2020 at 1:10 pm

    great teaching Don thanks–no one gets this right! they always confuse bride and body. how can the church be both! though the prophets looked for clues to this church age, there were none to be found. God bless you brother…

    Reply ↓
42. jacqueline June 15, 2020 at 3:42 pm

    Hello Don
    How I feel swayed by every doctrine! What would you say of Watchman Nee’s analysis (it does seem a possibility, too):-
    Today the church is the Body of Christ, but in the future the church will be the bride of Christ. Today the church is the Body of Christ for the purpose of manifesting the life of Christ. One day, when the church is mature in life, God will bring the church to Christ; in that day she will become the bride of Christ. Some people think that the church is the bride of Christ today, but this is wrong. There is no such thing. Since the Lord Jesus is not yet the Bridegroom, how could the church already be His bride? God will not bring the church to Christ as His bride until the work of the church as the Body of Christ has been accomplished. (Nee)

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJune 16, 2020 at 9:04 am

       Jacqueline,
       It’s been many years since I read Nee and I’ve forgotten much of what he wrote. But from your quotation, it is clear Nee did not understand Paul’s unique apostleship or the Church as the body of Christ. Paul wrote the body of Christ will one day become complete and then be removed (the Rapture) and God will then complete His plan with Israel and the nations. But no Scripture states the body will become the bride. The bride of Christ is Israel and concerns God’s prophetic plan to Israel. I cannot remember if Nee addressed Israel and God’s role to them or if Nee saw the distinction between Israel and the Church. Christ has different roles to each and we must not mix or confuse them.

       Reply ↓
       1. jacqueline June 25, 2020 at 4:20 pm

          Hello

          Similarly, I read Nee years ago but do go back to him now and again on issues. He says, ‘The church as the Body of Christ is absolutely a matter of life. The church as the Body of Christ is not a doctrine; it is of life. A man cannot become a part of the Body of Christ just by understanding it. He becomes a part of the Body of Christ through regeneration’ (booklet The Body of Christ)

          Also, he says this which seems very plausible and exciting (long quote for completeness):

          ‘Revelation 21:9-10 also tells us that the angel said to John, “Come here; I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” John was carried away in spirit onto a great and high mountain where he saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven. This tells us that the bride of Christ is a city—the New Jerusalem. Verses 12 to 20 go on to tell us the dimensions of the holy city itself and of its wall. The New Jerusalem is a cube; its length, its breadth, and its height are equal, each side being twelve thousand stadia, which equals about twenty-three hundred kilometers; it looks like a great and high mountain. This city is built upon twelve foundations, and on them are the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, representing all the New Testament saints. This city also has twelve gates, on which are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, representing all the Old Testament saints. Hence, the New Jerusalem is the aggregate of all the saints in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. This is the ultimate manifestation of the church. What a mystery!’ (Nee, Five Great Mysteries in the Bible}

          Just looking for the truth…I have your book on Paul now and look forward to reading it!

          Thanks.

          Reply ↓
43. annie August 13, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    Hi Don
    I think you are as patient as Job in that you never seem to tire of answering questions and objections.

    I completely agree that nearly 2000 years of “Christianity” seems to have got most of us no closer to the truth than ever.

    Thank you so much for your articles and for repeating the same thing over and over, for those of us who are slow learners. The Q & A really help me to get around all angles of the topic. Many web sites will not answer questions but no so with you.
    Great will be your reward good and faithful servant.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 13, 2020 at 7:58 pm

       Annie,
       Thank you for your gracious words. Just doing my job.

