Introduction
Paul’s Epistle to the Romans is the great doctrinal treatise of Christianity. In the letter, Paul dealt with the subjects of man’s sin, justification, sanctification, glorification, and how we are to live in view of these truths. Paul covered these subjects in Romans 1-8 and 12-16. In the intervening chapters of 9-11 Paul took up a new subject: Israel. Paul addressed Israel’s past (9), present (10), and future (11) in Romans 9-11 due to the Jews rejection of Jesus as their Messiah and King. Understanding Paul’s argument concerning Israel is foundational to orthodox theology. The stakes are high: misreading Paul’s argument completely distorts Biblical theology. Sadly, as early as the second century, Christendom began a systemic failure to recognize Paul’s unique apostleship or understand his theology. As a consequence, much of what is taught concerning ecclesiology, eschatology, and Israelology throughout most of Christendom is wrong.
The ascended Lord saved and commissioned Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul, “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13; Ephesians 3.1; 1 Timothy 2.7). His commission was to proclaim the “gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20.24) to Gentiles (Romans 11.13). This commission was new and different from the commission Jesus had given the Twelve. Paul’s commissioning occurred after it became clear that Israel would not accept Jesus as the promised Messiah. While the nation had orchestrated his crucifixion, Israel had numerous opportunities to repent and accept him after his resurrection and ascension. The crisis point for the nation came at Stephen’s trial before the Sanhedrin (Acts 7.1-60). When the Sanhedrin stoned Stephen, it became clear that the nation would not repent. But according to God’s prophetic program, the Gentiles were to be blessed through Israel (Isaiah 42.1; Zech. 8.23). The following two questions, therefore, come into focus:
- Since the Jews rejected the Messiah in his first advent and they were to serve as the channel of blessing to Gentiles, how could God bless the Gentiles? Jewish prophecy had no answer to this question. God’s answer was His commissioning of Paul. Paul was the new apostle to fulfill that role.
- But what of the Jews? What was their future? Did they have a future since they had rejected the Messiah? God’s answer to this question was his revelation to Paul in Romans 9-11.
Examination of the Text
Romans 9.1-5
1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh,who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
From this passage we learn that the subject of Paul’s discussion is his kinsmen according to the flesh, i.e., Jews, and that to them belonged God’s blessings of the adoption as sons, the glory, the covenants, the Law, the temple service, the promises, the fathers, and the Messiah. Paul was not talking about Gentiles or the Church. Gentiles had no part of God’s covenantal dealings with Israel (cf. Ephesians 2.11-13) other than the general blessing under the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12.3). Paul revealed his heartache and great distress over Israel’s disobedience and wished, if possible, that he might be accursed and separated from Christ if Israel could be saved.
Romans 9.6-18
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
We have seen from the introductory verses that Paul’s subject was the physical offspring of Jacob. He next introduced the question of whether God’s plan had failed since Israel had failed. He declared: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed.” Paul’s reasoning was in two parts. The first was “they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel.” Paul recognized that there were two levels of being a Jew. The nation was in a covenant relationship with God and therefore blessings or cursings came upon all Jews. But beyond that, Paul understood the role faith played among individual Jews. There was more to being a Jew than just being a physical descendant of Abraham. To illustrate, he stated, “through Isaac your descendants will be named”, “the older will serve the younger”, and “Jacob have I loved, but Esau I hated”. Isaac and Jacob exercised faith. Isaac was the child of promise (“Abraham believed in the Lord and he counted it unto him for righteousness,” Genesis 15.6) and faith. God rejected the Abraham/Hager=Ishmael initiative for it represented works, not faith. In the case of Jacob, he exercised faith in that he revered the birthright that Esau despised.
The second part of Paul’s reasoning was God’s sovereignty. Paul illustrated this point by citing, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy…”, and “for this very purpose I raised you up” speaking of Pharoah. Paul’s conclusion: “He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” His point was that since God was sovereign, His plan for Israel had not failed (could not fail) because the nation failed.
Romans 9.19-33
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25 As He says also in Hosea, “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’ And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’” 26 “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” 27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute His word on the earth, thoroughly and quickly.” 29 And just as Isaiah foretold, “Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left to us a posterity, we would have become like Sodom, and would have resembled Gomorrah.” 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel,pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Paul anticipated an objection to God’s sovereignty: if God was sovereign and if his will was irresistible, how could God find fault? Paul’s answer to this objection was essentially the same response as God’s answer to Job. Despite the seeming unfairness of Job’s suffering, after God had questioned him, Job replied,
5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You; 6 Therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42.5-6).
A word of caution is needed. Paul’s phrase, “vessels of wrath prepared for destruction” has nothing to do with individual predestination, particularly any teaching that God has predestined some to heaven and some to hell. Paul’s subject was God’s covenant people, Israel, and how He had dealt and will deal with them on the basis of covenantal promises. The phrase, “vessels of wrath” is σκεύη ὀργῆς. In the present context, the sense is vessels that merited wrath. His phrase κατηρτισμένα εἰς ἀπώλειαν is best translated “were fitted for destruction. Paul’s point was to demonstrate God’s mercy. He did this by asking “what if” (εἰ δὲ in v. 22) God patiently tolerated vessels of wrath whose end was destruction. Each of us is without hope without God. God tolerated “vessels of wrath” to “make known” (γνωρίζω) “the riches of his glory upon the vessels of mercy which he prepared beforehand (προετοιμάζω) for glory.” Paul argued that all deserved destruction but that God’s glory was demonstrated on those who received mercy–both Jew and Gentile. He quoted Hosea and Isaiah to demonstrate God’s mercy to Israel. Israel, whom God had called “not my people,” (Hosea 1.9-10) will become “my people” and God will save a remnant out of Israel. We see Paul’s argument beginning to congeal: God had revealed through the prophets that He had a future for national Israel. Paul then emphasized how God’s mercy was realized–and how it was lost. To illustrate this he brought in the Gentiles. Gentiles pursued righteousness on the basis of works but took hold of God’s mercy and obtained righteousness by faith–by believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). The Jews, however, stumbled because of self-righteous unbelief: they refused to believe Jesus was the Messiah.
Romans 10.1-11
1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Paul reiterated his deep desire for salvation for his kinsmen. He noted their zeal for God–a zeal with which Paul could identify wholeheartedly. He noted that this zeal was confused (as his had been) since it was directed by self-righteousness. Paul’s point was to declare that true righteousness was based on faith. He emphasized God was near so that one does not have to strain to ascend to heaven or descend to the grave to find God. Salvation is attained by believing the gospel “confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead” (1 Corinthians 15-1-4)–not by works.
Romans 10.12-21
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation, by a nation without understanding will I anger you.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I was found by those who did not seek Me, I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me.” 21 But as for Israel He says, “All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
In these verses, Paul stated one of the mysteries that the ascended, glorified Lord had revealed to him: the Church, the body of Christ. With the Lord’s commission of Paul, and His revelation of the Church, the body of Christ, to Paul distinctions between Jew and Gentile were excluded in Christ (see Paul’s “Mystery”). The word of salvation had gone forth to Israel in the past through Moses and Isaiah (quoted above) and now was going forth through Paul. Paul’s gospel now fulfills the prophecy.
Romans 11.1-11
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, Eyes to see not and ears to hear not, Down to this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, And a stumbling block and a retribution to them. 10 “Let their eyes be darkened to see not, And bend their backs forever.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
Paul’s argued that there was always an Israel within Israel, a remnant, a “true” Israel. Thus, Paul stated, “for they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel” (Romans 9.6 cf. Isaiah 9.8). Paul then asked an essential question concerning the Jews future in light of their history of unbelief and rejection of their Messiah, “God has not rejected his people, has he?” We must keep Paul’s argument in mind. Who was the subject? His subject was national Israel. This Paul made clear, not only from the context, but from his declaration: “for I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.” Paul’s answer to this question was the strongest negative he used: (μὴ γένοιτο, cf. Romans 9.14).1 To ensure no one would misunderstand, Paul stated in verse 2, “God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew” (v. 2, cf. 1 Samuel 12.22; Psalm 94.14). This is as plain as language can be.
