1,138 thoughts on “Jesus vs. Paul”

1. Ledger October 28, 2016 at 2:58 pm

   I would have to say you, and many of the Christianity; Pauline Kool aid drinking are the same road to destucrion, as I am.

   You said it yourlself; Paul taught a differant gospel than what Jesus or his disciples taught. Now, what was Jesus warning? If anyone come to teaching another Jesus (doctrine-gosple), not to listen to them. I’m amazed, how Jesus own words can be pushex aside by a man who doctrine is secreit and revealed by an abboration, who claimed to be Jesus. Foregive me if I chose to dublt Paul’s claim.

   Please excuse any typos

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   1. doctrine Post authorOctober 28, 2016 at 4:20 pm

      Ledger,
      It was Paul who warned about anyone teaching another gospel (Galatians 1.6-9). Paul was chosen by the risen Christ and directly taught by Him, even as Moses had been (Galatians 1.1, 12, 15-16). To reject Paul is to reject the risen Christ and His salvation.

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      1. Chelsie Gannaway January 17, 2020 at 10:48 pm

         Why then would JESUS (after His resurrection) command His disciples to “Go and preach the good news” if He (being the all knowing) would provide a different gospel later to Paul? JESUS absolutely warned of false teachers and false doctrines not just Paul.

         Also when asking the apostles/disciples who they thought He was.. It was Peter who answered that He was the messiah in which JESUS said that He would build HIS church on this proclamation of Peters… which would be both telling of future plans of church doctrine and foundation of truth in HIS identity.

         I am the truth, the way, the life…
         That’s speaking on identity not what He did.
         It is JESUS who is MY teacher, not Paul ~Matthew 23
         Personally it is both WHO He was/is AND what He did for us.
         Blessings be with you in truth.

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         1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 18, 2020 at 8:48 am

            Chelsie,
            Jesus came to fulfill the promises God gave the prophets (Romans 15.8). Those promises included being a light to the Gentiles (Isaiah 42.6, 49.6). But this promise required the Jews to accept the Messiah, which they refused to do. The Lord knew they would but He gave them an opportunity to fulfill this role. The Jews looked for their kingdom in which the Messiah would rule on earth. That is what the “gospel of the kingdom” was all about and why all Jesus’ parables concern this earthly kingdom. But the kingdom could not come when you reject the King. Because Israel rejected their King, God responded in mercy rather than judgment and saved Paul to bring Gentiles to Himself. He gave Paul a gospel of pure grace. No longer were works required. Christ had done all the work. One only need believe that Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. Pure grace. This is why Paul called his gospel a secret (Ephesians 6.19). And in lieu of national Israel, Paul became the light of the Gentiles (Acts 13.46-48). God respects man’s will and gave Israel an opportunity. They failed. But God loved the Gentiles and saved Paul to bring Gentiles to Christ. But God has not forgotten Israel. One day they will repent and recognize Jesus as the Messiah. When that occurs God will fulfill all His promises to them.

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            1. Chelsie January 28, 2020 at 12:23 pm

               I disagree with you, again referencing Paul’s writings as you are doing in your message directly above, is like proving Paul’s teachings with Paul’s teachings..

               Matthew 5:17-18 and Matthew 19:17 (heaven and earth have not passed) along with many MANY of JESUS’ other teachings explaining how to get into the Kingdom.. the will of my father, keeping the commandments, etc.. this is not just for Jews, please read
               John 10:27
               Think about the great commission AFTER the resurrection told to ALL of the present apostles/disciples
               “Go and preach(teach) TO ALL NATIONS” Mark 16:14-20

               Again back to my first question, why would JESUS commission this just to turn around and provide Paul with a different “my gospel” in his own words confirming that it was different than the other apostles and our Lord JESUS Christ’s only a short 3-5 (debatable on exact timing) years later. It’s shows even in the scriptures where Paul complained about the other “super apostles” again his words, not supporting his doctrines and gospel. People that actually walked with and were trained by the Messiah himself disagreed by accounts of Paul himself with his teachings. We must not dismiss things such as this.

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               1. Chelsie January 28, 2020 at 12:54 pm

                  Just to clarify because I could not edit..It is not one without the other..

                  NOT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ME “LORD, LORD” WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. (Matthew 7:21)

                  And later:

                  For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then HE WILL REWARD EACH ONE ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. (Matthew 16:27)

                  It is also interesting to note what James (the brother of Yeshua) had to say about this subject. (It is reasonable to assume that he would be quite familiar with Yeshua’s views.)

                  My brothers, what good is it for someone to say that he has faith if his actions do not prove it? (James 2:14)

                  You see, then, that it is by his actions that a person is put right with God, and not by his faith alone. (James 2:24)

                  Answer for yourself: You must put your faith as a Christian in someone or something; who are you going to believe…James, Yeshua’ hand-picked Pastor of the church Yeshua said he was to build, and Yeshua who agree on the issue of salvation or Paul who contradicts both them and the other Apostolic writings in the New Testament?

                  One more passage just for good measure:

                  So then, as the body without the spirit is dead, also faith without actions is dead. (James 2:26)

                  We must understand what faith truly means to the authors of the scripture when used in context to the message intended. Without actions, faith is dead, therefore faith is not ALONE.. God’s commandments existed before Moses.. look at the garden of Eden, Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah, etc..
                  God is the beginning and the end, the same then today and always.. remember again Matthew 5:17-18 and Matthew 19:17..

                  *Matthew 7:13

                  King James Bible
                  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

                  New International Version
                  “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

                  -faith ALONE is pretty broad

                  Blessings :)

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                  1. Patty Clifton October 13, 2020 at 4:08 pm

                     I am so grateful for your three responses. THEY clarify in a nutshell, why I cannot believe in Paul’s teachings. Thank you for sharing these thoughts!

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                     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 13, 2020 at 4:32 pm

                        Patty,
                        So let’s be clear. You do not believe Christ died for your sins or rose from the dead. You do not believe that His work on the cross and His resurrection saves. How do you think one is saved?

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                        1. John R. November 22, 2022 at 4:18 am

                           Why are you suddenly questioning Patty’s belief? What use is it to you? Isn’t Patty’s faith between Patty and God? This veiled doctrine politics, belief shaming and “hustling for souls” is beneath everything Jesus’ life, faith, obedience and sacrifice stands for.

                           Paul was doing God’s Will by taking over the Christian faith. He couldn’t beat ’em so he joined ’em. That he distorted the Word, was a trap for those who do not study in truth, but in belief. Never fear, God is mighty, the Father knows best! The integrity of the Word was kept by Paul telling us himself that he is a shape shifting liar, so that we would know to avoid his teachings.

                           Another example of this built-in biblical self-correction (and of God’s unfathomable wisdom) is that John makes no mention of the communion during the Last Supper. The only bread and wine are given to his betrayer. The Lord makes it easy to see what to avoid. Ego ever demonstrates when a brain is in charge instead of the spirit. That is why it is the meek who shall inherit the earth.

                           We can’t watch Jesus fearlessly dive off of the cliff of faith and obedience, come to the surface three days later, then stand up at the top with the preacher saying, “Look! See? Jesus proved it can be done. All we have to do to please the Father is believe that Jesus jumped for US.” No, you too must leave materialism behind by jumping off of the cliff of faith, joining Jesus in obedience to the spirit within you which speaks directly to the Father.

                           May Christians become followers of Jesus again instead of his worshipers, that we might once again do ONLY the bidding of our Father who sent him. Amen.

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                           1. doctrine Post authorNovember 22, 2022 at 8:44 am

                              John R.,
                              Patty wrote she did not believe Paul’s writings. Paul declared one is saved by believing Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. I asked how she thought one was saved. It appears you do not believe the gospel either, that you have created your own way of salvation. The Scriptures are not “veiled doctrine politics, belief shaming, etc.” We must come the way God has revealed. God accepted Abel’s sacrifice, but rejected Cain’s.
                           2. Joe November 22, 2022 at 10:01 am

                              John R,

                              How are we saved? What is the gospel?
                  2. Bob January 13, 2021 at 12:30 pm

                     Your first point here is Matthew 7:21. Let’s define the Bible by the Bible. The actual translation is “but those who do the will of my Father”
                     So in John 6:29 and John 6:40 Jesus defines the work and will of the Father. Jesus himself days these things. The work of God is to believe on the one he has sent. The will of God is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes has eternal life.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 13, 2021 at 12:45 pm

                        Bob,
                        What is important is to define what “believe” means. In other words what was one to believe for salvation? What did Jews during Jesus’ earthly ministry believe for salvation? Does one believe the same thing today or something different?

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                        1. Lori Eldridge December 16, 2021 at 6:15 pm

                           Don, It took me most of the day but I just read most of the comments in this thread up to this date as I’m dealing with the same responses elsewhere. Thanks for your patience and attempts to try and spread the truth about Paul’s Gospel. It’s sad to see that so many either don’t read their bibles or misunderstood what it said and are so ready to discount the message of the ONLY Apostle to the Gentiles. If they throw out Paul’s teachings and especially HIS gospel, then “they have believed in vain” (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

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                           1. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2021 at 8:31 am

                              Lori,
                              Thank you. God has used this particular article to reveal much. I never knew there was such opposition to Paul and his gospel. Those who reject Paul are religious but do not know God. To reject Paul means one rejects Christ’s salvation alone for our sins: His death, burial, and resurrection. So much confusion when salvation is so simple.
                           2. steve May 12, 2023 at 7:29 am

                              I find it interesting that if you use both names of paul in the Bible, saul and paul and you search “What names appear most in Scripture you find paul/saul at #8 mentioned more time in Scripture than Abraham (235 times) and Joseph (248 times), Why is it than John very seldom mentioned his name in his writings? Everyone of paul’s epistles starts with guess what….”paul!” If paul were a true apostle of CHRIST JESUS, if anyone claims to be a follower of CHRIST JESUS would they mention their name in any conversation with someone they are witnessing to? paul’s grace doctrine is one of the reasons we have such a “watered-down” church system today. GOD’S truth is CHRIST JESUS and CHRIST JESUS alone. Look no farther! Revelations Chapter chapters 2-3 in the letters to the 7 churches “he who overcomes will be saved” is stated over and over again. “He who keeps my works” is also stated over and over again. This is CHRIST JESUS talking. It says nothing about faith alone.
                              My mom, bless her soul told me 20 years ago that the church she grew up in taught them that the book of Revelation was a “code” book and they very seldom read it. WOW!
                              Today’s religious system is so polluted and watered down it has helped to create the society in have now. Many buildings are teaching you can pretty much do whatever your heart desires and you are covered by grace. Millions are being led astray by man’s ways and not FATER GOD’S. In peace and love in CHRIST JESUS.
                           3. doctrine Post authorMay 12, 2023 at 8:05 am

                              Steve,
                              One either believes the Bible or one does not. All the apostles recognized Paul as God’s apostle. Paul mentioned his name because he was under attack by Jews and other false teachers. It was for this reason that he had to constantly defend his apostleship. The other apostles faced nothing like the persecution Paul experienced. Paul’s teaching of grace is not a “watered-down” church system. You cannot force people to accept Christ, to love God, to obey God. God is love. He wishes us to obey Him because we love Him, not because we are forced. Paul answered your objections in Romans 6. The book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Church. The Church is never mentioned in it. The “churches” of Revelation 2-3 are Jewish congregations, not members of the Church, the body of Christ. The Church must be removed before the events described in Revelation begin. Paul stated this several times in his letters. Those who see the Church in Revelation err in understanding the Scriptures. I urge you to read Paul’s letters for in them is all of God’s teaching specific to the Church. It is only through believing Paul’s gospel that one has salvation and comes to Christ (1 Corinthians 15.1-4).
                  3. Vicki Magee August 13, 2023 at 9:02 am

                     I believe with Paul, it was assume that we would follow the teachings of Jesus. He mentions many times about the workers of iniquity and contrast the fruit of the spirit and the works of the flesh.

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               2. doctrine Post authorJanuary 28, 2020 at 12:56 pm

                  Chelsie,
                  Your objection is based on misunderstanding two things. God’s purpose was for the 12 to be His representatives to the nations (Gentiles). But for this to be fulfilled, Israel had to repent. This is why the Lord told the disciples to go to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the other parts of the world (Acts 1.7). Notice this commission was an ever-widening circle. But Israel refused to repent. For this reason, the 12 could not fulfill the “Great Commission.” Therefore, God saved Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11.13) to fulfill God’s purpose of evangelizing Gentiles. The other thing is that everything Paul taught he received directly from the risen Christ. So the Lord gave him information the 12 had no understanding about. In Jesus’ earthly ministry, He ministered only to Jews (with a couple exceptions), under the Law. In His heavenly ministry, the Lord gave information to Paul about the Church, which is mostly Gentile, and is not under the Law, but under grace (Romans 6.14). So we have to distinguish these two if we are to understand the Scriptures. Read 2 Peter 3.15-16. Peter recognized Paul was God’s man, that his letters were Scripture, and that Paul wrote things difficult to understand (because they concerned a whole new program—the Church, the body of Christ).

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                  1. Chelsie January 29, 2020 at 11:28 am

                     First I want to truly commend you for having this conversation with me, iron does sharpen iron and it’s a good thing to have healthy dialogue in the ones that are called out body of Christ..so I give my sincere gratitude to you. This will be my last message so please just hear me out and read the things I have shared with you below thoroughly.

                     Again you are using Paul’s writings to prove Paul.. besides the Acts and Peter but that’s really off topic as of right now.
                     So you are basically saying that the resurrection and Great Commission was only meant for the Jews then God had to save Paul (which he himself was the ONLY witness to btw; his conversion) for this “new” gospel so “he” “Paul” could save the gentiles?! So then our headship would be Paul not JESUS?? Sound right to you? Doesn’t to me..
                     Yes you are correct when JESUS came in the flesh there was a divine purpose for Israel.. but that doesn’t take away the fact that He also knew His divine purpose in His resurrection. Let’s look at His word..

                     *in Luke 24:44
                     JESUS said to them, “These are the words I
                     spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

                     46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

                     49And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you. But remain in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

                     -may I bring your attention to two things.. 1st REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS (repent from what if it’s only faith based?) (forgive what if it’s only faith based?)(JESUS paved the way and IS the ONLY way)

                     2nd ALL NATIONS, BEGINNING in Jerusalem
                     (This obviously shows it was not meant ONLY for Jerusalem)

                     See the problem is everyone wants to be right when it’s is only Gods word that is solid truth and right.. JESUS IS/was the word of GOD..
                     *John 1:1; John 1:14

                     Am I the one to say that Paul was intentional with his error and understanding (considering he was a fairly new convert himself that wasn’t taught by the Lord in person like the others) no I will not say that. But I will most definitely say the gospel that we are supposed to adhere to is NOT faith alone and that’s it, nothing else. Do you not ask for forgiveness? Do you teach about sin and the commandments or go to a church that does? Why so if we are not under the law (lawlessness)?

                     *Matthew 7:21-23
                     21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS!’

                     *1 John 2:3
                     3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

                     *Revelation 22:14
                     14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

                     It is by faith AND works (keeping the commandments, repentance, forgiveness, good fruits etc) please brother don’t be lead off on the broad path of faith ALONE.

                     I share this with you not to simply debate or argue with you.. I can only pray that you see my genuine attempt to just share truth with you. It is of no benefit for me to merely be right… I pray for you and me both to have the understanding that God intends.

                     God bless you

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                     1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 29, 2020 at 1:09 pm

                        Chelsie,
                        Jesus came for the Jews to fulfill the promises made to the fathers (Romans 15.8). He told His disciples not to go to Gentiles (Matthew 10.5). After He was resurrected, He gave the “great commission” to fulfill Israel’s role as defined by passages such as Micah 4.2 and Zechariah 8.20-23. But these prophesies could not be fulfilled if Israel rejected the Messiah. I do not know why you say I only use Paul to prove Paul. Luke confirmed Paul. Peter confirmed Paul. All the other apostles recognized Paul as God’s man. So when you say this, you are rejecting their testimony. You say Paul was not taught personally by Jesus but Paul says he was. He wrote he received his gospel directly from Christ and many revelations from him afterwards. Do you also reject the prophets when they wrote, “the word of the Lord came to me?” If you reject Paul, you reject Jesus. You seem to be saying you do not believe Paul because you only believe the words of Jesus in His earthly ministry. If this is so, you must also reject every prophet, and all the other writings. And how do you know you can trust what is written in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? I could say you’re using them to prove Jesus but who confirms them? I would encourage you to believe Paul’s gospel: that Christ died for your sins and rose from your justification. If you trust in Christ’s work for you, you will understand these things. We are saved by God’s grace, not by our works.

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                        1. Rodney Shipley July 29, 2020 at 12:44 am

                           So, I think you might be confused in thinking that we believe that the law is what gives us salvation, but that is not what is being endorsed. Christ death and Resurrection is what gives us the “opportunity” for salvation, as we were once Gentiles.An extension to what was offered to the Jew first. But to say that Paul was teaching that we are saved by “grace” alone is anything but true, and that teaching would be against Christ teachings.So there is no way that Paul was teaching “grace” alone without obedience to the law as well. It would in fact be a contradiction in the bible. Again, review what Chelsie posted. The law was provided not only to show us our sin, but to show us the way to the ‘Father’s will”. God would have had to change his will, yet he says he does not change. Malachi 3:6: Christ also said that HE does not change. Hebrews 13:8. Futhermore, if Christ and God are in agreement, what do you think the answer about keeping the law as a follower of Christ means?

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                           1. doctrine Post authorJuly 29, 2020 at 8:58 am

                              Rodney,
                              You seem to think that following Christ means following what Christ said in His earthly minsitry. But Christ in His earthly minsitry came to fulfil Israel’s covenant promises. Following Christ today means to follow the teaching the ascended Christ gave to Paul, which he called revelation and secrets. Everything Paul wrote, he received by direct revelation from the risen Christ (except when he explicitly stated otherwise). Paul stated in Ephesians 2.8-9 that we are save by the grace through the faith. The Mosaic Law plays no part in Christianity. Paul wrote we are not under the Law but are under grace (Romans 6.14). This is wholly different from Christ’s earthly ministry. The risen Christ began a new program with Paul, the Church, even as He began a new program with Abraham, Israel. What Paul received from the Lord and taught was new. Unless one understands this, one cannot live the Christian life.
                        2. Adam November 26, 2020 at 9:26 am

                           There is none righteous. No not one… All our righteousness are like filthy rags. It only goes to reason that one cannot do enough works to reach the mark to have eternal life. If so then Christ died in vain.. The gospel of the Kingdom had to be taught to Israel because Christ had not died for our sins and rose from dead yet.. After the ressurection the gospel of grace came to the entire world whereby all men must be saved.. romans 10:9-10

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                           1. doctrine Post authorNovember 26, 2020 at 11:03 am

                              Adam,
                              Before Paul, both works and faith were required for salvation. This is clear from numerous passages, e.g., animals sacrifices were works. They were what God required. If they were mixed with faith, then they were efficacious for the individual. In the Gospels, Christ told the young ruler to keep the commandments for eternal life. He said that if one did not forgive others, God would not forgive him. Water baptism was also required for salvation. All these were works. But we also see Him telling the paralytic when He saw his faith that his sins were forgiven. So, throughout the Scriptures, until Paul, faith and works were required. But Paul taught only faith was needed. He taught that if one believed Christ died for his sins and rose from the dead, that was sufficient. This was why Paul stated his gospel was a secret (Ephesians 6.19). This was why the leaders at Jerusalem quarreled with Paul at the Council (Acts 15). They knew nothing of salvation by faith alone. Please see my article, The Great Hinge.
                           2. Fredrik March 21, 2023 at 6:29 am

                              A typical example of how Saul from Tarsus aka Paul is twisting the message. I for one have come to the conclusion that “Paul” is the one to beware of:

                              “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”/ Matthew 7:15

                              This article proves this without a shadow of doubt as I see it:

                              https://youtu.be/9CnMUfA-7B8
                           3. doctrine Post authorMarch 21, 2023 at 9:06 am

                              Fredrik,
                              Apparently, you did not read the article. Those who oppose Paul, oppose Christ. One cannot know or follow Christ if one opposes Paul, for Paul has the message of salvation, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4, given to him by the ascended Lord (Galatians 1.11-12).
                        3. Follow the ancient path June 10, 2021 at 7:41 pm

                           Paul said he saw Jesus, out in the wilderness, after Jesus’ ascention. Jesus had already said he eouldnt come back until the end, and if anyone says they saw hom then thry were lying. Why would Jesus spend over three years teaching the true apostles the law and the true way to eternity, only to “appear” to Paul (an unrepentant sinner) and endow him with this totally opposite gospel? Jesus already warned us about anyone who claims to see Him after His ascention. Also, Paul was under Talmudic law (as a pharisee), not the Mosaic law. In the letter to the Ephesians in revelation, The ephisians were commended for not listening to Paul (those who say they are apostles but are not, and do lie). Only Paul fits this discription. We were told, by Jesus, several times to keep the Commandments, Paul said they didnt matter anymore. You can either follow Messiah, or you can follow Paul, but you cannot do both.

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                           1. doctrine Post authorJune 11, 2021 at 10:18 am

                              Follow the ancient path,
                              Those who make statements such as yours identify themselves as enemies of Christ, those of whom Peter warned: “And consider the patience of our Lord is salvation, even as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him wrote to you, as also in all the epistles, when he speaks in them about these things, in which are some things difficult to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as also the other Scriptures to their own destruction (2 Peter 3.15-16). You have twisted the Scriptures as Peter wrote and are on the path of destruction. I urge you to believe the gospel, that Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) and come to know the living God.
                           2. Vicki Magee August 13, 2023 at 9:10 am

                              I don’t believe Paul would have suffered the way he did throughout his ministry if he hadn’t met the risen Christ. He was too much of a Jew and a legal list. Remember, he was throwing Christians and holding their coats while they were stoned.
                        4. Isaac September 18, 2022 at 8:24 am

                           Who are the “Jews”?

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                           1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 18, 2022 at 12:23 pm

                              Isaac,
                              Jews are non-Gentiles. Jews are descendants of Jacob. The terms “Jew,” “Israel,” “Hebrew” refer to these descendants.
                     2. Michael March 1, 2020 at 12:08 pm

                        I was raised within the evangelical Pentecostal movement. In contrast I ended up at a Lutheran University where I was exposed to the scholarly study of scripture. I could see clearly that these very contradictions had lead even ordained professors to have faith only in tradition not truly in Hashem or Yeshua.

                        That was in my late teens and early twenties. For more that 20 years I’ve struggled to find the truth. I see the doctrine of Paul as foreign to the truth, it’s clearly based on Roman beliefs built on a background of Judaism. That’s Paul in a nutshell.

                        What if Hashem is awaiting a reverse exodus, where Christians unlearn Paul’s Romanism and embrace true Judaism, not the “anyone but Jesus can be Messiah” Judaism of today. True Judeo-Messianism that Yeshua taught.

                        I read the conclusion of this article and am astonished at the resolution that Jesus was for Jews and Paul is for Gentiles because Paul says Jesus gave him a secret message. Kinda reminds me of Joseph Smith.

                        I just want to know Hashem. Seeking and questioning is having a relationship with the Lord. Yeshua is my King and I follow him as did David’s Mighty Warriors follow their king. I’d love to connect with other seekers, let me know your thoughts.

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                        1. doctrine Post authorMarch 1, 2020 at 12:46 pm

                           Michael,
                           If you want to know Christ, you must go through Paul. There is no salvation apart from his gospel—that Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification (1 Corinthians 15.1-4; Romans 1.16-17). Peter told the Jews at the Council they had to be saved through Paul’s gospel (Acts 15.11). He wrote the Jews that Paul’s letters were Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16). Paul’s gospel is the only way of salvation for Jews and Gentiles. All other paths are false.

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                           1. Eric September 27, 2020 at 11:20 pm

                              Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

                              Be wary of making Paul an idol before the Lord.
                           2. doctrine Post authorSeptember 28, 2020 at 8:36 am

                              Eric,
                              Paul exalted Jesus Christ more than any person in the Bible. The greatest danger of neglect of Christ is to neglect Paul’s doctrines. Most churches rarely mention Paul and thereby dishonor Christ.
                           3. Nicody March 11, 2021 at 6:43 pm

                              Wow, do you realize that your statements: “If you what to know Christ, you must go through Paul. There is no salvation apart from his gospel -…” is heredical? Jesus clearly states. John 14:6 “Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
                           4. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2021 at 7:25 pm

                              Nicody,
                              How do you think one is saved? Do you know what Paul’s gospel is?
                           5. nicody March 12, 2021 at 10:22 am

                              “Nicody,
                              How do you think one is saved? Do you know what Paul’s gospel is?” The better question is: Do YOU know? Are YOU a child of God?” Do you realize that God is who saves, not Paul?
                              I notice that you have been at this for a very long time. I wonder why? Are you just here to create controversy? Or are you genuine in your beliefs? Actually, you don’t have to answer me. These are questions you can just answer to yourself and maybe repent and turn to Jesus. That is if you know what repent is and why you need to repent.
                              I for one, will not be returning to your site as I am not getting my “BREAD” here.
                           6. doctrine Post authorMarch 12, 2021 at 11:23 am

                              Nicody,
                              Since you will not answer the questions, it appears you are not saved and do not know what Paul’s gospel is. If you are saved, why would you not answer these questions? A true Christian would happily answer.
                           7. Brock Lambert December 1, 2021 at 10:50 am

                              If you want to know Christ, you must go through Paul? I disagree.
                           8. doctrine Post authorDecember 1, 2021 at 2:08 pm

                              Brock,
                              How do you think one knows Christ?
                           9. Isaac September 18, 2022 at 8:48 am

                              OMG! You must go thru Paul???? Are you kidding me??? Do you see what your writing?

                              Truly, this website should be called false doctrine dot org

                              This guy is putting Paul above the Son of God, the Messiah. I can’t believe the delusions here.

                              Jesus forewarned his followers of false prophets who will come. Paul fits the bill. Matt. 7:15.John 10:12-13
                              Saul of Tarsus was prophesied a lot earlier than that.
                              Genesis 49:8-12, Gen 49:27
                              Ezekiel 22

                              I’m assuming that the administrator of this website will poo-poo most of this because the Pauline “Christians” don’t like that nasty old testament.
                           10. doctrine Post authorSeptember 18, 2022 at 12:22 pm

                               Isaac,
                               How is a person saved? What must one believe?
                           11. Hope! July 9, 2023 at 11:29 pm

                               Newsflash: Paul is not the author. grantor, or gatekeeper of salvation! Choose the this day whom you will serve, whether it be Yahweh or man ( Paul), the choice is yours!!! Paul specifically states that he is a messenger of Satan, that he took them with craftiness and guile, that there is no witness to his gospel. and that the gospel that he teaches is his ( ” my gospel “). Paul is a test that centuries of Christians have failed. The path is narrow y’all! Ask Yahweh to open your eyes to see!
                           12. doctrine Post authorJuly 10, 2023 at 8:11 am

                               Hope!,
                               The answer to such comments is the same one Jesus gave the Jews in John 8–the Devil is your father. Those who reject Paul, reject the gospel, reject salvation, reject Christ. No hope.
                     3. Lori January 25, 2021 at 8:34 pm

                        Jesus said He came to the Jews only. He came to redeem those under the Law – Jews and He came to fulfill the Law. To fulfill something is to complete it perfectly. So Jesus was living – teaching – and doing the Law. He had not died on the Cross yet. Only after He took everyone’s sins Rom.5:10 even enemies (unbelievers sins) upon Himself as a sacrifice in our place, was buried and Rose again victoriously over Sin – Death- and Hell for us, can we believers now be free. We are free to believe We are Redeemed – Righteous – Justified (just as though we never sinned before God. Jesus took our place. We are now under the dispensation of Grace. Jesus was teaching the Law. Remember Jesus had not died for us yet.

                        Reply ↓
                        1. DJ October 2, 2021 at 11:03 am

                           Jesus stated this in scripture 40-50 years after his death: Revelation 22:12-14

                           12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                           So, your works will be judged, and keeping the commandments will be required to enter into the kingdom! Jesus words have never changed! This blows away the idea that Paul received a secret gospel from Jesus!

                           Reply ↓
                           1. doctrine Post authorOctober 3, 2021 at 5:03 pm

                              DJ,
                              The Church, the body of Christ, is not present in Revelation. Jesus addressed seven Jewish congregations in Revelation 2-3. Revelation concerns God completing His prophetic program for Israel and the nations (Gentiles). When one believes Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4, one become a new creation, Church, not longer Jew or Gentile. Israel and the nations are in Revelation. The Church is in heaven.
                     4. Dennis April 26, 2021 at 3:41 am

                        Finally someone that gets it. I just went through this discussion today with a Paul lover. All these Christians and pastors constantly talking Paul Paul Paul and never Jesus. It’s like going to the dishwasher to find out how to cook steak instead of going to the head chef. There is a thought I have never mentioned out loud but it’s been in my head since I first read the Bible in 1982. Paul hated Christians and wanted to kill all if them. What better way to destroy the word of Jesus than by infiltration? And great point earlier about preaching any other word than what Jesus said let that man be accursed! I personally believe that if I am going to listen to someone about something why not go to the source and that is my Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ, Amen.

                        Reply ↓
                        1. doctrine Post authorApril 26, 2021 at 8:22 am

                           Dennis,
                           Apart from Paul there is no message of salvation. If one rejects Paul’s gospel that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead, one is not a Christian; one is lost. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that everything Paul wrote, he received directly from the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the source. So when you say you do not like Paul or follow Paul, what you are really saying is you do not follow Christ. That is your primary problem. You have rejected Christ’s commands for His Church, the body of Christ. In His earthly ministry, Jesus spoke to Jews, not to Gentiles. He came to fulfill God’s promises to Israel. The Church, the body of Christ, did not exist. All Church doctrine comes through Paul.

                           Reply ↓
                           1. Douglas Zachary November 23, 2021 at 2:53 pm

                              I think the way you are wording this is causing confusion. You call it “Paul’s Gospel” and you have to realize the contextual framework those words fit into to those who thing Paul’s teachings are contrary to that of Jesus. In all actuality, there is no “Paul’s Gospel”, there is only the gospel of Jesus. The gospel that Paul taught was the same as the one Jesus taught, but just in a different context.
                              Jesus taught the gospel to the Jews in the context of the Old Covenant (Jesus lived with in the confines of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant started after the death of Jesus). Paul taught the gospel to some Jews, but mostly to gentiles in the context of the New Covenant. Many people don’t get this very significant point.
                              It would be best if you avoid using the term “Paul’s Gospel”, It did no originate with Paul.
                              Be Well,
                              DZ
                           2. doctrine Post authorNovember 23, 2021 at 7:50 pm

                              Douglas,
                              I call it Paul’s gospel because that is what he called it. What was the gospel that saved during Jesus’ earthly ministry? In other words, what did the apostles believe for salvation? What this the gospel Paul proclaimed?
                     5. Natalia March 11, 2022 at 2:21 am

                        Chelsie, you make absolute sense. If we are to follow Jesus’s teachings, they are at odds with Paul’s. Those who follow Paul’s teachings shouldn’t be called Christians! Astounding!

                        Reply ↓
                        1. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2022 at 7:40 am

                           Natalia,
                           How does one become a Christian?

                           Reply ↓
                           1. Véronique Giraud December 17, 2022 at 10:18 am

                              One becomes a Christian by answering “Yes!” to the question Jesus put to Martha in John 11:25-26, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
                              And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
                           2. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2022 at 10:42 am

                              Véronique,
                              What did “believing in Christ” mean during Jesus’ earthly ministry? Is this what we believe today for salvation? Is it the same as 1 Corinthians 15.1-4?
                           3. Anders December 20, 2022 at 6:05 am

                              A Jew becomes “an Israelite indeed” by recognizing that Jesus is the Son of God, the King of Israel. (Joh 1:49) Anyone, Jew or Gentile, is baptized into the Body of Christ by believing that He died for our sins and rose again. (Rom 4:24)
                        2. Sena M December 21, 2022 at 11:17 am

                           They were 1st called “CHRISTIAN” in Antioch (Acts 11) after the preaching of Paul.
                           So it’s because of Paul’s preaching we are called “CHRISTIAN”
                           So, no Paul no “CHRISTIAN”

                           Reply ↓
                           1. Anders December 21, 2022 at 3:24 pm

                              It’s true, Sena, that people began to call the believers Christians at Antioch. And Paul was ministering in that city at the time. But Paul himself did not use the word Christian in his letters. Rather he referred to believers as saints in Christ Jesus, faithful brethren in Christ Jesus, those loved by God, those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, or simply as “the church”.
                              Some may be bothered by the word “brethren”, but clearly both men and women were included when Paul used this word. (Acts 16:40)
                  2. daisy July 28, 2020 at 2:03 pm

                     Not only did Peter say what Paul wrote was difficult to understand but he said in Peter 2 Peter 3:16 that ignorant and unstable people distorted his letters, as they do the other scripture to their own destruction. Another version says they Perverted, and another version says twisted. Just Follow JESUS !!!

                     Reply ↓
                     1. doctrine Post authorJuly 28, 2020 at 4:26 pm

                        Daisy,
                        To follow Jesus today means to follow Paul’s doctrines. The ascended Lord chose Paul to begin the Church and reveal all its doctrines. Anything else is deceit.

                        Reply ↓
                        1. Wendy March 18, 2022 at 11:12 pm

                           And Joseph Smith heard a nd saw the angel Moroni. He wrote it in a book just like Paul. See the problem?

                           Reply ↓
                           1. doctrine Post authorMarch 19, 2022 at 9:23 am

                              Wendy,
                              Right. J. Smith saw and heard the angel Moroni. Paul saw the resurrected, ascended, glorified Christ. Paul wrote what the the ascended Lord told him. Smith wrote nothing from Jesus Christ. Paul wrote that he completed the Scriptures (Colossians 1.25). This means that what Smith wrote is not Scripture. Smith was a deceiver. See the problem?
                        2. Roger August 9, 2023 at 6:39 pm

                           Were their any witnesses to Paul’s conversion? NO!
                           Just his word.
                           Now prove me wrong but not by quoting Saul.

                           Reply ↓
                           1. doctrine Post authorAugust 9, 2023 at 8:05 pm

                              Roger,
                              So you throw out Luke and Peter as witnesses? All the apostles accepted Paul’s conversion. They all accepted him a believer. It seems you have not read the New Testament.
                  3. David Melendez August 30, 2020 at 9:20 am

                     I don’t get why you are bent on the Apostles not going to the Gentiles as Israel did not repent. Jesus is very clear about the religious leaders of the day holding up the kingdom. Jesus showed that many converted to believe his words. There is very little of what the Apostles did other than Acts and a few sparse letters. The majority of letters are from Paul. Paul clearly has a different gospel. We follow Jesus and not Paul. Paul like all other men can be mislead. Jesus says my sheep will know my voice. I will listen to Jesus voice and not Pauls.

                     Reply ↓
                     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 30, 2020 at 9:37 am

                        David,
                        What you are saying is that you only accept Christ in His earthly ministry, not the risen Christ. The ascended Lord called and commissioned Paul. Paul wrote that what he wrote he received by direct revelation from the risen Lord. If you reject Paul, you reject Christ.

                        Reply ↓
                     2. Lora January 25, 2021 at 9:46 pm

                        The Bible say Jesus came to fulfill the Law and redeem those under the Law. Fulfill means Complete. Jesus lived the Law and taught the Law to those who were under the Law – Jews. He fulfilled it for them. Remember that He had not died on the cross yet and became the sacrifice for everyone yet. . Galatians 5:4 says if you choose to live the Law then you fall from Grace and are cut off from Jesus. Also the disciples were to stay with the Jews, and Paul was to go to the Gentiles, because they did not teach the same gospel.

                        Reply ↓
               3. Jeffery Egbejule February 25, 2021 at 1:39 am

                  Hello Chelsea, I agree with you wholly. You see I’m a muslim revert from Christianity. And decided this morning to look into Paul’s teachings deeply. After reading his letters I concluded that he infact was teaching absolutely new doctrine contrary to what Jesus taught. It’s sad because most people won’t think as critically as you’ve done. I just pray God makes things even clearer to us who really want to follow the true teachings of Christ and the Prophets. Which I must add I believe is found wholly in Islam.

                  Reply ↓
                  1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 25, 2021 at 8:06 am

                     Jeffery,
                     Paul taught what he received from the risen, ascended Christ, not what Jesus taught in His earthly ministry. To say Paul taught contrary to Jesus is to misunderstand the entire New Testament. Apart from Jesus Christ there is no salvation. To be saved one must believe the gospel Paul received from the risen Lord: that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Neither Islam or any other religion has a plan of salvation, of redemption, to accomplish divine justice. Jesus declared, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me (John 14.6). All other paths are lies from the god of this world, Satan.

                     Reply ↓
            2. DJ October 25, 2021 at 11:40 am

               No disrespect, but Pauls gospel is no secret! Jesus already stated the following in scripture:

               John 3:16
               “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

               So, If we believe in him Jesus -we will not perish – but have everlasting Life! You are in direct conflict by telling us that we need to believe in Pauls Gospel to have everlasting Life. We don’t receive everlasting life from Paul – please reread John 3:16.

               50 years after Jesus died he revealed the following to Apostle John in Revelation 22:12-14

               12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

               Jesus could have easily said everyone only needs to believe the (New Secret Gospel). But he continues to say that we need to produce good works and follow the commandments. Jesus words are very consistent After all he is going to be our JUDGE (not Paul) and HE will be judging according to HIS WORD. Lastly, 50 years after his death, Jesus does not even mention Paul!

               Jesus states: Mark 13:31
               “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”

               Thank you for letting me post my thoughts here for others to see and share, and God Bless.

               Reply ↓
               1. doctrine Post authorOctober 25, 2021 at 12:29 pm

                  DJ,
                  This is Paul’s gospel, in 1 Corinthians 15:
                  1 Now I declare to you, brethren, the gospel that I proclaimed to you, which you also received, by which also you stand, 2 through which also you are saved, if you possess that message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first, what I also received: Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures.
                  Do you find any of this in what you wrote? What must one believe for salvation? What does “believing in Christ” mean?

                  Reply ↓
                  1. THOMAS THATTIL January 13, 2024 at 12:09 pm

                     I think in the article the author is addressing A VERY IMPORTANT, but subtle and difficult to understand doctrine for those who cannot distinguish between promises made to Jews, which were rejected as they crucified the Messiah, and the Church of Jesus Christ (the body of Christ).
                     The promises made to Jews will come to pass when the Nation as a whole say (of Jesus, blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Matt 23:39[Ps 118:26]
                     Zechariah 12:1 Jews as a nation repent .
                     God bless
                     TT

                     Reply ↓
            3. Rick James October 29, 2021 at 9:16 am

               Amen doctrine

               Reply ↓
         2. akrill March 1, 2021 at 10:49 am

            I agree with you wholeheartedly.

            Someone said to me the other day that they would be willing to die to defend Paul and his gospel, and I am so shocked by that statement.

            You beautifully articulated every single thing that I have ever wanted to say about Paul.

            Thank you.

            Reply ↓
            1. doctrine Post authorMarch 1, 2021 at 2:00 pm

               Akrill,
               To reject Paul is to reject Paul’s gospel and that means to reject Christ. If you come to know Christ, you will think differently. Jesus Christ changes the heart.

               Reply ↓
         3. Jesus Follower. September 21, 2022 at 10:38 am

            Hello Chelsie, I agree. There is only one way to be sure we are following the Truth. That way is through Jesus and His sayings. The only way is through Jesus… Christ is Christianity. Men of the bible (Especially the “Chief of Sinners, as Paul says he is) are just that men that are flawed… No way in the world I will take a sinners preaching over JESUS sayings.. The way is Extremely narrow and I think that is for lack of a better word when transcribed. God is revealing to babes. Thank you Jesus God and the Holy Spirit “only” … It is a pleasure to meet you sibling. (Paul is a preacher. Just like preachers today. I dont put any faith into what they say unless they are saying exactly what Jesus taught.) The four gospels is all you need in order to do what God wants and to secure your seat into heaven. The lake of fire will be over run with theologians and prophecy inventors.