       Reply ↓
       1. Elisabeth Holland September 13, 2020 at 1:50 am

          My goodness what a labyrinth of controversy there is over the identity of the church and Israel revealed in this article and the comments on this web site.
          The definition of “church” = ekklesia, called out ones, gathered ones, assembly.
          From my reading of the Bible, God has been gathering his people since creation, calling people to worship him in spirit and truth.
          Hebrews 11 outlines the heroes of the faith starting with Abel, then Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Israel in the Exodus, Rahab,Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, the prophets and so many more – the great crowd of witnesses who lived by faith, the faith that looked to God in Christ, although all these knew not Jesus, they knew and trusted in God’s promises. All lived under the curse of the law and of death, but Jesus died and rose again, the first fruits pointing to the great resurrection day for all his saints, all his gathered ones, the called out ones, the ecclesia, throughout the ages.
          Israel was an ethnic group called out to show God’s glory in the world and to bring Jesus, the fulfillment of all things who would bring in salvation for the world. Many in Israel believed God before Jesus came and it is counted to them as righteousness as per Hebrews 11.
          Christ is the true king, the true prophet, the true priest, the true Israel. Whether OT or NT we are all, who believe and trust his promises, one in Christ. We arehis body, his bride, both pictures that help us understand how closely God loves his people. We are his ekklesia throughout the ages, the ones he has gathered to assemble before him until that great day when Christ returns and the New Creation is ushered in, the great day of resurrection.
          John 10 describes Jesus as the door through which we enter, he is the good shepherd who leads and gathers all his ekklesia in both the OT and NT.
          Christ is preeminent see Colossians 1 : 15 – 23.
          Elisabeth Scott Holland
          .

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 13, 2020 at 1:02 pm

             Elisabeth,
             What you are missing is that the Church, the body of Christ, is a technical term used only by Paul. The definition of the Church is those who believe Paul’s gospel (Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4), in which Jew and Gentile are equal in Christ, indweldt by the Holy Spirit. This “church” did not exist before Paul. God has always had those who believed in Him and these fit the general sense of “ekklesia,” which simply means a group of people. But the ascended Lord revealed to Paul an entirely new entity, which Paul wrote was a secret, which was the Church, the body of Christ. Unless one understands this distinction, theology gets muddled. And it has. That is why we have thousands of denominations. This fact confirms that most people (most ministers) do not not understand Paul and very little of Church theology.

             Reply ↓
44. Craig September 17, 2020 at 9:02 am

    Don, on Feldicks website he says that the Church is the bride of Christ and he uses 2 Cor 11:2. Can you help with this?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 17, 2020 at 11:14 am

       Craig,
       I just disagree. I address this passage in the article.

       Reply ↓
45. bruce kuda October 1, 2020 at 11:06 pm

    Thank you for this study– I was beginning to think I was the only one that didn’t think the Church was the bride.

    Reply ↓
46. phillip October 12, 2020 at 9:39 pm

    Revelation 21:9-14 (NKJV)…..
    Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    12 Gates. 12 Angels. 12 Foundations. 12 Apostles.

    The 12 apostles were given the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 10:5-7 (NKJV)), not Paul’s gospel of grace (faith, thru grace believing the death, burial, and resurrection). Paul was not one of the 12. The 12 apostles will be given 12 thrones to judge the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel (Matthew 19:28 (NKJV)). Paul is not, and will not be, one of them.

    Twelve. Twelve. Twelve. And twelve. Each and every time it points to the nation of Israel. And, yet, our Amillennial brothers, and others, insist this points to the Church.

    “Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.”

    Which gate do the Gentiles take?

    Reply ↓
47. annie December 27, 2020 at 4:01 am

    Hi again Don,
    Could you pls explain what is meant by the “lost sheep of the House of Israel”.
    How could Jesus go to the LSHI given that the northern tribes (the HoI) were scattered?
    Confused
    Annette

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 27, 2020 at 9:10 am

       Annie,
       The term “Israel” here was inclusive for all Jews. Jews from all the tribes were represented in the land when Jesus ministered. Peter addressed “all Israel” in Jerusalem at Pentecost (Acts 2.36).

       Reply ↓
48. Arnita Coles January 8, 2021 at 10:30 am

    Don,
    I enjoyed this article. The greatest hindrance to believers in understanding scripture, is that they do not know the difference between what God was doing with Israel under law according to prophecy, and what he is doing today in the dispensation of grace according to Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This understanding clears up a lot of confusion.

    Reply ↓
49. Mellany February 2, 2021 at 3:34 pm

    Romans chapter 11
    Doxology
    33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and[a] knowledge of God!
    How unsearchable his judgments,
    and his paths beyond tracing out!
    34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
    Or who has been his counselor?”[b]
    35 “Who has ever given to God,
    that God should repay them?”[c]
    36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
    To him be the glory forever! Amen.
    and
    Jude
    21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
    and
    24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

    25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
    and we are to be doing this
    22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

    23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
    and
    Blessings in Christ, dear ones:)

    Maranatha!