Paul knew his Bible and continued his argument by appealing constantly to the prophets. He cited Elijah, who had thought he was the only believer in all of Israel. God assured Elijah he was not alone–there were 7,000 others. God always had a believing remnant in Israel. For Elijah to think this reveals how dismal the spiritual climate was in Israel in his day. Considering that Israel’s population was about 7 million, this meant that only 1 in 1,000 Jews were believers. The percentages have always been small (Matthew 7.13-14). Thus, Paul stated, “in the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.”
When Paul wrote of “God’s gracious choice” he reaffirmed to his readers that grace eliminated works. Because Israel had “worked” to establish their righteousness, they had failed. What God required was faith–to believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah (cf. Matthew 16.13-16; John 1.49, 11.26-27; Acts 8.35-37). Paul stated in verse 7 that Israel (the majority of Jews) had not obtained what it sought, i.e., the covenantal promises and blessings of God, but the “elect” (ἡ ἐκλογὴ), i.e., believing Israel (the remnant), obtained them. As for the rest of the nation, they were hardened (πωρόω). This word means to harden or become callous or insensitive to touch (cf. Mark 6.52; 8.17; John 12.40). In verse 8, Paul employed a combination quote (cf. Isaiah 29.10, 6.9), and stated that Israel was in a stupor. He went on to quote David (another combination quote, cf. Psalm 69.23; 34.8; 28:4) when he spoke words of judgment regarding God’s enemies.
In light of all the above, one might be tempted to think that after all this failure, God would replace Israel with something better. Anticipating such a thought, Paul asked, “I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?” What was Paul’s answer? Again, he answered with his strongest negative–μὴ γένοιτο–No!!!! It is hard to understand how one can misunderstand these verses. Paul declared again and again that while Israel had failed, while only a remnant of the nation (those who apprehended God by faith) was approved of by God, that God was not through with the offspring of Jacob. The notion that God has “replaced” Israel with the Church is as false a teaching as denial of the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, or the bodily resurrection of Christ. Yet this false teaching has existed in Christendom since the early second century.2
What has been the result of Israel’s hardening? Paul declared in verses 11-12:
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!
As a result of Israel’s failure, God in his mercy brought salvation to Gentiles. According to God’s program for Israel, which God had revealed through the prophets, Gentiles would be blessed through the success of Israel (Isaiah 42.1; Zechariah 8.20-23). According to the prophetic plan, the Messiah would be rejected, the tribulation would come, and the Lord would set up his kingdom on earth, ruling from Jerusalem (Psalm 2. 1-6). God had never revealed anything through the prophets about the Church, the Body of Christ. Nor did Jesus reveal anything about the Church during his earthly ministry. The body of Christ was a “secret” God held in his own mind until Paul. Instead of bringing in the prophesied tribulation, the “wrath of God,” (Jeremiah 30.7), God saved the Apostle Paul to become “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13) and proclaim “the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20.24). The prophesied earthly kingdom (Zechariah 14.9) was delayed. God revealed to Paul a new plan in which He is building his Church, the Body of Christ. Thus, while Israel failed, God’s purpose to bless the Gentiles was not thwarted. Mercy and grace came to Gentiles, not through Israel’s success, but through Israel’s failure. Furthermore, Paul stated that if such good came from Israel’s failure, think of the glory that will come when they succeed, i.e., “how much more will their fulfillment be (v. 12)!” Thus, Paul wrote in verse 15, “for if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?”
Romans 11.16-32
Paul now began his great teaching of the olive tree:
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” 27 “This is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
Paul used the olive tree to represent God’s blessing. The holy root began with God’s dealings with Abraham. The Jews were the natural branches that grew from this root. Because of unbelief, God broke them off. After this, God grafted believing Gentiles (primarily) onto the olive tree as “wild” branches. As a result, these “wild” branches now partake of the “rich root of the olive tree.” They partake of God’s blessing on the basis of faith–as the original receiver of blessings (Abraham) partook of them by faith (Romans 4.3). Paul issued a prescient warning to the “wild” branches (Gentiles) not to boast at the expense of the natural branches (Israel) because the branches–natural or wild–do not support the root. Rather, the root supports the branches. He continued, knowing what would be said: “branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Paul acknowledged this was true but warned the “wild” branches that they stand by faith alone and if God did not spare the natural branches he surely would not spare “wild” branches.
Paul then went on to declare that the “natural” branches (Israel) would be regrafted into the olive tree. Thus in verses 23-24:
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul’s statement, “if they do not continue in their unbelief” is a Greek 3rd class condition. The fulfillment is uncertain but likely. However, the Old Testament Scriptures, as well as what Paul stated in the passage, indicates the outcome is certain: the natural branches will be grafted in again. Paul had used the same 3rd class condition in the previous verse (v. 22), “if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off,” in writing about the Church, the Body of Christ. Thus, we find an equivalence of likelihood regarding both God’s promises to Israel and God’s promises to the Church.
Paul then provided new information. The Old Testament had not revealed it, Jesus did not reveal it in His earthly ministry, and Peter and the other apostles knew nothing of it. Paul wrote in verses 25-26a:
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery–so that you will not be wise in your own estimation–that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved;
Paul revealed a “secret” (τὸ μυστήριον τοῦτο). A μυστήριον is not something “strange” or “mysterious” but something hidden, a secret. The secret was that a “partial hardening has happened to Israel.” The hardening was partial, for some Jews did believe in Christ. The hardening was also temporary, as revealed by the word “until” (ἄχρι). Paul disclosed the rest of the secret when he revealed when the hardening would end. The answer was when the “fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” The “fullness of the Gentiles” was Paul’s phrase for completion of the Body of Christ, the Church (1 Corinthians 15.23, 52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4.14-17; 2 Thessalonians 1.1-6). When the Body of Christ is complete, God will remove it and deal again with his covenant people, Israel. God will return to the timeline he had revealed to David (Psalm 2.1-6) and the other prophets. God had delayed His wrath following the rejection of his Son. We have been the beneficiaries and have enjoyed 2,000 years of God’s grace. After God removes the Body of Christ God will inaugurate the prophetic “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30.7) or the tribulation, as Jesus called it (Matthew 24.21, 9). During this time Israel will repent and return to God (Matthew 23.39). The result will be that “all Israel will be saved”. What did Paul mean by this? It meant that every Jew who survived the Tribulation would believe in Jesus as the Messiah. Peter had declared to the nation this requirement in his first sermon after the ascension of Christ and the advent of the Holy Spirit. His message to “all the house of Israel” (Acts 2.36) was that every Jew had to repent (Acts 2.38, cf. 3.22-23). As Luke recorded in the book of Acts, that generation of Jews refused. However, a future generation of Jews will succeed. This fact is declared by the prophets (Isaiah 66.7-9, 25.9; Zechariah 12.10, 13.6).
Thus, Paul declared, quoting Isaiah 59.20-21, Jeremiah 31.33-34, Isaiah 27.9:
just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” “THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”
What was Paul’s conclusion? He wrote in verses 28-29:
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Paul understood Israel’s situation and her future because God had revealed the secret (μυστήριον) of it to him. Paul had experienced the Jews as enemies of the gospel in his own ministry by their persecution of him and their rejection of Christ (Acts 13.46; 18.6; 28.28). Personally, Paul understood it (all too well!) because he had been the leader of the persecution before his conversion. Nevertheless, Paul declared that the offspring of Jacob were “beloved” because of the fathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) and that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable”. God is sovereign and trustworthy. He sovereignly bestows gifts and keeps his promises.