            Reply ↓
            1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 21, 2022 at 11:49 am

               Jesus Follower,
               Paul did not say he was “chief of sinners.” The Greek text reads that Paul was πρῶτός “first.” Paul always used πρῶτός in its primary sense of first in time, place, etc. If you read 1 Timothy 1.15-16 you will see Paul wrote that he was the first to begin a whole new program, the Church, the body of Christ, by which one is saved by faith alone. He was saved to be a pattern, a prototype, for those who would be saved afterwards by his gospel. When you speak of Jesus and His sayings, you are limiting Christ to His earthly ministry. Paul received his instruction from the risen, ascended Christ. Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth, not just earth. There is only one way of salvation–believing Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4 (cf. Galatians 1.11-12).

               Reply ↓
            2. Joe September 21, 2022 at 4:06 pm

               Jesus Follower, I understand where you are coming from. I was where you are some years ago. “The words written in Red”. It’s important to know to whom the gospels were written to/for. Read Matthew 10 beginning at verse 6. If words have meaning then the teachings of Jesus and the 12 in MMLJ are not for you unless you are a member of the ‘lost sheep of the house of Israel”. Read it carefully. Jesus did not suggest he COMMANDED the 12. In Matthew 15 the Canaanite woman is talked down to because she was a gentile. Romans 15:8 tells us to whom Jesus’ ministry was to….8 verses later Paul tells us who his minister was to/for. The gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven preached by Jesus Christ and the 12 is not to us. Paul’s gospel of Grace is to everone. This was settled in Acts 15. Both gospels are from Jesus Christ. One while He was in the flesh and the other (to us) from our risen Lord thru Paul. Not given to Paul by any man (Gal. 1:11), Paul warns us not to believe in the wrong gospel (Galatians chapter 1)…..he actually warns us twice in chapter 1! I feel you are sincere, but sincerity does not count. Faith in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is what counts. Did you know the 12 did not even know of the upcoming death and resurrection of Christ during their ministry? John 20 verse 8-9. —and that my friend is our gospel…. belief in the resurrection. Where is that taught in MMLJ?

               Reply ↓
         4. Toluwalope November 22, 2022 at 5:02 am

            Why not listen to Peter in 2 Peter 3:14-18?
            Peter himself endorsed Paul’s writings, called them the Scriptures and admitted Paul had higher revelations of the gospel than himself?
            Do you know more than the same Peter you are proclaiming?

            Reply ↓
      2. Clint Durham M.A April 12, 2021 at 9:40 am

         There is not one let alone two witnesses to Paul’s story of the road to Damascus. There’s only one gospel that God sent his only son to preach.

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorApril 12, 2021 at 12:19 pm

            Clint,
            Your comments indicate you do not understand the gospel or how one is saved. Apart from Paul, there is no saving gospel. Peter told the Jews in Jerusalem that Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles, no longer by the gospel of the kingdom.

            Reply ↓
         2. Joe B June 10, 2021 at 2:21 pm

            That ‘one’ gospel you speak of Clint was only to the ‘lost sheep of the house of Israel” Read Matthew 10 beginning at about verse 6. Take a look at Matthew 15 and see what our Lord told the (Gentile) Canaanite woman. Gentiles were dogs. I didn’t say that Jesus Christ did. Things changed after the cross/Israel’s rejection. Peter says Paul’s epistles are included with the ‘other’ scriptures. I think that’s in 2 Peter 3:16…You should read it. You’ll be held responsible someday. It’s important!

            Reply ↓
      3. Misty June 10, 2021 at 11:24 am

         That is not true. He never said accept Paul or you can’t accept me!!!

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorJune 10, 2021 at 12:44 pm

            Misty,
            So you believe one can be saved without believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead?

            Reply ↓
            1. Larry Orr March 24, 2023 at 12:11 am

               Jesus our Lord was murdered by the demon possesed jews who chose a murderer to live and our Lord to die by the romzns method of death which is crucifixion my sister.
               Why is Israel dominant religion is judaism, the religion of the antichrist.
               They believe Jesus never came and was born of flesh and was murdered by them.
               They say that wasn’t their Savior, but someone committing blasphemy.
               The Hebrew Bible does not contain NT or Revelation of Jesus, the book of Revelation.
               Israel is not the people but the land.
               All our brothers and sisters shall be gathered from the 4 corners of the world and placed in New Jerusalem, a mothership 1500 miles in every direction.
               We shall be set down in Israel, the land of our inheritance.
               We, the ones of New Jerusalem are our Lord JESUS’S people, not the ones in Israel.
               SEE YOU IN NEW JERUSALEM

               Reply ↓
               1. doctrine Post authorMarch 24, 2023 at 10:08 am

                  Larry,
                  Your statements reveal you are without hope, without Christ, without eternal life for you have rejected God’s salvation that Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead, Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). God extends His salvation to you. All you have to do is believe it.

                  Reply ↓
         2. Joe B June 10, 2021 at 6:29 pm

            Misty,

            What part of the phrase ‘my gospel’ don’t you understand?
            Romans 16

            25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.

            ‘Be ye followers of me’ is another phrase of Paul’s. 1 Corinthians 11

            Reply ↓
      4. Ken January 24, 2022 at 3:24 pm

         You are correct. Anyone saying that Paul contradicts Jesus is a fool. Paul received his gospel by revelation from Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1.) It’s also a fool’s errand to bring the message that Paul and James contradict each other regarding justification. Paul took the gospel to Jerusalem and they concurred that he had it correct and was preaching correctly. James was one of those in Jerusalem. Therefore for anyone to say that James and Paul disagree is to contradict Paul, the author of Acts, and the Holy Spirit.

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 26, 2022 at 12:49 pm

            Ken,
            Paul had to explain his gospel to the leaders in Jerusalem according to what he wrote in Galatians 2. They argued against Paul because they knew nothing of his gospel, nothing of salvation by faith alone. They proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom which required works. So what the Twelve proclaimed and what Paul proclaimed were different. At the end of the day, Peter declared the gospel of the kingdom was over and the only way of salvation was Paul’s gospel. See my article, The Great Hinge.

            Reply ↓
      5. Jesus Q. July 18, 2022 at 6:36 am

         Doctrine Post author,
         Your statement To reject Paul is to reject the risen Christ and His salvation. It’s such a bad statement; Paul was good about talking about Jesus and what he did, and that’s fine. However, you must test Paul Duet 4, and 13 commands it since Paul puts himself as a prophet since he says he speaks for the Lord; here are a few points below. Here is some good resources you can check out and test your self. https://jesuswordsonly.github.io/

         After many years of following Paul’s gospel of faith by grace only and talking with many theologians, my theology was broken. God humbled me, tore down my theology, and HE had to rebuild it by testing Pauls’s gospels to Jesus and prior prophets.

         I believe most Christians can’t see this because the Bible has become an idol. I believe God had let the Bible come into existence as it is now for a reason of testing and also as a tool to help to seek God and His good news of Jesus. Many Christians had raised up the Bible like the bronze serpent. God told Moses to make the bronze serpent for a reason. God meant it for good. It was to save people at that moment in time. However, after a while, the people start worshiping like an idol, and Hezekiah found it necessary to destroy it (2 Kings 18:4). We must be careful what we call Holy; there is only one that is Holy.

         Satan is a master with words. After all, he was in charge in heaven with music. He understood how to manipulate emotion; after all, he talked a third of the angels into joining him. Think about that third of the angels in the presence of a Holy God was talked into rebelling. Satan is a master of stumbling blocks, and when you test Paul, you will see stumbling blocks all over his gospel. Christians love Paul because of how he talks about Jesus, which is true. Paul gives you tons of great truths that you can apply, but his snares are there to set you on a different path. Jesus did say the road is narrow; I believe it is very narrow.

         2Peter 3:15; here is a bible study on this. I hope it helps; it is a google word doc. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PlKL15xItPr3rWphoI1gvtxt3FBdaBjj4EpZvxzKxXk/edit?usp=sharing

         Consider this when you read Paul’s gospels.

         – Act 9 Paul transformation – Paul had NO spiritual discernment; he rejected Christ after hearing the Good News from Steven. So at that point, on the road to Damascus, he was a type of anti-Christ, killing and destroying Christ’s people. The angel of light that appeared to him said he was Jesus, but Paul wound not know any difference. Ask yourself, did Jesus and God force salvation on people? No, it had to come from their Free will to repent and to follow/believe/trust. Theologians love this theology, saying it was a miracle that happened in Act 9 based on ASSUMPTION. The Bible commands us in Deuteronomy 4:2 to not “diminish” any of the words of prior Prophets. Thus, this prohibits adding prophets who contradict earlier prophets. For example, because Jesus and Moses came before Paul, the principle of priority applies so that Jesus’ and Moses’ words are to be used to test the validity of Paul’s words for inspiration.

         -The Church of Philadelphia: Rev 3:7-13 Jesus praised the church of Philadelphia as a great church. We should use this church as an example to follow. I have asked biblical historians and theologians, and not one could tell me Paul taught there or any of his disciples. Think about that Paul’s Gospels were not preached at the Church of Philadelphia. Far as we know, there is no evidence.

         -Matthew 28:16-20 The Great Commission – Jesus gave a Command to “teaching them to observe all that I COMMANDED YOU.” Paul did a good job talking about Jesus the man and what he did but never taught Jesus’s commands, parables, or referenced any of Jesus’ teachings.

         -The Tribe of Benjamin (Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin) – You need to break this down word by word Genesis 49:27, and Matt 7:15. Matthew 24:5 to 7, 23-27 about Jesus Paul met in the wilderness outside Damascus?

         There is so much more. I would say Paul’s writing is just commentary; however, since he says he speaks for the Lord,” thus says the Lord’ he puts himself as a prophet, and in that case, the Torah comes into play that we must test him Deut 13.

         You will never go wrong just clinging to Jesus’s words and teaching.

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorJuly 18, 2022 at 8:16 am

            Jesus Q,
            So you believe that to be saved today is not by believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead? I wonder if these theologians of whom you spoke know the Lord. I hope you will come to know the risen Christ. Jesus in His earthly ministry ministered to Jews. His commands were to Israel, not Gentiles, not the Church. The Church did not exist. The Bible says the Church began with Paul. All Church doctrine comes from Paul. No other writers wrote to the Church. You will not find the Church addressed in the writings of Peter, James, John, or Jude. Unless one understands this this, one cannot understand Church theology. In fact, all theological understanding is impaired without this understanding. The Bible states Paul was Christ’s handpicked man—chosen in eternity past. Thus, rejecting Paul is rejecting Christ.

            Reply ↓
         2. Jeff Morgie September 17, 2022 at 12:07 pm

            “clinging”? perhaps you you mean “living” to his words and teachings. All of which are summed up in the Sermon on the Mount.

            Reply ↓
            1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 17, 2022 at 12:59 pm

               Jeff,
               The Sermon on the Mount was to Jews and Gentiles when Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth. It has nothing to do with the Church.

               Reply ↓
      6. Mikey September 27, 2023 at 2:41 am

         Paul warned here in Galatians that if anyone (meaning the disciples) preach any other gospel but MINE (Paul) then let him be cursed or something similar. Jesus warned that someone would come later and preach things He did not say. Work it out yourself. My sheep hear my voice He said.

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 28, 2023 at 11:13 am

            Mikey,
            So you think Paul was a deceiver? That all the apostles were wrong about him, that Paul suffered all he did for what? How do you think Paul got the gospel he proclaimed? How did God’s greatest enemy become his most dedicated servant? Have you read what Paul wrote?

            Reply ↓
      7. Michael February 10, 2024 at 3:33 pm

         That is an insane statement. If the Messiah professed something that Paul goes against…we are to reject him or ANYONE who does so!

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 10, 2024 at 4:29 pm

            Michael,
            It would be insane if Paul said anything contrary to what Jesus said. He did not. Everything Paul wrote, he received, not from the earthly Lord but from the resurrected, ascended Jesus (cf. Galatians 1.11-12; 1 Thessalonians 4.2; 1 Timothy 1.1, etc.). What Jesus said in His earthly ministry concerned His prophetic, covenant program with the Jews. What He spoke to Paul concerned His Church program, which was a secret (cf. Ephesians 3). Unless one understands this basic theological truth one cannot understand Church theology. It is the foundation of all Church theology.

            Reply ↓
   2. Sharon Gathers April 29, 2022 at 5:56 pm

      Ledger, well said. I too have problems with Paul not expanding Jesus command in Math. 28. He seems to be moving in a different direction by teaching something different. His own words in Galatians can be used against him. Sorry, we are so confused because of Paul addition to sacred text.

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      1. doctrine Post authorApril 29, 2022 at 7:22 pm

         Sharon,
         How do you think one is saved? How does one become a Christian? Warning: almost every time I ask this question of anyone critical of Paul, I receive no answer.

         Reply ↓
         1. Sharon Gathers April 29, 2022 at 10:07 pm

            Hi, I said I’m confused in Paul moving in a different direction. There should not be Jesus vs. Paul debate or Paul’s doctrine. After all, Jesus was the Word made flesh as John mentions. However, I believe in the Romans Road Verses in addition to other verses. Paul was not the only writer who wrote about salvation.

            We are all sinners (Rom. 3:10,23).
            The wages of our sins is death (Rom. 6:23).
            Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross (Rom. 5:8).
            Salvation comes by faith, that is, by confessing with our mouths and believing in our hearts (Rom. 10:9,10).
            Call on the Lord for salvation and get saved (Rom. 10:13).

            He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.Titus 3:5

            And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Act 4:12

            I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1John 5:18

            Finally, the scripture that led me to The Lord.

            John 3:16
            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

            I believe we should question Paul’s writings if it seems to contradict Jesus message. Finally, there was no secret that Paul possessed because our Lord Jesus spoke in Luke 24:46 the future salvation message. Again, I’m just confused with several of his claim. Thank you for this platform. I pray that while we all may have different views our common denominator is we made Jesus Christ our Saviour.

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            1. doctrine Post authorApril 30, 2022 at 8:59 am

               Sharon,
               When you say you are confused about Paul moving in a different direction, that is what the article is about. When you say that we should question Paul’s writings if they seem to contradict Jesus’ message what you mean is if they contradict what Jesus taught in His earthly ministry. Did Jesus as God give His word to Moses and the prophets? Is what Jesus spoke in the Gospels the only valid part of our Bible? Do we throw away the rest? Jesus spoke to the Twelve in His earthly ministry under the Mosaic Law. The Church is not under the Law. The ascended, glorified Lord spoke to Paul. He gave Paul the revelation of the Church and the revelation of the gospel of grace, our message of salvation. How were people saved during Jesus’ earthly ministry or before? Did they believe the same thing you believed? Did they believe Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead? That is the gospel of salvation today (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Those saved during Jesus’ earthly ministry were saved by believing in His identity, who He was (John 1, 11, Matthew 16). We are not saved by believing He is the Messiah, the Son of God (though we do). We are saved by believing in His work, that He died for our sins and rose from the dead. This is a whole different message. That is why Paul wrote he received this gospel from Christ (Galatians 1.11-12) and why he said this gospel was a secret (Ephesians 6.19). If you keep all this straight you remove all the confusion and contradictions that plague Christianity (why we have thousands of denominations all believing something different). John 3.16 says nothing about Jesus dying for our sins or rising from the dead. We know that all now. But for those who heard that message, they had no idea He was going to die, much less rise from the dead. Even after He rose from the dead, did Peter tell the Jews at Pentecost to believe this? See Acts 2.36-38.

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         2. Tired of Pauline Heresy September 4, 2022 at 10:48 pm

            How about this for an answer. No one is saved. We will all be judged at the End of Days. I find you to be prideful and arrogant. You know nothing of God’s plan, just as I know nothing of it. Try doing as Jesus instructed and love your brothers and sisters that God has put on this Earth. That is all you need to concern yourself with. You are not God, Paul was not God. Neither of you know the Will of God.

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            1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 5, 2022 at 7:54 am

               Tired of Pauline Heresy,
               You’re entitled to your opinion but what you wrote is contrary to what the Bible has revealed. God has revealed Himself and His plan of salvation. You can accept or reject it but how one is saved is stated clearly. No excuses. Jesus Christ will judge according to Paul’s gospel (Romans 2.16).

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               1. Tony September 6, 2022 at 12:22 am

                  Don, you cannot get any clearer and plain than what you explained. It will always baffle me how some will argue a point that the Bible clearly spells out. Keep up the great work because it is truly helping those that want to know Christ better. Blessings!

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            2. Jeff Morgie September 17, 2022 at 12:15 pm

               “rejecting paul is rejecting Christ” These conflactions are not necessary. If you live and act in accordance with the teachings from the Sermon on the Mount will you not be rewarded? there is a clear difference between mans theology and the teachings of Jesus.

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               1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 17, 2022 at 12:57 pm

                  Jeff,
                  How is a person saved? What must one believe?

                  Reply ↓
   3. Jesus Follower. September 21, 2022 at 3:43 pm

      Paul like all of the writers of the holy bible : Was not placed in a virgin womb at conception, did not die on the cross, did not rise again on the third day, is not coming back in the east to save us.. So argue about theology and take that bus straight to hell if you wish. You had better focus on Jesus the one and only Christ.

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      1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 21, 2022 at 3:55 pm

         Jesus Follower,
         The Lord Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth, the source of all divine revelation, not just the words He spoke in His earthly ministry. Paul’s gospel is Christ died for you sins and rose from the dead. Do you think a person can be saved by some other way?

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2. HonestEnquiry November 28, 2016 at 4:53 pm

   Ok. I get it. There is no salvation apart from Gospel of Paul. However my question is this. Paul per his own admission was an opponent of Christians. He would kill and torture them. Are those Christians saved who died before Paul’s ministry? If so on what basis? Obviously they couldn’t have believed in the salvation formula of Paul , because that was still not preached.

   I hope your answer is in affirmative that they indeed are saved. However that leaves a conundrum. If people could be saved after Lord had already “risen” but without believing in his “death/resurrection” as means of salvation at that time, why can’t they be saved today by the same formula?

   Basically if Jesus was good enough [without teaching of Paul] for salvation for those Christians , why Jesus is not good enough for salvation of people today without teaching of Paul?

   Similarity what would be fate of James and his followers who apparently didn’t believe in salvation formula of Paul?

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   1. doctrine Post authorNovember 29, 2016 at 8:04 am

      HonestEnquiry,
      The believers Paul killed were saved. They believed the gospel of the kingdom, that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God (see my article, The Gospel of the Kingdom). Paul’s gospel began after he returned from Arabia. From then until the Council of Jerusalem two gospels existed. At the end of the Council, only Paul’s gospel remained. See my article, The Great Hinge. No other gospel can save and this is why Paul stated in Galatians 1.6-9 that anyone who proclaimed a gospel other than his was cursed (Paul wrote Galatians about 4-5 years after the Council).

      Reply ↓
      1. Brian Kelley January 28, 2020 at 3:17 pm

         Don, one thing about Saul’s persecution of believers has always baffled me. Did he do or participate in the killing directly, or did he encourage, incite or oversee the violence against the believers? I know this probably doesn’t matter since he was still the instigator. Murder is murder regardless of whether you order or do the deed yourself.

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         1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 29, 2020 at 1:20 pm

            Brian,
            Paul was a strong personality and active in the persecution of Jewish believers. Not only did he write that he voted for their being put to death but that he compelled them to blaspheme. I do not think Paul himself whipped anyone but think he was with the torturer demanding them to reject Christ. Remember too, that the members of the Sanhedrin themselves stoned Stephen. They were Paul’s role model.

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            1. D.RobHarv May 29, 2021 at 10:41 am

               Don, it occurred to me today while reading this article, that on one or two of the many times the Pharisees confronted and disputed with Jesus, that Saul was likely among them.
               PerhDaps even then Christ had focus on future Paul.

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               1. doctrine Post authorMay 30, 2021 at 4:23 pm

                  D.RobHarv,
                  Could have been. Jesus’ words to Saul, “Hard to kick against the goads,” shows God had been working on Saul’s heart.

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                  1. D.RobHarv May 31, 2021 at 8:09 am

                     Yep, especially on the road to Damascus!
                     Reminded me of John 9; the Pharisees berating the (formerly) blind man Jesus healed on the Sabbath. The man’s retorts to their interrogation are priceless, then he meets Jesus who had healed him.
                     Jesus then gives that group of a taste of their arrogance by exposing their own blindness, maybe even foreshadowing Saul’s future encounter.
                     Also exposed is the fact that the group had forcefully removed the blind man from the synagogue. That must of taken a bit of work, heh?
                     I know did all this is neither here nor there. Just fun for me some time to put flesh and blood into the mix and see the Word in operation.
                     Your hard work is always appreciated, Don. May God richly bless you in every way.

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3. Jon December 30, 2016 at 6:41 pm

   JESUS said, “go and do what I,…say.” PAUL is the one whom wrote most of the new testament. We are obviously doing what PAUL says. Isn’t this an obvious contradiction? Why isn’t their a book in the bible called, “The gospel according to JESUS?” It seems crystal clear to me that PAUL was a false prophet. Yes, he had good things to say, but still, What did JESUS say? Please do e mail me a response too.

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   1. doctrine Post authorDecember 30, 2016 at 8:45 pm

      Jon,
      The argument is irrational and I’ve answered it many times. If Paul was a false prophet you have to get rid of most of the New Testament. Paul was accepted by Peter, James, John, Luke, Mark, Silas, Barnabas, etc. They wrote everything in the NT except Matthew and Jude. If Paul was a false prophet they would have identified him as such, not held him in esteem, not deferred to him. So if Paul was false, they were too. Throw away your NT.

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      1. Patrick April 19, 2020 at 10:51 pm

         He wasn’t accepted by any of them. They all said his doctrine was wrong. Every single one. None ever called him an apostle either. Not once that I can find.

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         1. doctrine Post authorApril 20, 2020 at 8:34 am

            Patrick,
            You must have a different Bible from everyone else for the Bible states Paul was recognized as God’s apostle by the Twelve as well as Mark, Luke, Barnabas, Silas, and many others. In the end, what you are saying is that one is not saved by believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead but by some other way. But if and when you come to know Christ, you will understand that Paul was God’s man to reveal the doctrines of the Church. Until then, you will remain blinded by the god of this world.

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            1. justin September 14, 2020 at 7:56 pm

               it seems to me that many readers cannot fathom the idea of a free gift, their pride blinds them as they feel their works are worth something towards their salvation.

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            2. Mike Regan April 21, 2023 at 5:22 am

               Nobody is saved by ” believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead” Saving is ONLY by repentance! Paul might have said it… but not Jesus.

               Reply ↓
               1. doctrine Post authorApril 21, 2023 at 8:10 am

                  Mike,
                  You position is man saves himself, by his own works. Christ is the one who saves. One can only know God through depending on His work. The gospel Paul proclaimed came from the risen Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). To reject Paul’s gospel is to reject Jesus Christ.

                  Reply ↓
                  1. Mike Regan April 21, 2023 at 8:55 pm

                     Jesus says, He who believes in ME will have everlasting life. And what does Jesus say also? Keep the commandments and repent. If we are happy to be called sinners, filthy rags and what not, then it shows you are not repentant. Yes, occasionally I do sin… hmmmm, 3 years ago I used the F word in frustration. Not said it since repenting. There is a limit to grace.
                     First comes belief in Jesus(Free will choice)
                     Second comes obedience to Jesus(acknowledgement)
                     Third comes salvation.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorApril 22, 2023 at 8:08 am

                        Mike,
                        To whom did Jesus speak these words? He spoke them to Jews, not Gentiles. This was His earthly ministry. The risen Lord spoke to Paul and gave him the message of salvation, the gospel of the grace of God, after He ascended, from heaven. Your focus is wholly on what Jesus spoke on earth, not on what He spoke from heaven. Do you think God is going to accept someone who believes what Jesus spoke on earth but rejects what He said from heaven?

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                        1. Mike Regan April 22, 2023 at 8:28 pm

                           My friend, you really mean to say, that the same God who created all mankind, and all that is above and below, and in the sea, the same God who created the universes and all that is in it… actually had different laws for different people? The only way that can be assumed, is to twist scripture. Please, for your own sake, and the sake of the readers who you can mislead, (woe unto them who mislead), the same God of yesterday is the same God of today who says… only by repentance can one be saved. Grace has its limits friend. I know you love Paul, and Paul does say some lovely ear tickling words that really are true, but the ultimate truth is… ONLY by repentance can one be saved. Unfortunately Paul refused to say this, and sugar coating HIS gospel can never make it the full truth. Hence the saying of Yahoshua… A wolf in sheeps clothing. If a wolf was easily noticed, all sheep would live… its only when a wolf is well camouflaged can it infiltrate and consume the prey. Gentiles are included, as they were in the beginning…. Love and Peace friend.

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                           1. doctrine Post authorApril 22, 2023 at 8:43 pm

                              Mike,
                              What you are saying is that you believe the parts of the Bible you like and reject the parts you do not like. Do you understand what repentance means? It means a change of mind. When one believes the gospel, that Christ died for your sins and rose again, that is a change of mind. Works are beneficial after salvation. Works before salvation are nothing more than filthy rags (Isaiah 64.6). God is not impressed with our righteousness.
         2. Douglas Zachary November 23, 2021 at 3:06 pm

            Where do you get that assertion ??
            Peter clearly affirmed the authority of Paul’s writings. If you are not aware of where Peter says that, then you are not very informed concerning what the Scriptures teach and perhaps you should not be commenting on issues without more complete information.

            I will entertain and challenge yo to provide some objective, evidential support for your unsupported assertion. Just where does it say in Scripture or else where that “They all said his doctrine was wrong. Every single one “

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            1. Mike Regan April 21, 2023 at 8:56 pm

               Peter did not confirm Paul as an apostle.

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               1. doctrine Post authorApril 22, 2023 at 8:04 am

                  Mike,
                  Apparently, you are unaware of Scriptures that do no support your ideas. Peter declared at the Jerusalem Council that from that time on, Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles. Read Acts 15. After this, Paul wrote that if anyone proclaimed a gospel different from his, he was cursed (Galatians 1.6-9). Read 2 Peter 3.15-16. All the apostles affirmed Paul’s apostleship, not just Peter. If you do not come to Christ through Paul’s gospel, by faith alone, trusting in Christ’s death and resurrection, you have no salvation, no eternal life, no indwelling Holy Spirit, no relationship with God.

                  Reply ↓
      2. Robt May 29, 2021 at 8:32 am

         I read, but who knows if you can believe it, that when the NT books were being debated as to which were conical and which were not that some believed that “only the Gospels” should be included. You see how old this argument is.
         Believe in Jesus. Pledge yourself to him in baptism. Receive his spirit. Obey him and he will reveal himself to you. And let the debate continue between the “Experts.”
         You will learn to fear him and ultimately love him.

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         1. doctrine Post authorMay 29, 2021 at 10:18 am

            Robt,
            This article has nothing to do with canonicity. It show the difference between God’s prophetic plan involving Israel and the nations and God’s secret plan of the Church. Believing in Jesus means believing Paul’s gospel, that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead. When one does this one is baptized and identified in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is no longer a Christian practice (Ephesians 4.5).

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      3. Learning Guy February 2, 2024 at 7:29 am

         Greetings Family!
         What an awesome discussion! Wow! The article was a good read and the responses are pretty awesome too!
         I’m only just getting back into reading the bible. Read it from start to finish, and man oh man…such a revealing read! The only thing that baffled me was the NT re what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. I started making up my own comparison before searching up on Google where I found this article.
         Here’s my humble thought(s)…
         We are so blessed! Truly blessed to have the bible. From Genesis 1v1 to Revelation 22v21 we see God’s power and glory, His holiness and His righteousness. We see His mercy and His grace, His faithfulness and love! Not just for Israel, but also for the Gentiles.
         God’s love and grace for Israel AND the gentiles can be seen in the OT. Rahab, Ruth, King Nebudchanezzar, Nineveh etc. God’s love and grace for both Israel and the gentiles can be seen in the NT. The Roman centurion, the woman at the well.
         Anyways, getting off topic. People say Paul preached grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. But his writing is riddled with works stuff right? Like all the way through his epistles. Jesus said in John, if you love me, you will keep my commands. Paul speaks of these things eg. Love one another, encourage each other, meet regularly. Jesus asked the disciples who they thought He was, Peter said (totally paraphrasing), ‘ the Christ, the Son of God’. Jesus credited that knowledge to His Father. Paul knows the OT inside out, he reveals the knowledge of who Jesus Christ is to gentiles who would’ve seen it as mysteries/secrets. Remember when Jesus healed someone and He told that person not to say anything? That’s a secret maybe? We get the benefit of seeing everything laid out in front of us in the bible.
         John said ‘In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God…’…Jesus said He was there when Satan was cast down. So God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit together in the beginning.
         Anyways, sorry. Too many thoughts. My humble conclusion…
         We are blessed. We are beneficiaries of the complete Word. We see all that He is and all that He has done. We see Jesus Christ in the OT, not just in the prophecies, but in the stories eg. Judah giving himself in place of Benjamin, Isaac obediently following his father’s will. Both Judah and Isaac were carriers of the promised seed of Jesus Christ. In the NT we see the Word made flesh, Jesus our Lord and Saviour revealed in the 4 gospels, then we see the explained even further in Paul’s letters. That brings us back to this whole grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone. Nothing could be truer than that statement. We are under God’s grace. We have been since the fall of man (Gen 3). Grace that comes from His love for the world John 3:16. In that grace, we who have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and believed in Him, repent and turn back to Him who created us. Our faith is in Him alone. And in that faith a.k.a belief in, we grow in our love for Jesus Christ who is in the Father as the Father is in Him. As we gain more of an understanding in the fullness of who the Son of God is (which we can see in Paul’s letters), we grow in our love for Him. And in doing so, we produce obedience to Jesus commands. We worship Him and follow His example of being obedient to His Father’s will (Faith without works is dead). And He and His Father will come and abide in us. Then as it says in Revelation, the world will see Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Messiah, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, the lamb who was led to the slaughter, the conquering Lion of Judah, the mystery that the world hates, but we know in our hearts, minds, spirits because He is revealed to us in the Word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, coming in the clouds in ALL HIS GLORY! And every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that He is Lord!…you guys know the rest of the story aye.
         The plan has always been our redemption back to God our Creator through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ for His glory and honour!
         Does Paul contradict Jesus? I don’t reckon aye. He explains Him. And He lives out His life just as Jesus did. Obedient to God’s will of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to the gentiles. It looks like he also uses the Jewish traditions to bring order to the church as well.
         I pray that y’all get the gist of my ramblings. I’m not a bible scholar lol
         Forgive me if any of my words are out of line with God’s word. Still learning and growing.
         Be in the Word and of the Word.
         Much love Fam! God bless 🙏

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         1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 2, 2024 at 9:10 am

            Learning guy,
            Thank you. To understand the Scriptures one must distinguish between God’s covenant, prophetic program that concerns Jews and Gentiles and His new program, His secret of the Church which the risen Lord revealed to Paul. The Church began with Paul and all Church doctrine is found in His letters. The prophetic program is found int the gospels and letters of James, Peter, John, and Jude. If you want to learn about our status as members of the Church, the body of Christ, one must read Paul. Nothing of the Church is found outside his letters. Paul received all his teachings from the risen, ascended Lord.

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4. Tom January 3, 2017 at 10:59 pm

   I just read the question and response right before mine. I see that you have addressed it. Do you have a more detailed rebuttal that addresses some of the specific claims? Like Acts recording 3 conflicting versions of the Pauline conversion.

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   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 4, 2017 at 8:23 am

      Tom,
      It sounds like these people reject Luke. Luke wrote Acts.

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5. Tom January 3, 2017 at 11:15 pm

   This is not a continuation of my last comments but something new that I have been wondering as I read this site. What was the defining moment that allowed the early church to know Paul’s message was the new doctrine. The Old Covenant was given to Moses in very convincing terms. Jesus follows in a continuation of that with many confirming prophets, a virgin birth, signs, and a resurrection. Jesus did not teach anything in contradiction to the Law. Jesus gave no hint of a future Paul. Paul taught something that was at odds with the other apostles who got their message from the founder of the New Covenant. What made them come around and confirm that this newcomer who taught something in conflict with the Jesus message was actually of God? What gave them the confidence that they were being true to the risen Christ by endorsing Paul?

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 4, 2017 at 8:22 am

      Tom,
      The process was somewhat gradual and came in various stages. Read Galatians 1. The crisis point of the gospel was the Council of Jerusalem in 51 A.D. Paul was probably converted in about 35-37 A.D. Read my article, The Great Hinge. But early on we see Barnabas and Mark going out with Paul, and later, Silas. Luke was Paul’s constant companion. Paul needed a full-time physician with him because he was always getting beaten. Paul mentions many believers who loved and supported him. Those who say Paul was a false prophet are either ignorant of the Scriptures or reject the Scriptures. They are false teachers.

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6. Tom January 5, 2017 at 9:12 am

   They don’t reject Luke/Acts. They say Luke recorded the events as accurately as possible. They maintain that Paul was the one switching the story and Luke was accurately recording it. Also they don’t reject Peter either. They have a study on 2 Peter that concludes Peter was not in favor of Paul’s teaching http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/topicindex/57-second-peter-reference-to-paul.html

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 5, 2017 at 12:13 pm

      Tom,
      Well, this person actually does reject Luke/Acts because Acts 15 recorded how Peter sided with Paul. We have almost all the NT writers recognizing Paul’s authority and commission. The person who writes this rejects Paul’s gospel. By definition, he is not a Christian. Beware. Res ipsa loquitur.

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      1. John September 2, 2017 at 4:58 am

         Why call it Christianity if it’s all about Paul? Women wouldn’t like Paul’s approach because he clearly had a negative attitude towards women. Jesus did not.

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         1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 2, 2017 at 8:03 am

            John,
            What Paul wrote and taught he received by revelation from the ascended Lord. The idea Paul had a negative attitude towards women is another myth born from ignorance of the Scriptures. Paul worked with many women throughout his ministry and held them in high regard. Read Matthew 15.21-28. Would some argue Jesus had a negative attitude towards women?

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      2. DJ October 2, 2021 at 12:00 pm

         Doctrine: You say » by definition he is not a Christian – because he rejects Pauls gospel. You my friend are passing jugement on someone that doesn’t agree with you. Is that being a Christian?

         Reply ↓
         1. doctrine Post authorOctober 3, 2021 at 5:00 pm

            DJ,
            How do you think one becomes a Christian?

            Reply ↓
   2. Michael Rogottie September 10, 2021 at 4:49 pm

      The link you posted goes to a gambling site.Didn’t know if you knew this.

      Reply ↓
7. Donna January 8, 2017 at 6:37 pm

   Thank you for your teaching. I understand every word you’ve written. I must say that in my experience in a non denominational church, I was saved according to a combination of the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of Grace. I remember making a statement of confession to accept Christ by these words: “I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and my personal Savior. Then, I was baptised and the minister stated before I went down into the water, “I now baptise you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit for the remission of sins that you may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”. I look back on this and see how I was saved by the Kingdom message. I believe the church I was in could not completely ignore Paul and his gospel because it is in the Bible that they say they believe in. It was explained to me that the church believed that Jesus was baptised and, therefore, members were baptised in order to follow His example. Upon going down in the water I was buried in Jesus’s death for sins and upon coming up I was raised in newness of resurrection life. This idea explained Paul’s message of death and resurrection. Is it any wonder that the average Christian today is so confused about how to live the Christian life? Mixing the Kingdom gospel with the grace Gospel is in my opinion a dangerous false religion. I praise the Lord for the Holy Spirit who guides the believer into all truth and sets free those caught in the devil’s snare. The challenge I face today is to throw out all the false teaching I learned in the mixture church and replace it with what it means to be saved by grace and live as a member of the Body of Christ in this current dispensation of the grace of God on Earth.

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   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 8, 2017 at 7:29 pm

      Donna,
      Your experience is far too typical and an example of why confusion exists in Christendom. Tragically, too many churches do not know the gospel, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead and that simply by believing this one has forgiveness and eternal life. Stay with Paul and everything will be clear. He is Christ’s appointed apostle of the Church.

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8. Glenn January 11, 2017 at 4:27 pm

   1st Corinthians 15 11 Paul Speaking: So then it is not important if I told you God’s message or if it was the other apostles who told you—we all tell people the same message, and this is what you believed.

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   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 11, 2017 at 6:37 pm

      Glenn,
      I’m not sure I understand your comment but what Paul wrote here was not that they preached the same thing. Before the Council of Jerusalem the gospel of the kingdom was still valid. People were saved under that gospel and evidently some were part of the Corinthian church. After the Council, only one gospel was valid, Paul’s gospel. See my article, The Great Hinge.

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   2. John W. Hampton March 28, 2017 at 10:29 am

      Not sure which bible you were using but the King James Bible states:

      1 Corinthians 15: 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
      11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
      12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

      In context, Paul is talking about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Those before him witnessed it and preached it and now he (Paul) is preaching it. Paul and the 12 understood that Christ was resurrected. That was no mystery.

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      1. Bobbi March 28, 2017 at 3:54 pm

         John,
         Although the resurrection was preached by both, the message is not the same in recorded scripture.
         See Acts 3:18-21. This was Peter. See also 1Peter 1:13, and Rev. 1:1.
         Peter himself tells us they are waiting for the Revelation before grace is manifest to Israel. Also prophesied in Zech. 14:9-21 And other places.

         See Romans 16:25. This is Paul preaching God’s hidden program. It is called the revelation of the mystery. A beautiful message of God’s grace being preached to all men. Jew and Gentiles together. All men. This is called the dispensation of the Grace of God. Ephesians. 3:2

         Two different programs. One has earthly destiny and one heavenly.

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9. Arun Henry January 23, 2017 at 1:12 am

   Righteousness, Justification, Sanctification, Predestination and Foreknowledge are the Key words used in Paul’s teaching. Paul’s Teachings are mainly based on Ethical Manifesto of Jesus Christ i.e. Moral character &responsibilities and Identifying the individual believer unto Christ BAPTISM i.e. Death and Resurrection into New Life, Born Again. Peter also realized these things and in letter of 2Peter 3:15-16 wrote :” And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things hard to be understood,which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” “The Secret things belong unto the Lord our God”

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   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 23, 2017 at 9:39 am

      Arun,
      The “key words” of Paul’s teachings are found primarily in his “secrets” (μυστήριον). These “secrets” were revelations Paul received from the risen Lord concerning the Church, the body of Christ. These “secrets” served for the Church, the body of Christ, as vehicles for Church doctrine in the way the covenants revealed God’s truth and promises to Israel and the nations concerning His prophetic plan. One cannot understand Paul apart from recognizing that these “secrets” were exactly what said they were, i.e., secrets. They were truths unknown before Paul. The reason so much confusion exists in Christendom is because this simple fact is ignored, rejected, or misunderstood.

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10. Scott January 24, 2017 at 12:18 am

    I am a novice but fascinated by this debate, feel like I just waded into a deep river with only arm bands to keep me afloat… I can’t say I understand it all, except that I have always sensed this huge difference in ‘tone’ between Saint Paul and particularly the Jesus of the Gospel of Saint John. (Jesus I like, Saint Paul is, well, “prickly”) The debate makes me feel a little melancholy and I can’t explain why. Maybe I’m nostalgic for a a pivcture I know was pretty, but flawed. Thanks for the multiple insights (and confusion!) Which reminds me of a slightly digging quote by Denis Diderot: “I have only a small flickering light to guide me in the darkness of a thick forest. Up comes a theologian and blows it out.”

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 24, 2017 at 3:39 pm

       Scott,
       Funny you should mention the Gospel of John. Read John 8. Prickly enough? Jesus came to fulfill the OT prophetic program to Israel (Romans 15.8-12). The Church is not found in the OT prophetic program. It was new. It began when the risen Lord commissioned Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles. Same God, different rules. Keep the two programs (Israel and the Church) separate and there is no contradiction or confusion. Mix them and it is chaos.