    In Christ
    Mellany

    Reply ↓
50. Blue March 8, 2021 at 7:09 am

    Romans 11:11-25
    I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
    Paul was directly chosen by Jesus, so he is one of the 12, as matthias was never seen of heard from in scripture. Paul says we…the gentiles..are grafted in to Israels root, which means if Israel is the bride…so are we.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 8, 2021 at 3:33 pm

       Blue,
       God kept Paul separated from the 12. He did not fit the needed qualifications. Matthias did. Read Acts 1. Read my article, The Olive Tree. Gentiles are grafted into to Olive Tree, the place of God’s favor. But they remain separate from Israel. God has one bride, not two. He is no polygamist. Israel is that bride.

       Reply ↓
51. Johnny Kasselman March 30, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    Dear sir ,,please help me understand
    In heaven after the Rapture ,there will be a ,,WEDDING ,,,
    my question : WHO MARRIES WHO at the wedding ? Thankyou kindly ! I have read the wonderful article ,,and all the comments ,, somehow I missed the answer …

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 30, 2021 at 3:00 pm

       Johnny,
       Christ is the bridegroom and Israel is the bride.

       Reply ↓
       1. Johnny Kasselman March 31, 2021 at 1:05 am

          Israel would be the JEWS that were Raptured with the church?

          OR Israel on earth that made it through the Tribulation ( in their natural bodies ( who are still prone to sin in the millennium )

          How did Israel get to ,,heaven,, for the wedding …(Rapture happens before ISRAEL is saved at the end of Trib)

          Very grateful for your reply !

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 31, 2021 at 2:01 pm

             Johnny,
             Israel remains Israel. When a Jew believes Paul’s gospel, he becomes “Church,” just as when a Gentile believes Paul’s gospel he becomes “Church.” See 1 Corinthians 10.32. The Tribulation ends after 7 years but before the earth is ready to be inhabited God must restore it to kingdom conditions. See Daniel 12.11-13. 75 days pass after the 1260 days (the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation). During that period I suspect God will restore the earth and the marriage will take place. Jews in heaven will receive resurrection bodies and go to live on earth in the kingdom.

             Reply ↓
52. Johnny Kasselman March 31, 2021 at 12:18 pm

    Dear doctrine
    Thankyou for your reply ISRAEL IS THE BRIDE & CHRIST IS THE BRIDEGROOM

    Trying to understand how Israel gets to heaven to marry Christ ,,asthe wedding is in heaven ..

    Thankyou for helping a novice !

    Reply ↓
53. Jonny Kasselman April 1, 2021 at 1:32 am

    Dear Doctrine
    Sorry if my question offended you somehow !
    I have been thinking !
    The 144000 are ISRAEL …and they (i think ) are in heaven,,,before Jesus comes down with ten thousands of His saints …at the second coming …
    Would the 144000 be the Israel bride ?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorApril 1, 2021 at 8:43 am

       Johnny,
       The 144,000 are Jews whom God will identify and seal (protect) during the Tribulation. They will spread the gospel of the kingdom.

       Reply ↓
54. Brenda Pope April 6, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    I think I read in one of the comment sections that you taught SS class if this is correct do you tape your teachings? I would love to hear your lessons. I would be willing to purchase them. Your sister in Christ, Brenda

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorApril 9, 2021 at 9:24 am

       Brenda,
       I teach but have not made recordings. Maybe something to consider. Thanks for your encouragement.

       Reply ↓
55. Louise April 23, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    Hi Cliff,
    I copied and pasted your teaching in Powerpoint to download it as a video on my channel where I share God’s Word.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvzaRJdyvZI&ab_channel=OSASISTRUERomans10%3A9.10istheGospel

    I was going to do a teaching on that subject when I fell on yours! :)

    Reply ↓
56. PAUL LUTTON July 18, 2021 at 6:23 pm

    Having read through most of the comments I can see there is much confusion as to what exactly the “church which is His body” actually is and who the members are.