He reminded his Gentile readers that just as they were once disobedient but had now received God’s mercy, Israel, who has been disobedient, will receive mercy (Rom. 9.30-31). Thus, he concluded, “for God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.” Each of us–Jew and Gentile–has failed (Romans 3.10-12 cf. Psalm 14.1-3; Romans 3.23). But God through his Son solved the sin problem through His death and resurrection and is able to provide mercy to all.
Romans 11.33-36
Conclusion
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Paul fittingly ended his great dissertation on God’s sovereign mercy with a paean of praise for the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the Most High God. God, because he is sovereign, is able to work all things for good to those who trust him. To him alone belongs all glory, praise, and honor.
1 The translation, “may it never be!” for μὴ γένοιτο is anemic to modern ears. It fails to communicate the force of the negative. We would express it as “No way!”, Unthinkable!
2 C.E.B. Cranfield, The Epistle to the Romans, T & T Clark, 1979, vol. 2, p. 448. Cranfield wrote, “It is only where the Church persists in refusing to learn this message, where it secretly–perhaps quite unconsciously!–believes that its own existence is based on human achievement, and so fails to understand God’s mercy to itself, that it is unable to believe in God’s mercy for still unbelieving Israel, and so entertains the ugly and unscriptural notion that God has cast off His people Israel and simply replaced it by the Christian Church. These three chapters emphatically forbid us to speak of the Church as having once and for all taken the place of the Jewish people. He then added in a footnote: But the assumption that the Church has simply replaced Israel as the people of God is extremely common. Thus Barrett, for example, writes: ‘This fact reminds us that behind Paul’s discussion there lies the historical background formed by the ministry of Jesus; his rejection and crucifixion by Israel [but such passages as 1 Th 2.15 and Acts 2.23; 4.10 certainly do not give those of us who are Gentiles any right to ignore the decisive part played by the Romans in the crucifixion of Jesus], which thereby disavowed its own place in God’s plan; and the election of a new Israel in Christ to take the place of the old’ (p. 191f). And I confess with shame to having also myself used in print on more than one occasion this language of the replacement of Israel by the Church.”
©2010 Don Samdahl. Anyone is free to reproduce this material and distribute it, but it may not be sold.
Updated October 6, 2010
Mr. Samdahl,
I have come across this man’s video’s on Youtube. I find them very interesting but also troubling. Would you please listen to this one and some others and respond with your thoughts?
Deb
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Unfortunately, much of what “Brother Nathaniel” says in his video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9trCus2SG0) is held by mainstream Christianity, particular those who adhere to what is know as Covenant Theology. But in the Bible, God Himself declared that Israel was special, cf. Exodus 19.5-6; Deuteronomy 7.6, 14.2, 26.18-19, 32.8-9. Paul taught that anyone who believes his gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) whether Jew or Gentile becomes a member of the body of Christ in which distinction between Jew and Gentile disappears (Galatians 3.26-29). But Paul also taught that God is not finished with national Israel for he declared that “all Israel” (Jews) would be saved (Romans 11.26). This will fulfill our Lord’s words of Matthew 23.37-39).
I have just read your article. I feel there is a blindness in Christendom, even in many evangelical churches where replacement theology is promoted. I fear they do not love the truth of Romans 9-11; hence, are misguided altogether. This blindness, I think, may come from pride and unbelief.
Partial blindness is seen in Israel, blindness resides in the lost (2 Cor 4:4) and blindness in the church, as reflected by replacement theology. What’s new? Human depravity refuses light and prefers darkness.
Hi Don,
Question on: You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Does this imply that OSAS is wrong?
Your essay reminds me of Bullinger’s comment in his Revelation commentary to the effect that the church has been all to eager to appropriate the blessings of Israel for itself while conveniently leaving the curses for Israel.
Maranatha,
Bob
Bob,
Paul was not writing about individuals but programs. The first was Israel, the second, Gentiles. Only believing Jews and only believing Gentiles enjoy the full blessings of God. Israel had the covenants, the Word of God, etc. and as a program was in the place of blessing beginning with Abraham. Gentiles as a program were given the place of blessing beginning with Paul. Both programs stand by faith, hence the warning. Individual blessing comes by faith.
Thanks, Don. Your answer is crystal clear.
Maranatha,
Bob
Can you explain Romans 10:9,10 Thanks!
Charles,
The text reads, “9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. This is Paul’s gospel. Normally, Paul did not include “confess” or “profess” regarding the gospel. However, see 1 Timothy 6.12. For Paul, salvation was based upon faith + 0. I think what he was getting at was confession/profession was public revelation of an inward attitude. This is what the Lord declared in Matthew 10.32. See also Acts 23.8. Confession/profession is verbal belief. Perhaps Paul wrote in this way because his primary audience in Romans 9-11 was Jews. See how the word ὁμολογέω was used in its various contexts and speakers.
Hello Don,
I recently met a man named Gary Meuser who has written a book entitled A Smarter Heart. Having just read the first chapter, Gary purports that the heart has intelligence. The heart is mentioned often in the Bible, including Romans 10:10, “for with the heart a person believes,…”
Can you tell us a little about the heart vs the mind as it relates to the Bible?
As always, your articles and comments are a blessing.
Regards…..Jack S, Meridian, ID
Jack,
The word heart (לֵב, καρδία is used for one’s whole being–mind, will, emotions. It is basically synonymous with “soul.”
Don, hello and thank you. Today in Israel there is the Armenian, Christian, orthodox, and muslim quaters (Arab), and they permit Arabs (ten last count) to set in the KINESSET. There is enormous idolotry and baggage and to say the least very controversial biblically. A few have suggested this is a political state of being not prophesied. In the prophesies of the return and gathering of Israel do think Israel must under go some form of seperation first before they call on the LORD ? The jew seeks a sign. That being said, would that occure first. Or are they yet to be called? Any thoughts? Thank You.
Courtney,
What is going on right now is stage-setting. Israel will remain nationally blinded until the mid-point of the Tribulation. When they witness the abomination of desolation they will flee to the mountains and recognize the Antichrist is not the Messiah, but a pretender. Near the end of the 7 years they will repent nationally (every Jew) and recognize Jesus as the Messiah. When they do, He will return (Matthew 23.37-39).
When you say above that Israel will remain nationally blind does this mean just those Jews in Israel or Jews worldwide?
Donna,
I mean the Jews as a people, a race. Proportionally, I think as many Jews believe Paul’s gospel as Gentiles.
Wonderful piece.
Question…NT Wright indicates that our (American) preoccupation with the second coming of Jesus is a misinterpretation of First Thessalonians. His thesis is that there is no rapture. Certainly a second coming but coming will be to stay and fix it all.
I have brought this up to a number of pastors and almost thrown out the front door! Wrights argument is quite adroit. Our Left Behind books have been very popular but I see an elite mentality in the corporate church and a sense that if the whole world is going to burn why should Christians care about the environment or justice etc.
Don’t want to ramble more. Wright’s article is Farewell to the Rapture. Comes right up on Google. Would appreciate your take.
Blessings,
David
David,
Thank you. I’ve read Wright’s Rapture before so won’t revisit. Paul expected to be raptured and told his readers to comfort one another with this doctrine. This doctrine could hardly have been more emphasized. It was the “blessed hope.” The problem with Wright is he does not understand Paul. Paul’s “secrets” τὰ μυστήρια were the vehicles and keys to his theology. They are for Church doctrine what Israel’s covenants were to their theology. Unless one gets a grip on this one cannot understand Paul. Wright does not.
Hello bro Don, in romans 2:16, how can you reconcile Paul talking to Israel and gentiles of the kingdom program telling them they will be judged by Paul’s gospel of grace, seems contradictorial, ? Please tell me how you read this passage thanks!
George,
All mankind is ultimately judged on the basis of Christ’s work which was Paul’s gospel. His death and resurrection solved the problem of sin and death.
Since Jesus died and all that believe he did and was resurrected,and believe he’s the Messiah,will be saved.