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       1. Alex Malazarte May 19, 2020 at 3:39 am

          Mark 16:14  Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 
          Mark 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 
          Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 

          D O N E….why do you need Paul. The commandment to preach Jesus gospel into to the world, to every creature ..this means preach Jesus Gospel to Jews and Gentiles….D O N E.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMay 19, 2020 at 8:30 am

             Alex,
             The Twelve never had a ministry to Gentiles. They were supposed to, but they never did because Israel refused to repent. The risen Lord commissioned Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles. The gospel by which one is saved is that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. The Twelve did not proclaim this gospel under after Paul revealed it to them. That’s why Paul is needed. There is no salvation apart from the gospel the ascended Lord revealed to Paul alone. Read The Great Hinge.

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11. Arun Henry January 25, 2017 at 12:28 am

    Hebrew 6:1-2 states “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and faith towards God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement.” The exposition given to the verses by good expositors, that it is directed to Jewish Christians who are following the old rituals of Temple and babes in Christ. Most of the Expositors bypassed it in a simple way. I am very much perplexed, by the first part “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection”. How to explain these two verses if they were directed to Christ followers?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 25, 2017 at 1:04 pm

       Arun,
       I am convinced Paul wrote Hebrews. What was meant by the phrase, “principles of the doctrine of Christ” was understood by his audience but is less clear to us. My insight is that Paul was speaking about Christ’s earthly ministry and the OT prophetic program. A clue to this interpretation is 2 Corinthians 5.16. The “though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more” refers to His earthly ministry. Paul’s focus was upon Christ in His risen, exalted, glorified position in heaven. This is what he was encouraging his readers to focus upon.

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       1. Jack March 2, 2017 at 11:17 am

          doc,
          I guess Paul could have written Hebrews, but if so it’s the only book he wrote that he didn’t identify himself as the author. This is no big issue however as long as we don’t try to mix everything in Hebrews with the gospel for us today, which thankfully you don’t. I have read through most of the above comments and totally agree with your explanation for the need to separate the kingdom and grace gospels to avoid the unbelievable confusion that exists in most churches today. I sat in one of these churches for thirty years, being entertained with the music and the feel-good sermons but never learning how to understand the scriptures in a way that resolves the apparent contradictions between the letters of Paul and Mathew through John. I’m very glad to have found another seeker of truth like yourself, as well as Les feldick, Justin Johnson, and Randy White and many others who so skillfully present this vital information to people around world knowing that there will be some who receive it. May God bless what you are doing for it will no doubt bear fruit for all eternity.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 2, 2017 at 12:51 pm

             Jack,
             Thank you. See my article, Who Wrote Hebrews? for the case of Paul’s authorship of Hebrews.

             Reply ↓
12. Isa Kocher March 9, 2017 at 3:00 pm

    slm.
    it’s hard to comment on ex cathedra statements about well known texts that openly and egregiously contradict the very words of the text. “my kingdom is not of this world.”

    there are a lot of places in the different gospels that are different than the emphasis of paul. but the nature of the kingdom is not one of them.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 9, 2017 at 4:27 pm

       Isa,
       Jesus’ words, “my kingdom is not of this world” is a genitive of source, not location. Its source is heaven. Jesus told the disciples to pray, “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on EARTH, as it is in heaven. Hundreds of passages indicate the kingdom of God will be on the earth.

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13. SamGh April 11, 2017 at 1:11 pm

    Paul in Acts 28:23 and 31 preached Jesus’ gospel. The gospel of the kingdom in Rome. And this was towards the end of his ministry.

    Was Paul then contradicting his own message?

    Someone please explain to me

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorApril 11, 2017 at 4:47 pm

       SamGh,
       Before Paul’s prison epistles, Paul addressed his message to Jews largely based upon the OT Scriptures. This was what they knew. This is evident from Acts 13, 18, and 28. Hebrews is Paul’s formal argument to Jews that we find in those Acts passages. Acts and Hebrews are transitional books. When Paul spoke of the “kingdom of God” with respect to Jews, their frame of reference was the earthly kingdom. Paul thought he could convince the Jews Jesus was the Messiah. His success was very limited and we do not find him addressing Jews after the prison letters. The whole experience of going to Jerusalem and ending in prison in Rome changed him. This is why he wrote he was the prisoner of Jesus Christ for Gentiles (Ephesians 3.1). Jesus put Paul in prison to teach him a lesson–that the Jews would not respond to him. But Paul also wrote of the kingdom of God in his letters by which he mean the whole realm over which God rules, and the Church is part of that kingdom. The major point is that all this took time–about 20 years.

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14. John Hampton April 13, 2017 at 3:41 pm

    Doctrine,
    Since you share Led Feldick’s teachings with others, here is his take on reconciliation and the issue of the judgement of sin for the WORLD taking place 2000 years ago…

    “Now, I have to stop. I can’t help it. I wasn’t planning on that, but something just came into mind. Here about a month ago in one of my classes here in Oklahoma the subject came up – how much of the world did God reconcile to Himself when He finished the work of the Cross? All of it! And see, that’s hard for people to comprehend. Well, then we skipped from reconciliation to forgiveness. How much of the world’s sin was forgiven as a result of the Cross? All of it! And one gentleman, just almost aghast, said, “You mean to tell me that everybody’s sin is already forgiven?” And I said, “Yes.” Well, I tried to prove as much as I could from Scripture, but I don’t think the guy was satisfied.
    And you know, the next day I had in the mail a book that somebody had sent to me. I don’t remember the author’s name, but it was dealing with that very subject. Within two or three days, I got another book from some other part of the country dealing with the same subject. And before I got back to that class, I had a third one. So, I went armed with three books all dealing with the fact that when Christ finished the work of the Cross, He reconciled every human being. He forgave all the sin of every human being.

    http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk82.html

    Thank you for your consideration of this very important topic.
    JWH

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 13, 2017 at 4:39 pm

       John,
       The Scriptures make it clear Christ reconciled the world (2 Corinthians 5.19-21). He paid for all sin. But His work is not effective unless one claims it. It is like having a check for $1,000 but never cashing it. The check is good, the money’s in the bank, it can be yours, but if you don’t sign it and claim the money it is worthless. I deal with this subject in some depth in For Whom Did Christ Die?

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15. Darren May 20, 2017 at 1:56 am

    I must confess that I get extremely frustrated that the only response anyone has to any question regarding Paul’s seemingly conflicting doctrine and Paul’s authority is either A) you’re not allowed to question God’s chosen person, and B) well, Paul says blah blah blah. First, We are ABSOLUTELY told to test anyone who tells us they have a new word. We’d be fools not to. Secondly, using Paul as your source of validating Paul is like defining a word using the word itself. You can’t! Why is it that no one can every show me ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE that shows me Paul is correct outside of Paul’s own words? And why is that not a concern for anyone?

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 20, 2017 at 8:27 am

       Darren,
       I have answered this matter several times. Paul’s apostleship and ministry are validated throughout the New Testament for anyone willing to read. You ask for one Scripture? Read 2 Peter 3.15.16. Peter wrote that Paul’s letters were Scripture and issued the warning, “which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” According to Peter, you have placed yourself into this category. Peter, James, John, Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, Luke, Mark all knew Paul and some of them worked closely with him. Peter declared Paul was right at the Council of Jerusalem. James agreed. Not to acknowledge Paul is to reject almost the entire NT. The only books that would be valid would be Matthew and Jude. Every other writer acknowledged Paul’s apostleship. And if Paul were as bad as some think, can the other writers be believed if they were unwilling to warn people about Paul? To question Paul reveals one to be without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. It is through Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) that one comes to know the living God. Let’s have no more of this foolishness. Paul was God’s divine choice to begin the Church, the body of Christ, and provide the Church with its doctrines. Paul was to the Church what Abraham, Moses, and the prophets were to Israel. ALL Church doctrine comes from Paul.

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       1. Brandon May 20, 2017 at 2:32 pm

          Very well said, Don. Thank you for helping us understand Gods Word better. :)

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          1. Heather Marie Reid October 9, 2019 at 11:26 am

             Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he isin the secret chambers; believe it not.
             For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [Every eye will see] For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Matthew 24:23-28

             Saul, a hebrew name changed to a Greek name Paul, Paulus, Apollion.
             This is all part of Constantine religion, Paul had ties to king Herrod. I cant help but believe this is the dragon rearing its Roman Edomite head.

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             1. doctrine Post authorOctober 9, 2019 at 12:19 pm

                Heather,
                The name, Paul, has no connection to Apollion. Paul means “small.” Paul had no ties to Herod. Wherever you got this information, it is false and is a rejection of Christ. The risen Christ chose Paul as His apostle to the Gentiles to reveal new doctrines to the Church. Apart from Paul, there is no gospel and no salvation.

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                1. Alicia July 27, 2021 at 9:12 am

                   Oh my goodness! Until I read through these comments I had no idea there were folks like Heather and Darren out there——people who name Christ as their Savior and who, in all likelihood, would not hesitate to give Paul’s Gospel (Gospel of the Grace of God) to an unsaved person as the way to eternal life, but at the same time reject the messenger as a false prophet!!! Don’t they realize categorizing Paul as “false” means God allowed an imposter to write ONE HALF of the NT—-and, as you have pointed out many times, Don—-the half containing ALL church doctrine, among that justification, sanctification, eternal security, the operation of Holy Spirit as our seal and on and on . . . What incredible blindness. I wonder how these folks can be saved at all!!

                   Reply ↓
                   1. doctrine Post authorJuly 27, 2021 at 10:35 am

                      Alicia,
                      Yes, pretty shocking. But I get these kinds of comments all the time. They are not saved. If one rejects Paul, one rejects his message, the gospel of salvation. These people are blinded by Satan and as a result become his agents.

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16. Wayne May 23, 2017 at 10:09 am

    For me it is simple Paul has said Follow me as I follow Christ. 1 Corinthians 11, Interpret the bible though Christ, The old , the new , letters , all should be interpreted though the very heart of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, king of kings. I will follow Christ and Him alone.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMay 23, 2017 at 11:20 am

       Wayne,
       The way to follow Christ as a member of the Church is to follow Paul. Paul was God’s divine agent to found the Church and reveal Church doctrine. Jesus in His earthly ministry ministered to Jews under the Mosaic Law, not to Gentiles.

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       1. Jeffrey April 29, 2020 at 1:36 am

          Hi Doc,

          I’ve been reading this fascinating rabbit hole for hours. This is literally something I never considered until today when I finished reading Screwtape Letters and realized that CS Lewis believe a person could lose their salvation. I wanted to know more about what the scriptures say and somehow I ended up here!

          My question about this reply is didn’t Jesus preach to Gentiles in the accounts of the feeding of the 4000?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorApril 29, 2020 at 8:36 am

             Jeffrey,
             No. That is not to say that no Gentiles were ever present but Jesus only addressed Jews. If you look at the account of the feeding of the 4,000 in Matthew 15.32-38, look a few verses before in Matthew 15.24. You might want to see my article, Two Remarkable Healings.

             Reply ↓
17. Michael May 23, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    Aren’t we called upon in Deuteronomy to test the scriptures? Have you tested the words of Paul and has he passed the test?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMay 24, 2017 at 9:26 am

       Michael,
       The risen Christ chose Paul. Is that not enough? Is the Scripture God-breathed? Peter stated Paul’s letters were Scripture (2 Peter 3.16).

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18. Chad June 15, 2017 at 8:54 pm

    I’ve been reading some of the comments on this site and I’m amazed at the amount of emotion thrown around. I recently began questioning Paul. I think the main issue, if I can be presumptuous enough to simplify the argument, is how to determine if Paul is telling the truth. If he is, we need to follow his revealed teachings. If Paul is lying (or misguided), we need to toss aside his teachings. The question becomes (as I stated previously) how do we determine if Paul is telling the truth? If we take Paul’s testimony as proof, this opens the door to accept the testimony of others who claim similar experiences. An example is Joseph Smith, Jr., founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon church from this point on). If we use other means to test Paul, then these methods must be used on other people making similar claims, such as Joseph Smith, Jr. Why did I choose Joseph Smith of all people? Christians quickly label him a false prophet. How? We compare his teachings and doctrines to what is revealed in the Bible. How should we test Paul? By comparing his teachings to the Bible. An immediate problem is that many of the books that comprise the New Testament were written by Paul. In essence, using the NT to test Paul is basically using Paul to prove Paul. We can’t use any of Jesus’ pre-Ascension teachings because the majority of Christians believe Jesus did away with these teachings through Paul. So we are stuck with basically taking Paul at his word. Again, if we allow this, we must also allow the fact that Joseph Smith could very well be a prophet and the Mormon church could be the true church. I think everyone on this page so far would agree this is foolish.

    Can we use 2nd Peter to testify in favor of Paul? Nope. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that 2nd Peter was written by Peter. Some who commented make mention that Peter claims Paul’s letters were Scripture. If we accept 2nd Peter 3:16 as proof that Paul’s letters are scripture, we must also accept the fact that Peter calls some of Paul’s teachings “ill-minded” (www.scripture4all.org). “Ill-minded” is defined as “ill-disposed” or “not having a friendly or favorable feeling about someone or something” according to http://www.merriem-webster.com. So, Peter is, in fact, calling Paul’s letters unfavorable or unfriendly to someone or something. This does not sound like someone who is supporting Paul. Unfortunately, Peter does not say which teachings are unfavorable.

    What does that leave us? We either compare Paul’s teachings to himself, the pre-Ascension teachings of Jesus, or we take Paul at his word. Comparing Paul to Paul is like comparing Joseph Smith to Joseph Smith. I don’t think that will work. Taking Paul at his word means we must also take Joseph Smith at his word. Again, I don’t think this will work. The only real option is to compare Paul’s teachings to Jesus’ pre-Ascension teachings. This raises a whole cluster of other questions: why didn’t Jesus tell his 12 apostles that Paul’s gospel was correct for Gentiles? Why did Jesus give Paul another gospel instead of using Peter who converted Cornelius or any of the other apostles? If Paul’s gospel is correct, and he claims that anyone teaching another gospel is cursed, then he is declaring the 12 apostles are cursed because they are teaching a different gospel. Would Jesus really not inform his 12 original apostles of this other gospel message? They could have worked with Paul and helped ease Jewish-Gentile tensions over issue such as circumcision.

    I’ve taken up a lot of space and will now conclude. I don’t want to come across as being crass. I think we have a real issue here. If Paul is right, then the 12 apostles as well as Jesus are liars. Jesus says “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matt. 5:18). Since heaven and earth did not pass away, and the Law was allegedly abolished post-Ascension through Paul, then Jesus, the 12 apostles, the Tanakh (Old Testament) are not important to us. If Paul is wrong or misguided, then we need to cling to Jesus’ words and obey Him.

    In light of the above, what method should be used to determine Paul’s validity? I know which one I prefer.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 16, 2017 at 7:36 pm

       Chad,
       Your analysis and logic are unsound. Jesus and the Twelve are right. Paul is right. Both are right. But Jesus and the Twelve dealt with Israel and God’s prophetic program. Paul dealt with the Church, the body of Christ. These are two separate programs. The same Lord revealed both. Jesus ministered to Israel under the Law to fulfill God’s covenant promises (Romans 15.8). Paul ministered to Gentiles (primarily) and Jews to reveal God’s grace and the creation of a new program, the Church (Romans 11.13; 1 Corinthians 3.10-11). Paul’s ministry was recognized by Peter, James, John, Mark, Luke, Silas, Barnabas, Timothy, and many others. To reject Paul, one must get rid of every book of the NT except Matthew and Jude. These are the only two writers who seem to have had no association with Paul.

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       1. Chad June 16, 2017 at 8:19 pm

          Thank you for your response. If I may ask a question; what purpose did the 12 have post-Ascension? If Paul was given the gospel we are to follow, what purpose did the 12 serve in light of this new information that Jesus did not share with them? I do not believe Peter accepted Paul in light of calling some of his teachings “ill minded” in 2nd Peter 3:16. Please see the link I included for www. scripture4all.org. If the gospel of grace superseded the Law post-Ascension, then what value are the 12 apostles? I’m confused how both can be right and Jesus can be right while teaching two very different messages. Thank you for taking the time to address my question. I look forward to whatever insight you can provide.

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          1. doctrine Post authorJune 16, 2017 at 8:49 pm

             Chad,
             Read Acts 2-3. This will answer your question. The message of the kingdom was still in play if Israel repented and accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Had they, the prophetic program would have continued and Christ would have returned and set up His kingdom. The Church would never have been created. Gentiles would have been blessed through Israel according to the Abrahamic covenant and the prophetic promises. God saved Paul due to Israel’s continued impenitence. But instead of dealing with the world in wrath (the Day of the Lord), he saved Paul to be the apostle of grace. The risen Lord gave Paul an entirely new message and began a new program, the Church, the body of Christ. Paul served as “proxy Israel” in this role and this ministry was in concert with the Abrahamic covenant. This is why Paul declared he was born “out of due time” (1 Corinthians 15.8). His “birth” foreshadowed Israel’s repentant birth (Romans 11.26). As such Paul became the channel of blessing for Gentiles.

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             1. Chad June 17, 2017 at 11:52 am

                Thank you again for your reply. I find it interesting. I have one final comment. I’ve always understood the Bible to have an underlying message of salvation through the grace of God. Here are some examples: God could have easily destroyed Adam and Eve for their transgression and simply started anew. God did not. God could have chosen to not save anyone from the flood and start anew. Instead, God chooses Noah. The same theme follows with Joseph, Abraham, etc. and up through the New Testament period. The Law given by Moses was never a Law of Salvation. It was a Law which did (and still does) separate the Israelite nation from the rest of the world. The Law has never saved them. Only God has done this. King David and many others recognized this. Jonah witnessed this first hand with Nineveh. God could have wiped the city clean and give no chance to repent. Instead, God chose to be merciful and send Jonah to Nineveh. The Law given to Moses did include laws specifically for the “sojouner/foreigner” (Gentile). These Laws were clearly distinguished from those given to the “Sons of Israel”. I suggest reading Leviticus and Numbers to see the Laws I’m referencing. James, at the Jerusalem Council, gave these same commands to the Gentiles. James got these from the Law. The message Paul was allegedly given to give to the Gentiles was already in play during the Old Testament times. I’ve included examples in this rather lengthy (I apologize for this) comment. My point is Paul did not do anything to aid God’s plan except give ammunition to Christians who believe in dispensationalism or repacement theology. Since salvation by grace already existed pre-Paul, and many examples can be found in the Old Testament, I have a difficult time believing God chose Paul to deliver a message that already was clearly established: God saves. The Law simply set Israel apart as His chosen nation. As true today as it was back then. Thank you for listening and I wish you all the best. Take care.

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorJune 17, 2017 at 3:51 pm

                   Chad,
                   You are correct. God has always shown grace and mercy. However, Paul’s teachings were unknown in the Old Testament and Gospels. This is why Paul called them secrets. These included the gospel of grace, salvation by faith alone, the Rapture, the Church, the body of Christ, the blinding of Israel, etc. God revealed none of these truths through the prophets or in Christ’s earthly ministry. We have a progressive revelation. God had not revealed he would created the Jewish people in Genesis 1-11. In the same way, He had not revealed He would create the Church in Genesis 12-John. God keeps secrets and reveals them in His own time.

                   Reply ↓
                2. Bobbi June 17, 2017 at 5:04 pm

                   Chad,
                   What you are not saying anything about or maybe seeing is “the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery” Rom. 1625-27
                   There is a specific purpose for this “dispensation”. 1 Cor. 9:17, Eph. 3:2.
                   The kingdom of God preached in the gospels and first part of acts has an earthly promise…Matt. 5:5, Matt. 19:28, Luke 22:30.
                   The body of Christ is for the “heavenly places”. Ephesians. 1:3,20, 2:6, 3:10
                   This is called the “the fellowship of the mystery.” This is speaking of “the mystery”.
                   Check it out! Is a beautiful revelation…

                   Reply ↓
          2. Victoria November 8, 2019 at 5:01 pm

             Actually, Paul himself even says that most all of those you have mentioned had all abandoned him except for Luke. I believe the MOST important thing is that a person believes God sent His only Son, who died on the cross for mankind’s sins-which also made a Way for non-Jews to now have salvation, and that He rose on the 3rd day, defeating death. I do not believe God “curses” anyone who believes that and strives to live as righteously as possible, including continuing to repent of sins-which Paul himself said several times in his epistles. To say that anyone who believes in Christ & follows Him but doesn’t follow Paul first and foremost is just wrong. It’s all supposed to be about the Father and the Son. It will be Jesus judging Believers for how they lived their lives as Christians-the good AND the bad- at the Judgement Seat of Christ—not Paul. To tell people they are wrong for even daring to question Paul is wrong as well—the Bible says otherwise in several different places. Your argument is very sound–just know tho that you will never win against a Pauline-they defend him more and obviously above Jesus Himself so steeped in Paul they are.

             Reply ↓
             1. doctrine Post authorNovember 8, 2019 at 7:12 pm

                Victoria,
                That Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead is Paul’s gospel. That gospel was not proclaimed by anyone until the risen Christ revealed it to Paul. You won’t find it in Peter, James, John, Jude. The one who rejects Paul rejects that gospel. If one rejects that gospel one is without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. And, as I wrote, one who rejects Paul rejects every book in the NT except Matthew and Jude and every one of the Twelve. Peter, James, John, Mark, Luke, Barnabas, and everyone else accepted Paul as God’s chosen instrument. I do not know who you have been listening to but I have had many comments from those who reject Paul, who say he was a false teacher, a ravening wolf, a deceiver. They reject the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead and that one is saved by believing this. They claim to know Christ but are his enemies.

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                1. Greg Johnston August 19, 2023 at 7:35 pm

                   We don’t follow Paul, we follow the risen Christ! Paul is our apostle who alone has revealed Christ’s finished work on the cross. We follow His doctrine by rightly dividing the inerrant, eternal, inspired word of God. Many of these responses claim that Paul was a false teacher. Wow! You may not understand the gospel of grace but to claim that any apostle was a deceiver, especially one who wrote 2/3 of the New Testament is very scary ground to stand on! No, we don’t worship Paul by any stretch, but we do worship the risen Savior according to the doctrine that He revealed to Paul! I can’t add anything to what Christ accomplished on the cross, all I can do is respond in complete awe that the One who knew no sin (Jesus, not Paul) became sin so that I could become the righteousness of God in Him! (2 Cor 5:21) That’s in Christ, not Paul. My good works are a result of my salvation, not a condition of it. So please, let’s dispense with the false accusation that we follow Paul rather than Jesus, after all, there is no other name whereby men can be saved! I encourage you to receive the gospel as Paul taught in I Cor 15:1-4! Grace to you…

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             2. Bobbi November 9, 2019 at 2:44 pm

                The problem with what you say is, we don’t live UNDER THE LAW…. But under GRACE. Rom.6:14. This is accomplished in us by the Spirit and by the scriptures according to THE RISEN LORD.

                Jesus was born of a woman UNDER THE LAW. Gal.4:4,5 BUT NOW…he is RISEN. What Paul teaches is what was accomplished by the cross. He received by revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, his (Our) gospel and the “doctrine according to godliness.”

                Paul said…
                1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV — Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

                He is THE apostle of THE RISEN LORD JESUS CHRIST. God gave him to us FOR A PATTERN.
                1 Tim.1:
                11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
                12 ¶And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
                13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
                14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
                15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
                16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

                People often miss the fact that Jesus said about himself while he was yet in the flesh…

                Luke 22:37 KJV — For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: FOR THE THINGS CONCERNING ME HAVE AN END.

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19. 10th man July 5, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    Doctrine,
    I’ve read your article and the 506 comments following. I feel you are close to the truth in recognizing the differing teachings to Jews and Gentiles, you err by proclaiming this is something new; a “mystery” / “secret” only revealed to Paul. This so called mystery has been in print 600 – 1200 years before Paul was born.

    God gave one set of instructions (Torah) for all people to live by. Contained within this one set of instructions are differing instructions specific to men, women, children, farmers, priests, and to “Jews and Gentiles”. Therefore in keeping with God’s predetermined eternal plan, the first advent of Messiah and the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 didn’t change the differing specific instructions for Jews and Gentiles into the one and the same instructions for both. Rather they kept to the instructions already given by God 1200 years earlier as recorded in the Torah.

    The good news for Jews and Gentiles is the same; ‘The Messiah has arrived’. However the application to Jews and Gentiles is different. While both applications are a product of unmerited favor (Grace), Jews are offered a renewed Covenant replacing the one they broke. Gentiles are offered the opportunity to participate in this renewed Covenant as much or little as they desire. This is as it has always been, the exception being; participation in the Covenant is through the promised Spirit rather than through legalistic observance.

    “God fearers” and “Gate proselytes” have always been accepted. The early Church simply made the decision to continue to accept Gentiles as they always had been accepted according to Torah.

    However, there has always been a mystery how God would gather the lost exiled scattered to the end of the earth among the nations, descendants of Jacob – now we know – the Gospel to the Gentiles. (Jer 16:14-16)

    Jeremiah 16:19
    “The Gentiles shall come to you from the ends of the earth and say, “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, …..”

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    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 6, 2017 at 7:36 am

       10th man,
       Please see my articles, Paul’s “Mystery” and Paul: Chief of Sinners? God revealed to Paul secrets He had kept hidden throughout the centuries. Paul began the Church, the body of Christ, and the secrets associated with it. Nothing in the Old Testament revealed the Church. It was a secret.

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20. Bill Thomas August 23, 2017 at 10:43 am

    I am trying to explain to another Christian the difference between the kingdom gospel and the gospel of grace. When I show him Acts 20:24, he came back and said read the next verse Acts 20:25. I’m not sure how to respond to that.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 23, 2017 at 11:20 am

       Bill,
       Acts is primarily not a doctrinal book. Its purpose was to show the Jews why the kingdom of God did not come and to introduce Paul’s apostleship. When Paul spoke about the kingdom of God he meant the overall realm of God’s rule, not the earthly kingdom proclaimed in the gospel of the kingdom. Probably the better way to explain this is to show what one believed to be saved in the gospel of the kingdom as opposed to what one believes to be saved by Paul’s gospel. No one proclaimed Christ’s death and resurrection for salvation before Paul. One was saved under the gospel of the kingdom by believing who Christ was, the Messiah, the Son of God, i.e., in His identity, not in His finished work.

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21. Bobbi August 23, 2017 at 3:08 pm

    Bill and Don

    One way you might explain it is that as Jesus was prophesied to come in the OT, and so He did come. This was his earthly ministry. It is also in prophecy. He is the King of the coming earthl Kingdom, and Israel’s Messiah. He and they were Jewish, under the covenants of God.

    The main thing is Paul’s ministry was not prophesied. So thus we have PROPHECY vs. MYSTERY. It is a mystery dispensation, Eph. 3:1-12 unknown by scripture until Paul. This is the gospel of Christ, and the gospel of the grace of God. Acts 20:24, the preaching of the cross according to the revelation of the mystery. Romans 16:25-26

    I think so many people fail to realize that Gentiles were not of this kingdom church or the little flock of Luke 12:32, unless they came through Israel. These were God’s chosen people, who still have redemption coming yet future from our age. Many don’t study enough to realize that there are covenants still in force today, some of which are eternal. God is holy. He keeps his promises. His word is true. The Times of Jesus on earth were for his people. The rest of his work on the cross was not known until Paul was saved and made the apostle to the Gentiles. There is only one apostle to the Gentiles in scripture.

    Don has many articles that go into depth on these things. They helped me so much :) I hope this helps. I know it’s hard till one gets firmly “established”. Also it really helps to study Acts by a right divider.
    The more we study it, the more is revealed!
    It’s awesome that your sharing it! Just awesome!

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22. rodd September 30, 2017 at 7:48 am

    Sir,
    Where is Paul’s mandate to bring in his own gospel; to open the door to the Gentiles; to claim apostleship; to claim meeting Jesus ( Jesus said no one would see Him any more- because He was returning to His Father in Heaven)? Other than individuals in John ch 10 v 16, eg. the WOMAN at the well, Matt ch 15 v 24 and throughout, Jesus said He only came to Israel….who are NOT JEWS !!! ( Jews did not exist until 586BC ie. NO JEWS at SINAI with Moses !!! and Jews were ‘residents of JUDAEA’ which didn’t exist until the exile into Babylon from Judah. Acts ch 2..Peter makes this all clear IF you study it carefully.) The churches teach a LIE…as does Paul.
    Jesus was NOT a Jew..but a Galilean. Galilee was NOT in JUDAEA. (Luke ch 2 v 4 )
    Read John ch 8 v 44 and you will agree with me. ( or you should !) If not, believe 2 John v 9-11. Paul’s so called gospel is way beyond the “doctrine of Christ” is it not?
    These things you will ascertain if you study. Jesus said:- FOLLOW ME. He commissioned the true apostles..which number 12. ( Rev ch 21 v 14) Matthias replaced Judas. Paul meets NOT ONE of the prerequisites to be one. (Acts ch 1 vs 21-22) John ch 5 v43 is worth a thought. Let Paul PROVE himself. Jesus said even He needs a witness for His word to be “truth” John ch 5 v 31 (John ch 8 vs 16-18) Where are Paul’s witnesses? He gives 3 different accounts of how he allegedly met Jesus..and how could he have seen Jesus..(who said He would be in Heaven !….) because Acts ch 22 v 11 says the bright light blinded him! 2 Cor ch 11 v 14 Paul says the devil was transformed into an angel of LIGHT. So how can Paul know who the light was…? devils tend to tell lies !!!
    Evidence…proof…. Paul offers none….and then preaches contrary to the teching of Jesus. You may rubbish all this….but I won’t. We are told to discern the scriptures. Translators have already done much damage that “truth” is obscured. With false teaching, we must be SURE..and the only way is our individual communication with God. We cannot serve 2 masters…..there is ONLY ONE ! Jesus Matt ch 23 v 8. Now that we can believe … sincerely, rodd

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    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 30, 2017 at 8:41 am

       Rodd,
       Jesus stated Abraham was the father of the Jews (John 8.37). The covenant line went from Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob. From Jacob came the 12 tribes, the Jews. The word “Jew” (יְהוּדִי) began as a word to describe those of the tribe of Judah. By the time of the northern invasion, it came to refer to members of all the tribes. Jesus was recognized as the King of the Jews (Matthew 2.2). Jesus said He was a Jew (Matthew 27.11; Mark 15.2; Luke 23.3). As for Paul, Luke wrote the account of Paul’s encounter with the risen Lord and his commission as the apostle of the Gentiles. Do you believe the book of Acts? All of the 12 accepted Paul’s apostleship. Peter recognized Paul’s authority and wrote that Paul’s writings were Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16). James recognized Paul’s authority at the Council (Acts 15) and Peter declared Paul was right and they were wrong (Acts 15.11). Paul did not meet the criteria to be one of the 12, an apostle of Israel. That is why the ascended Lord commissioned him directly, not as an apostle of Israel, but the apostle of the Gentiles, to found the Church, the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 3.10). You have no need for a Bible. Throw it away! You don’t believe a word of it!

       Reply ↓
23. Michael Maddox October 22, 2017 at 2:11 pm

    This is an informative and well thought out article that lays out the differences between Paul and Jesus and the 12.

    I find nothing to disagree with and everything to agree with. The writebyte takeaway might be Christianity, without Paul, if it survived at all, would be a fringe cult on the outside of Judaism, since the 12 disciples were only looking to convert other Jews.

    By opening the message up to the Gentiles, Paul greatly multiplied Jesus’s teachings while backhandedly spreading Judaism, since most Bibles have attached to them a copy of the Torah (in the form of the first books of the Old Testament). It may have been a long time in coming, but the Jews have been blessed by the ascent in Christianity as large numbers of Christians take a benign view of Jews and Israel in comparison to other religions and philosophies that currently exist.

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 22, 2017 at 4:02 pm

       Michael,
       Thank you. But it’s much more than this. Paul’s apostleship was unique. The risen Lord gave him revelations which Paul called secrets that revealed a whole new program that God had kept hidden: the Church, the body of Christ. See my articles, Paul: Chief of Sinners? and Paul’s “Mystery”.

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24. Ron November 6, 2017 at 11:20 pm

    Doctrine, At the time Mark and Luke wrote their gospels, were they saved under the Kingdom Gospel or the Gospel of Grace. If they were saved under the Gospel of Grace before writing their Books of Mark and Luke, it seems logical that they would have provided some evidence of what they previously learned from Paul’s teaching.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 7, 2017 at 7:28 am

       Ron,
       Both were saved under that gospel of the kingdom. But it does not logically follow they would include what they learned from Paul in their gospels. The Gospels are all about God’s earthly kingdom to Israel. The Gospels reveal why the kingdom of God did not come to earth. Luke continued this revelation in Acts and revealed the new program of the Church with the salvation of Paul.

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       1. Ron November 7, 2017 at 12:30 pm

          Don, Do you assume Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all understood the new gospel Paul received from the Glorified Christ at the time they wrote their gospels? If so, did they all trust what Paul taught to the new gentile believers? Could these gentlemen that were saved under the kingdom gospel upon learning the new revelations Paul received from the Glorified Christ, choose to believe both gospels and go to heaven with us at the rapture? I am sorry Don, sometimes my curiosity overwhelms me.

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 7, 2017 at 1:09 pm

             Ron,
             It seems one is in one program or the other, not both. I’m sure they all came to believe Paul’s gospel but they were saved under the kingdom gospel. This was a period of transition. I think its trickier with Luke and to some degree with Mark who worked with Paul. I do not see any of the Twelve participating in the Rapture for their destiny is with Israel—ruling the Twelve tribes.

             Reply ↓
25. Roger Morton November 17, 2017 at 5:12 pm

    Jesus Words clearly have priority over all other writings – the Bible states His priority more than 70 times from Deuteronomy to Revelation. Paul’s words can be assumed inerrant but they are addressed to people like this Heb 10:32-34 “you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33 sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property” ESV. I’ve asked many Christians I admire. They agree they don’t meet that level maturity. The imprisonment, martyrdom, hate by Jews, Romans, and Greeks, loss of security mean that Paul was inherently addressing a different group of people. People that could have simply returned to normal life by just renouncing Jesus. But they did not. As the intro of each of Paul’s and other’s NT writings show they were addressing specific courageous groups of people who suffered incredibly to “endure to the end” – Jesus Words. So where are we addressed in the NT? By Jesus who lays out for the few who are saved clear requirements for salvation. You probably know many of the passages – I’m happy to give them later if you wish. Jesus addresses us who are incredibly rich by Biblical standards (each of us use 100 times more energy than any person in the NT – what incredibly wealth we have !!). Jesus says Luke 6:24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.” ESV. He also says to the church in Revelation that fits us best of the seven Rev 3:14-22

    “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

    15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'” ESV Remember Paul was martyred long before these words were written. Therefore they apply to us – the Christian church – Gentiles and all.

    In other words BUY FROM JESUS or be SPIT OUT of His mouth. Don’t misapply Paul’s teachings to this greed driven century (today people watched 80 hours of media a week) – else your ministry will be like plane without enough gas to get the passengers to their desired destination. JESUS HATES LUKEWARMNESS. and virtually everyone sitting in the pews today is lukewarm by our Savior, our ONLY Savior’s standards.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 17, 2017 at 6:43 pm

       Roger,
       Your comment contains two serious errors. The first is to separate Jesus’ words in His earthly ministry from the entire Bible. Jesus is the author of the Bible. Whether it was Moses, Jeremiah, or Paul, the writings have the same authority. Throughout the prophets we read, “the word of the Lord came unto x.” The Lord is Jesus. Paul received his message directly from the ascended Lord. The second error is that the words you quoted from Jesus were to Israel, not to the Church. The “churches” of Revelation were not members of the body of Christ but Jewish assemblies. Jesus’ earthly ministry was to Israel (Romans 15.8). His contact with Gentiles was extremely limited and certainly had nothing to do with the Church since it did not yet exist. Everything to the Church comes from Paul, from Christ’s heavenly, not earthly, revelations to Paul. In other words, ALL Church doctrine comes from Paul. John wrote BEFORE Paul. This is what the Bible declares. Paul wrote God gave him the mission to complete the Scriptures (Colossians 1.25). 2 Timothy was the last book written and completed the Scriptures. These things are basic and clear to anyone who will believe God.

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       1. DJ October 25, 2021 at 8:59 am

          You state: 2 Timothy was the last book written. Please review the following:

          2 Peter: AD 67-68
          Hebrews: AD 67-69
          Jude: AD 68-70
          John: AD 80-90
          1 John: AD 90-95
          2 John: AD 90-95
          3 John: AD 90-95
          Revelation: AD 94-96

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorOctober 25, 2021 at 10:08 am

             DJ,
             Well aware of these dates. They are wrong. No evidence supports them.

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             1. Joe October 26, 2021 at 11:07 am

                The destruction of Jerusalem and especially the temple was such a water shed/sea change for the Jews/Israel you would think that there would be at least a hint/affect of that destruction (directly or indirectly) and it’s relevance to the nation. just a thought.

                Besides, Paul says in Colossians 1:25 that his assignment was to ‘fulfill the word of God”

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorOctober 26, 2021 at 11:47 am

                   Joe,
                   Yes. No mention of Jerusalem’s destruction was what J.A.T. Robinson called “the dog that did not bark.” Inconceivable in parts of the NT were written after 70 A.D.

                   Reply ↓
             2. Lee Attema May 30, 2022 at 2:46 pm

                Would you be kind enough to post the reference to the right dates. I would agree that it is unlikely that John was late but don’t have support for that.

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorMay 31, 2022 at 8:02 pm

                   Lee,
                   We know from Colossians 1.25 that Paul completed the Scriptures: 2 Timothy is the last NT book. So everything had to be written before about 68 A.D. My guess is that all of John’s writings were in the 50s, when they were still anticipating Israel’s repentance, the Tribulation, and Christ’s return. That all thought this would occur in their lifetime. Is this what you were asking?

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26. Roger Morton November 19, 2017 at 5:25 pm

    Thank you for your swift response. My next 2 weeks is crazy so it will be that long before i can give you the thoughtful response you deserve. But for now 2 questions. 1. If i were to send the 70+ passages on the priority of Jesus’ Words would I dump them here? 2. What is your evidence that the 7 churches were not Christian churches. Thank you and blessings

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 19, 2017 at 6:37 pm

       Roger,
       As I wrote, Jesus’ words are the entire Bible, not just what you find in red. He is the author of it all. As you consider your response, understand that all Church, body of Christ, doctrine comes from Paul. Remove his letters from the Bible and one cannot find today’s plan of salvation. As for the 7 churches, examine the language. It is all Jewish. It is the words of the prophets and Jesus’ earthly ministry. There is not one word concerning the Church, the body of Christ, which the risen Lord gave to Paul to the Church. The book of Revelation is the Day of the Lord. Paul made it clear that the Church is not present during this Day. It is removed (1 Thessalonians 1.10, 5.9; Romans 5.9). This is another reason why the “churches” in Revelation 2-3 are Jewish.

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27. 1123581321 December 1, 2017 at 5:52 pm

    ​I also have been seeking clarity on some of these matters, as it seems that for the Ekklesia to experience unity (as is prayed for by Jesus in John 17) we must have clarity and unity with Jesus Christ.

    Jesus states in (Matthew 23:8-10) “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.”
    This seems clear enough. If Paul is supposed to be our “teacher”, why did Jesus not make it clear that we would need to receive another teacher, who would preach a different gospel, and contribute a higher quantity of words and teachings in the “New Testament” than Jesus’ actual Words?

    Also, considering (Matthew 23:9), why does Paul urge us to accept himself as our spiritual father in (1 Corinthians 4:15-16)? If Jesus instructs us to only consider God the Father our spiritual father, wouldn’t it be unwise to put a human in this role? Or to trust a human who attempts to do so, contradictory to the Words of Christ?

    Jesus states in (Luke 10:18-20) that His disciples have all authority over the enemy. A key part of His instructions to the disciples is to drive out demons (Matthew 10:8). Why then, in (2 Corinthians 12:6-9), does Paul claim that the “Lord” told him to tolerate the messenger of satan to keep him humble? Does Jesus really want us to tolerate demons? And does God really want to keep us humble through “messengers of satan”? Shouldn’t it be the very power of Christ and Gospel of Jesus Christ that keeps us humble? This voice speaking to Paul seems more like a lie from the enemy than the voice of Jesus Christ. Jesus had no tolerance for and complete authority over satan, and passed this authority on to His disciples. Satan seems to be tolerated and empowered in this passage from Paul.