    I would like to thank the “author for his helpful comments and add a few of my own.

    It stands to reason that if the “church which is His body” was not known until Paul’s prison epistles then the “church of God” which was in existence during the Acts period cannot be one and the same.

    By definition the “church which is His body” that Paul writes about is a company made up of Jewish and Gentile believers in absolutely equality according to Ephesians 3. This was not the case during the Acts period. For the first 10 years approx no Gentiles were invited to come to Christ and even after the conversion of Cornelius the life giving message was to the Jew first, a pattern Paul observed throughout the whole of the Acts period. As Paul says in Romans 1 the gospel was “to the Jew first” and as he confirms in Acts 13.46 “it was necessary” that the Jew should hear it first.

    I agree with the “author” that the truth concerning the church which is His body was a revelation made exclusively to Paul and he had the responsibility to write it down for our learning. However to believe this means that we need to change our thinking regarding some other issues.

    1. Grafting into the Olive tree as an unnatural branch and being an equal member of the body of Christ are completely different things. Though Paul writes of both one came into existence during the Acts period, the other was completely unknown during the Acts period and not revealed until after it.

    2. We need to learn to rightly divide the Word of truth and not read into Paul’s early epistles truth he did not have revealed until he wrote his later epistles. For example in Romans 12.2 he writes this “Ye being many are one body in Christ”. Romans was written at the very close of the Acts period before the “body of Christ” truth had been revealed so Paul is not referring to that. What he is simply stating is that the believers in Rome were a company of believers belonging to Christ. To read this verse as though he had written “Ye being many are the body of Christ” can do nothing more than lead into grievous error.

    3. It is obvious from 2 Timothy not everyone accepted the truth of Paul’s testimony regarding the “mystery” and turned away from him and we can expect no less today….there are many believers who reject Paul’s testimony regarding the “mystery”.

    4. There is clear proof in our N.T. that there are many callings, as we have seen there is “the church of God”,…. there are those referred to as the “friends of the bridegroom”,…. others are simply called “guests” ….and there are those called “the body of Christ”…it is our responsibility to find out to which of these callings we belong. Each has its own peculiar sphere of blessing but that is a subject for a later discussion.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 20, 2021 at 4:10 pm

       Paul,
       Paul wrote Romans, Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians during the Acts period. The “body” Paul wrote about in Romans 12.4-5; 1 Corinthians 10.17, 12.12-13, 20 is the same “body” he wrote about in the prison epistles: the Church, the body of Christ. To say otherwise is not “right division” but “wrong division.” The fact that Paul went to Jews first during the Acts period and then turned to Gentiles is not evidence the Church did not begin before the prison epistles. Paul’s commission included Jews (Acts 9.15). That would be “wrong division.” We do have a progressive revelation and it is not precisely clear when God revealed certain truths to Paul. What is clear, however, is that the Church began with Paul. He stated this in 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Timothy 1. See my article Paul: Chief of Sinners? At the Council of Jerusalem, Paul explained his gospel to the Jewish leaders. He would not have had to do this had they been proclaiming the same gospel. That gospel was 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. Again, 1 Corinthians was written during the Acts period. This is the gospel by which one becomes a member of the Church, the body of Christ. See my article, The Great Hinge.

       Reply ↓
57. toddott September 9, 2021 at 5:50 am

    The Church began with Christ in choosing the twelve disciples to be the foundation and breathing His Spirit into them. What Paul revealed was the mystery that Gentiles would become part of the Church. You seem to think that the Church built on the foundation of the Israelite Apostles and Israelite Prophets is somehow a Gentile body. The passage from Timothy about rightly dividing the Word has NOTHING to do with separating Israel and the Church. Jesus death made the two one. This was clearly prophesied in the OT beginning with the fact that Japeth would dwell in the tents of Shen.
    If you understood that God created the natural to teach us the spiritual, you would see the obvious fact that the Church is the Bride. The entrance of the High Priest into the Most Holy Place of the Temple pictures the entrance of a husband into the most holy place of his bride. And the entrance must be by blood because blood is a symbol of virginity, a broken hymen. A husband places his seed into his Bride and she bears fruit…nine months later. Jesus places the Seed of the Word, the Holy Spirit into His Bride and she bears spiritual fruit, the fruit of the Spirit. The Bride is composed of all who have the Spirit indwelling them. In other words, the Church. Unless of course Jesus has been unfaithful and has impregnated us Gentiles with His Seed while His Bride Israel is not watching.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 9, 2021 at 8:34 am