Wouldn’t this Include any Jew.
Meaning,they don’t have to go through the John the Baptist preaching.
Michael,
Since the Council of Jerusalem was settled, only one gospel exists, Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Anyone who believes it is saved.
Do you think that the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment of the biblical prophecies about Jews returning to their land? My personal doubts are several; only parts of the twelve tribes have returned, and then only to a fraction of the land promised to their fathers and so on. What is your opinion?
Martin,
It’s not the fulfillment but it is the stage-setting. If anyone (other than those who believed the Bible literally) had said 200 years ago that the Jews would again have their homeland and return to it, they would have been thought crazy. Not until the Lord returns will all the covenant promises be fulfilled.
Don,
In a nutshell, would you say that the purpose of the tribulation is to get Israel to repent?
Bob
Bob,
Israel’s repentance will result from the Tribulation but its purpose is to judge an evil, Christ-rejecting world. All the false religions over the millennia have been proxies of Satanic worship. This will culminate in the seven years as Satan will become manifest on earth. Almost the entire planet will be worshipping Satan and the Beast when the Lord returns.
As a believer I accept that life has purpose. Though I believe in purpose I don’t understand the purpose of never ending Hell/never ending torment/Lake of Fire…..what’s the purpose of that?…..unless unsaved humans are not known by God, not loved by God, not recognized by God, etc. But even then why not just black/obliteration like the JW’s believe? What is gained? What is the value?………….”For God so loved the world”…..certainly this includes all that have lived including the unsaved. ………..is it something as simple as a ‘creation’ of God cannot be exterminated and needs a place to exist for eternity?
thank you
Joe,
Unknown. What is known is that all creatures with the ability to know God live forever. Once created, they cannot cease to exist. Why is not known. The bottom line is that no one need go to hell. God has done everything to prevent it. All who are in hell go by choice.
I’ve always wondered about Gal. 6:15-16 and the “Israel of God”. A recent article in the “Berean Searchlight” suggests that Paul is speaking of the two gospels. Those who are the “New Creatures” of the gospel of Grace and the Israel of God as the believers of the Kingdom Gospel.
Don, what do you think?
Joe,
See my article: “Israel” as a Technical Term.
Who was Paul referring to when he said “I was found by those who didn’t seek me, I became manifest to those who didn’t ask for me”
Thank you
Gideon,
Paul’s point was that Israel did not find God because they refused to believe Him but that Gentiles did. He is setting up for what he will say in Romans 11.
Don, I was telling this pastor that the Church began with Paul and that we can’t mix Israel with the Church. That Peter addressed men of Israel on Pentecost.I thought you might find his response interesting and how he misinterprets 1 Peter 1:18 to mean Peter addressed Gentiles.
“There’s scholarly debate around this. The view you’ve shared is consistent with the idea that Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles and Peter to the Jews and is a pretty traditional view. In my reading, many modern scholars see Peter addressing a Gentile, or mostly Gentile, audience. This is mostly drawn from the internal evidence of the text:
1:18 “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors”
Many see this as a description of the Gentile believer’s break from the pagan way of life and doubt that Peter would describe the believer’s Jewish ancestry as “the empty way of life.”
4:3 “For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.”
Similar story with this verse. While Jewish life may have been overly legalistic, there’s little evidence that it was characterized by debauchery, drunkenness, orgies, etc. I see here evidence that Peter is speaking to Gentiles who have broken from accepted cultural practices.
Of course, the evidence is mixed, and my view could be mistaken.”
Craig,
It is astonishing any debate should exists as to Peter’s audience. 1 Peter 1.1 shows he wrote to Jews—Gentiles were not resident foreigners of the Dispersion. Jews were scattered throughout these regions due to invasions, persecutions, etc. No record exists that Peter had a ministry to Gentiles after he visited Cornelius’ house. To say he or the Twelve did is to misread and misunderstand the theology of the NT.
I have a lot of trouble with your theology. God is sovereign. He already knew the Jews would not totally accept Yeshua. And also, many Jews were saved not only while Yeshua walked among them but at Shavuot after his resurrection and ascension. So your premise that God had to change the gospel message of Yeshua just doesn’t add up for me. I did not get past your first paragraph here. But I read your Jesus vs Paul and felt as if you are making an idol out of Paul. Yeshua told the 12 to go out and make disciples of all nations. That certainly meant gentile nations. And since He was God with flesh on, He already knew Israel would not totally accept him. This was no surprise at all to Yahweh.
I’ve been studying the Jewishness of my faith for 15 years now. No replacement theology for me.
Gayle,
It seems from what you have written that you do not understand that Jesus’ ministry did not end with His resurrection. He is the God of the Bible, who spoke to the prophets and after He rose from the dead spoke to Paul. To reject Paul’s writings means one rejects Christ’s revelations to Paul. Paul wrote nothing that he did not receive directly from the risen Christ (except when specifically noted). How do you think one is saved? From whom do we learn the gospel? Did the Twelve ever go to Gentiles? Not according to my Bible. The Twelve never had a ministry to Gentiles. Why not? Yes, God knew the Jews would not accept Jesus as the Messiah but the Twelve did not. Nothing in Jesus’ earthly ministry indicated there would be a lengthy rejection of Him. The Twelve all thought He would return in their lifetime. The problem with what you have written, is that it does not address these issues. Why did God save Paul? He had twelve good men? Why did He need Paul? Until one can answer these questions one cannot understand Church theology. Think about it.
Don,
Gayle is correct. Jesus did tell the 12 to go to all the nations but as late as Acts 8:1 they were still in Jerusalem. Is there any biblical evidence they ever left? I know of many traditions of where they eventually ventured but what does the bible say? I believe there is a reason they stayed in Jerusalem. Jesus had promised them leadership roles in the Kingdom that was to come….their timing was off.
comments?
Joe,
We have no Biblical information the Twelve went to the nations. They thought Jesus would return in their lifetime and Acts 1.8 describes the order of ministry. Once God saved Paul he took on the role of ministry to Gentiles. Tradition has it that he was imprisoned there but Patmos was not on the list of prison islands. It appears God moved John to Patmos supernaturally. The Greek simply states that John found himself on Patmos, much like how God moved Philipp to Azotus.
Joe, that was the Great Commission to go into all nations. but it could not be carried out due to Israel’s unbelief. Gentiles could only be blest through israel. Israel dropped the ball. This is why God had Paul to serve as Israel’s by proxy.
Thanks Craig and btw–nice camper
Someday the Great Commission will be completed but it will entail some rough goings for those who chose to believe and accept the gospel of the Kingdom.as offered in the gospels. It’s difficult to imagine the horrors those believers will face throughout the course of those final years and the physical and mental strength it will take for those believers to endure all the way to the end…I believe at Christ’s return there will be very few outside of the 144,000. .
Thanks again
Don, one day every Jew will be a priest. Will this still apply only to men?
Craig,
I think the role of priest in the kingdom will not be a formal office for the people but will denote Jews as God’s representatives in fulfillment of the covenant promises.
Where does Scripture say the 144,000 will go when they are sealed. This information is given in Rev. 14:1-5 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Why do most Christians think these men will remain on the earth after they are sealed in chapter 7 verse 4? There is no Scripture to help you folks out in this belief. The verses I recorded show, clearly, these men report to the throne of God as firstfruits, and those present to witness their song, have been in heaven the past two thousand years. This group is the first to leave this planet when the Rapture begins. They appear before God’s throne, before the great multitude no one could number in Rev. 7: 9-10 stand before God’s throne. Sealed = Redeemed.