    Also, I have been attending a church where women are allowed to speak. Sometimes even preach from the stage. Paul makes it clear that this is not acceptable in (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). Is this command from “God” still valid today? Or was that command only for a specific “church” at a specific time? If this is the case, and this command is not still valid, can you please explain which commands from the “New Testament” are for specific churches, or are no longer valid because of “context”. For example, is 1 Corinthians not valid to me, because I was not apart of that specific church at that specific time? Paul makes similiar rulings in (1 Corithians 11:2-16). Are these all still eternal commands from God? David states that God’s Word is true, righteous, and eternal (Psalm 119:160). Are all of Paul’s? I don’t want to take anything out of context, but that’s my main question… Do God’s commands have context in which we should obey them, and context when we should not? And are His Commands specific to the “church” I attend? Or are they universal?

    Right after the above passage, Paul commands us to ignore anyone who does not come under Paul’s authority (1 Corinthians 14:37-38). Is it a sin to not come under Paul’s authority? If Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6), why didn’t Jesus tell us that we also have to come through someone else? Can I be a believer in Jesus Christ without going through Paul? It seems from your comments in this thread that you don’t believe that I can? In that case I would echo the questions in the above comments as to those who were saved during Jesus’ actual ministry, under His actual Words, before the gospel of Paul. Also, could I tell a non-believer about God and Jesus with only the Old Testament and Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelations? Or would my message be incomplete?

    Why does Paul have the right to state (1 Corinthians 14:37-38), when Jesus has tolerance and forgiveness for those who speak against the Son of Man (Matthew 12:32)?

    The idea of the separate gospel from Paul, which you seem to acknowledge is the case in your original article, seems to be a root of much confusion. Jesus seems very clear in His original Words. Especially about repentance (Matthew 4:17; Matthew 3:8); carrying our own cross (Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23) and to Love Him by OBEYING HIS WORDS (Matthew 7:24-27; John 15:7; John 15:14; John 14:15; John 12:48). These passages seem to imply that Jesus wants us to obey His Words, and to Love Him through being Christ-like. To the point of laying down our own lives (John 15:12-14), and carrying our own cross. Paul’s separate gospel and many additional words and teachings seem to distract us from the Kingdom building work that Jesus asked us to do (Matthew 6:10). And the gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached (Matthew 10:7). The Grace of God through Jesus is the first step, but what about everything else Jesus commanded us to do in His own Words? Again, if it is JESUS’ WORDS that are the powerful and important thing, it would seem that any teacher keeping us from the power of these words is having more influence for the enemy. If it is Jesus’ Words that we are to obey, why doesn’t Paul more frequently directly quote Jesus’ Words? Wouldn’t it be wisest and safest to go back to what the Messiah actually said, and directly quote His Words as the beginning of all discussions? And until we actually obey Jesus’ direct commands in His own Words, including John 17, wouldn’t it be unwise for the Ekklesia to move on to words from additional teachers?

    If Jesus preached a clear gospel in His earthly ministry, is Paul cursing Jesus and the disciples in (Galatations 1:6-9). God’s Words, Commands, and Prophecies throughout the Old Testament seem very consistent and clear. Especially when looked at holistically. If we believe God’s Words in the Old Testament, and Jesus’s gospel of the Kingdom that he shared in His earthly ministry, without taking into account Paul’s words, are we under a curse from God as Paul states in Galations 1?

    I also have questions as to when to hand people over to satan. Jesus says in (John 6:37) that all who come to Him He will not drive away. When then, should we hand people over to satan, as Paul instructs in (1 Corinthians 5:4-5) and (1 Timothy 1:18-20)? Is handing people over to satan one of the things Jesus asked us to do as His disciples? This is another instance in which satan seems to be empowered, and the power of Jesus Christ not acknowledged.

    I hope it is not inappropriate to transparently bring these questions up as we all grow and walk with Christ. Though it may seem that those seeking clarity on this topic are attempting to bring division or strife, I believe in reality we are attempting to bring clarity and Unity through the Words of Jesus Christ. If we are called to be One with Christ in John 17, and instructed not to have another teacher in Matthew 23, it seems our common denominator should very simply be Jesus Christ, and not take on additional “teachers” after Jesus. I appreciate all your time and effort in engaging believers on this topic, and hope that we all can find some unity and clarity through the process.

    On a simpler note (that hopefully we all can agree on)… Merry Christmas!

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 1, 2017 at 9:36 pm

       1123581321,
       What you are not understanding is that Jesus was a minister to Israel (Romans 15.8). He had nothing to say to the Church until after He saved Paul. In other words, nothing in the Gospels is to the Church. How could it be when it did not exist? Jesus did not reveal anything about Paul or the Church because God’s prophetic program anticipated Israel’s acceptance of Him as the Messiah. Had Israel accepted Jesus the Church would have never come into existence. God had no provision to bless Gentiles apart from Israel. This became a reality when God established the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12.3). But God could not bless Israel when they rejected Him. On the matter of the gospel, which you write Jesus made clear, what is it? Put another way, how is one saved? What does one believe for salvation? How does one become a Christian?

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       1. 1123581321 December 1, 2017 at 11:24 pm

          So you’re saying that none of Jesus’ Words that He directly spoke in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are to the Church? He says repeatedly that it is by obeying His Words and commands that we love Him. Are you saying we should not obey Jesus’ Words?

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          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 2, 2017 at 7:53 am

             1123581321,
             No, that is not what I am saying. To whom did Jesus minister? Jews or Gentiles? Was the Church in existence? Were Jews and Gentiles equal in Christ, filled with the Holy Spirit in Jesus’ earthly ministry? We do not find the Church, the body of Christ, in existence until Paul. Paul revealed the Church from the revelations he received from the risen Lord. Paul is to the Church what Abraham, Moses, and the Prophets were to Israel. Jesus came to fulfill the covenant promises to the Jews (Romans 15.8). The OT contained no hint of anything which we know as the Church. Members of the Church, the body of Christ, obey Christ through obeying the truths Paul received from the ascended, glorified from heaven.

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             1. 1123581321 December 2, 2017 at 2:38 pm

                Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

                All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

                I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

                And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
                I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

                I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

                But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

                If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

                If ye love me, keep my commandments.

                He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

                Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorDecember 2, 2017 at 2:54 pm

                   1123581321,
                   I’m not sure what point you are trying to make in quoting these Scriptures. All are true but Jesus spoke them to His 12 apostles or to the Jews. None are addressed to the Church. The Gospels are Old Testament and concern Israel, not the Church. Jesus’ earthly ministry was to Israel. Unless you understand the difference between God’s program to Israel and His program to the Church, nothing will be clear. This is why people think the Bible is contradictory and confusing.

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                   1. 1123581321 December 4, 2017 at 2:30 pm

                      Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

                      Reply ↓
                      1. doctrine Post authorDecember 4, 2017 at 2:38 pm

                         1123581321,
                         Again, what is your point? To whom did Jesus say these words? Did He speak them to the Church or to the Eleven? They were to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom. They were to go to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then the other parts of the world. This message assumed Israel would accept Christ as the Messiah. The nation refused. The Twelve never went to the nations. They never had a ministry to Gentiles. This passage has nothing to do with the Church. It concerned Israel.

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                         1. 1123581321 December 5, 2017 at 3:01 pm

                            ​To summarize what you have said: the above passage (Matthew 28:19-20), from Jesus Christ, is not addressed to the “Church”? The followers of Jesus Christ. And His Commands and Words in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are not addressed to His Church? His followers. You have said the above 10 verses from Jesus Christ, quoted from the KJV translation, are not addressed to the Church. These passages have nothing to do with the Church? I’m pretty sure that is what you have communicated. You have said this multiple times. I’m just confirming.

                            So Jesus’ Words and commands, which He stated would never pass away, are not for His Church? And His Words are not applicable to you if you’re not from the nation of “Israel”? Wasn’t the start of the Church the believers from His earthly ministry, starting with the disciples? Didn’t Christ tell Peter he would be a foundation for the Church (Matthew 16:18)? You are saying that Peter is not in the Church? And the fellowship of believers in Acts 2, who believed in Jesus’ Words and Jesus’ Gospel, this is not the Church?

                            The disciples were commanded by Christ to make more disciples, from all nations, based on what Jesus taught the disciples through His Words (Matthew 28:19-20). Yet you say this passage doesn’t apply to the Church? And these disciples from all nations Jesus spoke about…are they in the Church or not? Do they obey Jesus’ Words or not?

                            You’re saying Jesus’ Commands and Words shouldn’t be taught to all nations? They’re only for Israel? Where does the Church start and stop? Where is it divided into the two groups you speak of? If someone has a great, great grandfather who is one fourth Jewish, do they follow Jesus’ Words or not? Are they under the first program or the second program? After Paul’s gospel, we have a new program?

                            And Jesus and God made false assumptions about humanity and how the process of the Messiah would unfold? God was clueless? His wisdom found its end? Even though Jesus predicted exactly how everything would unfold in Matthew 24? And gave many warnings about those who did not follow HIS WORDS? But you’re saying that Jesus’ Words are not to His Church? Is (John 17:20-24) addressed to the Church? Jesus didn’t understand while He was being crucified that Israel hadn’t accepted His message? When Jesus says in John 17 “that they may be one”… He actually means there are two different groups and two different gospels? And He had to figure out a new program with God because they were surprised by how Jesus was not accepted by Israel?

                            Even though Jesus said it was HIS WORDS that would never pass away, He didn’t understand that actually His Words would be nullified and need replacing and amending within a few years of His departure? So you’re saying, as a member of Christ’s Church, we do not need to obey Jesus Christ’s Words? Because they are not addressed to us? We should instead obey the words and commands of Paul? Which take authority over the words of Jesus, and sometimes contradict Jesus, because Jesus and God messed up and the Messiah’s Words didn’t accomplish what they were supposed to, so we moved on to new words, and a new teacher. And two groups of people, and two gospels.

                            Also, can you address the questions (referenced verses) in my original post?

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                            1. doctrine Post authorDecember 5, 2017 at 4:07 pm

                               1123581321,
                               The problem with everything you have written is that you do not understand God’s programs. Jesus came as a minister of Israel to fulfill God’s covenant promises (Roman 15.8). Paul wrote the Church was a secret (Ephesians 3.1-7). The Church did not exist until God revealed it to Paul. That is what a secret is—something unknown. You can continue to argue with me or you can believe the Bible. Everything God spoke, He did not address to the Church. Do you keep the Mosaic Law? Have you ever picked up a stick on Saturday or done work on Saturday? If you have, the penalty is death. Jesus ministered under the Mosaic Law. The Church is not under the Law. It is an entirely different entity than Israel. What we have in Paul’s letters are Jesus’ words spoken from heaven to the Church. What we have in the Gospels are Jesus’ words to Israel. If you mix these two programs you have complete chaos. If you would read what I have written instead of trying to state wht I have not said this would make sense. We obey Christ, we keep Christ’s words, by obeying the things He has spoken to us. If you wish to obey Christ’s words in the gospels, then when you are sick and have been healed, go show yourself to a Jewish priest. The problem is, there aren’t any. If you wish to keep Jesus’ words spoken in the gospels, you cannot work on Saturday for that is to break the Sabbath. Jesus commanded keeping the Mosaic Law. You can also not eat anything but “clean” animals. If you are right, Paul was a liar. If so, take Romans through Philemon, cut it out of your Bible, and throw it away. If you wish to know when the Church began, read my article, The Church (The Body of Christ). If you want to understand the gospel, see my article, The Great Hinge.
             2. Aaron November 3, 2021 at 8:28 pm

                Sorry to necro this thread, but I see you responding elsewhere within the last two weeks, so I hope you can provide some clarity to your statement “We do not find the Church, the body of Christ, in existence until Paul.” I see the same church “ἐκκλησίαν” present prior to Paul in Matthew 16, 18; Acts 2, 5, and 8. Saul was persecuting the church “ekklesia” in acts 8, so how does the church come into existence AFTER he was persecuting it?

                Also, could you dig in a little between the difference between Paul’s “mystery” and Gnosticism?

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                1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2021 at 8:57 am

                   Aaron,
                   The word ἐκκλησία means a group of people. Specific meanings depend on context. For example, in Acts 19.32, 39, 41 it is used for a mob, a court, and a crowd. Paul declared that the Church, the body of Christ, was unknown in Ephesians 3. Only Paul declared the Church was “the body of Christ.” This is new language. To be a member of the Church, one must to come to Christ by faith alone, believing Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. This is Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This salvation message was not proclaimed before Paul. Paul declared his gospel was a secret (Ephesians 6.19). Paul specifically declared the Church began with him. See my article Paul: Chief of Sinners? and also The Great Hinge. God gave Paul new revelation, all revelation about the Church. Thus, all Church doctrine is found in Paul’s letters from Romans to Philemon. The gospels and writings of Peter, James, John, and Jude concern God’s prophetic program with Israel and the nations. The Church is not in them. Translators have done a terrible job with “mystery,” μυστήριον, transliterating it, not translating it. It means “secret,” not “mystery.” A secret denotes something unknown. The word “mystery” does not convey this sense.

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                   1. Aaron November 11, 2021 at 9:13 pm

                      Thank you for your reply and for diligently addressing so many inquiries into these matters over the years. Your body of work and responses have helped me begin to reconcile the fundamental tensions between the Paul and the rest of the New Testament.

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28. Joe December 2, 2017 at 12:28 pm

    I wish my tiny mind could wrap itself around this passage. Please explain to me… (and it may help 1123581321 as well) “Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. ”

    2 Corinthians 5:15-20New International Version (NIV)

    15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

    16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 2, 2017 at 12:50 pm

       Joe,
       You’re not alone. It is clear the translators of the NIV had no idea how to understand this passage. Paul is talking about Christ’s earthly ministry—“after the flesh” (KJV). What is significant for members of the Church, the body of Christ, is not Jesus’ earthly ministry but His heavenly ministry. It is from the ascended Lord that all Church doctrine comes. Thus, in the next verse, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new“ it should be translated, “Therefore if any man be in Christ—a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. The words “he is” were added by the translators. What Paul is talking about is not the person becoming a new creation but the believer’s relationship in the Church, the body of Christ. It is the Church, the body of Christ, which is the “new creation.”

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       1. Bobbi December 2, 2017 at 3:07 pm

          Ok… wow that puts a different view on that verse in my mind. If is to be translated “Therefore if any man be in Christ, a new creature”,
          It brings to mind Rom. 8:19-21. Does this “creature” represent the the governing realm in heaven?… I have heard this teaching before, and have pondered it many times.

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          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 2, 2017 at 3:26 pm

             Bobbi,
             Paul is speaking about the new creation, the Church, the body of Christ. In Romans 8, Paul is speaking about the creation subject to the Fall and its hope of redemption.

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       2. Tony September 6, 2022 at 1:07 pm

          Hi Don, hope all is well. Don, would you by chance have any reference points, links, etc. regarding the correct interpretation of 2 Corinthians 5:17; therefore if any man be in Christ-a new creation… Referring to the church being the new creation. I’ve tried to run reference from the Greek, etc., scriptures, etc. to confirm this. Even all of the translations I’ve read so far speak to the person in this context being the new creation. Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is definitely a wow factor for this verse.

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          1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 6, 2022 at 1:21 pm

             Tony,
             I believe Stam says this in his commentary on 2 Corinthians but does not specifically denote the Church. While we are “new” in the sense that we now have the indwelling Spirit, that was not Paul’s point in the verse—he meant was the Church, the new creation that now exists beyond Jew and Gentile. Paul clearly writes that the Church is new, previously unknown, and I am amazed more cannot see this. But this results from not understanding Paul and his unique apostleship.

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             1. Tony September 6, 2022 at 5:02 pm

                Great, thanks Don! The Aramaic Bible in plain English has a translation that is close to what you mentioned above. Really eye opening to see the new creation in this verse referring to the church! Understanding Paul and his unique ministry really does clear up a ton. Thanks again and blessings!

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29. 1123581321 December 5, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    So, the Church was a secret, revealed only to Paul? To be clear, that is what you just said in your reply: “Paul wrote the Church was a secret (Ephesians 3.1-7).”

    Was John 17 a secret? Were the commands of Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20 a secret?
    Did Jesus found His Church in secret? Was Jesus’ ministry a secret? Were the prophecies and promises God made to Israel a secret?

    Jesus seemed to clarify the spiritual significance of the Law and Ten Commandments in His Sermon on the Mount. But you say the Sermon on the Mount is no longer valid? Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are no longer valid? We must instead obey Paul? If so, you still haven’t addressed my questions in my original post. Can women speak in church?

    I did read what you wrote. Multiple times. And it contradicts Jesus. You said multiple times, and have now confirmed, Jesus’ Words are not addressed to the Church. And yet Jesus built His Church around His Words. He states repeatedly that those who love Him will obey His Commands and keep His Words. And yet you are guiding people away from His Words and His Commands. That is a serious matter. Jesus says, “​
    There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day” (John 12:48). It doesn’t bother you that you are guiding people away from Jesus’ Words?

    Through this discussion, the core of the issue is clear. You are saying the foundation of the “Church” is Paul’s words. And there are those who believe the foundation of the Church is Jesus’ Words. And these words are not the same.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 5, 2017 at 7:35 pm

       1123581321,
       This will be my last response. You say what I have written, what Paul wrote, contradicts Jesus. Everything Paul wrote he received from the risen Lord. They are Christ’s words. So it is your position that contradicts Jesus. Your response is a commitment to disobey Christ. The risen Lord revealed things to Paul God had kept secret. My article, Paul’s “Mystery” discusses these. If you do not understand these secrets you cannot begin to understand Christianity or Church theology. The issue before you is will you believe the glorified, risen Christ or reject Him.

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    2. Joe December 5, 2017 at 8:05 pm

       Foundation: 1 Cor chapter 3

       For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

       10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

       11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

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       1. hugh derick jordine December 30, 2017 at 10:40 am

          The mystrey of Jesus and the Apostles lies in

          5Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it, 6″I am the LORD, I have called you in righteousness, I will also hold you by the hand and watch over you, And I will appoint you as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations,

          6He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”

          8 Thus says the LORD, “In a favorable time I have answered You, And in a day of salvation I have helped You; And I will keep You and give You for a covenant of the people, To restore the land, to make them inherit the desolate heritages

          Isaiah – ch 52-53

          26″I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.

          If you call Paul a liar then you call Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zachariah Ezekiel a Lair because they all talk about the Messiah been the Covenant of the LORD. The question is How does a Covenant get Established?
          Every covenant for the People was finalize by commitment and animal sacrifice – Thats why Paul refer to Isaiah without the shedding of blood their can be no forgiveness followed with Deut 32;43 Moses final words of Atonement for the people and land.

          If you understand these verses above you would understand Paul writing to the Gentiles and the rebuke to the Jewish brothers with attitude on the Law and the covenant of Circumcision.
          For it is not the Law that grant salvation but is through the Messiah the living Covenant of God

          Prophetic writings concerning the Messiah are in line with Paul message

          John the baptist says Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the World – Why would John say such a thing, John said it was the Spirit of God who informed him. Just as Jesus asked Where did John got his authority from to preach and baptize?

          In these last days They will all be taught by God
          He will be covenant for the people of Jacob and to the Nations
          He will bear their Sin
          They will look upon the one they have pierced
          This is the man who is the Branch he is the one that will build my house
          He will set up a kingdom that cannot be destroyed

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          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 30, 2017 at 10:54 am

             Hugh,
             These things were not secret. God had revealed them through the prophets. Jesus came to fulfill Israel’s covenant promises (Romans 15.8). What the risen Christ revealed to Paul were secrets. The OT contained no indication God would create the Church, the body of Christ, in which Jews and Gentiles are equal in Christ. God kept hidden the secret of the Rapture. God kept secret the blinding of Israel. God kept secret the fact He would save men and women by faith alone. No one understood the significance of Christ’s death and resurrection in relation to sin. No one knew He would rise from the death. All these things were secret which God revealed to Paul. ALL Church doctrine comes from Paul. Nothing Paul wrote in his letters was known in the OT. You will not find the doctrines of Paul in the OT. It was all new.

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30. DEL-PEIRRO December 27, 2017 at 5:28 am

    Amazing article that has helped me a lot. thank you doctrine and may Almighty God bless you abundantly for this kind of teachings. all those who are against the apostle Paul calling him a liar and a deceiver ,may God have mercy on your souls; some said his coming was not foretold in the old testament , were the 12 apostles’ coming foretold in the old testament??? some said they are following the Lord Jesus Christ according to the gospels , i hope you know that HE taught the LAW and commanded people to offer sacrifices according to the LAW TO THE OF MOSES, how many of the 613 law and commandments do you KEEP??? YOU have no salvation because HE said HE ( Christ) came for the JEWS so you have to wait for the millennial reign of Christ before you can receive your blessings so your SINS are not forgiven yet. IF you doubt the apostle Paul and his writings then you have no new testament because you cannot trust the gospel of Luke and the book of ACTS , YOU cannot also trust Matthew, john , peter, James ,the writer of Hebrews,Jude and even Mark because all these have endorsed Paul’s apostleship so tell me where you are getting your new testament teachings??? Do you circumcise your male kids on the 8th day of the month??? do you go to temple every morning and evening , Sabbath day, new moon day, feasts day to worship GOD ??? do you offer the sacrifices on these days and occasions according to the law??? do you have the levitical priesthood intercessing for you because i don’t think you are a Levi so you cannot offer any kind of sacrifices acceptable to GOD ,you will die… the law of Moses is very complex but some think it is just Sabbath keeping so if you are keeping the sabbath and maybe 1 or 2 laws then you are not following Christ ,there is something WRONG WITH THAT THINKING. Once again thank doctrine and keep it up AND MAY THE GOD of HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU …..AMEN

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31. Stefan M Whitfield January 13, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    In having read your article I find it strange that you acknowledge two separate gospels but attempt to meld the two into one?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 13, 2018 at 7:31 pm

       Stefan,
       What do you think the gospel is? Please define it.

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32. Stefan M Whitfield January 13, 2018 at 7:49 pm

    Teachings of the Messiah as revealed to him by the Most High.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 13, 2018 at 8:27 pm

       Stefan,
       What is the content of the gospel? In other words, what is the message of salvation? How is one saved?

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33. Stefan M Whitfield January 13, 2018 at 7:52 pm

    The Messiah states that the twelve apostles who will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Not thirteen, not fourteen, fourteen and a half or any other number. It’s a one apostle per tribe ratio. Revelation makes it clear that these twelve will retain a special place in the New Jerusalem with their names placed in the foundations of the city. Therefore, we can conclude that there are only twelve assigned seats.Where is paul?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 13, 2018 at 8:25 pm

       Stefan,
       The Twelve were apostles of Israel, not the Church. Read Matthew 19.28. The Twelve had nothing to do with the Church, the body of Christ. Paul was commissioned by the risen Lord as the apostle of the Gentiles. All Church doctrine comes from his letters. Peter, James, John, Jude wrote to believing Jews, not Gentiles. They never had a ministry to Gentiles.

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34. jesus1live January 20, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    Wow some many messages about this topic. Did Paul preach a new gospel? No Did Paul fail to preach repentance? No Do we have a gospel for the Jews & a gospel for the Gentiles ? No

    I believe base on scripture that there is only on gospel and one way to be save, Jesus is the only way. John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

    All the true disciples of Christ (Including Paul) preach the same message in their own way but the same message. When Christ said it was finish it was finish. We ca not pick sentences from the bible and call them doctrine. Paul wrote letter not sentences to the different churches to teach the gospel and address different issues going on with those churches. During the time of the disciples and Paul as it is today the devil was already putting his nasty hands against the believers of gospel with the intent to stop or distort the message of Christ. Paul had to preach to two type of individuals Jews & Gentiles with very different belief systems. Paul preach the freedom in Christ from the Mosaic Law, never did he preach that if you have faith in Christ is OK to sin.
    Romans 6:15-20 From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

    22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 8:1-2 Free from Indwelling Sin
    8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Paul Repentance Message Acts 20:19-21, Act 26:20,

    What about Galatians 5: 13-26 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

    Walking in the Spirit
    16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    Jesus brought the message of his Holy Father . God the father made a way for us to be save thru his son, but not a way for us to continue in Sin. Sin corrupts, destroys and slaves. When I was lost I was in bondage hurting God now I don’t claim to be perfect but I walk by the spirit not by the flesh . Faith in Christ is deliverance form the Mosaic Law & Deliverance from sin. We are still today till all 10 Commandments of God but thru the Son we have now victory over sin. Please read : http://www.jesus1live.com/why-love-fulfils-the-law.html or http://www.jesus1live.com/osas.html

    Please take the time to seek the lord in spirit and truth his word its truth

    Blessings

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 20, 2018 at 1:33 pm

       Jesus1live,
       Questions: what is the gospel by which one is saved today? What must one believe to be saved? Is what in John 3.16 this gospel? Why did Paul say his gospel was a new gospel? Was Paul in error? Why did Paul have to explain his gospel to the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem at the Council if they knew it and proclaimed the same message?

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35. Joe January 23, 2018 at 7:56 pm

    Jesus 1live….You wrote: “All the true disciples of Christ (Including Paul) preach the same message in their own way but the same message.”….Question: Did the 12 teach salvation by believing in the death, burial and resurrection as Paul did? (I Corinthians 15:1-4) No doubt the 12 taught a gospel for their time..see chapter 9 of Luke but read chapter 18 of Luke. The 12 had no idea of the crucifixion. “It was hid from them”…otherwise they would have been waiting at the tomb. It wasn’t until Peter and the other one looked in to the empty tomb that they ‘believed’. If words have meaning it is obvious that the gospel the incarnate Jesus and the 12 taught was different than the gospel that the risen Lord and Paul taught. ….In Galatians chapter 1 Paul warns against teaching ‘another’ gospel other than the one HE (Paul) teaches. What do you suppose would be an example of that ‘other’ gospel?

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36. Dolapo Alli February 25, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    To solve this debacle, it is important to refer to textual criticism. (Fragments of the scriptures (numbering thousands), Dead Sea Scrolls etc) Out of 27 books of the New Testament 14 belonged to Paul majority of the others belonged to his buddies Mark, Luke etc, Mathew’s gospel had 4 conflicting manuscript.
    Firstly, which scriptures are we to use as reference; the 66 books of the protestants, the 73 books of the Catholics or the 81 books of the Eastern orthodox churches. Not to forget the other numerous books that were left out by the council of Nacea in 325.
    Secondly, Jesus hand picked 12 disciples (and not 13) because of the twelve tribes of Israel, the disciples picked one more to replace Judas. Jesus also said he was not sent but to the lost sheep of Israel and the disciples stuck to preaching to the Israelites. Considering the disciples slept, woke, traveled, conversed, eat, drank and prayed with Jesus, (leaving every fine detailed activities they were involved in) then you are inferring that Jesus is a bad teacher if all his disciples misunderstood him after he washed their feet, said Peter was a rock on whom he will build his church and the holy spirit came upon them and the spoke in tongues.
    Thirdly, the devil comes in different forms white light, black light which ever form he wills and he has misled many before now. Did the devil not tempt Jesus after his fasting, so who is Paul?
    Lastly, When God who does not change (James1:17), whom Jesus confessed as ONE and whom all the prophets through the ages fought their people for and testified that HE was one alone, then all of a sudden Paul had another epiphany and he is more correct than the 12 disciples, Jesus, John, Solomon, David, Samuel, Ezekiel, Elijah, Moses, Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, Adam all put together that the LORD YOUR GOD, YOUR CREATORS IS ONE ALONE, INDIVISIBLE WITHOUT PARTNERS; then you need your heads examined asap.

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    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 25, 2018 at 6:06 pm

       Dolapo,
       The “debacle” is not a textual criticism problem. The problem is man’s failure to interpret the Scriptures according to context. Jesus was the best teacher who ever lived and taught the 12 perfectly. But what He taught them had nothing to do with the Church for the Church did not exist. The Rock is Christ—always Christ, not Peter. Peter and the 12 were apostles of Israel and had nothing to do with the Church. Paul declared the Church was a secret, unrevealed before God commissioned him and he wrote that he was the founder of the Church, the body of Christ. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners? Finally, God does not change (His nature) but the way He deals with mankind does change. God’s calling of Abraham was a change, God’s giving Israel the Law was a change. If you read the Scriptures, you will discover that what Paul taught, he received directly from the risen Christ. So, the challenge is do you believe the words of the risen Christ or not?

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37. Big Ness March 20, 2018 at 10:51 pm

    Paul was a persecutor of believers, and was complicit in killing some of them. He never made restitution to those whom he hurt, or the families of those he was involved in killing.

    He was traveling to Damacus with some others when Jesus allegedly appeared to him in a blinding light, speaking to him. We hear not a word from him about exactly who those were who where traveling with him. Seems like they would have made pretty good prospects to continue with him in ministry. Seem like they would find it hard to just walk away from being witnesses to whatever happened.

    The answer’s simple: Saul of Tarsus was what we nowadays call a psychopath. “Yeah, I killed some people; but what was before I got saved. I can’t apologize now. . .it was the old me that did that. I am a new person now, movin’ on with my new life!”

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 21, 2018 at 2:27 pm

       Big Ness,
       You comment reveals you have not read Paul. Consider the following passage:
       12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1.12-17. Believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4), come to know Christ and you will see things differently.

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       1. Big Ness March 22, 2018 at 12:05 am

          The passages you cite do nothing but corroborate my post.

          In 1979, When I was 16, I was scared into a conversion by someone who quoted scripture(s) like you do. I come to Christ and “[saw] things differently.” Over the span of ten years the problems, dissapointments and unanswered questions piled up.

          Eventually I realized my mind had been shackled systematically. Breaking free almost killed me. I am much happier now.

          The Abrahamic religiions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam comprise one big horror show.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 22, 2018 at 8:48 am

             Big Ness,
             I do not know what kind of experience you had in 1979, but I know God is faithful. The Christian life is not trouble-free but those who trust Him will not be disappointed. Your rejection of Paul means you have no hope for he is the vehicle of truth God has provided regarding the Church, the body of Christ. God’s saving Paul shows no one is outside His mercy and grace. If you wish to know God, believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). That is the way of salvation.

             Reply ↓
             1. Big Ness March 22, 2018 at 2:14 pm

                The God of the Bible is as far from “FAITHFUL” as you could possible get. He has the personality and termperatment of a low-IQ drug addict. His history is a history of atrocities and absurdities. If anyone in history was the incarnation of YAHWEH, it certainly was not Jesus, it was Adolph Hitler.

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 22, 2018 at 2:30 pm

                   Big Ness,
                   Your words indicate you are not of sound mind and know nothing of the Bible or God. Trust God, believe the gospel. To reject God’s love is an act of madness.

                   Reply ↓
                   1. Big Ness March 22, 2018 at 3:03 pm

                      I think mass-killing of babies is madness.

                      According to Exodus, hat’s what YAHWEH did in Egypt. He’s mad at Pharoah, so he goes on a Midnight killing spree—all the first born of Eygpt.

                      And if you think about it, there could easily have been a young Egpytian couple who were the first-borns from their respective families. So, if they had 3 kids, age 6, 2 and 6 months, at Midnight, Mom, Dad and their firstborn keel over dead, leaving the 2 year old and 6 month old to just suffer in abject terror while they wait to die of dehydration.

                      But hey, that’s how YAHWEH rolls.

                      Reply ↓
                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 22, 2018 at 3:37 pm

                         Big Ness,
                         Jesus Christ went to the cross for you. He died for you so you might live. Your hatred of God reveals you understand nothing of Him. You think you are better than God or Paul or any Christian. Who do you think you are to judge God? Such prideful, smug, self-righteousness reveals you have become as blind as Pharoah.

                         Reply ↓
                         1. Big Ness March 22, 2018 at 3:57 pm

                            I have accurately described the acts of YAHWEH, God of the Old Testement.

                            I have in no way behaved as smug or self righteous. I have shown great concern for innocent infants.

                            Who am I to judge God? Who are YOU to ask? The Bible tells a story. I read it. I thought about it. I have opions about it.

                            But I guess you read but do not form opinions?

                            You quote the Bible like a typical “Study Bible Person.” Get a study Bible with built-in notes, learn the major stories, doctrines and dogmas. Stick with the main story you’ve been told to stick with. Whatever makes you feel safe and secure.

                            Reply ↓
                            1. doctrine Post authorMarch 22, 2018 at 4:37 pm

                               Big Ness,
                               A day is coming in which you will kneel before God and confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Your pride and arrogance will be brought low. You will see how small and foolish you have been as you enter an eternity of regret. Be wise. Now is the day of salvation.
                      2. Lisa September 29, 2020 at 3:15 pm

                         Hi Big Ness, I know your post here is two years old and you probably won’t see it, but just in case. I struggled with passages like this in the Bible too, and still am really but had the opposite experience to you; I walked away from the Old Testament God, still had a belief in Jesus but no real faith and made the biggest mess of my life, convinced my own version of reality was better. Now I’m in the position of God having welcomed me back again and finally trying to understand him, I read the Bible and ask for his help in understanding his word, and a few things have started to make more sense. Certainly more than they did when I used to just read a random passage, be horrified, and walk away thinking I understood when I had no idea of the context. Having read all of the Bible, I started finding that often the answer to perplexing passages was several chapters (or even books) further back, or ahead. For instance, that the people God commanded the Israelites to fight against and drive out of the land were child sacrificers (not revealed till a long way forward) and as far as the Egyptians go, I believe I’m right in saying that it was the first born boys who died, no adults. The Egyptians had been doing this over and over again to the Israelites’ boys without a second’s thought, and yet God gave the Pharoah a chance to escape retribution, which is thought provoking at least. And I believe God understands our anguish and sense of injustice when we read these passages and can’t wrap our heads around them, rather than condemning us. God is consistently railing at those who harm the innocent, including Jewish people who harm innocent Gentiles, so I think there is more to learn here, I hope you don’t dismiss him entirely but maybe have another look with a good teacher?

                         Reply ↓
38. Bobbi March 22, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Big Ness,
    Religion is such a lie! Not does it do much but trouble us. I did not know the Lord’s salvation until I was 51. There is only one true living God…it is him that I pray you find. In Christ Jesus is true salvation and redemption and life!
    Luke records in the Bible,
    Acts 17:23 KJV — For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
    24— God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 — Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 — And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    27— That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28— For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring…

    We don’t find him in religion… :) Yet, he created us and all things. He knows us better than we know ourselves! This holy God, loves us …
    This is a relationship.

    1 Timothy 1:15 KJV — This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
    16 — Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    This is God’s wonderful Grace… FREELY GIVEN… Though we don’t deserve it not can we earn it. It is his gift :)?

    Rom.5:1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
    4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
    5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    6¶For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
    8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

    Trust him!

    Reply ↓
39. Big Ness March 22, 2018 at 7:27 pm

    One day I will bow down, and then the great and terrible judgement!!

    Thanks for the pathetic threats.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 22, 2018 at 9:12 pm

       Big Ness,
       No threats from me. What I have written is what the Bible says (Philippians 2.10-11). Your quarrel is not with me but with God. I really wish you well.

       Reply ↓
40. Sherry Radcliffe March 24, 2018 at 4:14 pm

    Brother Don, Your teachings on this website and in your book have been a blessing to me and my family! Rightly dividing the Word was a concept I had never heard until 2 years ago when I stumbled onto (was lead) first to Les Feldick’s television program and then to your website. The comments submitted by Big Ness are the most disturbing I have read in response to your articles. The venom in his thoughts is nauseating. The vehemence against Paul being disciple to the gentiles and disbelief of the teachings of our risen Lord and Savior Christ Jesus (also expressed in other comments) show that Satan is working non-stop to mislead and distort. Praise God for those such as yourself and Les Feldick who teach the Word rightly divided. We pray that eyes and hearts will be opened through your efforts. God bless you!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 24, 2018 at 4:42 pm

       Sherry,
       Thank you! God bless you and may the Lord continue to enlighten your understanding.

       Reply ↓
    2. victoria peace green February 4, 2020 at 6:23 pm

       Dear Sherry,
       Thank you for your honest and open remarks…seeking the Word in context and the text to which one feeds anohter. You are so right, Satan is alive and yet he knows he is dead; and he is in the business of grabbing all the ‘fence sitters’ and the ones that climb over the fence instead of the narrow gate. Thank you Yeshua for your Holy Spirit and the gift of discernment, right?! Don and this website are pearls for us who hunger and thirst to know more of our Shepherd and his watch care. Pearls are not to be cast to swine. Jesus I think said that amen?! Swine being those who gobble up and spit out without letting the Truth settle down in their bellies so as to feed them via the Holy Spirit. Jesus came at just the ripe time in history and bought us back with his priceless sacrifice of blood and then….and then ROSE up defeating death…defeating Satan’s lies….Giving us at the moment of spiritual rebirth, eternal life with HIMSELF!!!!! No matter……Jesus comes and when he truly does come inside a heart, He transforms by giving us immediately a brand new heart!!!!! To know we are his. Thank you Don and one day we will see you in eternity!!

       Reply ↓
41. Bohrds August 3, 2018 at 3:11 am

    Hi Doc, this is such a blessed thread! There is so much wisdom from here. :) Thank you very much. As a new Christian, I’ve learned a lot from this just today. I cannot contain it. hahah! will continue to read it later..
    This is actually in time for me. I just “re-read” Matthew. And one verse struck me and got me a little bid sad but at the same time curious, was Matthew 15:24. Thanks God, I’ve come across to this website.
    By the way, one of my interests is to study why people in the Christianity have different versions of the Good News. This article/thread is such a blessing. :) I’m from the Philippines which is dominantly Catholic.

    P.S. I’ve bookmarked this web. :)

    Reply ↓
42. Roslyn Williams September 23, 2018 at 2:28 pm

    This was truly a refreshing read and I agree with it 100%. There are things that
    God will not change like his love, mercy, and blessings for us. But when things have a way of going awry, He has to dispense with the original and start something else. You can see the changes all the way through the bible. So far he has changed six times, (there will be a seventh) at this time we are in the sixth dispensation. The dispensation of grace. The fifth dispensation was the dispensation of the Mosaic Law. The law could not bring salvation, and the Jews could not keep all the laws. So the Lord started to fulfill OT prophecy by coming to earth to save all the Jews with the Kingdom gospel and baptism. But, the Jews didn’t believe Lord Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. Lord Jesus gave them two chances but they rejected Him both times. So after He the finished work of the Cross, he sent the promised Holy Spirit to some Jewish believers. Since there was not going to be an earthly Kingdom, Lord Jesus Christ saved Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul went to Arabia for 3 years when Christ Jesus revealed the then unknown gospel and doctrine to Paul. This revelation was a mystery from before the beginning of the world. Since Paul had carried the new Jewish converts to the Sanhedrin for punishment, the 12 didn’t trust or believe him. But, eventually, Peter and Paul came to an agreement that Peter would go to the Jews and Paul would go primarily to the gentiles. Jesus Christ gave Paul a new gospel and new doctrine, The gospel is the finished work of the Cross, and the doctrine is located in the words of Paul’s epistles. During the sixth dispensation, we are the believe and live the Revelation of Mystery of Jesus Christ as revealed to Paul. Christ Jesus will once again work with the Jews in Tribulation. The gospel will then revert back to the Kingdom gospel. Because the Kingdom will be built on earth after Tribulation. This is a very simple summary of events, but hopefully it will help some of you tie things together. God Bless you all, I truly believe and understand your frustration.

    Reply ↓
43. Pam Nichols October 16, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    Don,

    Your article was great. Praise God! I used to think the entire New Testament was doctrinal for us today, the Body of Christ. I’m so thankful He’s shown me it’s not! Understanding Paul’s uniqueness clears up a host of issues I ran across back then! Anyway, maybe you’d be willing to check out my site churchageisdifferent.com. Let’s work together until He comes!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 17, 2018 at 9:30 am

       Pam,
       Thank you. Yes, understanding Paul’s unique apostleship is the key to understanding the Church as well as the rest of the Scriptures. Thank you for your site. God bless you.