       Toddott,
       Your reply is the traditional view of Christendom which has resulted in massive error and confusion and why we have thousands of denominations. Paul wrote that he began the Church, the body of Christ. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners? The Twelve knew nothing of the fact that Jews and Gentiles were united into one body, equal in Christ, and that salvation was by faith alone until Paul revealed this. Paul wrote that the Church was a secret. Something cannot be both known and not known. A is not non-A. The Old Testament only revealed that Jews would be the source of all blessing to Gentiles. The prophets knew nothing about Jew and Gentile becoming equal in Christ. That was a revelation the ascended Lord gave Paul. All Church doctrine comes from Paul. No Church doctrine is in the Gospels or the writings of Peter, James, John, or Jew. Unless one grasps this one can never understand Church theology. The Church is the Body of Christ, not the Bride.

       Reply ↓
58. estevek October 26, 2021 at 12:13 pm

    enjoyed this study immensely. we call the Mystery the “sacred secret.” Jews and Gentiles fellow-heirs and of the same body. if you don’t get that, many other truths will remain hidden. thanks, brother!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 26, 2021 at 1:25 pm

       Estevek,
       Thank you!

       Reply ↓
59. Wayne December 8, 2021 at 8:46 am

    Great discussion to say the least.

    Reply ↓
60. Jafo December 27, 2021 at 5:27 am

    The New city of Jerusalem has 12 foundation levels representing the 12 Apostles. What is not clear is who is the 12th apostle? Is it Judas … not likely. The two logical choices are an apostle chosen by the 11 thru the use of lots. Or it’s Paul. I always considered Paul the most logical choice as he like the other 11 were chosen directly by Christ Himself.
    If this is correct, with Paul being the 12th foundation, than the church would be represented in the New Jerusalem, and be part of the bride.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 27, 2021 at 8:21 am

       Jafo,
       It is Matthias. That was settled in Acts 1. He replaced Judas. Definitely not Paul. He did not meet the qualifications and God saved him to the “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13). The Twelve were apostles of Israel. The Church is not found anywhere in Revelation. It is completely absent. Revelation concerns Israel and the nations.

       Reply ↓
61. Donna L.Lewis Abrams January 25, 2023 at 1:18 pm

    Oh, how I thank God for what Paul called the “simplicity of the Gospel”! How I praise Jesus that we can have a personal, precious, living relationship with Him that surpasses knowledge about Him. Knowledge does indeed “puff up” but love, His love builds up. I know whom (Paul did not say what) I have believed and am persuaded that He (not it) is able to keep that (all the differences of opinions) which I have committed unto Him (not them) against that day. How wonderful to trust Jesus with the things that we may see with limitations now through a darkened glass, even though we try to clean that glass with education or Greek/Hebrew. I thank God He speaks to us through His Word. I thank God that Paul himself told Timothy that ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man/woman of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” I thank God The Living Word sends His written word to our spirits through the Holy Spirit who guides us not just TO truth but IN..TO truth as He speaks to us about the things concerning Jesus. It is, after all, about Him….that He might have preeminence in ALL THINGS. Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of those that diligently seek to know Him…Him…Him. Oh, the blessed simplicity of His Gospel. No wonder Paul who had been to the third Heaven and seen things unlawful to utter, still cried out, “Oh. that I may KNOW HIM, and the power of his Resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death…” I am so happy to belong to Him and rest in the understanding that He knows exactly what He and the Father are doing after all, that Crystal River of Life flows from the Throne of God and from The Lamb. Sweet Peace.

    Reply ↓
    1. Anthony Serrao July 16, 2024 at 10:48 am

       TY Donna,

       Your heartfelt testimony wrapped in Scripture blesses my heart.