Daniel,
The 144,000 are Jews (Revelation 7). They are sealed by God with a mark of protection and identification to minister on earth (cf. Revelation 9.4). This seal is in distinction from those sealed with the mark of the Beast. They are likely those whom the Lord mentioned in Matthew 25.37-40. That they remain on earth is clear from Revelation 14.1. Mt. Zion is on earth, a hill outside Jerusalem (2 Samuel 5.7). They have nothing to do the the Rapture for they are not members of the Church, the body of Christ. They minister in God’s prophetic program, like the two witnesses. They are not with those in Revelation 7.9-10. These were killed in the Tribulation. That is what coming out of the Tribulation means in this passage. They were killed for their faith (washed their robes and made them white by the blood of the Lamb). This is a completely new and different scene from Revelation 7.1-8. The 144,000 are not killed for they are sealed, protected.
Please comment on the truth that Daniel 9:27 is now able to be fulfilled, for the first time since the words were recorded. The red heifers are eligible, and this war in Israel very well may lead to the covenant. I have been waiting for anybody to recognize this truth and have not seen a one. Dan. 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
Daniel,
Daniel 9.27 cannot be fulfilled until Christ removes His Church. Daniel 9 concerns God’s prophetic plan. The Church is outside prophecy. God’s prophetic plan concerns Jews and Gentiles. The Church is neither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation.
This particular mount Sion is clearly in heaven, as are the 144,000. We are told they are Redeemed, and before His throne, not only once, but twice in these five verses. If they are Redeemed from the earth as Scripture clearly states in Rev. 14:1-5 two separate times, why do you condemn them to this planet? The following two verses show that an angel will fly in the midst of heaven preaching the everlasting gospel to those deemed unworthy on the day Christ comes to gather all that are His. My understanding of these verses is simple to grasp, the sealing of the 144,000 in chapter 7 = the Redemption of the 144,000 in chapter 14, and they will be the next group to report before God’s throne, on the day Christ comes to gather all that are His.
Daniel,
Zion is always cited as on earth. No exceptions. From it, Christ will reign (Psalm 2.6) on earth (Zechariah 14.9).
I know you believe the Rapture must occur before the covenant is signed by many, does this also mean you do not agree that for the first time in history, this month of November, is the first month this prophecy is eligible for fulfillment. People should at least recognize the reality of this truth, seeing as it is a very awesome reality!
Daniel,
Why would November 2023 the trigger for possible fulfillment? Has God revealed the Beast?
Rev. 14: 3And they sang as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no one could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. No exceptions, phooey! These men are in heaven, and in truth are before God’s throne when they voice out a song on harps. The four beasts, and the elders are present to witness their song, which again is before God’s throne, and in heaven. Why do you ignore this verse? I hope other people also voice their opinion concerning the 144,000.
Daniel,
Revelation is theater. These are scenes. One cannot be certain about time in the scenes. A considerable time lapse may be between verses 1 and 2. Every reference to Zion is earthly. Please look at all the references to Zion. All are on earth. Why do you ignore Psalm 2.6 and Zechariah 14.9? Jesus is always associated with Zion on earth. The 144,000 are sealed on earth and remain on earth. The Lamb is on Mt. Zion on earth with the 144,000. This is simple and straightforward. The singing is in heaven. Two places.
November is only the month the prophecy became possible to be fulfilled, when the covenant will be signed is beyond my capacity to answer. I only know that the covenant will be ratified, before the Rapture.
Daniel,
The covenant is signed by the Beast. The Beast is not here. The Church is not present when the Beast is present. All your difficultly, most of the confusion in Christendom, comes from mixing the Church with prophecy. The Church has no prophecy. It is a new creation, outside of God’s prophetic plan with Israel and the nations.
There is not a time lapse in these 5 verses, verses 2 and 3 are one sentence, and at the end of verse 3, the 144,000 were redeemed from the earth. Sealed = Redemption. The Rapture will happen in the midst of the final seven years. The Beast will be revealed after the covenant is ratified, when he commits the abomination of desolation, this will cause God to send His Son to gather His own. Israel will build the third temple after the covenant is complete. Israel will begin sacrifices and oblations after the temple is complete, with the exception of the red heifer, she will have to be sacrificed before the temple can be built. Christians will be on the earth to witness this spectacle unfold, right up until the abomination of desolation occurs, and the Beast is revealed. This will be the time when the wrath of Christ begins. Part of the vengeance of Christ is to be separated from Him, and the Rapture is the first opportunity to join Him in heaven. This is when we will be looking up, and we will be caught up to heaven soon after these two revelations, The Beast will be revealed the same day the Son of man reveals Himself, and when 6 P.M. arrives in Israel we will be caught up on this second of the two days of the Son of man, recorded in Luke 17: 22-37. Christians are very slow to understand God’s plan for humanity. It is not that difficult, precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little, follow this sound advice from Isaiah to form your own understanding of God’s plan. I think your work is awesome, allowing a fool like me to record my opinion. Thank you for your efforts to be fair.
Daniel,
One cannot determine this from the grammar. Verses 1, 2, 3, all begin with the conjunctive καί, which often carries a time sense, “Then,” “And then,” etc. As for sealed=redeemed, Revelation is contrasting those who are “sealed” by the Beast with the 144,000 sealed by God. The verb “redeemed” is ἀγοράζω. When was it last used? In the previous chapter, just a few verses before, Revelation 13.17. Those who take the Beast’s mark are “sealed” to the Beast, a mark of protection, and can buy ἀγοράζω or sell. The mark protects in order to buy and sell. The 144,000 are sealed and “bought,” i.e., “redeemed from mankind.” Revelation shows they are protected to minister on earth in contrast to those who are protected by the Beast by taking his mark. Revelation covers 7 years, 42 months, 1260 days. The Beast operates 7 years according to Daniel 9.27, not 3 1/2 years. He emerges and confirms a covenant for one week (7 years). The abomination of desolation occurs at the midpoint of the 7 years. Paul explicitly wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 the Beast cannot appear until the Church is removed. His whole point in writing 2 Thessalonians was to give the Thessalonians a proof they were not in the Day of the Lord, the Tribulation. If the Beast operates 7 years, the Church must be removed first. “The departure” is the sure sign Paul gave the Thessalonians. Now, I will admit it is possible Zion here is a heavenly Zion based on Hebrews 12.22. If so, the scene John saw of the 144,000 is likely after Christ’s return. The 144,000 have nothing to do with the Rapture, for they are not members of the Church. They are Jews who believed the gospel of the kingdom, not Paul’s gospel. They minister on earth and God seals them for this purpose. If one does not separate the Church, composed of all who believe Paul’s gospel, from God’s covenant and prophetic plan with Israel and Gentiles, one cannot understand either Church theology or God’s prophetic program. Israel and the Church are distinct, separate programs. The Church is not Israel, Israel is not the Church. The Church is not Gentile. The Church is a new creation, neither Jew or Gentile. If one understands this basic truth, theology aligns. Apart from this, there is confusion and contradiction.
Verse 3 clearly states that these 144,000 are redeemed from the earth, and the following verse informs us they are firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb, redeemed from among men. Rev. 14: 3-4 And sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. The final sentence I understand to mean these men will be the next group of humans to appear before God’s throne. Can you please relay your understanding of this sentence, “These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
Daniel,
They are the first Jewish believers who believe the gospel of the kingdom after the Rapture. Since they are all identified as Jews, and represent the twelve tribes, we know the Church is gone. God has now restarted His program with Israel and the nations. They serve in the role not only as a witness to Jews but as “light to the Gentiles.” God seals, i.e., identifies and protects, them during the seven years. They are God’s firstfruits whom He will use to spread the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 24.14). God always has a remnant and they are God’s ministers to counter the deceit of the Beast that he is God.