       Reply ↓
44. Patrick October 29, 2018 at 8:09 am

    I have come from a religious background where I was brought up. I had never read the Bible until I heard christians preach about been “born again”. for years I was tossed to and fro, and went from one denomination to another. It was when I was shown the difference in Paul’s writing. I came to understand
    Paul’s gospel. I had preached another gospel for years. But now finally I know Christ died for our sins… 1 Corinthians 15:3,4. The scriptures has become so much clearer now and as I continue to read daily I am learning more as I go through life. People cannot understand scripture unless they get saved, so it is our responsibility to preach the gospel first to them so they can not only see but have peace with God and forgiveness of sins and much much more.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 29, 2018 at 8:42 am

       Patrick,
       Thank you and may the Lord continue to bless your understanding. The Scriptures become clear only when one understands Paul’s unique apostleship, that he was not an addendum to the 12 but God’s apostle to begin a whole new program, the Church, the body of Christ. When one grasps this confusion and contradictions vanish. Most of Christendom is ignorant of this and this is why we have thousands of denominations and church affiliations.

       Reply ↓
45. Mosha Ganta November 13, 2018 at 1:18 am

    Im appreciated by studying the materials that found by this site.

    Reply ↓
46. JC Brickson December 19, 2018 at 9:53 am

    Doctrine Author:

    Do you believe Deuteronomy 17:6 and John 8:14-17? In these scriptures the Bible teaches that a witness is established to be true by the word of two or three but not by the word of one. Please tell me who other than Paul confirms his witness? Do not say it is Luke because Luke only reports what Paul claims. Do not say it was the Lord because any statements supposed to have been made by the Lord concerning Paul, those are actually statements from Paul telling what the Lord supposedly spoke to him, so once again we are left with only Paul’s witness.

    Christ commissioned 12 disciples to do a work and later Paul comes along with a totally different gospel and he alone is a witness to this personal commission to change the gospel. Where are the two or three witnesses to confirm Paul’s record?

    Also, you’ve stated a couple of times that Jesus did not tell the 12 to go to the Gentiles, but that is an inaccurate statement. In Matthew 28:19 Jesus tells his disciples to go preach his teachings to ALL NATIONS. The word nations is translated as “gentiles” and even Paul uses this same term in Rom. 11:13. In Acts 10, the Lord by the leading of the Spirit sent Peter to Gentiles with the message from the Lord that you’ve admitted is different from the message Paul delivered to Gentiles. How can that possibly be? Why would the Lord tell one group of Gentiles one thing and something totally different, according to Paul, to other Gentiles?

    Please address the fact that Jesus did indeed instruct the disciples to preach to all nations and the message Christ told the disciples to preach to the Gentiles is mysteriously different than the gospel Paul started preaching to Gentiles.

    Thanks!
    JC

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2018 at 3:43 pm

       JC,
       1. I’ve answered this question so many times I’ve lost count. All of the apostles accepted Paul’s ministry. This is clear from the Jerusalem Council. If the other writers—Jude, John, Matthew, Mark, James, Peter—did not accept him they would have certainly noted this for Paul was the biggest thing going after his salvation. Luke has to be considered also since he not only wrote Acts but his gospel. Mark wrote his gospel and was a traveling companion of Paul and Paul mentioned him in his last letter. James met with him not only in Acts 15 but in Acts 21. Surely they would not have accepted Paul at the council if they did not think he was a genuine apostle. Peter wrote in his last letter to Jews that Paul had written them (Hebrews) and that Paul’s letters were Scripture just like the OT writings (2 Peter 3.15-16). So we have many witnesses. Finally, if you don’t accept Paul you have to throw out every book in the NT except Matthew and Jude because everyone else affirmed Paul’s apostleship.
       2. I have not stated that Jesus did not tell the 12 not to go to Gentiles. I have stated that they did not go to Gentiles because Israel refused to repent. Had they been going to Gentiles the Lord would not have had to command Peter to go to the house of Cornelius. We have no record that Peter every had a minstry to Gentiles beyond this one encounter. Nor any of the other of the 12. Had Israel repented, they would have gone to Gentiles according to the outreach plan the Lord stated in Acts 1.8. The earthly ministry of Jesus and the Twelve was focused upon Israel, not Gentiles. It was to fulfill the prophetic program (Romans 15.8). But this program depended upon Israel’s repentance. When it was clear the nation would not repent, the Lord saved Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles and created a new program, the Church, the body of Christ, through him. Paul revealed this new program through revelations and secrets he received directly from the Lord. Everything Paul wrote he received directly from the Lord except when he explicitly stated that he wrote “not by commandment.”

       Reply ↓
47. Kagame sebatware January 3, 2019 at 1:43 am

    This is the clearest article I’ve ever read in my life about the gospel of jesus and Paul’s. Thank you very much.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 3, 2019 at 8:12 am

       Kagame,
       Thank you. I’m glad the article was helpful to you.

       Reply ↓
48. Albert January 28, 2019 at 9:58 am

    It amazes how we become blind to the obvious message clearly given to us in the scriptures. Jesus and Paul are not preaching a different message but the same. The problem with such an assertion is that we twist Paul’s words out of the context to create a contradictory message as Peter so warned us some would do in his second letter ” just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”

    Both Paul and Jesus spoke of the Kingdom and this was also mentioned by John in his last book.
    In Paul’s writing there are fourteen direct references to God’s “kingdom. Pauline references are Rom 14:17; 1 Cor 4:20; 6:9, 10; 15:24, 50; Gal 5:21; Eph 5:5;
    Col 1:13; 4:11; 1 Thess 2:12; 2 Thess 1:5; and 2 Tim 4:1, 18. These fewer references than the gospels had from Christ but ,however, do not mean the kingdom is insignificant to Paul. Kingdom truths are located in his writings.

    When Paul uses the term “kingdom” he does not define it, indicating that his
    audiences probably had prior knowledge about its meaning. Several of Paul’s references
    indicate who will not enter God’s kingdom. He also refers to our leaving the kingdom of darkness to God’s kingdom. Paul refers to those who worked with him were “coworkers
    for the kingdom of God” (Col 4:11). These verses reveal a strong connection between the gospel and the kingdom.

    Christ did NOT defined the “kingdom of heaven” as Israel’s prophetic earthly kingdom.
    Christ clearly stated this to Pilate in John 18:36 with the following: “Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.” The disciple asked Christ when the kingdom would be restored to Israel in Acts 1 and Christ answered with the following: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    The problem with such distortions is not the scripture but Peter stated that it is ignorant and unstable do with the scriptures to create such contrasting narratives.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 28, 2019 at 11:04 am

       Albert,
       Your statements are the reason why there is such confusion in Christendom. If you think Jesus in His earthly ministry proclaimed the same message as Paul, that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are the same, that God did not do something entirely different with Paul than He did with the Twelve you cannot get past first base in understanding the Scriptures. When Paul spoke of the kingdom, he meant the realm of God’s rule. When the kingdom is spoken of in the gospels and by the Twelve, it is strictly the earthly kingdom God promised through the prophets. All of Israel’s hopes were set in this earthly kingdom. None of the Church’s hopes are set in the earthly kingdom. Paul declared the Church has heavenly citizenship. These are two entirely different programs. John 18.36 reads, Ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμὴ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, “My kingdom is not of this world.” “Of this world” is a genitive of source, not a genitive of location. Jesus was telling Pilate that the establish of His kingdom would not come through earthly power but from heavenly power. He did not declare it would not be on earth. Had He, He would have contradicting hundreds of prophetic passages.

       Reply ↓
       1. Lisa September 29, 2020 at 3:42 pm

          I’m sorry but I don’t understand your teaching that Jesus was purely referring to the earthly kingdom, in light of the above quote from John, but also Luke, where Jesus says ‘The Kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ for you see, the Kingdom of God is in your midst.’ In what way could he be referring to an earthly kingdom here?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 29, 2020 at 4:47 pm

             Lisa,
             It’s not surprising since that passage has been mangled by most preachers. Please see my article, The Gospel of the Kingdom.

             Reply ↓
          2. Alicia November 1, 2021 at 7:47 am

             Lisa,
             If you ever hope to understand the Bible you must put away these mangled, very “loosely” translated versions of the Bible, which really cannot be accurately described as translations at all, but are wrong interpretations of earlier wrong interpretations . . . And so it goes on and on as we now end up: most Christians thinking they are studying the Bible, when what they actually have in their hands does not, in many passages, even resemble the meaning in the original language.

             Your quote of the verse from Luke tells me you are using one of these mangled variations on God’s Word. When you study the New Testament, have a good interlinear Bible handy so you can see the meaning of the Greek words used for yourself. Here’s a good one: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1.htm

             Don has faithfully done this for us and word for word translated the entire New Testament straight from the Greek. You’ll be amazed comparing your current version to this translation. Don’t take Don’s word. Test for yourself whether he’s been faithful to the original language. Your testing will transform your Bible study. Buy it here:
             https://smile.amazon.com/New-Testament-Don-Samdahl/dp/0999468960/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+new+testament+samdahl&qid=1603053628&sr=8-1

             Having a copy of his translation alongside my KJV has really helped me become more proficient in Bible word studies—-You cannot just buy any version of the Bible, read it, and think you are doing well. That’s why God warns us to STUDY the Bible and study it RIGHTLY DIVIDED (2 Timothy 2:15). Think back to your high school or college days. Recall the most intense studying you ever had to do before a big exam, taking the text apart, researching, referencing and cross referencing, etc. That’s what we should do ever day with God’s Word. It is very hard WORK, and time-consuming (it’s far beyond a daily “feel good devotional passage reading”), but oh, SO rewarding!
             Blessings!

             Reply ↓
49. Gehan Wijesinghe February 9, 2019 at 10:45 am

    I was putting off writing a reply ( a response) to a Jehovah’s Witness friend of mine ( an elder in local body), who has been writing to me that I have shifted to “junk food” as I had stopped associating the Witnesses since I learnt (guided by the Lord) through the internet, the concept of Age of Grace under the dispensation, since such a response would need a lot of information. Recently he snet me an article about the paradise earth and if he could see me in the paradise earth ( sort of a warning that unless I fall back on the JW faith it could be late for me and I could miss the chance). It was very dificult for me to convince him and them of the difference between the Kingdom of Heaven ( as preached by Lord himself) and the Body of Christ under the Age of Grace revealed thorugh Paul.
    Thanks to this article I could simple copy this and send it to him so he would have all the scriptural references for my claim.
    I ALSO READ A LOT OF CONTRIBUTIONS ABOUT THE STAGE OF APOSTLE PAUL IN THE BIBLICAL LANDSCAPE AND HOW DEGRADED HE HAD BEEN BY MOST OF THEM. YES, IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE TOTAL BIBLE ( THE WHOLE BIBLE) HAS BEEN PUT IN PLACE AND PRESERVED BY GOD, YOU COULD SAY THAT PAUL WAS A GATE CRASHER AND WE HAVE ONLY HIS OWN WORDS TO RELY ON ETC ETC. SUCH ARGUMENTS WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BE COUNTERED TO THEIR ENTIRE SATISFACTION ( AGREEMENT). IT ONLY SHOWS THAT THOSE WRITERS HAVE MECHANICALLY READ/HANDLED THE BIBLE BUT HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT OR FAITH REQUIRED TO HAVE THAT UNDERSTAND WITHIN THAT THE BIBLE IS WHOLLY TRUE AND THERE IS NO ROOM TO QUESTION IT. YOU COULD ARGUE WITH THIS PREMISE. BUT ONLY A SAVED PERSON COULD MAKE SUCH A CLAIM.
    I KNOW THIS AS I HAVE BEEN A BORN BUDDHIST AND CALLED TO BE SAVED BY THE LORD, THE REASON FOR WHICH I AM UNABLE TO COMPREHEND OR DEFEND.
    Thanks for the great article and I know you have been guided by the Lord in this endeavour.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 9, 2019 at 12:11 pm

       Gehan,
       Thank you. May the Lord continue to give you understanding.

       Reply ↓

50. Pingback: More Differences: Yeshua vs. Paul’s Gospel! | Kingdom Economics

51. Keith February 21, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    Doc,

    I see a lot of Christians very concerned about the “Depart from me…” statement of Jesus, concerned that they might hear that one day. Can you explain who Jesus would say that to, in what time-frame, and for what reason? As I understand it, it is not a concern a Christian should have.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 21, 2019 at 8:41 pm

       Keith,
       Jesus said He will speak these words to those who are alive at the end of the Tribulation before setting up His kingdom. This specific judgment will be against those who did not help believers during the Tribulation (Matthew 25.31-46). Paul wrote that all who believe his gospel are saved and nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8). Paul wrote that Christ will judge all mankind on the basis of his gospel (Romans 2.16). Anyone who has believed it has nothing to fear. Christ will judge all unbelieving mankind at the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20).

       Reply ↓
       1. Craig February 23, 2019 at 6:28 am

          Don, concerning Matt 7:22 where it talks about people saying didn’t we perform miracles in your name, etc and Jesus says I never knew you, is this talking about false christians and what they did during their lifetime speaking at the white throne judgment as opposed to during the tribulation?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 23, 2019 at 9:37 am

             Craig,
             It’s not clear. Perhaps both.

             Reply ↓
52. Kat March 25, 2019 at 8:59 am

    I don’t understand how people can say that anything that is supposedly said by Jesus is 100% right but what is said by Paul may be wrong or right because Jesus is God and Paul was human. If Paul interjected in his own sinful thoughts and ideas and the Holy Spirit didn’t guide or guard what Paul wrote down for us, then how can we believe anything since Jesus never actually wrote down anything? People like Paul did. If Paul’s writings are full of error, arrogance and pride as some claim they are then how can we know the other writings about what Jesus said or did are correct? How do we know that people weren’t making things up about Jesus in the same way they claim Paul made things up, simply because of being human and full of sin.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 25, 2019 at 10:43 am

       Kat,
       The people who criticize Paul are not Christians. One cannot know God apart from Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Such people are deceivers, agents of Satan. Everything Paul wrote, he received from the risen Lord.

       Reply ↓
53. Brian Kelley March 25, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    Don, I find it ludicrous that many of the Pauline detractors assert that Paul either ‘probably’ or ‘did not exist’. They’ll argue that Paul is not mentioned by the earliest secular/pagan sources as Christ is. However, the early church fathers such as Clement of Rome, Ignatius and Polycarp mentioned Paul and his letters. And Ignatius did so despite his doctrinal aberrations. Again, the satanic deception nonsense continues. These arrogant ‘critics’ are basically trying to defy scriptural truth.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 25, 2019 at 2:40 pm

       Brian,
       A lot of people live in an imaginary world these days. The god of this world is busy.

       Reply ↓
54. Charlie March 27, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    Trying to write an article about how something works is hard. Try it sometime. It is also hard to express ones feelings (like this comment). However:

    Put yourself in the place of the authors of the new testament (whoever you think they are). If you found it hard to express your thoughts don’t you think they did? Then take the position of the men who translated from Greek to Latin and then to English. Could they have made an error? Apply this to 2000 yrs ago. How can anyone in this day and age really comment on what was written in the past?

    If you believe in the God of the Bible and you believe what is written in the Bible then trying to parse out what this and that means, who wrote what epistles etc etc is fruitless.

    Have FAITH. Faith that there is a supreme being (GOD). The Bible is inspired by God, He sent his son Jesus to die for our sins, Jesus arose from the dead and is in heaven siting at the right hand of God.

    Finally, read and memorize Matthew 22:34-40. Practice versus 37-39 loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 27, 2019 at 1:29 pm

       Charlie,
       God has oversee His communication to us. The Scriptures are God-breathed. God superintended their creation. We have thousands of copies which can be compared. There are hundreds of thousands of variants, but when all is said and done, the effect upon the readings is trivial. Translating the Scriptures is not that difficult. We have a very good idea about what they said and mean. The most important Scriptures for us, for members of the Church, the body of Christ, are Paul’s letters They contain the message of salvation all doctrine for the Church.

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       1. Charlie March 29, 2019 at 10:10 am

          How about this? Thoughts and ideas are never new. They are built upon from something previous. Therefore Paul’s letters are merely relating what Jesus taught and what Paul learned from the teachings he received as a Pharisee and his own ideas ( as he so states in many of his letters).

          Your points on salvation: It isn’t who the message of salvation is directed to (Jew or Gentile) it is what is in that message

          You said “Thus, we must conclude water baptism ceased during Paul’s ministry and has no Scriptural support as a Christian practice today.” Paul ceased baptism because he did not want the act of baptizing reflecting (as he states) on himself. Paul did not say baptism was wrong.

          You said: “Paul’s gospel was that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This gospel was not preached during Jesus’ earthly ministry or by the Twelve”. Obviously Jesus was not dead and could not preach “Christ died for our sins”.. However Jesus did say “follow me” many times. Isn’t that the message Paul is giving. Put another way if you are saying one only has to believe ” Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead” what substance does that have? NONE! What are the sins he died for? What is this rose from the dead? There is a lot more to that and you have to go back to what Jesus taught not Paul.

          I think you are putting too much emphasis on what Paul and others conclude rather than what Jesus is teaching.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 29, 2019 at 12:31 pm

             Charlie,
             On the contrary, Paul declared the things he wrote were unknown before him. They were revelations from the risen Christ, secrets. Over and over Paul spoke of these revelations and secrets. No one proclaimed it before him. Paul wrote there was “one baptism” (Ephesians 4.5). That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit who baptizes the believer into the body of Christ. 1=1, not 2. Water baptism has ceased. Paul declared his gospel was a secret. Even after Christ rose from the dead, Peter did not tell the Jews that Jesus died for their sins and rose from the dead. The reason he didn’t is that this gospel was unknown. Paul’s gospel, believing that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead is how one is saved, how one becomes a Christian. Paul declared that anyone who proclaims another gospel is accursed. Everything Paul wrote he received from the risen Christ. When you say, “what Jesus is teaching,” you are only thinking of what He said in His earthly ministry. You are not considering what He taught in His heavenly ministry. That is what Paul wrote.

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             1. Charlie March 30, 2019 at 12:35 pm

                And there is in 2 Corinthians 12:7-8 “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (KJV)

                To me it looks like God is putting a brake on Paul’s ministry. Was Paul, in his writings, saing something that was wrong?

                Then there is Paul writing about the last supper in 2 Corinthians12:7. No where in the Bible does it say that this is to be repeated forever. If you read Matthew 26:27, Mark 29: 23-25 and Luke 17-19 it does not say the last supper has to be replicated in the church.

                So you are saying Paul does not believe water baptism. After you read the above passages on the last supper are you saying he believes in communion?

                You can say all you want about the apostle Paul and why his writings are correct but it is God and Jesus Christ that is important and that is what the Gospels are all about not the 13 books supposedly written by Paul.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 30, 2019 at 1:06 pm

                   Charlie,
                   If you want to have eternal life, if you want to be saved from sin and death, you have to come to Christ by Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). There is no other way. The risen Lord gave revelations and secrets to Paul that He had kept hidden. God was not trying to put a brake on Paul. He knew Paul and did what was best for him. Christ gave and showed Paul things no one else had ever known or seen. The risen Lord communicated to Paul about the significance of the Lord’s supper (1 Corinthians 11.23-27). We are to keep it until the Lord returns. What you must understand is when you read Paul you are reading the words of Christ from heaven just as when you read Moses and the prophets you are reading the words of God. So while Paul is the writer, he is communicating the things Christ told him. To criticize Paul is to criticize Christ. All Church doctrine, all of it, comes from Paul. No Church doctrine is found in the gospels or in the writings of Peter, James, John, Jude. They wrote to Jews under the Law, Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom, not to members of the Church, the body of Christ.

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                   1. Charlie March 31, 2019 at 11:04 am

                      Interesting. So, all the books of the Bible should be ignored and I just have to read the 13 books written by Paul (or supposed to be written by him)?

                      Wow. Lets’ see. Who created the world and everything in it? Oh, that was recorded in Genesis but I don’t have that book because Paul didn’t mention it.

                      To try and interject OUR thoughts and ideas on what the scripture mean is erroneous.

                      John 3:16-For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Oh, excuse me John wrote that to the Jews not to the rest of the world.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 31, 2019 at 12:05 pm

                         Charlie,
                         Who said any books of the Bible should be ignored? I didn’t. Maybe you think so? All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable (2 Timothy 3.16). All Scripture is FOR us but not all Scripture is TO us. If you think all Scripture is TO us then if you have ever picked up a stick on Saturday, the Mosaic Law says you are to be stoned to death. Is that what you believe? John 3.16 says nothing about Christ’s death on the cross for our sins and His resurrection. No one is saved today apart from believing Paul’s gospel: Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead. John 3.16 does not tell us this. It is by Paul’s gospel that one is saved and it is by Paul’s gospel that God will judge the world by Jesus Christ (Romans 2.16). Paul wrote that everything before was written for our learning (Romans 15.4) and for examples (1 Corinthians 10.11). But all Church doctrine comes from Paul’s letters. Keep this straight and confusion will end.

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55. Bruce Ives April 15, 2019 at 4:26 pm

    Brother Samdahl,
    I would very much like to know how you interpret Mt. 18:23-35 in the light of Jesus’ teachings being for Jews living under the Old Covenant Mosaic Law.
    I really appreciate your taking the time and effort to reply.
    Bruce Ives

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 15, 2019 at 4:44 pm

       Bruce,
       God’s forgiveness under the gospel of the kingdom required one to forgive to receive God’s forgiveness. See Matthew 6.12, 14-15.

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56. Stanley Kaundula April 17, 2019 at 4:26 am

    Awesome website. Learning a lot. God richly bless you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 17, 2019 at 6:28 pm

       Stanley,
       Thank you. May the Lord bless your studies.

       Reply ↓
57. Drew Costen August 18, 2019 at 10:08 am

    While I agree with 99% of what you write about the topic of rightly dividing the word of truth (although we disagree on a number of other topics that I won’t get into here), I’ve noticed you often say Peter claimed “Jews now had to be saved as Gentiles.” I don’t believe that Peter ever actually truly understood Paul’s Gospel (or ever joined the body of Christ), nor do I think he actually meant what it sounds like you mean here. He did say, “But through the grace of the Lord Jesus we are believing, to be saved in a manner even as they” (CLNT), but I believe he was just telling James and the rest that Gentiles could also be saved as demonstrated by Cornelius, and that they shouldn’t be put under the Mosaic law. But I don’t believe Cornelius himself ever joined the body of Christ. I believe he was saved under, and likely remained a proselyte of, the Gospel of the Circumcision rather than the Uncircumcision.

    All that said, I appreciate your website and that you’re sharing the truth that the Good News has to be rightly divided.

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 18, 2019 at 1:48 pm

       Drew,
       Thank you. Paul wrote that anyone who did not proclaim his gospel was accursed (Galatians 1.6-9). He wrote this after the Jerusalem Council. Paul could not have written this prior to the Council. So Peter, and everyone else, after the Council had to proclaim Paul’s gospel or be under a curse. Peter’s statement in Acts 15.11 is quite clear (though the CLNT translation makes it somewhat unclear). Peter declared that from then on, Jews had to be saved like Paul’s Gentiles. He stated this because that was not what they had believed (that was the point of the Council). I doubt Cornelius was a member of the body of Christ but I hesitate to state this dogmatically.

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       1. Craig August 19, 2019 at 4:33 am

          Don, Peter and James were saved by the gospel of the kingdom. They were not accursed. That was the plan of God. Why would they then need to be saved by Paul’s gospel?

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          1. doctrine Post authorAugust 19, 2019 at 8:34 am

             Craig,
             Yes, they were saved by the gospel of the kingdom. They did not need to be saved again. What Peter stated in Acts 15.11 was that from then on everyone must come to Christ through Paul’s gospel. That is why Paul wrote in Galatians 1 that anyone who proclaimed a gospel other than his was accursed.

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58. Drew Costen August 18, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    Ah, now I understand why you’ve been writing that. I briefly considered this idea at one time, but then I discovered that Paul actually used two distinct Greek words rather than one to refer to the Gospels that weren’t his being preached when he spoke of a “different” (heteros [ἕτερος]) Gospel and “another” (allos [ἄλλος]) Gospel in this letter. “Heteros” basically means “other of a different sort” while “allos” means “other of the same sort,” so one was “another/allos” (fully legitimate, just like Paul’s) Gospel being preached by Peter (even after the Jerusalem Council), and one was a “different/heteros” Gospel, that wasn’t even “another/allos” actual Gospel at all like Peter’s was, but was rather an adulterated mix of Peter’s Gospel and Paul’s Gospel that couldn’t save anyone. Likewise, Paul wasn’t saying people who taught that there were other Gospels were under a curse, since he did so himself just 24 verses later; he was only teaching that those who would preach any other Gospel to the body of Christ than the one they had already received as something they should follow were, but Peter and the rest of the apostles could preach their particular Gospel as something to be followed to anyone that they wanted to without fear as long as it wasn’t to members of the body of Christ.

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 18, 2019 at 8:44 pm

       Drew,
       The change of wording for “another” strengthens the case I’ve made. Paul wrote the Galatians that they were abandoning Christ for “another” ἕτερον gospel (a different gospel) but that it was not “another” ἄλλο, that is, the same that he had proclaimed. To ensure he was understood correctly, he continued by saying that if anyone proclaimed a gospel that was not what he had preached and which they had received they were accursed. Paul had proclaimed and the Galatians had received Paul’s gospel, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. Thus, if Peter or anyone preached the gospel of the kingdom or any other gospel they were under a curse. Everyone must now preach Paul’s gospel for salvation. What Paul was reiterating in Galatians 2.7 was a recollection of the past (verse 8 has aorist tenses). That was over other than the audiences (Galatians 2.9)–Paul would go to Gentiles and Peter to Jews.

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59. Drew Costen August 19, 2019 at 9:33 am

    I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s the best translation or interpretation of the passage. I think the NASB and CLNT get the closest to this:

    “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.” – NASB

    “I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ.” – CLNT

    So I see it as Paul saying they’re deserting the Gospel that Paul taught them for a “different” (and illegitimate) Gospel (not another legitimate Gospel that Peter taught but rather a different one altogether that the Judaizers are teaching) that isn’t even another (legitimate) Gospel at all like Peter’s is.

    The problem with Peter coming around and accepting Paul’s Gospel at the Jerusalem Council is that he would have then joined the body of Christ rather than remained in the Israel of God (two distinct groups), and I don’t believe he (or the rest of those at the Council) ever did. Aaron Welch wrote a good set of series on this topic on his website that you can read at http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2018/10/gods-covenant-people-response-to.html if you’re interested (I’d suggest clicking the link at the beginning of part 1 to read his earlier series too).

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 19, 2019 at 10:41 am

       Drew,
       How does Peter accepting Paul’s gospel mean that he would join the Church, the body of Christ? No, he would still remain in Israel, saved by the gospel of the kingdom. Peter, and everyone else, would simply from that point onward proclaim Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead for salvation. It would have no effect upon what had already occurred or their status. These are two separate issues. One does not impact the other.

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    2. Alicia November 7, 2021 at 9:01 am

       Be careful with that Happy Expectation blog——he’s a Concordant Theologian. I’ve just recently learned of this weird sect. It’s very sad because they have the potential to be super damaging to the Grace Message Rightly Divided as Don presents here. The reason is odd: It’s because they get SO much right! Satan is truly using them as a modern-day version of the “certain damsel” of Acts 16:16-17. The see Paul’s distinctive ministry. They understand a literal future timeline and understand Israel’s future. They study the Word of God carefully from the original language and have great answers to most spiritual confusion brought about by not rightly dividing—-such as the water baptism question. But boy oh boy, look at their beliefs on the old sin nature and judgment! They don’t believe in “sinful flesh,” and it appears from what I’ve read, they are Universalists! I admit, I’ve read a lot of the Happy Expectations blog because Aaron does such a good job of putting in one place all the Scripture references to support particular dispensational arguments. And he is a very thoughtful and thorough presenter. But caution: Do not point anyone not very well grounded his way——they are way messed up about the nature of man and final destiny. I really am dismayed and do scratch my head over the convoluted extreme mix of right and wrong exegesis they have come up with. For anyone interested, this “what we believe” link from their “official webpage” will clue a Berean in pretty quick—-they are super deceived and deceiving https://www.concordant.org/expositions/problem-evil-judgments-god-contents/part-one-8-sin-act-fact/ Don, I’m curious if you’ve had many dealings with people from this sect?

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       1. doctrine Post authorNovember 7, 2021 at 5:58 pm

          Alicia,
          No, I know nothing of them.

          Reply ↓
60. Joe August 23, 2019 at 12:59 pm

    Doctrine , this off the subject but I have a question…….Chapter 10 of Matthew the disciples are told to stay away from gentiles and even Samaritans but the woman at the well whom Jesus spoke with was a ‘Samaritan woman”. Please help me understand. Thank you

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 26, 2019 at 8:07 pm

       Joe,
       God can make exceptions based upon human volition. Jesus knew the woman would respond to Him. God’s grace trumps everything.

       Reply ↓
61. Karl October 16, 2019 at 9:40 am

    Dear brother,

    Was Luke amiss when he said in Acts 5:11 that “Great fear seized the whole church (ekklesia) and all who heard about these events?”

    Also, if we look at Acts 8:1, 8:3, 9:31, 12:1 and 12:5 (all prior to Paul’s message being preached) we can see Luke’s use of ekklesia within the first fruits of those being saved by Christ.

    If Luke is not amiss, then it can be said that there existed before Paul “the church” within the Jewish context. Since a large part of your argument that Paul’s gospel is different from Jesus’ is based on the notion that the church didn’t exist among Jews, I think it would be important to know how you might answer this question.

    Thank you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 16, 2019 at 10:47 am

       Karl,
       The best answer I can provide is my article The Church (the Body of Christ).

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62. Joseph Wall December 8, 2019 at 7:41 am

    All of this is interesting but I had to learn that what I had been taught about Jesus being the King of the Jews and that the Jews killed Jesus but that we still love the Jews and salvation first belongs to the Jews etc. etc. etc. was all wrong. Who was Jesus mother and from what tribe? Not a Jew but a Levite. The name Jew has been manufactured to cause confusion. It can mean a person that resides in Judea, it can mean short for Judah but it does not mean Israel and it never did if we are looking at TRUTH. With that new TRUTH you can open the doors to the true meanings of the teachings of Jesus and begin to break down the barriers that confuse. Why would the Jews kill their own? The answer is because he was not their own. He was an enemy from the moment he was born through his very blood line If you examine the very words that came from his mouth without some preacher using some type of made up judeo christian theology that is used to justify the murder of Jesus then the truth becomes a bright light shining through the darkness of lies. Jesus fought the Jews continuously as they tried to have him arrested for speaking something contrary to what they had brainwashed all of the citizens of Judea and abroad. That the tribes of Israel were dead and they were the only way to God, Just as they do this very day. Jesus said go only to the lost house of Israel. Israel was not lost except in the way that they did not know their own identity. They were very much alive then as they are today but they do not know that they are Israel. The Jews have set up their own country in Palestine and conveniently named themselves Israel. Understand they did not name the country Judah. Doesn’t Ezekiel hold two sticks in his hand as a very important example that God wanted him to understand? They are split into two houses! Judah, along with Levites and many from the tribe of Benjamin, comprise the “House of Judah”, while Joseph, of whom the tribe of Ephraim was the largest, along with the rest of the 10 northern tribes comprise the other house, the “House of Israel”. There are two houses, two sticks, NOT ONE. Who did Jesus come to? Mathew 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 8, 2019 at 2:07 pm

       Joseph,
       Mary was of the tribe of Judah, not Levi. The term “Jew“ יְהוּדִי, originally referred t anyone from the tribe of Judah. But later, after the fall of the northern kingdom, it came to mean anyone from the 12 tribes. “Jew” and “Israel” mean exactly the same thing. See https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3064&t=KJV. Jesus Himself told Pilate that He was the King of the Jews.

       Reply ↓
63. Craig January 6, 2020 at 9:59 am

    Don, Paul said he was a part of “the Way.” (Acts 24:14) I thought only the apostles and their converts were?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 6, 2020 at 10:35 am

       Craig,
       Acts is written from a Jewish perspective. Luke wrote it to explain why the kingdom of God did not come. In Acts 24, Paul was speaking to Jews. He had to keep his message simple. His use of “the Way” was simply his way of saying he was a follower of Christ and he believed in the resurrection. We cannot take doctrine from Acts. All Church doctrine comes from Paul’s letters. Acts serves as a historical complement to Paul’s ministry and as above, to explain to Jews why the kingdom did not come.

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64. Stan February 13, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    What really peaked my interest in this Paul vs Jesus thing was a defense of The latter Day saints where the author compared Joseph Smith to Paul…because it happened once, why not again? I do appreciate your approach, and all the other comments…even the ones I haven’t read! It is interesting, but a bit of a distraction I suppose, there is plenty in the Bible I do understand and focusing on those things would be more fruitful for me.

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    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 13, 2020 at 2:32 pm

       Stan,
       One verse destroys Joseph Smith’s claim: Colossians 1.25. The Greek text reads, ἡς ἐγενόμην ἐγὼ διάκονος κατὰ τὴν οἰκονομίαν τοῦ θεοῦ τὴν δοθεῖσάν μοι εἰς ὑμᾶς πληρῶσαι τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ, “of which I became a minister, according t the dispensation of the God, which was given to me to complete the word of the God.” In other words, God commissioned Paul to complete the Scriptures. 2 Timothy was the last book written.

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65. Patrick April 17, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    I guess what I’m saying, is that I don’t know which is divine truth, but since Jesus said one thing, and he’s the son of God, and he never mentioned ANYTHING about Paul or Paul’s mystery, neither did ANYONE before him in all of the OT, and Paul said the complete opposite of Jesus with no validation from anyone Jesus was talking to, like the other 12 apostles, I’m just supposed to take Paul’s and the current church which all preach Paul but are spiritually a mess, word for it? I’m not sure that’s the scripturally wise thing to do. Id actually have to ignore Jesus, James, and John to accept this whole framework of grace vs law dispensation to even get close.

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 18, 2020 at 8:22 am

       Patrick,
       What you are missing is that everything Paul taught and wrote, he received from the risen Christ. Thus, if you do not follow Paul you do not follow Christ. The Twelve accepted Paul. Read Acts 15 and 2 Peter 3.15-16. If you do not accept Paul you have to throw out the entire NT. You can’t have the writings of James, John, Peter, Mark, Luke for they all accepted Paul’s apostleship. Jesus and the Twelve ministered to Jews, not to Gentiles. The Twelve never ministered to Gentiles. The Twelve had no idea about the Church, the body of Christ. It was a divine secret the risen Christ revealed to Paul. So without Paul, there is no Church, only Judaism.

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       1. Kelvin Tan May 3, 2020 at 8:46 pm

          hi doctrine,

          For your point, “You can’t have the writings of James, John, Peter, Mark, Luke for they all accepted Paul’s apostleship”, I have read some commentaries that claimed that the apostle John and Paul also disagree about the true gospel.

          Paul said in 2 Cor 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. KJV, with other translations like NLT, stating But I don’t consider myself inferior in any way to these “super apostles” who teach such things.

          When we read John epistles, we also read John warning about false apostles.

          Could all these be evidence that John disagreed with Paul?

          I guess when we are raptured and have perfect knowledge, this will be one of the questions I hope to uncover the answer, and also the question “Did James and the elders accepted Paul’s money from the Gentile churches in Acts 21?”

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          1. doctrine Post authorMay 3, 2020 at 9:02 pm

             Kelvin,
             If you read all of 2 Corinthians 11, Paul made it clear these “super apostles” proclaimed a different gospel and were false apostles, deceivers, agents of Satan. At the Council of Jerusalem, Peter declared Paul was right and that from then on, everyone, Jew or Gentile had to be saved by Paul’s gospel (Acts 15.11). Paul wrote in Galatians (after the Council) that anyone who proclaimed a gospel different from his was cursed. See my article The Great Hinge. Paul wrote he gathered collections for the poor in Jerusalem so he was eager to help these believers.

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             1. Kelvin Tan May 3, 2020 at 9:22 pm

                Yes, but I was asking is “Could the apostle John be one of those super apostles that Paul was referring to”? John was clearly very well respected among the Jewish believers.

                When you read 1 John, you cannot fail but notice that John emphasize a lot about following the commandments, that is one criteria he believes that can “prove” that you are saved.

                Could he be writing that with Paul in mind? When Paul wrote at the end of Timothy that everyone has abandoned his gospel at the end, could John have been one of those who facilitated that?

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                1. doctrine Post authorMay 4, 2020 at 8:11 am

                   Kelvin,
                   No, John was not one of the “super apostles” Paul had in mind in 2 Corinthians. We must recognize that only Paul wrote to members of the Church, the body of Christ. All Church doctrine is found in Paul’s letters. Peter, James, John, Jude wrote to Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom which was under the Mosaic Law. The issue of the gospel had been settled at the Council but the Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom continued to practice Law. All who had believed Paul’s gospel, however, were under grace, not Law. Thus, two completely different programs.

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                   1. KC Lee May 4, 2020 at 10:06 pm

                      Hi, can you please explain these scriptures from Paul to the Ephesus elders that contradict what you’re saying: Act 20:20  as I kept nothing back of what is profitable, so as not to tell you, and to teach you publicly, and from house to house, 21  earnestly testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Act 20:24  But I make account of nothing, nor do I hold my life precious to myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, fully to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 25  And now, behold, I know that you all will see my face no more, among whom I went about proclaiming the kingdom of God. 

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMay 5, 2020 at 8:13 am

                         KC Lee,
                         Can you explain how this passage contradicts what I say?

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    2. David Melendez August 30, 2020 at 9:42 am

       Hi Patrick,
       I want to add something. When Jesus speaks in Revelation he also never mentions Paul by name, except when he commends the one church who calls out those that call themselves Apostles. Now who do we think Jesus is speaking of here? Do the research, the churches are in Asia. Another clue that Paul is the Benjamite Jew prophesied in Gen 49.
       Blessings in Christ! Jesus Words Only!

       Reply ↓
       1. doctrine Post authorAugust 30, 2020 at 11:59 am

          David,
          Jesus doesn’t mention Paul in Revelation because Revelation was written to Jews, not to the Church. The Church is nowhere present in Revelation. The writings of John, Peter, James, and Jude were all written to Jewish believers, not to members of the Church, the body of Christ. Like Jesus told the Sadducees, you err because you do not the Scriptures. Once you become a Christian, you can understand these things.

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66. Stephen Foster April 30, 2020 at 12:00 pm

    The issue with your conclusions are based upon the fundamental error differentiating Paul from Jesus. Just as a coin has two sides, so the ministry of Paul and the gospel of Christ are one. Your comparison seems to be based on verbatim comparisons with no consideration of the spirit of Paul’s ministry,

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 30, 2020 at 12:09 pm

       Stephen,
       You are correct. I base my conclusion on the verbatim text. I accept what the text says. If you accept the text, what Jesus taught in His earthly ministry to the Jews, and what Paul taught, what he received from the resurrected Christ, was completely different.

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67. Ger May 10, 2020 at 10:58 am

    Where is the gospel of Paul? No bible I have seen has a book called that. Also if there was such a thing wouldn’t the early church have called it that and put it in the Bible

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 10, 2020 at 12:32 pm

       Ger,
       No Bible has the gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John either. We have the gospel of Jesus (Mark 1.1). We have the gospel of the kingdom, we have the gospel of the grace of God, Paul’s gospel. We know Paul’s gospel as Paul’s gospel because he called it “my gospel” (Romans 2.16, 16.25; 2 Timothy 2.8). See also Galatians 1.11-12, 2.2.

       Reply ↓
68. Miguel Aguirre-Martinez July 27, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    ¡Saludos desde México! ¡Muchas gracias por el estudio! Greetings from Mexico! Thanks for the study!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 28, 2020 at 4:29 pm

       Miguel,
       Gracias, amigo!