       Reply ↓
62. John Vilkas April 22, 2023 at 10:28 pm

    Scofield and Chafer both summed up their theological arguments that the body of Christ is also his Bride because an adulterous though forgiven and restored wife could never be considered the pure virgin bride espoused to the Lamb! I WOW, really,I guessed they missed Isaiah 1:18/ John 10:37-38/ 2 Cor.1:20/ Hosea 2:19-20 etc.

    Reply ↓
    1. Joe April 23, 2023 at 5:23 pm

       John, I’d like to read Chafer’s comments on this. Please direct me to your source. Thank you.

       Reply ↓
       1. John Vilkas May 6, 2023 at 1:26 pm

          Sorry Joe,it was so long ago the reference has either been lost and/or deleted in transitioning to newer tech?! However check Scofield commentary note on Hosea chapter 2 in his study bible.l have very limited resources to locate it again but Ive been trying. John

          Reply ↓
          1. Joe May 9, 2023 at 7:30 pm

             John, I’ve got the complete set of Chafer’s Systematic Theology and I can’t find it either. I wonder if Paul ever refers to Christ’s Bride? Maybe it’s a Jewish ,Kingdom of Heaven., reference.

             Reply ↓
             1. John D Vilkas June 22, 2023 at 1:45 pm

                Still searching myself for it but I did find what appears to be a “sanitized” version” of it in Major Bible Themes by Chafer and revised by John Walvoord. It may be in an older version or perhaps just a doctrinal position paper strictly on who the Bride of Christ is supposed to be according to Chafer and others !! John

                Reply ↓
63. Joe June 23, 2023 at 2:57 pm

    John,

    Chafer, Vol IV, pgs 136-141

    A compelling argument but limited in my opinion…but then who am I to disagree with the man?

    Reply ↓
    1. John D. Vilkas June 26, 2023 at 3:27 am

       Thanks Joe, Scofield appears to have been Chafer’s mentor. Amazing that such a hidden attitude of the soul can affect and defile [theologically] so many leading to terrible results at times actually !! Hebrews 12:15/ Proverbs 22:21/ Romans 3.3-4. Shalom, John

       Reply ↓
64. Mike Mullenix October 27, 2023 at 12:34 am

    I have found that EW Bullinger taught this 110 yrs ago.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 27, 2023 at 10:49 am

       Mike,
       Bullinger was a tireless scholar and had some wonderful insights.

       Reply ↓
       1. Michael D Mullenix October 28, 2023 at 6:08 pm

          I agree, our family has used his studies and it was refreshing to find your commentary. The Israel bride of Christ is a dispensation doctrine position. And the distinctive ministry of Paul’s ” revelation of the mystery ” revealed only in his church epistles. And is the hope for the body of Christ layed up for us.

          Reply ↓
    2. Joe October 27, 2023 at 4:50 pm

       Mike, off the internet

       According to Dr. E.W. Bullinger, a well-known clergyman in the Church of England, members of Christ’s body are not the bride, but part of the Bridegroom Himself1. However, some people believe that the Bride of Christ is specifically identified as the New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation2.

       Reply ↓
65. Leonito December 18, 2023 at 9:01 pm

    I have a question about the Bride of Christ. What is your opinion?
    Explanation to 2 Corinthians 11:2? What does the Apostle Paul talk about?
    Thank you

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2023 at 9:06 am

       Leonito,
       I believe I deal with this in the article.

       Reply ↓
66. Sue Penn February 11, 2024 at 7:14 pm

    Thank you for this!

    I’m amazed at the amount of ignorance between understanding the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ.

    It seems as though something went wrong somewhere, and things became scrambled. Mixing prophecy with mystery. It appears that perhaps this has been the fault of Bible colleges and Seminaries, who continue to teach incorrectly and have no education in rightly dividing the word…then send out Pastors who never really studied themselves, but go out and regurgitate what they were taught.

    It’s sad.

    God bless you for knowing how to rightly divide and boldly share the truth.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 11, 2024 at 8:47 pm

       Sue,
       Thank you. You are correct. The vast majority of Bible colleges and seminaries have no understanding of this fundamental truth.

       Reply ↓
67. Melodie March 20, 2024 at 10:17 am

    Excellent article. This brings so much clarity to exactly WHO the Bride of Christ is. Thank you!

    Reply ↓

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