So, you do not recognize the words that state these men are before God’s throne when they sing their song, or the truth recorded about these men being redeemed from the earth. You simply state the Church is gone before these men appear before God’s throne. You have not directly dealt with the words in the text, the best we received was it is possible the Zion in this text is the heavenly Sion. We should not be dealing with these words with ifs, or but’s, or even maybes for that matter. Simple truth is these men report to heaven in these verses. Another simple truth is no Scripture directly informs us these men remain on the earth. Furthermore, the very next verse informs us an angel flies in the midst of heaven preaching the everlasting gospel to the souls that miss the Rapture. It is this angel, not the 144,000 that is charged with preaching the everlasting gospel, to all the sorry folks that will not qualify for the Rapture. You put the limit that only Paul’s converts will enjoy the Rapture, I on the other hand believe three separate groups will participate in the Rapture, and the 144,000 will be next to go. Christians and the Messianic Jews will be combined into one-fold, with one shepherd, the same day, and this will fulfill John 10: 16, which is the precept, or first time the Rapture is alluded to. When He comes, He will gather all that are His.
Daniel,
Apparently you did not read what I wrote. I explained the meaning of the sealing and redeeming of the 144,000. The reason you do not accept this is you do not recognize the Church is a new creation. It does not participate in prophecy. You do not recognize the difference between Israel and the Church. Peter, James, John, and Jude wrote nothing to the Church. They never mention the Rapture, they never mention the Church, the body of Christ. They never mention the believer’s identification with Christ in His death and resurrection or the operational power of the Spirit in the believer. They never mention being under grace rather than law. They wrote to Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom, which in the context of Revelation, is the everlasting gospel. Until one recognizes this, one cannot understand theology. There is little point in discussing theology with one who does not understand these things. I do not think you consider you might be wrong. You have cemented yourself into a false theology that mixes God’s program with Israel and the nations with His program for the Church. Your use of “shepherd” reveals this confusion. The Church is never identified as sheep and Jesus is never called Shepherd of the Church. That language is reserved for Israel, not the Church, not Gentiles. John 10.16 refers to Jews who will believe Jesus is the Messiah at His return (Romans 11.26).
It is not only possible Rev. 14: 1-5 speak about the heavenly Sion, it is the only possible meaning for these words. You still have not dealt directly with the words that put the 144,000 before God’s throne, redeemed from the earth. You stated these men are sealed with protection on the earth during the seven year tribulation, but these five verses clearly put these men in heaven as firstfruits to God, redeemed from the earth.
Daniel,
I answered what “redeemed from the earth” and “redeemed from mankind” means regarding the 144,000. I will not answer again until you explain why you do not recognize Paul’s unique apostleship, the differences in his ministry and the Twelve, the differences between the Church and Israel, God’s prophetic program and His Church program, the differences in language, the things I noted in the previous post. If you answer those issues, everything else is answered. They are foundational. If the foundation is sound, the superstructure is secure.
I know the risen Lord revealed the gospel of the uncircumcision to Paul, I also know these gospels are both valid even today. I know you say the everlasting gospel is no longer valid, but there is no Scripture canceling the original gospel. The men at the Jerusalem council agreed that Paul would go to the Gentiles, but the twelve would continue on with the Jews. And they only taught Jews, until years later when Peter tried to mingle with the original Christian church in Antioch. This attempt exposed Peter as one of the many Jews that were perverting Paul’s gospel, and sure enough near the end of these gentlemen’s lives, Paul had to jump up in Peter’s grill and in front of many, he had to chastise him concerning his hypocrisy. Peter was never a Christian as far as Scripture is concerned. So, His Church program did not cancel the everlasting gospel, but offered another gospel that any individual is eligible to believe. Peter was a law keeping Jew until he was crucified according to Scripture. The Christian gospel comes from Paul, because Jesus only revealed it to Paul. Just because we do not see eye to eye in all these matters does not change the truth that the 144,000 report to heaven after they are sealed, and Rev. 14: 1-5 provides all the proof we need to corroborate this truth. The Bible never says the 144,000 remain on the earth, but it surely teaches us they report to God’s throne and sing a song for God that no other men can learn, and only the elders that used to be men are present to witness this song, because the great multitude which no one can number who stand before God’s throne in chapter 7, which are the two folds that Jesus said He would join into one, and He will be the one shepherd. The Rapture will happen for three separate groups of people, the 144,000 law keeping Jews will be taken first, then the great multitude no one could number, will be given white robes, and with palms in our hands will with a loud voice say to our God, “Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb”. There are two groups that comprise the great multitude, the Messianic Jews, or the little flock, you know, the ones that Jesus told, I go to My Father’s house to prepare a place, I will come again to receive you unto Myself. These are words describing the Rapture for Jewish people that believe He was the Messiah, for a Jew today this gospel is valid. The other group believe the gospel Paul delivered to any person that chooses to believe. I show clearly the 144,000 go to heaven in Rev. 14: 1-5, where in the Bible does it clearly show these men participate in any activities on the earth. I know you will not be able to show any words from Scripture, because there simply are no words that keep the 144,000 earthbound, they are sealed and report directly to heaven, as Rev. 14: 1-5 clearly tells us. We will begin to align our understanding after the covenant is ratified, but until then, we will both teach the understanding that we possess today.
Daniel,
I’m glad you see a distinction between the gospel of the kingdom and Paul’s gospel, but Peter never perverted Paul’s gospel. The Bible gives no record of this. Peter ended the gospel of the kingdom in Acts 15.11. See my article, The Great Hinge. The whole source of confusion is failing to distinguish between God’s program to Israel and the nations and His program of the Church, the body of Christ. But you did not address the difference between God’s program to Israel and the nations and His program of the Church. For you, they are intertwined. The Church has no prophecy. It cannot participate in the seven years; it will not see the Beast. It is outside all that. Paul stated this many times. Everything Paul wrote was new doctrine. The 144,000 are Jews who believe the gospel of the kingdom. They are part of God’s prophetic program. In it, they are God’s firstfruits, the first redeemed from the earth and from men. They have this status to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom on earth. This is why they are sealed, which denotes identification and protection. There is no reason for God to seal them if He is going to take them immediately to heaven. That makes no sense. The Rapture is only for members of the Church. This is why Paul declared the Rapture a secret. This is why James, Peter, John, and Jude never mention it. This is why the Lord in His earthly ministry never mentioned it. John declared the 144,000 as οἱ ἠγορασμένοι ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς, redeemed from the earth and ἠγοράσθησαν ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων, redeemed from men. He used the proposition ἀπό rather than ἐκ, for the former emphasizes separation “away from.” This is not physical separation. John’s point is to distinguish them, their sealing, redemption, from those who will be sealed, protected by the Beast. They are God’s special agents on earth. Why is it you insist on mixing God’s programs? Why did you fail to address the other issues I noted?
I believe my 150-year-old King James Bible is infallible, you do not, that is our largest disagreement. I will not change any words my Bible recorded, but you feel free to change Bible words when it suits you, as you do with the day of Christ Paul told us about. Redeemed from the earth does mean these men will report to heaven to sing a song on harps before the throne of God. Just as the Old English Bible teaches us.
Daniel,
The KJV is a work of man, fallible. It is a good translation, but certainly not infallible. The translators added words not in the Greek text and left out words from the Greek text. In the case “the day of Christ” you mention, the manuscript evidence for that reading rather than “the day of the Lord” is weak. Such a reading also makes little sense to Paul’s point, to assure the Thessalonians that the troubles they were experiencing was not the Tribulation. Even the rendering “day of Christ” by the KJV translators is error. The text reads “the day of the Christ,” ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ Χριστοῦ. The article is important. The view the KJV is infallible reveals a lack of understanding about how we got our Bible, manuscript evidence, etc. Below is the manuscript evidence:
TEXT: “the day of the Lord has come”
EVIDENCE: Aleph(א) A B D* F G L P Psi 0278 81 104 1241 1739 1881 lat syr cop
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NRSV ESV NASV NIV NEB REB TEV CSB
CERTAINTY: –
NOTES: “the day of Christ has come”
EVIDENCE: D2 K 630 Maj
TRANSLATIONS: KJV NKJV CSBn
My understanding is God saw to it, and for more than two and a half centuries remained virtually unchanged, but since then Satan has succeeded in corrupting Scripture substantially. Men are not a reliable source; I believe God saw to it the correct words were used in our King James version. My old Bible was one of five hundred the U. S. Congress committed to Colorado in 1872. This Bible stands head and shoulders above any other Bible I have ever studied with, but I did get to compare it to a 1611 version, and these two versions seem to contain the same information. When I received it from my wife’s grandmother, 45+ years ago, it was a showpiece, pristine. It is my study Bible now, everything about this book is superior to today’s versions. So, I will stick with infallible. Greek is Greek to me, but I can sure understand most Old English and I believe God wants every person to be able to understand His plan for them. How is that possible if we have to rely on talking heads to correct our Bible? So, again, I’ll state, I will stick with infallible. As far as whether Paul meant the day of Christ, or the day of the Christ, or the day of the Lord, none of these phrases change the subject matter contained inside this single sentence; and that subject matter is our gathering together unto Him; we both know this is the Rapture.