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69. D. A. Taylor November 15, 2020 at 11:52 am

    Several biblical scholars have documented how the writings of Paul were completely unknown to the world, until a ship builder named Marcion supposedly discovered a copy of them in the early 2nd Century. And this is truly amazing, when one considers how Paul sent his writings to numerous congregations in different locations, with instructions to copy them and send them to other churches – yet not a single one of these writings has ever been discovered. Anyway, Marcion – who was not a Christian, but a Gnostic – lived in Sinope, Turkey, which 1,500 km from Jerusalem. And this does raise the question of how the only copy of Paul’s writings came into the possession of someone who lived such a great distance from Jesus and the other apostles? Anyway, as the story goes, Marcion took Paul’s writings to the Catholic Church, along with a large donation of money. And this is how Paul was introduced into Christianity. As they say, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Sometimes.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 15, 2020 at 12:44 pm

       D.A.Taylor,
       If one believes this, one pretty much has to throw away the NT. Peter’s statement of 2 Peter 3.15-16 is obviously a forgery. But such people do not believe Peter wrote 2nd Peter. Such are false teachers, deceivers, agents of Satan.

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       1. D.A. Taylor January 31, 2021 at 11:45 am

          Most biblical scholar believe II Peter was authored by the Catholics — Peter did not write it. And if the writings of Paul are spurious, why should be entire NT be thrown out? Is Paul that important to you? And are the writings of the other apostles useless to you? That’s such a strange position: if Paul is spurious, then throw away the NT …

          One can go onto the Internet and find lists of over 30 writings where Paul contradicts the teachings of Jesus. Why should this not bother us? We also see how Paul claimed his writings were sent to various Gentile churches — with Paul requesting that his letters be copied and sent to still more churches. Yet not a single copy of any of these important documents has ever been found. Why is that?

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          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 31, 2021 at 12:27 pm

             D.A. Taylor,
             Without Paul there is no salvation message. Paul’s message is the difference between heaven and hell. Is that important to you? When people say Paul contradicts Jesus, what they mean is Paul contradicts what Jesus taught in His earthly ministry. But what Paul taught he received from the risen Christ. In His earthly ministry Jesus did not address Gentiles, only Jews. He certainly had nothing to do with the Church. The Church did not exist until Paul. So if you do away with Paul you do away with the Church. All that is left is Judaism. Peter, James, John, Jude wrote to Jews, not to members of the Church, the body of Christ. Only Paul wrote to the Church. All Church doctrine comes from Paul. Unless one understands this one has no understanding of Christianity or Church theology.

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             1. Joe B February 1, 2021 at 12:58 pm

                Doctrine,

                What does this verse mean?

                2 Corinthians 5:16 16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer

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                1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 1, 2021 at 3:01 pm

                   Joe,
                   Literally, your translation “from a worldly point of view” reads “after the flesh.” In the first case, it means to know someone merely on human terms, that is, apart from the finished work of Christ. With regard to Christ, it means to know Him only in His earthly ministry. We now no longer know Him as defined by His earthly ministry but as risen.

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70. Matt Regan December 1, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    I was raised in a fundamental Baptist Church, which I’m sure you know that they revered the Apostle Paul! Many of the comments made concerning Paul and their complete rejection of him truly baffles me to say the least! Paul’s mission as I understand it, was one, to preach the good news of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection and salvation by grace alone to the gentiles. And two, to teach Christ’s new church what He expects of it, and how it is to be fashioned and teach it this new doctrine! Otherwise, how would his church know anything about anything related to His church! If it was only the Gospels we had as to how the church was to be established, the church would have disappeared in a few generations! Obviously Christ knew that, and chose Paul for Him to bring these teachings to the church! Everything we know about Christ’s teachings for his church pretty much comes from Paul, without it, the Church would be lost! Thank you for ministry and wisdom!

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 2, 2020 at 8:42 am

       Matt,
       Thank you for your encouraging words.

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71. Stefan Muir December 18, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    I have read this web site and the extensive amount of comments, which has been exceedingly interesting. There are not many web sites that I would spend such considerable time. Thank you for posting and maintaining this site.

    I debate if you should use the name “Christian”. Those who view God through the lens to Moses are Jews (Judaism). Through Joseph Smith, Mormons (LDS). Through Mohammad, Islam. Through the words of Christ, Christians. Through the lens of Paul, a Paulist:

    – For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many Fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel (I Corinthians 4:15).
    – I urge you then, be imitators of me (Corinthians 4:16).
    – Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ (I Corinthians 11:1).
    – What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do; and the God of peace will be with you (Philippians 4:9).

    This is not criticism; you are doing exactly what your prophet is teaching. But your religion is not Christianity. It is based on Christ but as taught through the words of another. A Christian regards the red words in the gospels. A Jew looks prior to Christ, at Moses. A Paulist looks after Christ, at Paul. A Mormon looks after Paul, at Joseph Smith.

    The Mormon unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians, yet they do not practice the words of Christ; they practice the words of Joseph Smith. The Mormon claims the words of Joseph Smith have equivalent authority as Christ by way of revelation. Therefore, the Book of Mormon might as well been written by Christ himself, so they feel justified in claiming the title of “Christian”. The Mormon imitates Joseph Smith, who in turn, imitates Christ, but Smith was not a perfect imitation of Christ, so the Mormon is imitating a distorted, second-hand version of Christ.

    This is a similar claim you are making; from an authority perspective, the Epistles of Paul might as well been written by Christ himself, so you feel justified in claiming the title “Christian”. However, there is a clear distinction. Christ proclaimed:

    – And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. (Mt. 23:9)
    – Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked. (1 John 2:6)

    Follow your chosen prophet. If you are a Christian, look at Mt 23:9 and 1 John 2:6 and follow Christ. If you are a Paulist, look at 1 Cor 4:15 and 1 Cor 11:1 and imitate Paul as your spiritual father. You can not imitate two or have two fathers; their claims are mutually exclusive. If Paul is a seamless image of Christ, then you will be successfully imitating Christ by imitating Paul. However, Paul is not a seamless imitation of Christ (Romans 7:14-25, 1 Tim 1:15-16, also others). He is a distorted image of Christ. To call yourself a “Christian” is disingenuous; you are making your claim through a distorted, second-hand version of Christ as imitated by Paul. Instead, call yourself a “Paulist”, for he is the prophet you follow, imitate, and call “father”.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 18, 2020 at 2:23 pm

       Stefan,
       A “Christian” is a follower of Jesus Christ. When one lived and how much God had revealed at that time determined such identification. Adam was a Christian in the sense that he was a follower of Jesus Christ but did not know Him by that title. But the personage Jesus walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. Jesus told the Jews of His day, before Abraham was, I am. So those who worshipped the one, true God in the Old Testament were followers of Christ. God spoke to Abraham, Moses, the prophets, and the One who speaks in the Old Testament is God the Son, Christ. That is why John called Him the Word. So too Paul. Everything Paul wrote, he received directly from the ascended, glorified Christ. So Paul was a Christian, as was Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, etc. If one does not believe Paul, one is not saved, not a Christian. His gospel is the message of salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Peter recognized this at the Council of Jerusalem, Acts 15.11, and later wrote the Jews that Paul’s letters were Scripture and that he had the message of salvation (2 Peter 3.15-16). So all who reject Paul, reject Christ, and He will judge them according to Paul’s gospel (Romans 2.16). The judicial penalty of Christ’s judgment is eternal punishment in the lake of fire. It appears from your comments that you are without Christ, for you have rejected Paul’s gospel that Christ died for you and rose from the dead for you. I encourage you to trust in Him and accept His work on your behalf.

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       1. Stefan Muir December 19, 2020 at 11:19 am

          It seems the name of one’s religion should be based on his prophet; be it Mohammad, Moses, Christ, Paul, or Joseph Smith. The last three on this list all vie for the title “Christian”, but have different beliefs. Ironically, out of the three, the religion that fights hardest for the name “Christian” is oppositional to the teaching of Christ. It stands to reason the religion that designates Christ as their prophet deserves the title “Christian”. Paul demands to be followed, imitated, and recognized as the spiritual “father” (references provided in my previous post), so it seems the religion that designates Paul as their prophet would embrace the distinctive title “Paulist”.

          The followers of Joseph Smith understand this, although they identify as Christians, they embrace the distinctive title “Mormon”. The Mormons believe the Lord delivers them a prophet in our current dispensation, starting with Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon identifies there will be a single prophet at any time to receive revelations from God, with each prophet having progressive revelation as an extension of Paul’s revelation. The current prophet and priest of Mormonism is Russell Nelson:

          – “There is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred” (Doctrines and Covenants 132:7).
          – “Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” (Doctrines and Covenants 21:4-5)
          – “For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times” (Doctrines and Covenants 124:41).

          This is not so different than your own arguments. Paul claims the same dispenationary priority (Eph 3:2-3, D&C 124:41), progressive revelatory powers that supersede prior revelation, receiving of supernatural secrets (2 Cor 12:1-10, Alma 12:9), speaking on behalf of Christ with new revelations that Christ himself did not reveal, enduring suffering (D&C 24:8, however Paul claims to actually contribute to Christ’s sufferings in Col 1:24), and instructing his followers to heed his words and commandments (D&C 21:4-5, Paul adds threats, 2 Cor 2:9, 1 Thess 3:14, 1 Cor 14:38, 2 Cor 4:4).

          Your reply contains much theology – I understand your testimony and witness according to Paul – but did not address why you do not embrace your prophet Paul whereas every other religion on the list is comfortable with being addressed by the name of their prophet. I think you would find, if stripped of the odd novelties of Mormonism, and left with only the bare core nugget of the belief in Jesus, you would find the Mormon belief in the Dispensation of Grace of Jesus not so different from your own. In this core belief, Paulism has more in common with Mormonism than with the Sermon on the Mount. For that reason, to differentiate your religion from the religion that Christ spoke, to which you are oppositional, and to recognize whom you are commanded to declare as your “father”, and to whom you are commanded to imitate, why do you not identify with the name of your prophet (Paul), but instead choose the name of the prophet in which you are oppositional to what he spoke (Christ)? Maybe those Jews to whom Christ spoke should be called “Christians”, for they followed Christ as their prophet and obeyed his words. But you do not fit into that category; you follow what another prophet spoke.

          It seems disengenious; you seem to be ashamed and obscuring the name of your own prophet by “stealing” the name of Christ for yourself, while opposing the very words he spoke.

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          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2020 at 12:34 pm

             Stefan,
             You miss the main point of the reply. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, the prophets, Paul all received their information from the same source. They were just the messengers. They were followers of Jesus Christ, though He had not revealed Himself by this title before His incarnation. At Paul’s conversion, he said, Who are you Lord? The reply was, I am Jesus—the same person who had ministered with the Twelve. So all have the same source. As for Mormonism, who appeared to Joseph Smith was an entirely different personage, not the God of the Bible. Paul wrote that he would complete the Scriptures (Colossians 1.25). So what Smith wrote, the Book of Mormon, he did not receive from the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, the Twelve, Paul, etc. For that reason Mormonism stands outside of Christianity and follows a “prophet” from another creation or source. The same may be said about all the gods the Jews encountered in the OT. Completely different sources.

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       2. Don is right June 26, 2022 at 9:44 pm

          Brother Don,

          The Holy Spirit tore me away from a works mixed with grace doctrine. I have certainly shortened my learning curve by finding your teachings!!

          Words cannot convey how much I appreciate people who teaching this truth!!

          Thanks be to God for Brother Don!

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorJune 27, 2022 at 8:04 am

             Thank you. May God continue to bless you. He is the God of all glory and goodness.

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72. Craig December 18, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    Don, in John 3:3 what exactly did Jesus mean that the Jews must be born again?

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2020 at 9:05 am

       Craig,
       He simply meant that salvation required faith, not just keeping the external commands of the Law to which the Pharisees were so devoted. In particular, salvation required Jews to believe He was the Messiah.

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73. Richard Seehausen January 15, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    Fantastic article, one of the best on some of the seeming contradictions between Jesus and Paul

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74. Max Trowbridge January 21, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    To Doctrine Post Author, After reading so many different points of view and comments, It is wonderful to see everyone’s passion and enthusiasm in seeking truth. I commend your perseverance in holding to scripture as it is written. In many of the comments I read, it appears many think Paul and his teachings were not directed by the Good Lord, but his thinking only. They seem to not understand that it’s not Paul’s gospel, it’s Jesus’. Paul’s only the messenger. I would add that reference to Acts 9:10-15 and the Lord’s directive to Ananias to find Saul might prove beneficial in helping one to understand that Paul was not acting on his own behalf.

    As David Jeremiah says “faith is not perfection, but a direction.” It takes a lifetime of Bible study to gain truth and understanding.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 22, 2021 at 8:04 am

       Max,
       Thank you. Yes, Paul was the messenger, even as Moses and the prophets. Those who criticize Paul and say, “I follow Jesus, not Paul,” have basically said they do not believe the Scriptures are God-breathed. If you only follow what Jesus Himself spoke, you have to throw out everything but the Gospels.

       Reply ↓
75. alex March 3, 2021 at 5:37 pm

    Doc,
    these days I have become so sad and scared of wether paul is of satan or God. I have seen many people who claim he is indeed of satan (which I personally do not want to believe because I dont think God would let half of its Word be a lie which condems people to hell) and they have scared me even more with this one: They claim that in Rev 2:2 it speaks about Paul who is a false apostle and basically base all their beliefs in Jesus’ warnings about people who saw Jesus etc. I really feel depressed and sad not 100% sure as who to believe. I have asked the Lord to guide me Himself because I really want the Truth and I will do everything I can to find it. I know the truth is the bible and the bible if you read it you understand the writings of paul and his despantation but these people claim that Paul is a liar so everything Paul teaches condem to hell and they say to me that I will go to hell because I believe a false prophet. By the way I believe in Jesus by understanding Paul but they really dont understand. How would you answer this type of thinking they have? Man also I dont think God would just throw someone to Hell because he believes Jesus shed His precious blood for him and does everything he can to please Him because he loves Him (because of His grace). Really weird situation I am in right now. Dont think I will come out 100% sure. But I know God wont let me or anyone who desires the Truth down. I would appreciate an answer (also I read every single comment and I knew everything you said before but I just wanted to see what people who believe Paul is liar from satan have to say). Thank the Lord who is trying to make my mind up.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 3, 2021 at 6:50 pm

       Alex,
       Those who say such things do not know Christ. How can one know Christ if one rejects that Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead, Paul’s gospel? Those who reject Paul are agents of Satan. Reject them.

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       1. alex March 4, 2021 at 3:23 am

          yeah. Their kind of thinking is so weird
          Why would satan tell us to believe the gospel and love Jesus for His sacrifice (basically what Paul teaches). It is cringy. But can you answer me please about this Rev 2:2 (they say that Jesus their talks about false apostle Paul). I want to know your opinion about that.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 4, 2021 at 7:44 am

             Alex,
             Revelation has nothing to do with the Church. The Church was a Pauline revelation. The Church is nowhere present in Revelation. If one reads the letters of Peter, James, John, and Jude you will find references to false teachers. They were rampant among the Jewish congregations who believed Jesus was the Messiah. Unless one separates what is written to the Church and what is written to Israel, one cannot understand the Scriptures. And again, the people who make these claims are not believers. You cannot be a believer in Christ and reject his death and resurrection, Paul’s gospel. You do not fine Peter, James, John, Jude teaching Jesus’ death and resurrection for our sins until after Paul revealed it. That the Jewish leaders had no understanding of Paul’s gospel is clear from the fact that they had to have the Council of Jerusalem and Paul had to explain his gospel to them. Paul had to explain it to them because they did not understand it. Ultimately, what these people are saying is that the Lord Jesus Christ is Satan.

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             1. alex March 4, 2021 at 12:52 pm

                Another thing they say is that Jesus died on the cross to give us a chance to obey Him and then we get saved. How can you explain that? I believe in Paul’s Gospel. I believe the Bible is all true. But these people say Paul made it all out of his mind. I just want to be 100% sure about everything. ALSO, every single time Jesus says about the Judgement He is mentioning works and never grace. How can you explain that also? I just want to know what you have to say about these 2 questions because I am trying to find an answer. Thank you for your time.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 4, 2021 at 1:44 pm

                   Alex,
                   Jesus died and rose from the dead to destroy sin and death. By relying on his work we are saved. Unbelievers works are judged for two reasons: 1) their good works are all they have to commend themselves since they have rejected Christ’s work on their behalf and 2) their evil works show why they will be sent to the Lake of Fire forever.

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                   1. alex March 4, 2021 at 1:53 pm

                      Yes I ask about the believers on Pauls gospel. Not unbelievers. Jesus never mentions such people in the judgement. Is there an explanation to that?? Why would we get jedged according to works? Arent we saved by grace through faith? Thats what I am asking

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 4, 2021 at 3:26 pm

                         Alex,
                         The works of believers are judged for rewards. It’s not a judgment for salvation. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3.

                         Reply ↓
                         1. alex March 4, 2021 at 3:36 pm

                            Is there anywhere else it says about it? (except of Paul). Why doesnt Jesus talk about that?

                            Reply ↓
                            1. doctrine Post authorMarch 4, 2021 at 4:07 pm

                               Alex,
                               Jesus did not address members of the Church, those who believe Paul’s gospel, because the Church did not exist during Jesus’ earthly ministry. Jesus did address it concerning OT believers and those who believed the gospel of the kingdom with His parable of the talents and in passages such as Matthew 19.29.
76. alex March 5, 2021 at 1:03 pm

    Doc,
    Also the scary thing is that theres no proof about Paul and he teaches contrary to Jesus. How can we trust that? Please whats your opinion about that

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 5, 2021 at 2:22 pm

       Alex,
       I’ve answered this more times than I can remember. When these people say this they mean Paul taught contrary to what Jesus taught in his earthly ministry. But everything Paul taught, he received from the risen Lord. All the apostles recognized this. If one does not accept this one must throw away what they wrote also for they are liars. Thus, no New Testament.

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77. annette baskerville March 23, 2021 at 3:53 am

    Hello Don,
    Thank you for an exceptionally excellent article as usual. One question though – could you clarify or point me to the right article on the topic “What is the Law of Christ?” and to whom does it apply?
    Did the Mosaic Law end with the death of John the Baptist given that he was the last of the Levitical priesthood?
    Was there an interim Law operating until the preaching of the Gospel of Grace?
    Thank you so much for your time and effort.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 23, 2021 at 12:01 pm

       Annette,
       1. The “law of Christ” is any command Christ gave in a particular context. In Galatians 6.2, it was to bear one another’s burdens.
       2-3. No. The letters of Peter, James, John, Jude show Jews who believed the gospel of the kingdom continued to live under the Mosaic Law.
       It is interesting that in their letters they wrote almost nothing about the Holy Spirit, never mentioned the New Covenant, the Lord’s Supper, or any manifestations or gifts of the Spirit. Paul mentioned them all and wrote extensively about the operational benefits of the Spirit in living the Christian life. I am now writing a commentary on these letters in which I try to explain why this is.

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78. annette baskerville March 23, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    Just to be clear Don,
    “Galatians 5:4 says if you choose to live the Law then you fall from Grace and are cut off from Jesus.” I agree with you, this is speaking about the Mosaic Law.
    But what if I substituted the Law of Christ as the Law to live under? Is it not binding as the Mosaic Law? If I try to live under the Law of Christ and fail, (which I do) then would I still be under Grace?
    I ask because one teacher on the internet who agrees the M.L has ended urges its replacement with the Law of Christ, but to me, that just seems like legalism under a different name.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 24, 2021 at 8:27 am

       Annette,
       What does this person think the “law of Christ” is? Could it not be the doctrines of grace Paul received from the ascended Lord?

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79. Barb April 15, 2021 at 3:13 am

    It is 2021 and all of these comments have made me realize why we are still in the same hole as they were over 2,000 years ago. Until the Holy Spirit unifies the True Church, nothing will change.
    I will always follow the words of Jesus. I do my own research and have a beautiful personal relationship with my Heavenly Father and The Risen King. I am His child and that is that. Blessings to all.

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 15, 2021 at 8:04 am

       Barb,
       The Church is divided because churches have abandoned Paul, the apostle through whom the risen Lord brought the Church into existence and gave all its doctrines. All who refuse to recognize this are the cause of division, part of the problem. Paul commanded believers of his gospel, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead, to separate and avoid those who teach contrary to what he taught. Most churches teach contrary to Paul and that is the reason for denominations and divisions. For example, most churches teach water baptism. Paul taught there was one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is no longer a Christian practice (Ephesians 4.5). But churches refuse to accept this. Many other examples could be given. In other words, churches are disobedient to Christ for they will not accept the doctrines He, as the ascended Lord, gave to Paul. When a person says he follows Jesus, what he usually means is he follows what Jesus said in His earthly ministry. But everything Paul wrote, he received not from Christ on earth but from Christ in heaven. Faithful Christians follow what the Lord spoke from heaven, the words He spoke for the Church, the body of Christ. The Church is a heavenly people. Israel, to whom Jesus spoke while on earth, is an earthly people. If Christians were faithful to the Lord and followed what He gave to Paul divisions would cease. This is the only way to unity.

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       1. Cyril EMMANUEL October 6, 2022 at 7:24 pm

          If we are not to follow what Jesus taught on earth, but what He taught from heaven, why then did He have to come to earth? He could have just taught us all from heaven, since you make it seem that His earthly mission was a waste? Reason is quite important for a man, it’s a gift from God to man, so he can ponder on the truth as he seeks.

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          1. doctrine Post authorOctober 6, 2022 at 8:43 pm

             Cyril,
             Humanity’s problem is sin and death. The wages of sin is death. God came to earth, became incarnate, to die for our sins and pay the penalty of sin to satisfy God’s justice. He conquered death by His resurrection. The gospel of grace is that if we believe Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead we are saved from sin and death (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). What Jesus taught on earth was to Jews (not Gentiles) under the Mosaic Law. Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law. As members of the Church, the body of Christ, we are under grace, not the Mosaic Law (Romans 6.14). We fulfill God’s moral law by faith and by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God is in the process of conforming us into the image of His Son.

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             1. Cyril EMMANUEL October 7, 2022 at 5:27 am

                Brother, peace be with you!
                Please listen to me and try to reason with me. Man’s problem is his inclination to sin, for man has free will, which means man can choose to do good or evil. That is why free will comes with the Law, for obedience to the Law is good, but disobedience to the Law is evil (Lawlessness is sin). Jesus did not die for my sins, I would die for my own sins, if I don’t repent, submit to God’s Law and obey only the words of Jesus, by following Him and living as He lived. God did not come to earth to die for no man, God cannot die, God is Spirit and He is eternal, immortal and invisible. Jesus is not God, but the Son of God, Jesus is not a man but the Son of Man, God is God (God of Jesus – Matt. 27:46), and He is 1 and not 3 in 1. You need to have the right knowledge of God, and only Jesus teaches that. I have read through all the comments, few have tried to make you see the truth, but you can’t. Which makes me fear God the more, for it is the fulfillment of the words of His Son; ‘I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding these things from the learned and wise, and revealing them to the simple. Yes, Father, such was thy choice (Matt. 11:25-26).’
                I know it’s all up to you to accept or reject, for you have free will, but I do want you to at least, try to assume that you can be wrong for once, Paul can be wrong, I can be wrong, all men can be wrong, but Jesus can never be wrong. I know nothing on my own, I see myself as a fool before the LORD and the world, so I choose to learn from the only Teacher, the Messiah (Matt. 23:10). Please, I am saying this, not just for your sake alone, but for the sake of others that believe what you say and write, and are misled to put their salvation in the teaching of Paul instead of the Teaching of Jesus alone. Not many of you should become teachers, for you may be certain that we who teach shall ourselves be judged with greater strictness (James 3:1).
                “Alas to the world, causes of stumbling are bound to arise; but woe betide the man through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone round his neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble (Luke 17:1-2); please do not be that man, take a break to seek the Truth as Jesus commanded, for the truth is not plainly written in the Scriptures, that is why Jesus asked us to seek, so we might find.
                Lastly, I am not a Christian, I am a Jew; I was a Gentile by birth, but became born again as a Jew, adopted by Jesus Christ.
                Please Doctrine Admin, I did write a lot of comments, comments that can be beneficial to others (for they are not my words, but the words of my Master), I do appreciate if it could all be uploaded and allowed to stay, including this I am presently writing. Thank you and kind regards.

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                1. doctrine Post authorOctober 7, 2022 at 9:19 pm

                   Cyril,
                   What you must understand is that everything the Lord spoke was not in His earthly ministry. He spoke through the prophets and everything Paul wrote, he received directly from the Lord, except when he explicitly said so. And every then, His words are God-breathed. Peter recognized that all that Paul wrote was the word of God. Therefore, when Paul says we are not under Law but under grace, it is the Lord who is saying this. When Paul wrote that we are saved by faith alone, believing Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, these are not the words of Paul but of Jesus the Christ.

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                   1. Cyril EMMANUEL October 8, 2022 at 5:19 pm

                      Hello Brother,
                      I did appreciate you letting my reply stay, I hope we all can see the truth set before our eyes. I noticed in the comments that you kept mentioning that the gospel taught to Paul was a secret, a secret unknown to the 12. Have you read Revelation 2:24; “And now I speak to you others in Thyatira, who do not accept this teaching and have had no experience of what they like to call the deep secrets of Satan; on you I will impose no further burden.” Who do you think Jesus is referring to in that verse? Honestly, Jesus was warning us all about Paul in Revelation 2-3, for each of us is the Church, not a building or a structure. Please, do not let the love for a man, blind you from seeing the truth. Love God and Jesus His son, more than any man, including Paul. You have always asked a question repeatedly, about how can one be saved? This is how Jesus taught us (please see yourself as the stranger, input your name in the blank space to make it feel personal):
                      You, a stranger ________ ran up, and kneeling before Jesus, asked;
                      You: Good Master, what must I do to win eternal life?
                      Jesus said: Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. But if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.
                      You: Which commandments?
                      Jesus said: You know the commandments (Works):
                      1. The LORD our God is the only Lord, no other gods but Him; Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
                      2. Do not make nor worship idols.
                      3. Do not misuse God’s Name.
                      4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
                      5. Honour your father and mother.
                      6. Do not kill.
                      7. Do not commit adultery.
                      8. Do not steal nor defraud.
                      9. Do not give false evidence.
                      10. Do not covet; love your neighbour as yourself.
                      You: I have kept all these since I was a boy. Where do I fall short?
                      Jesus said: There is still one thing lacking (Faith), if you wish to go the whole way: go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and then you will have riches in heaven; and come, follow me.
                      “I am the way; I am the truth and I am life; no one comes to the Father except by me.”
                      Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God.
                      (Exo. 20:1-21, Deut. 5:1-33, Matt. 19:16-30, Mark 10:17-31; 12:28-34, Luke 18:18-30, John 14:6)
                      Brother, this is the way, not by grace that Paul teaches. Also, Jesus used a parable to explain better, one I would be sharing after your reply to this. Also, please check out my reply to Riana down below, now is the time for repentance, good works and righteousness. The day of the Lord is knocking at the door!

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                      1. doctrine Post authorOctober 8, 2022 at 7:11 pm

                         Cyril,
                         If you reject Paul, you have rejected Christ. You also reject Peter, James, John, and Luke and most of the New Testament. They all accepted Paul as God’s handpicked apostle and this is documented in their writings. At the present time you are with Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. I hope you will repent of this evil and come to know the living Christ by believing He died for you and rose from the dead. You cannot obtain salvation by your works.

                         Reply ↓
                2. Riana Weaver October 8, 2022 at 3:53 am

                   Hello Cyril

                   I read your post a couple of times and the one thing that I am having a hard time understanding is how you come to the conclusion that “Jesus did not die for my sins”? The reason why I am interested is because you quote from the Gospels and other New Testament writers [James] besides Paul.

                   When the Lord Jesus gave the Twelve Apostles the Lord’s Supper, He said, “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. ” [Matthew 26:28 and also Matthew 20:28].

                   Later, Paul wrote “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,” [1 Timothy 2:5-6 and also 2 Corinthians 5:14-15].

                   As Don pointed out – everything Paul wrote, he received directly from the Lord and Peter recognised all Paul wrote as the Word of God.

                   Other New Testament writers [John] wrote of this truth:

                   1 John 2:2 – “And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”

                   1 Peter 1:18-19 – “knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

                   1 Peter 2:24 – “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.”

                   1 Peter 3:18 – “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,”

                   I really am curious as to how you arrive at the conclusion that “Jesus did not die for my sins” taking the above Scriptures into consideration?

                   In Christian love,
                   Riana

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80. Jerry May 20, 2021 at 1:16 pm

    I did not realize so many people were biblically illiterate on this subject. Their lack of understanding of God’s Grace is unbelievable. Man is still trying to work his/her way to heaven hoping that Jesus will accept them on based those works. To suggest that Paul was a heretic or that his teachings were “not revealed to him by Jesus” is a completely false idea. The idea that the New Testament is flawed, leaves all kinds of room for teaching and doctrinal error…which I have seen with some of these responses. The Bible explicitly explains the doctrine of Grace through faith. The doubt lies with those who have not yet seen the error of their ways.
    I believe as the author of this post overwhelmingly and clearly explained the doctrine of Grace through faith in Jesus Christ as our only hope in spending eternity with Jesus. Believing that Jesus died for our sins, was buried and raised on the third day is the “Good New” that Jesus was talking about. Yes, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the only Way…period. Unfortunately, many have missed the part that could save them…accepting that truth of God’s Grace embedded throughout Paul’s writings about Jesus.
    If we are going to discount Paul’s writings, we might as well toss out Luke’s (Acts also) Peter and John’s too. The “red letters” of Jesus were not used until 1899-1901 biblical print. (FYI) This makes them no less important or anymore important.

    God gave us His Spirit after Jesus ascended into heaven to impower us to carry on the ministry work of Jesus. Christ lives and breaths in us, enabling us, to do the things he had planned for us to do before the world began. All for his glory!

    Either Christ died for your sins or you are still in them. Can not have it both ways. As believers, we are justified by Faith just as Abraham was. God showered His Grace on us “while we were yet sinners”.

    Great information on the truth of God’s Word. Author, you are spot on!

    Ephesians 2:4-10/ Romans 6-8/ Acts 2/ 2 Timothy 3:15,16/

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81. Craig W Lewis June 30, 2021 at 8:51 pm

    If all we have are the words of Christ, would it be enough? If so why do we need Paul? If not then I guess Jesus preached an incomplete gospel! Blessings to all!

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    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2021 at 7:45 am

       Craig W Lewis,
       What is the gospel?

       Reply ↓
       1. Joe B August 11, 2021 at 11:01 am

          Craig, Maybe I can help.
          The gospel of Grace (not the gospel of the Kingdom–as taught by Christ and the 12 before the cross)—- 1 Cor. 15:1-4 (Paul) says it simply….believe in the death, burial and resurrection. –no works

          Have you ever noticed that the 12 (before the cross) knew nothing about the D,B and R? Read Luke chapter 18: 31-34. Also the gospel of John in chapter 20, John 20: 9 states he, John, didn’t know about the resurrection until that very moment when he looked into the tomb. If they had known they’d probably have been outside the tomb after sunset on Saturday waiting don’t you think? The heart of the gospel of grace is the resurrection as Paul teaches… from what Paul learned by revelation.

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82. Terri August 11, 2021 at 2:05 am

    Thank you very much for explaining how to understand the Word vs. being confused about faith alone vs faith plus works. I recently prayed for understanding of the Word about this and your writing has helped me to understand. Thanks be to God for answering my prayers!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 11, 2021 at 8:08 am

       Terri,
       We have a God who answers prayers and am delighted the article was helpful. God bless you as He continues to give you light.

       Reply ↓
83. Adrian October 9, 2021 at 6:44 pm

    Hi to all,
    May I ask if the words of Jesus that He told John to write, have a meaning to the discussion?

    In Revelation, Jesus explains his judgement of each one of the seven churches.

    Are both law and grace in Jesus words to us, in His Revelation via John? Jesus itemises what is right and what is wrong with each church. Does Jesus warn each church? Why bother if grace alone is sufficient to save all people and each of the churches in Revelation?

    Revelation is the last book in the Bible.

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 9, 2021 at 10:28 pm

       Adrian,
       The message Jesus gave in Revelation 2-3 was to Jewish congregations that would potentially experience the Tribulation in that generation. Each congregation was warned that they must “overcome” to gain eternal life. “Overcoming” meant to remain faithful and not take the mark of the Beast, the unforgivable sin Jesus spoke of, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirt. This warning was an echo of His warning in Matthew 10.22, 24.13-14; Mark 13.13. Revelation is the last book location-wise but not the last book written. The last book written was 2 Timothy. See Colossians 1.25. Paul completed the New Testament.

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84. Joe October 10, 2021 at 10:46 am

    Don,

    Rev. 22:18-19 warn us not to change or add to ‘this book’. I assume it’s the book or Rev being talked about. When did the ‘theory’ that the 7 churches in Rev 1-3 represented the history/evolution of the Church begin? John knew little of the Church. Post crucifixion doctrine was given to Paul. What internal/external evidence show’s John writing after 70AD? thank you

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 13, 2021 at 6:48 pm

       Joe,
       Thomas Brightman, 16th c., was the first to give a historicist interpretation of Revelation regarding the “7 churches.” See my article, Understanding the Book of Revelation, for evidence John wrote after 70 A.D.

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85. The Truther October 12, 2021 at 3:56 pm

    I can believe in God, and Christ no problem!

    I cannot believe a murderer of Christians got a New gospel from Jesus, all alone by himself with no witnesses. I cannot believe the EXACT same thing happened to Constantine and Joseph Smith. If most Christians would read the story of Constantine, they would start to see the truth. They dont realize their Bible, Creed and Many Traditions are from Constantine and not Christ. Christ said we will know true believers by the works they do. Constantine and Paul were both murderers! You cant be cutting off head of Christians and then all of the sudden say, oh hey guys Jesus just appeared to me and told me to stop killing you, and by the way he gave me a new gospel, and by the way the Gospel of the Kingdom he preached is false. Sounds to me like killing Christians wasnt enough to stop them, he had to infiltrate them, still didnt work lol.

    Jesus Ascended in to Heaven at the Ascension, he did not say he was gonna come back and talk to Paul, Constantine and Joseph Smith. When HE comes back you will all know it, it wont be a secret. There are NOT 3 Second Comings there is 1. He warned of wolves in sheep’s clothing, and ANTICHRISTS!

    Christ is the Light of the World NOT Paul, Constantine and Joseph Smith. I cannot risk eternity for views and stories of Men, I cannot take the words of murderers over Christ!

    GOOD IS STILL OUT THERE!

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 12, 2021 at 6:36 pm

       The Truther,
       You witness against yourself. Your statement reveals you are lost—-without Christ, without hope, without eternal life. Come to Christ and your eyes will open. At present, you are blinded by the god this world, Satan. The way to Christ is through Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. There is no other path.

       Reply ↓
    2. Alicia November 7, 2021 at 5:20 pm

       You do not have the Word of God at all. Have you taken scissors and cut out Romans through Philemon yet? And if you have what is the worth of what you have left if you can’t trust that it was ALL preserved in the canon of scripture as the inspired Word of God? You base your faith on ———nothing . . . but arrogance.

       Reply ↓
86. The Truther October 13, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

    IT DOES NOT SAY Paul is the way the truth and the life!

    Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” So then, you will know them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’”

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 13, 2021 at 4:31 pm

       The Truther,
       Yes, Jesus is the Way. How is one saved? How does one come to the Father? To whom did Jesus speak the words you quoted? Whom did Paul say was the way?

       Reply ↓
87. Betsy October 15, 2021 at 12:53 am

    Interesting article, and I am appreciative of your reference to Acts 15 from v 6. One tends to forget scriptures en it is dangerous to read only a person’s writing who is pro or for an argument. I am still not specifically anywhere on this. So….here are my questions : The book of Revelation. JESUS’s letter to the church in Ephesus (Asia) “I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false”. To be read in connection with Acts 21:17 onwards, Paul’s visit to the Apostle James and in his 2nd letter to Timothy 1:15. The Ehesian church REALLY rejected Paul as a false prophet and Jesus praised them for that in his letter to them in Revelation…..also 2:14, the eating of food sacrificed to idols, despite Acts 15 instruction. How do you reconcile these facts?

    2nd Question : Paul is not one of the 12 Apostles whos names are on the 12 foundations of the new Jerusalem, yet we know that Paul called himself “a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” in 1 Tim 2:7.
    So Paul is an Apostle of the Gentiles, why write the book of Hebrews to the Jews then? Jesus told them to not call anyone Teacher for He alone is their teacher Mat 23:8. Unless you are wrong and Paul dit NOT right the book of Hebrews but maybe Barnabas did. Could be because the endless referencing to himself in the other Pauline letter are not so prevailent in the letter of Hebrews.

    Question 3
    I read through some of the comments and answers but its alot, so apologies if you answered this one somewhere. Whether Luke or Paul himself, please explain the different accounts of Paul’s conversion. His conpanions see but dont hear, then they hear but dont see, they were standing, theb they were flat on their faces, he must go and wait for instructions, then he receives it right there and then???

    Question 4
    His sheep know his voice. Why didnt Jesus just appear to the 12 again as he appeared to Paul and told them also of His new plan with Paul (after they failed to go to the Gentiles because Israel refused to repent)?

    Your article did shed light for me, but I still would rather think that instead of this “worship Paul almost” approach” that one should consider he was a flawed human, forever talking about himself, defending himself (did he lie alot so that he was always saying ‘im not lying’. ? Also him having women issues…. For being one preaching against the law he quickly jumped back to it when he could use it against women ” the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the LAW also says” 1 Cor 14:34 and women being saved through child bearing…..where did the grace go??? Poor women who are infertile….doomed forever etc. Paul….very flawed human indeed, an example why we need grace. I really can relate. The church must just stop idolizing him so. To be honest, when I am most upset about this world, I go and read Jesus. God bless

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 15, 2021 at 9:34 am

       Betsy,
       You’ve asked several questions and I’ll try to answer them summarily. The letters in Revelation 2-3 were to Jewish congregations who had believed the gospel of the kingdom, not Paul’s gospel of grace. Peter, James, John, and Jude only wrote to Jews. None of their writings were to to members of the Church, the body of Christ, saved by Paul’s gospel of grace (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Unless one understands this distinction one cannot understand Church theology. Put another way, all Church theology comes from Paul. The Church was a secret. It did not exist before Paul. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners? Revelation concerns Israel and the nations. The Church is nowhere present in it. All the language of Revelation is Jewish. It continued Jesus’ warning that the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24.13-14). No member of the Church is ever told this. The moment one believes Paul’s gospel, one is eternally secure. The evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews is overwhelming. Due to the fact that the Jewish leadership rejected Paul, he did not include his name. But Peter agreed with Paul and knew God had given Paul wisdom he and the rest of the Twelve did not have (Acts 15; 2 Peter 3.15-16). Paul wrote Hebrews because the Jews needed a formal treatise that Jesus was the Christ. Read Acts 13. Hebrews is that argument, expanded. The accounts of Saul’s conversion do not contradict one another. Here’s one explanation: https://isjesusalive.com/three-stories-of-pauls-conversion-in-acts/. Only Jews are called “sheep.” No member of the Church, the body of Christ, is every called “sheep.” It is a term exclusive to Jews. I do not understand how you arrive at “worship Paul almost.” Paul was God’s messenger of God’s grace, just as Moses was God’s messenger of God’s Law. The Jews did not worship Moses. God saved Paul to reveal the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. This gospel was a secret (Romans 16.25; Ephesians 6.19). No one knew this before Paul. God saved Paul to reveal all Church doctrine, which were Paul secrets (1 Corinthians 4.1). Paul’s salvation was like God’s saving Moses who revealed to Israel all God had to say regarding the Law. The salvation of 1 Corinthians 14.34 is not spiritual salvation but salvation in the sense of women’s safety in society, having a stable life. It is a general principle, not individual or specific. Your comments reveal you have a rather low opinion of Paul. Since I have tried to answer your questions, please answer one for me: How does one become a Christian, a member of the Church, the body of Christ?

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       1. Betsy October 15, 2021 at 9:18 pm

          Thanks for your time to answer. I admire Paul and dont have a low opinion of him. I am grateful of him and feel sorry for all he had to suffer. I do think that he was a flawed human though, but the church seem to put him at the same level as Jesus. Its like they ignore Jesus teachings and cling to Paul when it suits them. Maybe when they keep sinning and cant stop but also men who like to control women. The scripture in 1 Cor 14:34 is not the one about salvation, though I really dont think, wrt your answer it was to keep women “safe in society”. Most probably was some ill minded women he didnt agree with but then quickly jumped back on the LAW and used it as a convenient weapon to control then. You wont convince me otherwise…..and I think that “I too have the Holy Spirit”. We all get easily stuck in upbringing and we more easily fall back on whats familiar. And Paul was a teacher of the law before his conversion. The scripture avout women salvation is “Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” 1 Tim 2. As I said, no grace there. If you also take the few verses before, you see how he was also at time stuck on the blaming women thing still…..I call it the Adam syndrome (inside joke). Again, HUMAN. Wrt the sheep….not sure if you understood me. That is my point, the 12 Apostles (Jews), sheep, knew Jesus’ voice, so why did Jesus not just appear to them as He did to Paul and tell them, “there is this Paul guy coming and you must not fight with him”.
          Wrt the Revlation letter to the “Jewish church in Ephesus (asia) then…..if I understand you correcly, Jesus praised them for ‘testing those who call themselves Apostles and found them to be false”. And we know they really hated Paul. It is the thing that bothers me the most.
          To answer your question. The Holy Spirit convicts you in your heart and you admit rhat you are a sinner and need Jesus as your saviour, and for your salvation. You comit your life to serving and knowing him from that day forward and confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that He died on the cross for your sins and rose again and conquered death so that you can now have eternal life through Him. But you must also sin no more (habitual sin leads to death) because you have been forgiven. I know your works cant save you, just His grace, but we will be judged according to our works after we get saved.
          So I came across your article in search of another voice after last weekend being bombarded with this “Paul is a false Apostle” claim. Your writing cleared it up for me and Im grateful…..I realized again, the Lord works with us whom he has given free will to chose. I dont ever want to reject truth, there are many deceptions…..this claim gave me sleepless nights. I do love Paul alot. I believe in the Pre-tribulatuon rapture with all my geart and Paul was given that revelation. Doubting that he is legit means I have to consider the fact that I will gave to go through the tribulation. Not a pleasant idea so yes Im relieved. I also listen to Jimmy Evans, Amir Tsarfati, JD Farag etc for encouragement but I also listen to and read the work of Dr. Michael Heisser…..eg the Divine Council, God’s family etc. interesting stuff! Have a blessed day.

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          1. doctrine Post authorOctober 15, 2021 at 10:54 pm

             Betty,
             There are a lot of Paul haters—I get this all the time. Those who claim Paul was a false apostle do not know Christ. I have never known anyone to elevate Paul to equal Christ and I have been in many different denominational and church environments. You must have had a completely different environment and experience. Paul elevated Christ more than any of the apostles and suffered for Christ more than all the other apostles combined. I do not understand your statement that when you are upset you go and read Jesus. What does that mean? Do you not think Jesus is the author of all Scripture? Do you not think Jesus (God) told Moses, Jeremiah, etc. what to write? Everything Paul wrote he received by direct communication with the risen Christ. He wrote the words of Christ. When he wrote something that was not directly from Christ he always stated this. The gospel that saves you answered correctly. One must believe Christ died for ones sins and rose from the dead. That is Paul’s gospel. Did Peter proclaim this at Pentecost? No. Why? He did not know this. He told the Jews to repent from killing their Messiah and that Christ was risen and could return to be their king. He knew nothing of salvation by faith alone by believing Christ died for his sins and rose from the dead. That was a revelation Christ gave to Paul alone. This was why Paul called this gospel a secret. So, my first statement that those who call Paul a false apostle are not Christians is proved. How can one be a Christian if one rejects the gospel Paul proclaimed? How can Paul proclaim the gospel of salvation and be a false teacher? How could Peter write what he did about Paul in 2 Peter 3.15-16? The Revelation passage (Ephesus) has nothing to do with Paul. If you read Peter, James, John, Jude they constantly warn against false teachers (Jews who denied Jesus was the Messiah). Paul had his own problems with those he sarcastically called “super-apostles” to the Corinthians. Your statement about 1 Corinthians 14 shows a misunderstanding of Paul. Paul did not try to “control” women. The Corinthian church had a lot of problems. Paul was trying to solve those problems. I do not know specifically what was involved but Paul always wished to have order, civility, and decency prevail. He wasn’t trying to put women “under the Law.” He was trying to preserve civility and and the divine order of creation (1 Corinthians 11). Paul loved women, wished their best, and many women worked with Paul, whom he commended. See Romans 16.

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88. Bahate October 22, 2021 at 1:24 pm

    Don and everyone,

    The most important thing for which I thank God, regarding His special revelation to Paul is that God Himself made it possible for the early apostles to testify of Paul’s special ministry. Had it not been revealed to Peter and the Twelve about the genuinty and specialty of Paul’s ministry, so many people could hold God accountable for failure to account for the authenticity of Paul’s ministry. But, glory be to God, all the necessary part for Him to play, He did. All that remains is for individual’s stony hearts to believe God’s word. It’s my prayer that as many people as possible should have their eyes, ears and hearts opened so that they should be witnesses to the goodness of God as revealed in His words, which can felt only when scriptures are rightly divided.

    Amen.

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89. Isaac October 26, 2021 at 10:15 pm

    Jesus spoke of and used the term Advocate of the Holy Ghost, a spokesman who was promised to the believers when He spoke to the disciples in John 14:16 and John 15:26. Did these promises apply of this Lawyer, who was promised to come to aid to the disciples and believers under the kingdom gospel only, or does it also apply to those who are saved through Paul’s principles, hence 1 Cor 15:1-4? Are these reffered passages in the gospel of John not ment to us but only for us, as believers under of the grace gospel? Has the Holy Spirit changed its function and nature for believers under the grace gospel?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 27, 2021 at 1:06 pm

       Isaac,
       The word “Advocate” in 1 John 2.1 is παράκλητος, translated elsewhere by John as “Comforter,” “Helper,” for the Holy Spirit. In 1 John it clearly refers to Jesus.

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       1. Isaac from Norwy October 27, 2021 at 8:57 pm

          Don,

          I already knew that, which means that I didn’t get an adequate answer to my questions. Can I ask you like this; does the functions of the Holy Spirit remain the same for believers of Pauls gospel, thereby the body of Christ Eph 4:4-5 compared to John 14:16 and John 15:26? Do you mean that Jesus is the only Advocate for members in the body of Christ, that believers today are left orphans in this world?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorOctober 27, 2021 at 9:28 pm

             Isaac,
             The answer to your question is this: Examine what Jesus said about the Holy Spirit in John 14, 15, 16, how Peter, James, John, and Jude wrote about the Holy Spirit, and compare it to Paul what Paul wrote. Why would you conclude we are orphans? See Romans 8.14; Galatians 4.6-7.

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90. Apostate M November 21, 2021 at 12:52 pm

    This thread is exactly why I walked away from religion and Xtianity, in particular. This issue is confusing, not clear, and arguably from god as it is in the holy book itself.

    I had argued for two decades why the theology of Paul and ministry Jesus could be reconciled and in truth, they are contrary to each other. Moreover, Paul never references the teachings or miracles of Jesus’ public ministry in the building of the Pauline theology.

    How is Paul’s teaching a valid extension of Christ’s if he never referred to anything that Christ taught or the miracles that he did? It appears to me that Paul disqualifies himself for several reasons (also stated here in this thread by conscientious objectors) and not the least of which is that Paul did not build upon theology with any specific references to Christ’s teachings. Paul did quote the OT and the Psalms throughout the book of Romans, but never the gospels’ quotes of Jesus.

    If someone is building a teaching based on a public figure, then it is reasonable to expect them to draw conclusions from what the public figure is publicly known for teaching and doing. Again, Paul omits the miracles and teachings of Christ in developing his theology (i.e., the 13 books of the NT). There is a clear distinction and choice between following Christ and following Paul’s teaching, as outlined on the post and in the responses.

    The confusion, the hostile debating, the attacks on the people who disagree by those defending some form of Xtianity is why religion is no good. Religion divides people. Religion brings out the ugliest passions of people defending it. (I speak from prior experience.)

    I reject Christ, Paul, Xtianity, all religion, and church, at this point. After reading this post and the responses, I regret having looked back to see if I had any reason to believe or be at all religious once again. With that said, I expect a number of angry names and descriptions in response to me– and taken from the very same Bible that this confusion is so passionately argued over.

    I hope you all figure it out…or leave it all behind as I did. I’m done.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 21, 2021 at 1:19 pm

       Apostate M,
       Apparently you did not really read the article. Had you, you would have seen that there is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul, only two different programs. Jesus’ earthly ministry concerned God’s prophetic program with Israel and the nations. What the risen Christ revealed to Paul was God’s heavenly program that concerns the Church. If you mix these programs, confusion and contradiction ensures. Keep them separate and there is clarity.

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    2. Joe November 21, 2021 at 6:48 pm

       Apostate M,

       I’m interested, not in what you don’t believe but in what you do believe? If you are an atheist do you believe everything came out of the Big Bang…that something came from nothing? Just curious.

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    3. cpb November 23, 2021 at 8:07 am

       ApostateM,

       “After reading this post and the responses, I regret having looked back to see if I had any reason to believe or be at all religious once again.”

       Here is the only reason you need. Even though you currently see God as your enemy…

       God reconciled you to himself through the death of his Son, and having been reconciled you will be saved by his life (Ro 5:10). He did this on his own accord, motivated by pure love, with no worthiness or contribution on your part “that grace might be grace” (Ro 11:6).

       This truth is the fullness of the revelation of God’s plan, given to His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, of which Paul was made a minister. My prayer for you (and for all) is that you come to the knowledge of the truth so that it may become personal for you and guide your life.

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91. Kenneth Joner December 29, 2021 at 9:57 am

    In 2021 verbage, this is WOKE churchianity. According to Luke, who is ALLEGEDLY inspired, the Biblical paul worshipped this way >> Act 24:14  But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 
    Then in this verse, how does Paul tell the Corinthians this >> 1Co 11:1  Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 
    It is very obvious that this group does not believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is the Word of the LORD, as john proudly proclaims in john 1:1.
    It was the Word of the LORD Who spoke to, and through Moses and the prophets. Obviously, this group thinks that their Jesus mutated or was modified from the Word fo the LORD, to the NEW Jesus that does not speak the same words. The Word is the commonality between the Word of the LORD, and the Word made flesh.
    You are making YOUR PAUL not follow the Scripture that he worshipped by, and mesmerizing and bewitching people reading your material. Such is the way in the great apostasia. And by the way, apostasia and apostasion, in the Greek, deal with divorcement. As a Greekicizer, you probably alread know this, but verify it anyway.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 29, 2021 at 10:42 am

       Kenneth,
       How does one come to know God according to your theology? How is one saved from sin and death?

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92. H Smith January 4, 2022 at 1:08 am

    I imagine most landing on this page are going through a some kind of crisis in faith, and they desperately want answers to the internal contradictions such as Paul v Jesus.

    ‘Jesus was not talking to you because you are the wrong race’ is an interesting approach to harmonisation, but probably not one that will keep many in the faith.

    I am at the point where I no longer expect or require scriptural clarity and cohesion. I will not let expectations of inerrancy and demands for clarity kill my faith. Scripture has contradictions, mistakes, and writings that probably do not belong. Nonetheless, G-d is real and I follow Him, & not because of some promises of eternal life or threats of eternal punishment, but because I love Him. good luck to all.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 4, 2022 at 8:51 am

       H Smith,
       It seems you missed the point of the article (if you read it). The point was to explain apparent contradictions and show that when the Scriptures are understood correctly, seeming contradictions disappear. My sense is that people do not come to this page from a crisis of faith but simply that they know something is wrong from what they have heard from the pulpit and are seeking answers. The article provides the answer as to why there is confusion. Unless one understands who wrote, to whom was is written, under what circumstances one cannot understand the Scriptures. The great problem in Christendom is the failure to understand Paul and His role—that he was not an appendage to the Twelve but God’s unique apostle to begin the Church and reveal all Church doctrine. Once this is understood confusion and contradictions disappear.

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93. ApostleGloria January 7, 2022 at 11:52 pm

    I was met with many unanswered questions until recently, I began to critically look into some things about Paul’s writings. On the Facebook one time, I tried to convince my audience that, according to the Word of God through Christ, if anyone breaks any of the least commandments and teaches men so, the same shall be called the least in God’s Kingdom. Someone responded to me the words of Paul that we are justified only by grace through faith. i tried to argue that God did not abolish the moral laws He gave to Moses, and according to Hebrews 8:10, the new covenant means that the letters of the law are written in our hearts and no longer on those tablets of stones, but the crowd again attacked me on teaching heresy. I would quote the words of Christ, someone else would quote from Paul…each being scripture. Now, concerning foods, I tried to convince them that God still requires us not to eat unclean foods…but Paul said that foods clean and unclean can be sanctified, and made clean…that to whom anything is unclean, it is unclean for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. MHHH! I was called a heretic, again. Scriptures were flying out from all angles…
    Now, Paul so much undermined the place of a woman in the ministry that she is supposed to be silent and rather ask her husband at home. A woman should not preach. I AM A WOMAN. God nearly KILLED ME AND ALL MY CHILDREN BECAUSE i WAS RUNNING FROM MY CALLING. When I answered He did not only ordain me a Bishop but also took me calling to a much higher level. But here we see Paul condemning women ministrations.
    Now, it all makes sense. It was Paul! From creation, God gave women a prominent place. Besides being the mother of all living, she is the bearer of the seed that would bruise the serpent’s head. Deborah was a woman: a military leader, a prophetess, and a Judge in Israel, we saw Queen Esther and ll the women of the Old Testament even including the Harlot that helped the spies.
    Now, during the Ministry of Jesus, we saw people like Prophetess Anna who served the LORD in the Temple day and Night and confirmed the identity of the LORD Jesus Christ, we also saw the roles of women in His Ministry especially Mary Magdaline who became the bearer of the news of His resurrection, the first person He met after His resurrection. We also saw the woman of Samaria who brought the LORD Jesus into Samaria for two days. But Apostle Paul so under-rated womanhood in the ministry that people are simply confused…for him, a woman should be keepers at home….I now understand. It was Apostle Paul. He was a lawyer, and a learned man in the Pharisees sect…but I believe he had a conversion. He was against legalism, and the tradition of the elders,…yet, he preached many out-of-order gospels. The LORD Jesus commanded that repentance and remission of sins be preached…He made it clear that one could do all manner of great works, but without doing the Will of God, such a person will not enter God’s Kingdom. I don’t think that is Paul’s gospel because people descended on me when I preached: faith with works, whereas Apostle Paul preached faith alone. But at other times the same Apostle preached works…work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 8, 2022 at 8:59 am

       ApostleGloria,
       What you have written reveals many misunderstandings. Paul loved and honored women. Many women were involved in his ministry. What Paul taught regarding women was obedience to God’s divine order regarding men and women. Men and women are different. God has a design and purpose for each sex. Paul understood women very well and what he taught was to protect women and ensure peace and order in the churches. The ascended Lord chose Paul to begin the Church. The Church is nowhere present in the Old Testament, Gospels, or the writings of Peter, James, John, or Jude. All Church doctrine comes from Paul. There is only one gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. This was the gospel the ascended Lord gave him (Galatians 1.11-12. No one can know God or experience His salvation apart from believing this gospel. We are not under the administration of the Mosaic Law but under the administration of grace, guided by the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is what Paul taught. The Holy Spirit does not lead one to sin. Thus, we keep the Law, not by being under the Law but by being under the control of the Spirit.

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       1. Keith January 8, 2022 at 9:55 am

          Could I just add that with Paul, we have to “keep reading” when it appears that he is teaching a works-based gospel. He is referring to what was, under Christ’s earthly ministry, then eventually writes “But now” or “But” to distinguish the new paradigm for salvation. Now we have, as believers in His death burial and resurrection, salvation as a current condition, an irrevocable standing with God. When Paul wrote “work out your salvation…” he wasn’t talking about performing “good works” he was talking about the edifying process all believers experience as they learn and grow. Some go nowhere, others go on to learn the deeper things of God through Scripture. Jesus had an earthly ministry that was distinct, for the Jewish people, that would have been taken to the gentile world had they accepted Him. They didn’t, they failed, and God went in an entirely new direction through Paul. Everything changed, works are no longer required. God is only concerned, today, with people coming to a knowledge of what was revealed to Paul.

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       2. annette baskerville June 17, 2022 at 1:38 am

          Yes. Don – you are correct. I have finally come to understand that the Divine Order is not just a primitive narrative. It is ongoing and authoritative. I bow to it.
          When we abandon it we end up with the contemporary mess we’re in, in the world – boys become girls and vice versa, men marry men and even so with women, the most lewd and debased human behaviors are celebrated and publicized, innocent blood is spilled by the mega-gallons.
          In the church we have a similar mess – whole denominations rebel at and defy God’s order – resulting in division and apostasy.
          Christian women have freedom and liberty to use their intelligence and skills in all sorts of ways but not to usurp their properly un-authoritative role in the body of Christ. All must be done with respect to the Divine Order and Paul’s Christ-given instructions for governing the church i.e. women don’t teach scripture in the assembly and only men may be elders (although I think they may seek the advice, opinion and special expertise of women when it seems wise).
          Ladies – this is tough for many of us to accept but that’s the nature of the yoke. Defend women’s natural rights to safety, respect, education and participation, but unyoke yourself at your own expense.

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94. Phantom January 16, 2022 at 8:28 am

    Thank you for this Awesome article once again Mr Don.. I’ve read all your articles, though I do not agree with just a few of them, yare one person truly respect and have learnt a great deal from..
    Please can u do an article on the law and the Temple and the significance of every aspect of the sacrificial rites and significance of every part of the Temple.. How they all served as pointers to Christ and salvation

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 21, 2022 at 8:33 am

       Phantom,
       Thank you.

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95. William Stroud May 6, 2022 at 1:24 am

    So many errors in this article…where to start. First, Jesus did not teach keeping the Mosaic, or ceremonial law, as a means of salvation but as a demonstration of faith in the grace of God. The same as how we keep the 10 commandments to demonstrate our faith and not as a means to be saved. All, before and after the cross are and were saved by grace through Faith in Christ. Second , if Jesus spoke of the nation of Israel as God’s people, even though they were initially given the knowledge and blessings of God, why did He, near the end of His earthy ministry announce “Behold, your temple is left unto you desolate. He knew all believers, true believers, Jew and gentile, to be the “Israel of God. Etc, etc. Jesus and Paul’s messages harmonize perfectly when you look deeply and intently, with the and of an invited guest and teacher, the Holy Spirit. Blessings to you in your studies.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 6, 2022 at 9:13 am

       William,
       How is a person saved today? What does one believe? Is it the same as what Abraham, Moses, David, the Twelve believe?

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       1. Joe May 6, 2022 at 4:30 pm

          Doctrine,

          I’m afraid that is the question that makes the crickets (not critics) so noticeable. It gets very quiet after you ask that question. I’ve yet to read the answer to your question from any of your ‘critics’. To me the answer (to what saves) is 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4. The definite article ‘the’ in front of the word gospel makes it pretty, well, definite. The 11 didn’t know the impact of the resurrection and John, himself, says he/they didn’t even know about the resurrection until John 20:9.

          #2. Really? Keep the 10 commandments? Are we to keep the sabbath? Paul sums up the 10 commandments in Gal. 5:14 as ‘love your neighbor as yourself’.

          #3. As to “The Israel of God”. Paul has been talking about (and to) believing Gentiles…believers in Galatia. At the end of Galatian’s (Galatians 6:15) Paul tells them they are, as believers, part of the ‘new creation’. In the very next verse, (Galatian’s 6:16) he includes saved Jews as part of this ‘new creation’…”The Israel of God”. Remember, after salvation we are all a ‘new creation’ neither Jew or Gentile. 2 Cor. 5:17.

          ——Doctrine, please correct me where/if I’m wrong. Thanks

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          1. doctrine Post authorMay 7, 2022 at 8:52 am

             Joe,
             Yes. Interesting isn’t it? We fulfill the moral law under the governance of the Holy Spirit (Romans 6.14). As for “Israel of God,” see my article, “Israel” as a Technical Term.

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             1. William Stroud May 20, 2022 at 6:17 am

                Yes, we fulfil the moral law, the 10 commandments. under the “governance” of the Holy Spirit.
                We cannot do it on our own. We need the Holy Spirit to work a change in us, to sanctify us, so we, yes “we” fulfil the moral law. He doesn’t do it “for” us but does a work in us, giving us new hearts, so we will love Him and His law. His law is a transcript of His character. If we love Him we will love His law. Jesus said “If you love me you will keep my commandments”. Keep them, ourselves. Not by our own strength. Blessing to you and hope to hear from you.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMay 20, 2022 at 9:05 am

                   William,
                   Agree. Why do Peter, James, John, and Jude not mention the operational power of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life, never mention the New Covenant or its inauguration, the Lord’s supper?

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                   1. William Stroud May 21, 2022 at 2:57 am

                      Hi dPa. Thanks for getting back so quickly. I may be a little slow but I’m not sure why you are asking this. Regardless, the way I read these books I do see these topics covered to one extent or another. Johns gospel is all over these subjects in chapters 13 – 17. And in 1 Peter 1:17 & 19, 2:23-24. James deals with sanctification, an operation of the Holy Spirit. Likewise with Jude. If anything is not covered by one writer it is covered by another, either in the old or new testaments.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2022 at 8:39 am

                         William,
                         I see nothing in the passages you cite about the operational work of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer. Where do you find James talking about the Holy Spirit? Jesus speaks of the Spirit in the gospel of John but John what I am saying is that Peter, James, John, and Jude do not discuss the operational activity of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers.

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          2. William Stroud May 20, 2022 at 6:03 am

             Hi Joe. The Gospel, the “Everlasting” gospel to be exact. Everlasting from when. The “gospel”, from my understanding is the “good news”. When were humans first told of the good news. In Genesis I believe, was it not? The woman’s seed would crush the serpents head and the serpent would bruise His heal. Satan would be defeated and the Son of God would prevail over Satan and over sin.

             2) Do we not keep the Commandments of God? His moral law. Yes, even now. Do you worship other gods?. Do you worship idols? Do you use His Holy Name in vain? Do you honor your mother and father? Do you honor life that only He can provide? Are you faithful to your spouse? Do you take only what is rightfully yours? Do you tell the truth? Do you covet someone else’s goods? I think not. So if you love God supremely and your neighbor as your self I would hope you do your best to live in accordance with His law. Oh, yeah…What about the Sabbath. Did God change it? If so, please give me the chapter and verse. If you are going to give those about breaking bread on “the first day” or of taking up collections for the saints on that day, uh…I trow not. Please find a plain thus sayeth the Lord and I’m with you.

             3) The Israel of God includes both literal Jews and gentiles. It is, and has been, the church of God. If literal Jews or gentiles are to be a part of the church of God they must, we all must be made new. No one is born a member of His church. You are not baptized in as a baby. You must make a decision to serve Him and to let Him change you and make you new.

             I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts. Blessings and peace to youj.

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             1. Joe May 21, 2022 at 7:01 am

                William,
                Paul spoke/speaks of secretes never revealed since the creation of the world. The 12, along with all OT writers, never knew these things Paul taught. Paul revealed what he called “my gospel”. Paul’s gospel is something no one before had ever taught because they never knew. The gospel revealed to Paul by our risen Lord is 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

                Because, …”if they had known it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” 1 Cor 2:8

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          3. William Stroud May 21, 2022 at 3:15 am

             Hi Joe. The Gospel, the “Everlasting” gospel to be exact. Everlasting from when. The “gospel”, from my understanding is the “good news”. When were humans first told of the good news. In Genesis I believe, was it not? The woman’s seed would crush the serpents head and the serpent would bruise His heal. Satan would be defeated and the Son of God would prevail over Satan and over sin.

             2) Do we not keep the Commandments of God? His moral law. Yes, even now. Do you worship other gods?. Do you worship idols? Do you use His Holy Name in vain? Do you honor your mother and father? Do you honor life that only He can provide? Are you faithful to your spouse? Do you take only what is rightfully yours? Do you tell the truth? Do you covet someone else’s goods? I think not. So if you love God supremely and your neighbor as your self I would hope you do your best to live in accordance with His law. Oh, yeah…What about the Sabbath. Did God change it? If so, please give me the chapter and verse. If you are going to give those about breaking bread on “the first day” or of taking up collections for the saints on that day, uh…I trow not. Please find a plain thus sayeth the Lord and I’m with you.

             3) The Israel of God includes both literal Jews and gentiles. It is, and has been, the church of God. If literal Jews or gentiles are to be a part of the church of God they must, we all must be made new. No one is born a member of His church. You are not baptized in as a baby. You must make a decision to serve Him and to let Him change you and make you new.

             I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts. Blessings and peace to youj.

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       2. William Stroud May 20, 2022 at 4:21 am

          Thanks for your reply. Today a person is saved by grace through faith.There is no way to earn salvation. Not by keeping God’s law. We cannot do it. It was the same with the patriarchs. They were not saved by shedding the blood of their sacrificial offerings of a lamb or goat. They wear saved by grace through their faith in a promised savior to come. I guess they didn’t all understand these things, like people today don’t fully understand that we are not saved by our works. Our works show that we are saved. Same for the patriarchs. Their sacrifice of animals show their faith in God’s grace. We and they, who are saved, know it is only by God’s grace. We are the same. And God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God does not change, does He? Blessings to you and thanks again.

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          1. doctrine Post authorMay 20, 2022 at 9:02 am

             William,
             In our last exchange, I asked, “How is a person saved today? What does one believe? Is it the same as what Abraham, Moses, David, the Twelve believed?” Your reply does not answer these questions. What does the Scripture say about how Abraham was saved? What does the Scripture say about how Jews were saved during Jesus’ earthly ministry? What do the Scriptures say about how one is saved today? These are basic questions every believer should be able to answer.

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             1. William Stroud May 21, 2022 at 3:14 am

                Hi again dPa. Yes, you did ask about salvation, pre and post Calvary. I believe the Bible tells us all, were and are, saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves least anyone should boast. It, faith, is the gift of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. In the beginning was the Word. He was in the beginning. He has not changed. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, no? The Jews and people who existed even before there was a Jew were saved by grace through faith. Same as us. Same as every human that ever existed or will exist. Has anyone, ever, earned his or her salvation or obtained in any other way than by grace. None that I know of, and I have looked through the Bible a few times.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2022 at 8:31 am

                   William,
                   Yes, that is generally true. But you misquote Ephesians 2.8. It does not say one is saved “by grace through faith” but “by the grace through the faith.” Much different. Also, faith is not the gift. Grammatically, it is impossible for faith to be the gift for both grace and faith are feminine nouns and “this” is neuter. Pronouns must agree with their antecedents. But what I am asking is what one believes for salvation? What did Abraham believe for salvation? Those during Jesus’ ministry, we today? Is it all the same thing? If so, what is it? If different, what is it? If you were to witness to someone what would you tell them they had to believe to be saved?

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96. William Stroud May 21, 2022 at 7:01 am

    Sorry again for getting mixed up about how to leave comments. To dPa, as to the question about what one believes. We each believe what we choose to believe. I have no idea what others believe. I can only assume they believed God and it was counted to them as righteousness. They were obedient to the best of their abilities, knowing that they were unable to save themselves and were entirely reliant upon God’s mercy and grace. I assume they did as they believed in God’s word, whether it meant leaving their homes, sacrificing their son, being circumcised, keeping the commandments, being baptized or surrendering their hearts to God. Or all of the above either literally or spiritually. One great thing about Him is that He allows us to think what we want and do what we want, whether righteousness unto life or sin unto death. Blessings to you and hope to hear from you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2022 at 8:45 am

       William,
       The Scriptures tell us what they believed. We don’t have to guess. What does the Scripture say Abraham believed? What does the Bible say Peter, Nathaniel, Martha, Paul believed? What was the content of the gospel of the kingdom? What does the Scripture say we must we believe for salvation? We do not have to guess. The Bible specifically tells us.

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97. William Stroud May 21, 2022 at 10:43 am

    Dear dPa. My Bible doesn’t say “the” grace or faith. It does say “the gift”. The gift being salvation by grace through faith. I’m not sure what you’re getting at as far as what people must believe to receive the gift. What we must believe is God’s Word that says the wages due to every sinner is death but salvation and forgiveness are available to all who will ask God for it and receive a new heart, aka, be born again. Belief is…interesting. The Bible says the devils believe and tremble. So it’s more than believing, it’s change or sanctification, no? I would tell someone they must believe they are a helpless sinner whose only hope is a personal relationship with Jesus, amen? The gospel of the kingdom as I understand it is that He can be your king and savior right here, right now. It has been like that from the beginning. A saving relationship with Him is and has always been available to anyone who will receive it. Praise the Lord. Blessings to you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2022 at 12:10 pm

       William,
       Your Bible says “the grace through the faith” in the Greek text. The translators have poorly translated. It is salvation that is the gift, not grace or faith. So, would you not tell someone Christ died for his sins and rose from the dead for salvation? The gospel of the kingdom focused on Christ’s identity, who He was. Read what Peter, Nathaniel, Martha said. The gospel of the kingdom has nothing to do with the Church. Paul’s gospel focuses on Christ’s work: His death for our sins and resurrection. Peter and the Twelve knew nothing of this gospel. Had they, there would have been no need for a Jerusalem council. Had Peter known Paul’s gospel he would have proclaimed it at Pentecost and later at the Temple. Unless you understand these basic truths, you cannot understand Church theology.

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98. William Stroud May 28, 2022 at 2:02 pm

    Dear dPa. I’m not sure where you want to go with this. I must disagree with a lot of what you have said. Salvation is the gift, yes. I think “the gospel” is the good news that Jesus, the Son of God, the Word made flesh, the Creator of all that is, became one of us while maintaining His divinity and allowed Himself to be killed so His death would be a substitute for every sinner in order for them to have salvation, yes. But “The gospel of the kingdom has nothing to do with the Church”, “Peter and the Twelve knew nothing of this gospel”, “Had Peter known Paul’s gospel he would have proclaimed it at Pentecost and later at the Temple”…none of that makes any sense. The gospel has everything to do with the church. Those who believe the gospel and surrender to Jesus, are the church and visa versa. Peter and the disciples, as well as every born again Christian, know and knew about the gospel. Peter and the disciples, after Jesus was risen, proclaimed “the gospel” every chance they had. BTW, “Paul’s gospel” is the gospel of Jesus Christ, no? “The gospel”. The Bible tells us of “the everlasting gospel” and “the everlasting covenant”. It’s all one. No old and new, no Paul and Jesus. And this is where I came in. My point is that it is all one, cover to cover. There is no old testament god and new testament god. It’s Jesus, the same etc. Maybe since you think I lack understanding, you can enlighten me about church theology. Understanding all the technical points of “Church theology” does not get someone saved. Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ does and you don’t need a big brain and to be able to articulate your thoughts persuasively to have that. It’s for everyone my brother. Blessings.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 28, 2022 at 7:37 pm

       William,
       What I have been trying to elicit from you is what a person must believe to be saved. You have not told me. Your response indicates you do not know what one must believe for salvation. Do you think you are saved? If so, how do you know? What is the Scriptural basis of assurance of salvation? You have said salvation is by grace through faith. Yes. Do you think Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter, etc. believed the same thing for salvation? If so, what was it? Earlier I asked what the Bible says about what Peter, Nathaniel, Martha, Paul believed for salvation but you will not answer. Why is that? This is not “big brain” stuff. It’s so simple a little child can understand. But you must be willing to believe the Scriptures.

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99. William Stroud May 31, 2022 at 2:46 am

    Hi dPa. I guess I don’t understand what God requires for a person to be saved. I thought it was to acknowledge, believe and confess that I am a sinner deserving of death (the wages of sin) and that Jesus, the Son of God became a man, maintaining His divinity, and came to earth, dying in my place that I might receive His righteousness and be accepted into the beloved of God. Mistakenly, evidently, according to you, I believed that every saved person, beginning at Adam and continuing until the end of time, believed the same thing. God’s Word. Please help me understand. Would you please share with me the answer to these questions that I might be saved? What does “the scripture” say that I am missing? Sincerely, please help me understand. Thank you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 31, 2022 at 7:51 pm

       William,
       The clearest definition of the gospel of salvation, the gospel by which we must be saved by today, is 1 Corinthians 15.1-4: 1 Now I declare to you, brethren, the gospel that I proclaimed to you, which you also received, by which also you stand, 2 through which also you are saved, if you possess that message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first what I also received: Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,4 and that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures. Did Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter, etc. believe this for salvation? Of course not. They had no idea Christ was going to be crucified and rise from the dead to save them from sin. If there is any doubt about this, read Luke 18.31-34, John 20.8-9. We know what Abraham believed: Genesis 15.4-6. We know from John 1 and 11 what Nathaniel and Martha believed for salvation. The point is that people have been saved by believing what God has revealed at a particular time. One cannot believe something God has not revealed. The gospel of the kingdom that began with John the Baptist was that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. That gospel focused on Jesus’ identity, who He was. That was what one had to believe from John the Baptist until Paul. After the ascended Lord saved Paul, He revealed to him a new gospel of salvation, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. That gospel focuses, not on Jesus’ identify but on His work. Did Peter proclaim this gospel on the day of Pentecost or at the Temple? No. Why? He knew nothing of it. None of those who were with Jesus in His earthly ministry knew this gospel. Because of this, there was a great controversy about how one was saved which led to the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). At the end of that council, Peter ended the gospel of the kingdom and declared everyone had to be saved by Paul’s gospel. Clear? See my articles, The Great Hinge and The Gospel of the Kingdom for details.

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100. William Stroud June 3, 2022 at 4:09 pm

     Dear dPa. Thanks for the reply. I strongly disagree that the patriarchs “…had no idea Christ was going to be crucified and rise from the dead to save them from sin”. They should have. God explained it to them. Immediately after the fall God placed a curse upon the serpent, put enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpents seed and told him he (the serpent) would bruise the heel of the seed of the woman (Jesus) and that her seed would bruise or crush his head. God then killed part of His creation, a lamb, and made skins to cover Adam and Eve. Do you think God kept His plan of salvation a secret from the first couple? Adam’s children knew of the plan also and is evidenced by them bringing offerings to God, in Abel’s case, “…of the firstlings of his flock” representing Christ’s offering of Himself. Do you suppose The Plan was kept from Enoch who “…walked with God”. Noah who took pairs of unclean animals on board the ark and seven individuals of the clean animals…for offerings representing Christ. Abraham who was willing to offer his son to God, the great patriarch who, as Jesus Himself explained to the religious leaders of His time, “…rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad”. What “day” do you suppose He was referring to? Job knew and stated “I will see Him for myself. My eyes will behold Him and not as a stranger”. He knew. Isaiah chapters 52 & 53…He knew. Psalms 22 & 23…David knew.
     Jeremiah 23 & 33. Daniel 2, 7 & 9. Zechariah 13:6, off the top of my head. They all knew. I think many people knew and understood Gods plan of salvation. The Jews believed in a Messiah. They knew the plan. The question is, did all understand the mission of the Messiah. Answer…no. Just like today, many people know who Jesus exists but do not understand everything about Him. It’s clear, from the Bible, prior to Jesus’ first advent, there were faithful people who understood. I’m curious as can be, how do you think people were saved prior to Jesus’ death and resurrection? By their works? By obedience to the Law? If you say people can’t believe or understand something before God explains everything, to their satisfaction, why do you suppose Abraham would have been willing to sacrifice Isaac?. Perhaps because God told him that the world would be blessed through his seed. Did he understand that to be Isaac only or did he understand the deeper meaning behind the statement?. Abraham told Isaac there on the mount that God would provide Himself…a Lamb. He would provide Himself as a sacrificial lamb. Thanks again and blessings.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 4, 2022 at 9:01 am

        William,
        What your are doing is reading into the Scriptures rather than reading the Scriptures. God had revealed He would send a redeemer but how all this was going to be done was completely unknown. God had revealed He would establish His king on the earth and rule the earth. He revealed He would judge the earth. In this kingdom, the Jews would be supreme among the nations. Beyond this, little else was known. Did you read the articles I noted? As for how people were saved before Paul, they were saved by believing and doing what God had revealed. For details see my article, Faith vs. Works in James: Resolving the Problem. Did you read Luke 18.31-34 and John 20.8-9. Do you believe it? If you do, then what you have written makes no sense. No one knew how God was going to accomplish salvation until He revealed it to Paul.

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     2. Gozizi April 23, 2023 at 7:03 am

        Then why did they continue in the offering of sacrifices for the atonement for sins (Mosiac law) even after Jesus death and resurection? I think as the writer says, the believed in him as the prophesied King (Messiah) but didn’t understand Him to be the once and for all sacrifice for sins as explained to the Jewish audience in Hebrews.
        Otherwise, I am really curious how anyone who doesn’t believe the Pauline letters resolves the atonement of their sins? Are they still making animal sacrifices? Because works as I understand it still requires blood sacrifice. I pretty certain no one’s works has amounted to sinlessness to deserve salvation.

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101. William Stroud June 4, 2022 at 8:56 am

     As for the new testament folks knowing, or rather, as for God revealing His plan to people and them understanding it.Luke chapter 24:25-27 is a good one. It goes “Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
     And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. He said “…all that the prophets have spoken”. Which prophets? And “…beginning at Moses” He explained thing that were written concerning Himself. Did they know Gods plan? Everything a person needed to know about the Kingdom is in the O.T., no?

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 4, 2022 at 9:58 pm

        William,
        God’s prophetic program, of which the earthly kingdom was a part, was revealed in the prophets. But how God would solve the problem of sin and death was completely unknown. Read Acts 2 and 3. What was Peter’s message? Did he tell the Jews to believe Christ died for their sins, that His resurrection proved His work was effective, and that salvation was by faith alone? No. Do you not think if Peter had known this he would have communicated it? Peter and the rest of the Jewish leaders knew nothing of this message until they learned it from Paul. This is clear from Acts 15, Ephesians 6.19, and several other Scriptures. What you are saying is tradition, not Scripture. Read the Scriptures carefully.

        Reply ↓
102. amber lee June 20, 2022 at 8:33 pm

     You’ve failed to acknowledge the divided kingdom of Solomon by calling Galileans the Jews.
     And you’ve missed the Levirite Marriage Law in the Book of Ruth, and all that it means.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorJune 21, 2022 at 7:59 am

        Amber,
        Galileans were Jews. What does Levirite marriage have to do with the ministry of Jesus and Paul?

        Reply ↓
103. William Stroud June 21, 2022 at 1:19 am

     dPa. I could not disagree with you more. Peter in Acts 3 is saying exactly that. The plan is salvation was communicated to the Hebrews, before there ever was a Jew. Peter states this in Acts 3 and in Ephesians 3:6-18, Paul no less, states Abraham knew the plan. Do you think he did not communicate this with his ancestors? Peter states all the prophets knew these things. (Let he who reads understand). Animal sacrifice, as distasteful as it is to us now, from the beginning (Genesis 3 and continuing to the cross) pointed to the plan. Do you think they believed the animal blood truly covered their sins? Or did they believe God, that it pointed forward to the cross and was to remind them of the cost of sin? So, what are we talking about? Was Paul set apart from all the people mentioned in the Bible? Or was Jesus?!? Cover to cover, the Bible reveals Jesus and Him crucified.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorJune 21, 2022 at 8:21 am

        William,
        Yes, they believed animal blood covered their sins. They had no idea this was a shadow, a picture of a greater reality. For them, this was the reality. Please show me that Abraham, Moses, David, etc. were saved by believing Christ would be crucified, die for their sins, and rise from the dead. Please provide the verses. Please explain Luke 18.31-34. Please explain John 20.8-9. Please explain why the disciples were not at the tomb Sunday morning. Please explain why were they shocked when they learned He was not in the tomb?