Daniel,
Your statement reveals you do not understand how we got our Bible or how the KJV translators worked. They worked from Greek manuscripts. They were men. Greek was the universal language of Jesus’ day. Most of the quotations He made came from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. The Scriptures are God-breathed (2 Timothy 3.16-17). This applied to the autographs. Copies, from which all translations are made, contain errors. We have thousands of Greek manuscripts, in which there are hundreds of thousands of variant readings. By examining and comparing them, we have a reliable, but not infallible text. All the words in italics in the KJV were added. They are not in the Greek text. The variant readings are minor and do not affect the meaning or reliability of the text. The text is reliable; it is not infallible. Only the autographs were infallible. Numerous errors exist in the KJV but it is a reliable translation. Do you really believe God gave only English speaking people an infallible Bible? He did not give one to the Germans, French, Italians, Chinese, etc.? What God has done is give us thousands of manuscripts which every nation can use to produce a reliable translation for their own people in their own language. Do you think no one had a reliable Bible until 1611?
This like every topic we have jousted over, we will have to agree to disagree. I’m a yes, or no type of person, maybe is very rarely the outcome to a serious question I study. Maybe seems to be your go to option. This I say, because your answer to my question was “Now, I will admit it is possible Zion here is the heavenly Zion based on Hebrews 12: 22”. You could not tell from the words recorded in Rev. 14: 1-5. That is a maybe answer, with no clarity offered. These verses stand alone and simply need only the words from chapter 7 to complete their meaning. I would ask one more time, are the 144,000 Jews in Rev. 14: 1-5 in heaven, or not, the answer is very important, and maybe simply is not a decisive answer, and I do believe your readers deserve a yes, or a no.
Daniel,
Some things are definite yes and no. Other things are uncertain. I wrote the 144,000 minister on earth. They are not raptured. I wrote what sealing, redeeming, firstfruits meant. I wrote Zion is likely on earth based on how it is used most often in the Bible and based on the 144,000’s work. I wrote that Revelation is theater, full of scenes. Revelation 14 may be an extended scene. The 144,000 are in heaven. Verse 5 states the 144,000 are faultless before God’s throne. The text does not reveal when they come to heaven or when this scene takes place. Part of it may be at the beginning of the seven years and part of it after the Lord returns. This is how the seals work. I explained that the conjunction “and” often has a time sense. It may be that part of this scene occurs after Christ returns while the kingdom is being prepared—the seventy-five days of Daniel. Anyone who thinks a definite yes or no answer can be given to some of these things deceives himself. It seems you have not read what I wrote and are more interested in arguing than in understanding.
Joe, I know you track all conversations on this website. I would like to hear your honest opinion; are the 144,000 spoken about in Rev. 14: 1-5 in heaven, before the throne of God, or not?
Daniel,
Joe can answer but I already wrote the 144,000 are before God’s throne. Do not know why you are asking this unless you missed it. ??
I did not miss it; I did not mention it because you also say the text des not reveal when they come to heaven. Now it is possible to move forward. The text also mentions they are before God’s throne in verse 3. These five verses show clearly the 144,000 are the next group of people to appear before God’s throne. This is made clear in verses 3 and 4. Rev. 14: 3-4 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. The only beings present to hear their song is the four beasts and the elders, and we know they have been there for the past two thousand years. The great multitude no one could number, mentioned after the 144,000 are sealed in chapter 7, will join them shortly after they sing their song. See this is simple to understand, and there leaves no gray areas. You say Revelation is theater, I heartily disagree, these words are precise and mean exactly what they say. And as far as timing, the three angels that follow provide the timing for these events. The first angel will inform the people left on the earth that judgment has come, and he will also preach the everlasting gospel to them, because the gospel Paul preached will no longer be valid, the Rapture will effectively end Paul’s gospel, this is the judgment the first angel mentions. The 144,000 are already in heaven, and will never leave the Lamb, according to the text. This angel and the third angel provide the timing of the events unfolding in these verses, even the third angel speaks before the Beast assumes his nasty role in Scripture, but only just before. Rev. 14: 9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of the torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. The timing is revealed in these verses, a person only needs to recognize it.
Daniel,
Time to end this conversation. You seem obsessed with it. Your claims are without Scriptural basis. You claim the 144,000 go to heaven immediately after they are sealed. Scripture to support: none. You claim three groups are raptured. Scripture to support: none. Paul wrote the rapture was a secret. You say it was not. I go with Paul. The only point for sealing the 144,000 is to identify and protect them. They do not need identification or protection in heaven. They do need it on earth. I had forgotten this verse, but Revelation 9.4 disproves your argument about the 144,000 going to heaven after they are sealed. One cannot determine precise chronology or timing based on the seals, trumpets, bowls, woes. Your theology mixes Israel with the Church, God’s prophetic program with His Church program, which was a secret. The Church has no prophecy. As long as these programs are mixed, confusion will reign.
Common sense tells a person these three angels have a timestamp attached to their appearance, and that timestamp is at the beginning of the antichrists 42 months. This is simple to deduce from the messages they relay. Do you believe this is incorrect, or correct? And yes, I am definitely obsessed with understanding the truth to the best of my ability. I gave you mostly Scripture, not talking points. I will not bother you anymore.
Daniel,
Revelation covers 7 years. If words mean anything it has two halves of 1260 days, 42 months. The 144,000 are sealed at the beginning. They remain on earth, Revelation 9.4. God protects the 2 witnesses for the first half the 7 years. God protects by sealing the 144,000 for the entire 7 years. This is straightforward and clear. Again, if you do not mix God’s program regarding Israel and the nations with His Church program confusion vanishes. Mixing them results in confusion and contradictions. God is not the author of confusion.
You proved my point again; you mostly use your own talking points to answer questions. Rev. 9: 4. speaks of the remnant of Israel, and all that listened to the first angel’s message, and did not take the mark of the beast. Everything recorded has time attached to it, it is our job to try to understand God’s timing. The Bible only directly tells us this angel is the one to preach the everlasting gospel to the folks that miss the Rapture. Show us a verse were the 144,000 preach the everlasting gospel, or if there is a group of them, please record them for us, and begin to use Scripture instead of talking points. If you so hate my reasoning than keep this post to yourself, and I will leave you alone.
Daniel,
You state the 144,000 go to heaven immediately after they are sealed. What Scripture states this? Why seal them to go to heaven? What is the purpose of sealing? Revelation 9.4 states locusts from the Abyss attack those without God’s seal on their foreheads. They attack men and women who are on earth except those with God’s seal on their foreheads. The only ones identified as sealed in their foreheads are the 144,000 (Revelation 7.4). This means the 144,000 are on earth, not in heaven. You state there are multiple raptures and that the rapture was not a secret. Paul says it was. Your quarrel is not with me but with the Scriptures.
The precept concerning the Rapture is the same verse that gives us the precept concerning the two gospels. Then it is added to later in the same gospel of John. Paul gives us many words concerning the Rapture; the truth our bodies are changed, and this will happen in the blink of an eye. Please show Scripture that Paul stated the Rapture is a secret. There will be one Rapture, containing three separate groups. The two groups Jesus informed us about in John 10: 16, and of course the 144,000 which will be the first group to appear before God’s throne. The prophecy about the two days of the Son of man recorded in Luke 17: 22-37 is when the Rapture will be performed.
Daniel,
Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15.51, “Behold, I tell you a secret” and went on saying believers would not die but would be changed in the blink of an eye. This had never been revealed. It is a single event. Paul gave more details in 1 Thessalonians 4.13-18. It applies only to the Church, the body of Christ. It does not include Jews under God’s prophetic, covenant program. Old Testament believers, those who believed the gospel of the kingdom, those who die in the Tribulation are resurrected at the start of the Millennial kingdom according to Daniel 12. See my article, The Resurrectiion. Again, mixing God’s Church program with the prophetic (John 10.16; Luke 17:22-37) results in confusion and error.
Luke 17: 22-37 is about the Son of man being revealed up with the lightning on the first of the two days mentioned in this continuous prophecy, the second day in this prophecy, the taken, are Redeemed and snatched from this planet, not by simply disappearing as most Christians believe, because this filthy rag we possess today will not go to heaven with us, we leave these bodies, or carcasses, is the word Matthew chose to use, we leave for the birds. Jesus told this prophecy on His final trip to Jerusalem, and when He came to Jerusalem He added the sister prophecy, the Olivet Discourse. Just compare the info and you understand Jesus was adding to His earlier prophecy given in Luke 17. Keep comparing the Lord’s words to the Lord’s words and you realize the two days given in the prophecy recorded in Luke, are the same two days Matthew recorded for us in Matt. 24: 15-28, both prophecies end with the same words. I know you do not agree with most of what I wrote, but am I incorrect about these being sister prophecies, or are they separate in your mind? I also would like to ask if you see Luke 17: 22-37 as a two day prophecy?
Daniel,
Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are sister prophecies. I do not see two days mentioned or the redeemed being raptured. Jesus’ discussion on “days” meant His time on earth, the Tribulation, and His return, God’s prophetic program involving Israel and the nations. The one “taken” is taken to death or judgment. The one who remains, remains to see Christ return, to enter the kingdom. The Church is not here. Nor the Rapture. A is not non-A. Something cannot be a secret and not a secret. Behold, I tell you a secret (1 Corinthians 15.51). Believe the Scriptures.
Luke 17: 22-37 is literally only about the two days of the Son of man. On the first of these two days to come the Son of man will be revealed, and folks in Jerusalem are told to leave in verses 30,31. The second day begins in verse 34 with the words ” I tell you, in that night. Why is this concept so hard for Christians to understand? When you compare these sister prophecies, common sense shows a person, the son of perdition will commit the abomination of desolation, earlier in the same day the Son of man will be revealed. People in the Luke prophecy are told to leave after the Son of man is revealed, but in the prophecy recorded in Matthew, people are told to leave after the son of perdition is revealed. This is not hard to understand if a person simply uses common sense.
Daniel,
The same problem is here as in Revelation, thinking in terms of a precise chronology. The Jews did not think like that. The prophecies are jumbled together, not in a specific time sequence. Verses 30-31 in Luke are the same as Matthew 24.15-20. Verse 30 is a generalized timeframe. Is “night” a literal 12 hour period or did Jesus mean the darkness of the Tribulation? How do you understand save life, lose life, lose life, save life?
Don,
I love the way you explain how Israel, Gentiles (the Nations), and the Church are totally distinct, and that the Church is a completely new creation. I have never heard it put that way, and you are so right. This way of thinking is also a great antidote to the dangerous belief in Replacement Theology: that the Church has replaced Israel. Thank you so much for that insight. I am really looking forward to receiving your book. God bless you and your wonderful work. Happy holidays and many blessings…Dean
Dean,
Thank you for your kind words. May God bless you and your family over the holiday season.
In Luke 17: 34, night is a literal 12 hour period of time, I apologize for not directly answering the questions you asked. Lot’s wife did not believe, and for this cause, she turned from her path, which in turn resulted in her death. She turned in an effort to save her own life, and that is my best effort to answer the second question you offered. You have stated straight out Paul told us the Rapture was a secret. Paul did elaborate extensively about the Rapture, but Jesus gave the little flock the precept of the Rapture while He was on the earth. If these words are not about the Rapture in your understanding, please tell us what they do mean. John 14: 1-3 Let not your hearts be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Daniel,
The Rapture was a secret. It is a single event. This is straightforward and clear. As such, there are not other “raptures” as some try to make Matthew 24.40-41. The same is true of John 14.1-3. All God’s promises to Jews are earthly. They have no heavenly promises. No Jew ever thought of dying and going to heaven. What Jesus was saying was He was preparing a place for them to be enjoyed on earth. Heaven is the only place of safe-keeping at present. Saving life, losing life, etc. has to do specifically with taking the Beast’s mark. One who takes it saves his life, but loses eternal life. One who rejects it most likely will be executed, but gain eternal life.
So, literal words that Jesus spoke are not to be taken literally. The Jews knew full well where the Father’s house was when Jesus spoke those words, and your understanding of His words are the Jews received no heavenly promises. He literally told the little flock He was going to take them to heaven in John 14: 1-3. There is no wonder we do not understand Scripture the same. Common sense is better than talking points. You plainly state the Rapture was a secret, but the Scripture you choose to defend your statement, is not a precept, but is in reality adding to what Jesus told His disciples in John 14: 1-3. You should not blatantly change the meaning of the words Jesus spoke, and claim He never gave them a heavenly promise, because He clearly did in John 14: 1-3.
Daniel,
Do I change the meaning of words? Do you think the Day of the Lord is one day? According to the prophets it includes the Tribulation and the Kingdom. You not only change the meaning of words, you deny they mean what they say. Paul wrote, “Behold, I tell you a secret.” You declare the Rapture was not a secret, that Jesus revealed it. You make either Jesus or Paul a liar. Do you find Israel with a heavenly destiny? Is that in the Bible? The problem you have is you will not believe the Scriptures.
Authorities are now considering how to bring peace to the middle east, the lying document they come up with will fulfill the prophecy Daniel recorded for us. I have to wonder, what will your response be when this happens. I believe every word any King James Bible has recorded is infallible. I simply do not believe your version, but I have a mind of my own. I do not believe either Jesus, or Paul was a liar. I believe you made Paul’s words seem like a precept, but in truth they merely expand on the precepts Jesus told us about.
Daniel,
One last time: it doesn’t matter what peace treaty is signed. It has nothing to do with prophecy. The Church is outside prophecy. All the end-time events described in Daniel, Revelation, Gospels occur after God removes His Church. The KJV is not God-breathed. It is a translation. My version is another translation, but is more accurate than the KJV. I have much better tools than they and a much better understanding of theology. They knew nothing of Paul’s unique apostleship. Paul wrote what the ascended Christ told him. You can believe the Bible or continue clinging to your private theology. If the latter, you will be disappointed.
Hi Don,
I have used Romans 10:9 in sharing the Gopspel for years now. In this article, you pair it with 1st Corinthians 15:1-4 but in Romans 10:9, there is no mention of the Crucifixion. Since I have come to understand the Gospel of the Grace of God, I have some regrets that I have used Romans 10:9; feeling that I have left the hearers with an incomplete message all those years, but here I see you using it. I need to ask you why you think Paul left out the Crucifixion in Romans 10:9 and if you think my sharing it was indeed an incomplete message. Thank you. The Lord is using your teaching in my life.
Francis,
Thank you. Romans 9-11 specifically concerns Israel. The main point Paul is emphasizing is faith and God’s faithfulness. Romans 10.9 states God raised Christ from the dead. The crucifixion is assumed in this.
Hello. What do you think of this?
John 10:16 “And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.”
DJ,
I’m not sure what your question is but the “other sheep” are Jews that will be saved in the Tribulation.