        Reply ↓
104. William Stroud June 21, 2022 at 1:25 am

     dPa. Sorry, I forgot to ask… “the earthly kingdom”? What earthly kingdom are you talking about? Jesus said “My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. Thanks and blessings.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorJune 21, 2022 at 8:13 am

        William,
        If you read the prophets, the earthly kingdom was their main prophetic message. Anyone who doesn’t know about the earthly kingdom, does not know the Bible. Have you never heard the Lord’s Prayer? Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus will rule the earth. His throne will be in Zion. Zechariah 14.9. “My kingdom is not of this world” is a genitive of source, not location. Jesus told Pilate the source of His kingdom was heaven, not earth. In Genesis 15.18 God gave the Jews the land from the Nile, to the Mediterranean, to the Euphrates. That’s earth, not heaven. How can one not know this?

        Reply ↓
105. William Stroud June 28, 2022 at 4:04 pm

     dPa. How can anyone with a website called doctrine.org not know the spiritual messages in the Bible. You say the patriarchs and prophets had no idea of the true meaning of their animal sacrifices and you would like some Bible verses regarding that. I’ve already given you a bunch but I can give them again, and more. He who has ears let him hear what the Spirit says. I would suggest you pray for the Holy Spirit to guide your heart and mind and to remove any preconceived ideas you have. Then re-read the previous messages I sent you as well as these. Galatians 3:8. It says the gospel was preached to Abraham, by God. Jesus Himself explained to the religious leaders of His time, :Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad”. What “day” do you suppose He was referring to? Job knew and stated “I will see Him for myself. My eyes will behold Him and not as a stranger”. He knew. Isaiah chapters 52 & 53…He knew. Psalms 22 & 23…David knew. Jeremiah 23 & 33. Daniel 2, 7 & 9. Zechariah 13:6, They knew. Do you think God kept it a secret from His people. .In John 14:29 Jesus says :”And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe”. Do you think God said, “I’m going to do something…but I’m not going to tell you. You have to guess?” Really? He’s not the author of confusion. Here’s a passage to top it off for you. Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”. The earthly kingdom? God gave the Israelites the promised land. They crucified their Creator, their God. God gave them every chance to be His people. Isaiah 5:4, Matthew chapter 20. Then the gospel went to the gentiles, us. We are the Israel of God. Roman 2:27-29 A person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but inwardly. Will God be God on this sinful earth? Not this earth but the new earth that Israel, the Israel of God, that is His church, will inherit after sin is destroyed. You say you think the patriarchs believed that animal blood could cover their sin…Do you believe that? That the animal sacrifices cleansed their souls of sin and provided them with salvation?

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2022 at 7:24 pm

        William,
        If you really believe what you have written then you also believe the Bible is full of contradictions. Do you really think the gospel of Galatians 3.8 refers to the gospel by which we are saved? That is not what my Bible says. My Bible tells me exactly how Abraham was saved in Genesis 15. Israel always without exception refers to Jews. It never refers to the Church or Gentiles. That is apostasy. You will not read Luke 18.31-34. It tells you the apostles had no idea Christ was going to die much less be resurrected. Do you really think Israel’s faithlessness is greater than God’s promise and His sovereignty? According to you, God is a liar. He does not keep His promises. Your theology rejects God’s sovereignty. You refuse, apparently to believe that all Israel will be saved. You refuse to believe God when He declared He would join Israel and Judah and bring them into the land. Why do you refuse to believe God? Does this not make you faithless? Why should God, according to your theology, keep any promise to you? Why did Peter not tell the Jews at Pentecost to believe Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead for salvation? Read Acts 2. You believe tradition. Tradition is the foundation for your theology, not the Bible. Read the Bible; believe the Bible.

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     2. Joe June 29, 2022 at 9:06 am

        William,
        You say above, “Do you think God kept it a secret from his people”.
        Romans 16– Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

        If words have meaning then, yes, God kept it a secret until reveled to Paul.

        Reply ↓
106. TruthSeeker July 1, 2022 at 12:41 am

     Hi Don,

     Thank you for your article Jesus vs. Paul. It has given me much food for thought and solves many of the doctrinal ‘wrestling matches’ I have waged in my mind. I have always found the four gospels books difficult to read because the standard of obedience and holiness that Jesus taught is beyond what I, in my sinful nature, can achieve. Yet, they are part of my Christian bible and they contain the words of Christ himself. In light of this, here are my questions:

     1. What value are the teachings of Jesus (in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) to the non-Jew? How am I, a non-Jew, supposed to benefit from them?

     2. Did Jesus really expect the Jewish people to meet his Holy standard? Does he hold them to a higher standard than Gentiles? If so, why? Jewish people are as human as me, as sinful as me. Why didn’t they receive a gospel of grace too?

     I apologise if you have already answered these questions (or similar ones). I have read many of the responses but not all. Yours in Christ. :)

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     1. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2022 at 8:15 am

        TruthSeeker,
        The Abrahamic covenant established that all divine blessing would come through the Jews. They were to be a light to the Gentiles. Jesus told the Jews, “You are the light of the world.” Until Paul, all God had revealed was His prophetic program, God’s wrath and His earthly kingdom. They were told a Messiah would come and rule in the earthly kingdom. His role as suffering servant was shrouded in mystery. They understood that Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 were messianic but how this would be fulfilled was unknown. With Paul we have an entirely new revelation—believers are under grace, not Law, the creation of the Church, in addition to Jew and Gentile, the revelation of the Rapture, etc. Paul declared his gospel was a secret. Salvation became through faith alone rather than faith and works. The Gospels are Old Testament. They are of value in that we learn from them (Romans 15.4; 1 Corinthians 10.11). What Jesus expected was for the Jews to believe who He was. That was the salvation message. The sermon on the mount and His other teachings were to prepare them for life in the kingdom. The beatitudes is the charter for life in the kingdom. They did not receive a “gospel of grace” because God’s purpose was to fulfill His prophetic program. God held back the full display of His grace for His creation of the Church. We can ask Him why He did this when we see Him. His thoughts are not our thoughts.

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        1. Jacob H July 15, 2022 at 5:47 pm

           This is really wild. Everyone here wants to know the truth yet we all have our own interpretations. What do we do then: believe they have been blinded by the devil? No. We’ve all put in our time. We’ve all studied hard and prayed hard for answers. Yet the coming together of our studies only leads to chaos and confusion. How many times in history have christians killed other christians just for believing in the slightest differences… If God wants us to know the truth then he should show us clearly. Not everyone is able to keep up with literary mountains-climbs such as the bible. Many can’t read at all- so are they doomed to a faulty misinterpretation? There’s nothing worse than thinking that being a scholarly christian/pastor will save you or anyone else. It’s all a trap. It’s infinitely inexplicable and offensive to even the slightest ‘faulted beliefs’, I might add. I really hate that you have all wasted your time on the bible such as i have. I feel like I’ve had a huge burden taken off of my shoulders ever since I decided to stop believing in any of it. Do I see the world as a better place? No. It seems even more hopeless than before. Yet there is this peace… a peace that comes from not feeling that galactic responsibility to know secrets of the universe. I feel that I’ve lost any traces of egoism and narcissism ever since I stopped believing that I could be ‘chosen’ or ‘blessed’. Because we aren’t special and no one else has the mark of the beast. I could say so many things about how things would be better if we didn’t think we knew more than we do (which is close to nothing- and that’s OKAY).

           At the end of the day, why should we be okay with a god who knows most will fail him, who knows most will burn in hell? Would you all not, if you had the power, grant forgiveness to ALL souls, in return for your eternity? Wouldn’t it be better if we all passed into some sort of painless sleep than for just a handful of people to enter heaven while the rest burn? Do you not equally love your fellow humans, regardless of their beliefs? How could you agree with god on such torture? I only want to make you question your faith in order to have a better world for all of us. I know that it is scary but you cannot avoid it out of fear… I really hope this doesn’t get taken down and that at least one person considers what I’ve typed here. I wish all more than a pleasant day. I wish you courage to reflect on everything you’ve been told and to form a healthier response to all that you see go on in the world. Thank you

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           1. doctrine Post authorJuly 18, 2022 at 8:06 am

              Jacob H,
              How much easier can God make salvation and the message of salvation? The message is crystal clear. Believe that Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead. That’s it. Takes less than a second. 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. No excuses.

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              1. Bwb August 30, 2022 at 2:29 am

                 Not quite that simple Jacob. In Matthew 25 Jesus says very clearly that those who DO! certain things will go to heaven. And those who do NOT DO certain things will go to hell. So you can believe Christ died for your sins and rose again but still end up in hell if you don’t DO what Jesus commanded in Matt 25. Or maybe Jesus was just joking.

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                 1. doctrine Post authorAugust 30, 2022 at 8:44 am

                    Bwb,
                    In Jesus’ earthly ministry He ministered to Jews under the Mosaic Law. You are wanting to follow Jesus’ words in His earthly ministry to Israel under the Law rather than His words after He rose from the dead, His heavenly ministry. After Israel rejected their Messiah, Jesus saved Paul and gave him the gospel of salvation by faith alone, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. That is His command today. We are under grace, not Law (Romans 6.14).

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                    1. John August 31, 2022 at 12:19 pm

                       Dear doctrine,
                       I believe we are under grace, not under the Law. That means it is alright to not follow the law and just think and walk in my way. What will be better done? Either do sins again and again and say we’ll be forgiven as we are under grace, although it feels bad to do the sins again and again. So, aren’t we should have to be under the law? This is just my opinion. My ears are itching to hear from you soon. Thank You.

                       Reply ↓
                       1. doctrine Post authorAugust 31, 2022 at 1:31 pm

                          John,
                          Your response reveals you do not understand Paul. If you desire understanding, please read my article, Paul and the Law.

                          Reply ↓
                          1. Jason March 3, 2023 at 8:39 pm

                             Can you explain why after Jesus was resurrected he instructed the apostles in mathew 28: 18-20 to teach ‘All’ nations ‘Baptizing them’ and to observe all that I have commanded.. If we are under grace at this time why would he tell them to do this? Thank You!

                             Reply ↓
                             1. doctrine Post authorMarch 5, 2023 at 8:01 am

                                Jason,
                                These instructions were part of God’s covenant and prophetic program, not God’s program of the Church. Our instructions in the Church come from Christ through Paul. Our “great commission” is 2 Corinthians 5.18-21. See my article, The Great Commission.
107. Daniel J Stanton April 22, 2023 at 4:30 pm

     I just your found website and began with Jesus vs. Paul, brilliant. Out of all the words I read, I have only one disagreement. How can you cancel the everlasting gospel, and make it null and void? Everlasting is one of the names assigned to the gospel only Israel knew, everlasting does mean forever. The men at the Jerusalem council in 51 A.D. shook hands with the agreement that the two gospels would continue on, the gospel of the circumcision was committed to Peter, and the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed to Paul. Today both gospels suffer due to ignorance, but both gospels are still viable. The gospel Paul revealed is for everyone, but the everlasting gospel is still exclusive to Jew only. The problem Christianity has is that it allows small pieces of the everlasting gospel to influence the gospel Paul revealed. Both gospels are pure when kept separate, but most pulpits in America put the two gospels in a blender and pour out a perverse third gospel every week. There are more than 15 million Jews today, almost half live in Israel, many of these Jews will only know the everlasting gospel, this will qualify them to report to heaven when Jesus comes for His. The everlasting gospel will gain a large boost when the prophecy in Dan. 9:27 is confirmed, and that could happen any day now, if the some aligning with the Abraham Accords becomes the many that the Bible requires. After the rapture the gospel of grace will cease to exist, but the first of the three angels “will fly in the midst of heaven”, preaching the everlasting gospel to all the sorry souls that miss the rapture. The second angel announces that “Babylon is fallen”, and this could be a book in itself. The third angel puts a timestamp on this prophecy, and it is soon after the son of perdition reveals himself in the newly erected temple the Israelites will build immediately after the Abraham Accords are signed by the many. I have so much more, but I better just stop.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 22, 2023 at 8:10 pm

        Daniel,
        Thank you. Acts 15 reveals the gospel of the kingdom ended at the Council of Jerusalem. See my article, The Great Hinge. The everlasting gospel is who Christ is and it is everlasting. But that does not mean it is in operation today. Revelation was written primarily to Jews and concerns God’s prophetic program that involves Jews and Gentiles. His program today is His Church program which was a secret. The Church lies outside prophecy. Paul taught that when one believes his gospel, one becomes Church, neither Jew nor Gentile. As God separated the human race into two parts with Abraham, he separated it again with Paul. See 1 Corinthians 10.32. The gospel of the kingdom will return after God completes the Church (Matthew 24.14).

        Reply ↓
108. Joe May 12, 2023 at 2:31 pm

     Steve,

     Matthew 10 tells us that Jesus Christ COMMANDED the 12 to only go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. (Not Gentiles) In Matthew 15 Gentiles are indirectly called by Christ “dogs”. Where/when did the 12 ever minister to Gentiles? When was the command in Matthew 10 rescinded? Peter did go to Cornelious’s house but he sure didn’t want to and was criticized by fellow Jews after he did. If not for Paul who would have gone to the Gentiles? The 12’s gospel (The gospel of the Kingdom) was ‘who Christ was’–the Messiah. Paul’s ministry centers around the resurrection. As late as Luke 18:30+,, a week before the death, burial and resurrection, the 12 knew nothing about the upcoming crucifixion of Christ so they couldn’t have taught the resurrection. John 20:9 says explicitly they didn’t know ‘he should rise again from the dead”.(paraphrase) Obviously, things were changing and things certainly did change. Paul was chosen to introduce a new gospel, a secrete, known only to God. (Romans 16) Our new gospel is 1 Cor 15:1-4. As Christians we are no longer Jews or Gentiles but a new creation. (2 Corinthians 5) Though still somewhat confused, Peter did come around in 2 Peter 3:16. All the bible is for us but not all the bible is to us. Paul’s letters are to us.

     Reply ↓
109. NamelessOne May 15, 2023 at 3:28 pm

     Dear Author,

     Thanks for this letter and all the work and effort that went into it, and still replying to all the comments. I got half-way and had to skip to the end :)

     Here is my questions/answers if you could assist please?

     1) You seem to be very concerned with how one gets saved without the teachings of Paul. It’s like you copy paste the question to anyone who questions Paul. Why is salvation under Paul so important to you?

     2) Still your question got me thinking.. how is one saved then? And by what? Essentially if we reject Paul then we reject salvation by grace and believing the whole “I’m a retched sinner, I need a savior, Jesus is a savior, he died for my sins, I believe it, I dont deserve it, but by Grace I get it.” That means we are left only with the raw teachings of Jesus to his own people.. Israel.

     Essentially…if we reject Paul but believe Jesus, one can place yourself as a Jew by the feet of Jesus and listen to Him say how we enter the Kingfom. And on that Jesus as very clear.

     So how does Jewish people get saved? Oh wait… they don’t right… Christians condemn them to Hell because the take only Paul’s version of Salvation.

     2) Do you really think Jesus would ascend to Heaven without leaving a plan for the Gentiles with his Disciples? Or maybe even mention it once? did he not? That would be a pretty large oversight in my opinion. Was His work not complete? It’s a pretty big bargain putting your only answer to salvation for every Gentile ever born for in the success and preaching of one man, Paul.

     3) What does “saved” even mean? Going to Heaven? Seeing the Father? Being in a place where there is no pain and we sing hymns all day?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorMay 15, 2023 at 7:41 pm

        Namelessone,
        God’s problem to solve for mankind was sin and death. Adam’s sin killed the entire human race. How to fix it? Man cannot fix death. How does one pay off the penalty of death? Someone sinless must do it. Physical life is in blood. That is why animal blood sacrifices were required as substitutes. They were to teach that lesson. Jesus solved the problem of sin and death by His death and resurrection. That’s Paul’s gospel. Everything before this was instruction, pictures, etc. During that time God saved men and women on the basis of faith/obedience to what He had revealed. Gentiles were to be saved by the Jews but the prophetic plan anticipated a repentant nation. That did not occur. Therefore, God in His love saved Paul to be proxy Israel. This is why Paul said he was born prematurely. Today we have the full revelation of the meaning of Christ’s death and resurrection: Paul’s gospel. Believe it and live. Reject it and die. That is what salvation is: to be saved from sin and death. All this is a drama to resolve the angelic conflict, to show that everything outside of God is death. This cannot be learned intellectually. It must be learned experientially, existentially. When the lesson is learned there will be no possibility of sin. The Jews committed idolatry until the Babylonian captivity. That cured them. They had to learn that lesson through experience. We too. That is why a fallen and redeemed world is greater than one that never fell.

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        1. Craig May 16, 2023 at 9:38 am

           Don, your last sentence almost sounds like it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall.

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorMay 16, 2023 at 4:13 pm

              Craig,
              No, Adam and Eve had a choice. All they needed to do was obey one command. But God knew what would happen and had a plan for it.

              Reply ↓
        2. NamelessOne May 16, 2023 at 4:01 pm

           Thanks, I don’t think you answered any of my questions. Explaining the history of how nations dealt with sin does not really help. I take it you believe the creation/Adam story really happened? If so who was there to witness it? Where did that story originate from if I may ask?

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorMay 16, 2023 at 4:11 pm

              Namelessone,
              Really? Perhaps its because you did not like the answers. I answered what is salvation, why Paul’s gospel is essential, how Jews are saved, etc. Of course I believe the creation/Adam story. It’s history. How does anyone believe anything in history? How do you know George Washington was president? How do you know the earth is round? Have you ever been into space to see it? Moses received the information from God. Jesus confirmed it. What more do you want? If you can’t trust God, whom can you trust?

              Reply ↓
              1. Bahate May 22, 2023 at 3:26 am

                 I like the response. Most people always try to find a way to disbelieve the Bible’s authenticity, reliability and accuracy. Forgetting to realise that even most of what they believe to be true, be it historical, geographical, philosophical, it’s based on information made available to them.

                 Reply ↓
           2. Joe May 16, 2023 at 8:02 pm

              Namelessone,
              Many of the world’s smartest people believe that before space, time and matter there was nothing. Then, “BANG”! Everything in existence comes from nothing. Witnesses? Many of these same, supposedly, smart people question biblical events because no one can produce a photograph? Outside the Bible, other than Doctrine.org, may I suggest St. Thomas Aquinas, “The Five Ways”, as a good starting point for understanding?

              Reply ↓
110. Larry O'Hanlon May 20, 2023 at 8:28 pm

     Wow! I am amazed at how many people strongly dislike Paul’s teaching.
     If Paul were here today, I think some of these commenters would take Paul outside the city gates and horsewhip him half to death. Poor Paul, he got no respect in his day and people still hate him. Human nature never changes. At least it never changes outside of Paul’s gospel!
     Larry O’Hanlon

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2023 at 7:45 am

        Mike,
        It was a shock to me to learn this from the responses. But it makes sense. If one rejects Paul, one rejects Paul’s gospel, one does not believe Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. Objectors to Paul do not know the Lord but follow a religion opposed to Christ.

        Reply ↓
111. Lee Chin June 16, 2023 at 2:51 pm

     Hi Brother

     Great summary.

     However, Yesu aka “Jesus Christ” not only preached to the Jews, He also asked His Apostles and Disciples to preach to all Nations. Not the Jews only.

     Mark 13:10 And this Gospel must be preached to all nations.

     Matthew 24:14
     And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

     If Yesu’s workers only preached to the Jews, how was the end going to come.

     Good work though. On picking out few points of paul’s gibberish against The Messiah’s teachings.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorJune 16, 2023 at 3:17 pm

        Lee Chin,
        Christ came to fulfill God’s prophetic program. The Church is nowhere in prophecy. Had the Jews repented and accepted Jesus as the Messiah, he Twelve would have gone to the nations. They didn’t and they didn’t. The only record of any of them going to Gentiles is Peter’s visit to Cornelius (Acts 10-11). Due to the nation’s rejection, God saved Paul to become the apostle of the Gentiles. As one “untimely born,” he became proxy Israel and went Gentiles. The program of Jews going to the nations, to Gentiles remains unfulfilled. It will be fulfilled in the kingdom, after the nation repents and accepts Jesus as Messiah.

        Reply ↓
112. Craig July 3, 2023 at 8:14 am

     Don, can you expound on Matthew 16:24. What does taking up your own cross mean? Does this apply only to Israel?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorJuly 3, 2023 at 8:36 am

        Craig,
        Interpretively, it applies to the generation who undergoes the Tribulation, enduring to the end. Applicationally, it can be used for remaining faithful to Christ.

        Reply ↓
113. George August 11, 2023 at 12:17 am

     Hello brother Don, can u please tell me why in John ch 5:24 , Jesus says that the those present with him if they just believe in Him HAVE – present tense eternal life and won’t come into condemnation – isn’t this the same salvation/gospel that Paul offers ?
     Thanks in advance for your prompt answer :)

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 11, 2023 at 8:29 am

        George,
        Why would one think this? Elsewhere Jesus told His disciples that God’s forgiveness depended on their forgiving others (Matthew 6.12-15) and if one wished eternal life one must keep the commandments (Matthew 19.16-17). The gospel of the kingdom also required water baptism (Mark 1.4, 16.16; Acts 2.36-38, 22.16). Salvation by faith alone was new, part of Paul’s gospel (Ephesians 6.19). We must read the Scriptures according to context.

        Reply ↓
        1. George August 11, 2023 at 11:03 pm

           I agrée with you , but how do you interpret this verse as is , non right dividers will use this verse to show that belivers in the kingdom program had – present tense- eternal life – they will also use Paul’s verses on Abraham being justified by faith only and also use the sure mercies of David to bolster their argument that Paul’s gospel was the same as ot nt . I would like to know what you would say to them about these specific arguments to convince them that they are on the wrong track thanks again

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorAugust 12, 2023 at 8:20 am

              George,
              If one reads the context of John 5, Jesus is giving essentials truths, identifying who He is, equal to the Father, able to give live to whom He wishes. Faith has always been the essential, necessary requirement for salvation. That is His focus. As for David, David recognized that he could bring no sacrifice to God for his great sin. He depended wholly on God’s grace. The burden of proof rests on those who claim salvation has always been by faith alone and that Paul’s gospel was the same in the OT and NT. Paul’s gospel is 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. No one in the OT or gospels believed this. No one knew it until Paul proclaimed it. Paul wrote that he had to explain his gospel to the Jewish leaders at the Council of Jerusalem. Had they all thought salvation was the same, no controversy would have existed. The evidence for the newness of salvation by faith and Paul’s gospel is overwhelming. The reason it is not the majority view is because the majority do not understand Paul’s apostleship. The majority think of Paul as an appendage to the Twelve. But if you read Paul, everything he wrote is different from what anyone else wrote, e.g., James, Peter, John, Jude.

              Reply ↓
114. Michael August 22, 2023 at 9:14 pm

     this sums up everything. there is no disputing

     https://youtu.be/xk9wgJBoEd8

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     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 7, 2023 at 5:10 pm

        Michael,
        Really? Does man have not will? Does believing mean nothing? Why does the Bible tell us to believe? This man is confused. Yes, Christ is the one who does all the work. But we must accept it for salvation. God gave us volition and expects us to exercise it—for or against Him.

        Reply ↓
        1. cpb September 8, 2023 at 8:46 am

           You are either
           1. Accepted by God for something He did, or
           2. Accepted by God for something you did.
           There is no mixing of the two. Salvation in exchange for faith is no different than offering a goat. Faith is the response to understanding what He did for you. God is sovereign. He can save whomever he wants to.

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 8, 2023 at 12:56 pm

              Cpb,
              Faith is not a work. Throughout the body of Scripture, one sees both the divine will and the human will operating in the realm of salvation. Faith is obedience, doing what God says. Paul declared a person is justified by faith and by the faith. We are accepted by God through the work of Christ but one must respond to that work for salvation. Those who refuse the work of Christ are lost.

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              1. cpb September 10, 2023 at 11:02 am

                 The expected (and logical) response to God’s grace is clearly given in scripture.

                 Romans 12:1-2 ESV
                 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. [2] Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

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                 1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 10, 2023 at 2:08 pm

                    Cpb,
                    True. What does this have to do with the question of faith as a work and how one is saved?

                    Reply ↓
                    1. cpb September 11, 2023 at 6:53 am

                       Like faith, it is the _response_ to grace.

                       1. If I give faith to receive salvation, faith is a work.

                       2. If I am given salvation and believe it, then “the giving” is the work and faith is how I take hold of it.

                       We are not saved by Paul’s gospel. Paul’s gospel is the good news message _about_ what saved us – the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. It’s the same message proclaimed by the other apostles.

                       Can there be disagreement over this between Christians?

                       Reply ↓
                       1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 11, 2023 at 9:54 am

                          Cpb,
                          Christ did all the work for salvation. One is saved by faith, by accepting His work for us. Christ died for everyone. He paid for every person’s sins. But only those who accept His work on their behalf, by faith, are saved. That is what is meant by “saving faith.” Paul wrote that Abraham believed God and it (his believing) was reckoned to him for righteousness. Abraham believed what God told him to believe. Paul called this “obedience of faith.” Did you believe the gospel? If so, you “did” something, but it was not a work. Is receiving a gift a work? Does one work for a gift? Paul told the Philippian jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved. He believed and was saved. His believing saved him. Had he not believed, he would not have been saved. As to your last statement, the other apostles did not preach Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection for salvation until after Paul explained his gospel to them at the Council of Jerusalem. Please see my article, Faith vs. Works in James: Resolving the Problem.

                          Reply ↓
115. cpb September 12, 2023 at 8:23 am

     The order is important. Abraham’s faith was in response to God’s promise. God promised to bless him _before_ Abraham responded (faith). The pattern is the same for us. Per Paul in Romans, God reconciled us to himself while we were sinners. He made peace with us, not the other way around. Our response to that should be to believe it. As with Abraham, the promise precedes our faith. God cannot lie. If He said He did it, He did it.

     Our experience is that even though God declares us to be righteous due to the work of Christ, we don’t feel righteous. I am still in sinful flesh (Rom 7), so the only way that I can experience God’s righteousness is through faith. My faith doesn’t make me righteous. God did that.

     Faith is how we experience righteousness. Faith is how we “reign in life.” Faith is how we have peace with God. None of these things would be possible if we weren’t reconciled and justified by the work of Christ. We can rest because God is faithful, not because we are faithful.

     For whatever reason, God did not open the apostle’s understanding to this all at once. It took decades for the significance of the cross to be unveiled and for them to understand what Christ did. They taught each other, as we do.

     I’ll rest on this topic now. I don’t mean to challenge you on your own platform, but these points are very important because our faith can fail. God’s faith cannot.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 12, 2023 at 9:08 am

        Cpb,
        It is important to understand faith is not a work. To say it is means one does not understand salvation. God chooses believers to a position on the basis of His foreknowledge. His foreknowledge governs His electing, predestining, justifying, glorifying according to Romans 8.29-30. The Twelve learned about Paul’s gospel, Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead, for salvation from Paul. Paul wrote he explained it to them (Galatians 2.2). This is evident from Acts 15. Had they understood it, there would have been no need for a Council. Paul went up to Jerusalem by command to explain his gospel to the leaders there and stop believers from Jerusalem going to those who were saved by believing his gospel that they were not saved unless they kept the Law. Paul wrote that his gospel was a secret (Romans 16.25; Ephesians 6.19). The ascended Lord revealed this secret to him alone. Salvation by faith alone was not known or taught before Paul (exception: Abraham). See my article, The Great Hinge. I do not mind being challenged as long as challenges are based on what the Scriptures reveal.

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116. Willie October 2, 2023 at 1:37 pm

     Thanks for this good article. I have always wondered in the council of Acts 15, why was it not judged what was true for the Gentles was true for the Jews also? (No Law of Moses) I also wondered why Paul was almost killed in Acts 21-22 if the Jerusalem Church and the Gentile churches believed the same gospel. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks and God bless!

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 3, 2023 at 9:21 am

        Willie,
        Thank you. What one must recognize is that almost everything found in Paul’s letters was new theology. No one knew these things. Paul knew them because the ascended Lord revealed them to him. Paul called these truths revelations and secrets. This was why Peter wrote that some things Paul wrote were hard to understand (2 Peter 3.15-16). You might also enjoy The Great Hinge as it deals further with the Council of Jerusalem.

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117. Helen October 4, 2023 at 12:27 am

     Tamar, Rahab, and Ruth are all from unchosen people groups, and Bathsheba was married to a Hittite, yet they are key players in the Messiah’s lineage.

     Within Jesus’ earliest years, sorcerers from the East visit him, bearing gold, frankincense, and myrrh. The magi’s gifts come straight out of Isaiah 60 where the nations stream to the place heaven and earth are unified. Throughout Jesus’ ministry, his teaching attracts a multi-ethnic crowd.

     Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people. The news about Him spread throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them. Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.

     Even though Jesus’ mission was first to Israel, members of the nations were included at the onset

     Throughout Jesus’ life he was rejected by his own family ad he finds a warmer reception with the families of the nations.

     “Behold, your mother and your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to you.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling him and said, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Behold my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

     Jesus is making an earth-shattering claim: God’s family is determined by people’s response to the will of God as revealed by Jesus.

     When the Canaanite woman refuses to give up, Jesus immediately relents and gives her what she needs. By faith, non-Israelite people join his family too.

     After Jesus completes his mission to Israel and rises from the grave exalted as the new humanity, his mission now explicitly extends to all nations.

     “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that ***I commanded you****; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

     teaching what I commanded, not the new guy you’ll meet in a couple of years

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 5, 2023 at 8:57 am

        Helen,
        Jesus’ interaction with Gentiles during His earthly ministry was extremely limited. The Scriptures give only two examples of His meeting with Gentiles, the Canaanite woman, whom He first repulsed, and the Roman centurion, which, according to Luke’s account was by proxy. Jesus instructed His disciples not to go to Gentiles (Matthew 10.5). The Magi who came at His birth were likely Jews who had learned from Daniel about the Messiah. No Scriptural evidence exists for your statement that He found “a warmer reception with the families of the nations.” As for the the “All authority” statement, known as the “great commission,” the Twelve never went to Gentiles. Jesus gave them the order of ministry in Acts 1.8: Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, the rest of the world. They went to the first three, but not to Gentile lands. The only record we have of them going to Gentiles was Peter’s visit to Cornelius’ house. It took a special revelation, and when Peter returned to Jerusalem, he was criticized for having gone. This took place several years after Pentecost. Paul became the exclusive minister to Gentiles (Romans 11.13; Galatians 2.7-9). The Twelve ministered to Jews under the Mosaic Law. Paul ministered primarily to Gentiles, and taught that believers of his gospel were under grace, not law. Totally different ministries between Paul and the Twelve. This was why Peter wrote 2 Peter 3.15-16.

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        1. Helen October 6, 2023 at 3:55 am

           I agree that these were totally different ministries. My point was that Jesus DID reach out to/ mix with Gentiles. He came for the Jews first, but not only. While Paul’s message is convenient, it troubles me. My faith is not in who Paul is and what Paul says in ” his gospel”, but in what Jesus said and did as witnessed by the 12 and ountless others. Paul’s msg gives us permission to fail whereas Christ encourages us to at least try and give it my best. So many things were prophesied about or predicted beforehand, but not Paul. Some of what he writes seems right and aligned with Jesus, but so does Marcus Auirelies and Epicleties (spelling ?). Also, it seems that Peter was the one called to teach the Gentiles, but Peter being Peter chickened out. It seems that people value what Paul added more than what Jesus established. I don’t know what to think of this . I just prayer that God –‘ Yahweh— will help me rightly divide the word. Maybe that’s the reason that verse is in there…we should tightly divide Paul’s words and theology from that of Christ.

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorOctober 6, 2023 at 3:21 pm

              Helen,
              Do you have a Scriptural basis for stating Jesus reached out and mixed with Gentiles? I do not find this anywhere in the Gospels, except the two examples I noted. Can you tell me how one is saved, how one becomes a Christian? How do you think Paul received the gospel he proclaimed? This is the first time I have heard that Paul gives us “permission to fail?” How do you arrive at this conclusion? How was Peter called to teach Gentiles and how did he chicken out?

              Reply ↓
              1. Isaac October 11, 2023 at 8:41 pm

                 We were not called to this kind of theological debate, which is without life and spirit. I have purchased and read your books mr Don, and all of them are heavy, theolohical readings. But people are not being saved by presenting the gospel in a lifeless way, but on the contrary.

                 Reply ↓
                 1. doctrine Post authorOctober 12, 2023 at 3:09 pm

                    Isaac,
                    Are you saying one cannot ask another person to provide evidence for his position?

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                 2. Bahate October 13, 2023 at 8:24 am

                    This is not true. Proper understanding of scriptures and Christian doctrines is as important as getting saved.

                    It is one thing to be saved, it is another thing to live the life of a saved person. People may be saved quite alright, but the spiritual food that they are taught are cause them to continue living in spiritual bondage. As such, it is important to be saved just as it is to feed on the right spiritual food. The majority of christian leaders today are abusing the word of God for their personal gain through mixing law and grace. Thry claim to prophesy and possess gifts of healing through whi ch to enrich themselves. All this happens because aside from salvation, there is lack of knowledge on the proper interpretation of scriptures resulting in confusion in Christianity and living a cursed life.

                    There are too many false prophets today, a thing that requires that those who are saved should be properly knowledgeable.

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118. Michael Young November 2, 2023 at 11:07 am

     My very simple question is why do you almost completely ignore the Book of John when you attempt to outline the teachings of Our Lord Jesus. All of your questions about Our Lord are perfectly answered when the Good News is examined in the Synoptic Gospels and The Book of John.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2023 at 8:46 am

        Michael,
        John’s Gospel mostly concerns Jesus’ earthly ministry. What is missing in John’s Gospel? It contains no Church doctrine. John was written to Jews to reveal Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the Son of God. My focus is on the Church, the body of Christ, which began with Paul. All Church doctrine is found in Paul’s letters. The gospel which saves is found in Paul, not John. Paul tells us that we are saved by trusting in Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). John’s gospel is the gospel of the kingdom (John 3.16) in which one was to believe Jesus was the Christ. That is not the message of salvation today. Peter ended that gospel at the Council of Jerusalem (see my article, The Great Hinge).

        Reply ↓
119. Laurin Meador November 19, 2023 at 10:20 pm

     Isn’t Peter that guy who denied Jesus 3 times while he was alive? I mean, Peter isn’t exactly the “Apostle of Integrity”.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorNovember 20, 2023 at 8:56 am

        Laurin,
        Who has not sinned? The Lord Jesus Christ took all our sins, defeated sin and death, by rising from the dead. All of grace. God gives what none of us deserve.

        Reply ↓
120. Linda December 3, 2023 at 5:05 am

     I was just reading Helen’s comments and I just wanted to share with her what our risen Lord said about Paul. Acts 9:15. ‘He is a chosen vessel unto me to bear my name before the gentiles, the kings, and the children of Israel”. Jesus began a new ministry through apostle Paul, ‘the mystery of His will’, explained in Ephesians.

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121. William Sterling March 31, 2024 at 10:45 pm

     I haven’t read everything “here.” I don’t consider THAT to be necessary.
     The “bottom line” is that Paul’s Gospel is the overwhelming choice of the Reformed Church!
     Galatians 3.26-29 gives the lie to so much of what the Reformation claims, and its proponents here.
     So does Romans 6, A-Z! Did it REALLY take God 1,500 years to get Paul into 1st place?
     Romans 11 also has PAUL saying that “branches were BROKEN OFF to make ROOM for Gentiles.” Right?
     Jesus makes MANY predictions in John chs.14-17. Didn’t He know already that the Jews rejected Him?
     What about Luke 24.44-49? He ordered them to go to ALL the world. What? With an “uncertain” gospel?
     The Reformers were murderers and persecutors, just like the Catholics before them.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 2, 2024 at 3:37 pm

        William,
        Paul’s gospel was unknown before the ascended Lord revealed it to him. The gospel of the kingdom was based on Christ’s identity, not His work. Read the article, The Great Hinge. One must understand the difference between God’s covenant prophetic program and God’s Church program. Without this understanding, one cannot understand theology. God knew the Jews would not nationally accept Christ but He gave them this opportunity. He knows who will believe in Him and who will reject Him. But the died and rose for all and gives everyone a chance for forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

        Reply ↓
122. Queen Dove August 19, 2024 at 1:55 pm

     Paul, Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, L Ron Hubbard, Muhammad, David Helgaso… and the like are all followers of Paul. If Paul can teach a different gospel and say he received it from god so can these founders too.
     If Paul can his teachings are scripture (post death of Jesus) then the above founders can too.
     But I don’t believe Paul and I don’t believe in any of the other teachers above either.
     Thank you for helping me see there is a difference between the Kingdom of God and the Church.
     I knew the church was corrupt and that is why the day Jesus died he tore the veil down and said now the church is in Believers. And those who are HIS will not listen to no other voice but HIS.
     Those who are of Paul is with Paul (Tare) and those with Jesus Christ is with Jesus (Wheat).
     Jesus throughout the Gospels tells us (BELIEVERS) to obey HIS teachings and the teachings of HIS Apostles.
     Jesus prayed in John 15-17for us and the Apostles and those who receive HIS MESSAGE from them.
     Thank you for dividing the true from the false. Jesus message from Paul’s message. BELIEVERS from Christians. The Kingdom of God from the Body of Christ. The body of Jesus was whipped and nailed to the cross for me. That body is fleshly body is dead and I’ve followed Jesus and hung my old nature on the cross too. Don’t want it no more.
     I now follow and obey Jesus teachings and received the Kingdom of God and accepted the Gift Jesus sent to me Gods Holy Spirit.

     The children of Israel rejected God being over the and God gave them Saul. Now those who reject Jesus and the Lead of the Holy Spirit will be given Paul who use to be Saul.
     If was never Gods WILL for us to have anyone over us but God. Jesus connected us back to God when He died on the cross and we believe in HIS MESSAGE.
     I don’t need no Paul or anything he has to say or teach. And those who belong to him will be with him and those who belong to Christ will be with Christ.
     The churches love Paul because they are just like him. They want to rule over you. Want you to bow down and serve them.
     Ezekiel 34 has already told us all about them.
     I will wait on the Lord and allow Jesus through His Holy Spirit to lead and guide me.
     I do not belong to no worldly church. Church is inside of me.
     Be blessed!

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 19, 2024 at 8:02 pm

        Queen Dove,
        Your reply seems to indicate you do not believe Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead—that this is not the message of salvation. It that your position?

        Reply ↓
     2. Joe August 20, 2024 at 11:52 am

        Queen Dove,
        Please comment on what Peter had to say about Paul
        2 Peter 3

        15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

        16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

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123. Anders August 23, 2024 at 11:33 am

     Dear QD: Not many churches “love Paul” or his epistles. Some one has said that revival will come when the church rediscovers Paul. If that doesn’t happen, the church is finished.

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124. Brian Kelley August 24, 2024 at 9:50 am

     Anders, what I find also interesting is the way that muslims seem to fiercely attack Paul’s legitimacy more so than any other person in the Judeo-Christian scriptures. They and other false religionists/cultists such as the ‘Black Israelites’ really seem to vehemently hate Paul. This alone tells me that what the ascended Lord revealed to Paul is a direct nuclear threat to satan and his demonic stooges.

     Reply ↓
125. Anders August 28, 2024 at 4:32 am

     Actually, Brian, I don’t think that the muslims are the problem. It’s Christians who fail to recognize the unique authority of Paul who impede the spreading of the gospel of the grace of God. It is when God opens the heart to “attend to the things spoken of Paul” that the Book comes to life and you just want to share it with everyone.

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126. Brian Kelley August 29, 2024 at 12:45 pm

     Amen!

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127. Joe August 29, 2024 at 4:32 pm

     Don,

     Why is it important for us to know that Lydia was baptized? I’m out of state at my brother’s and his wife took us to a C of C service and those people are into baptisms big time. They have communion every Sunday.
     Do you think Lydia was already saved? The verse says she was ‘worshiping God’. What else do I need to know about Paul’s encounter with Lydia…I think at Philippi?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 30, 2024 at 8:44 am

        Joe,
        Lydia was saved believing Paul’s gospel. She was baptized because Paul baptized early in his ministry. Water baptism was a key component of the gospel of the kingdom. Paul baptized early in his ministry to show that those believing his gospel were saved just as those who had believed the gospel of the kingdom. Later, that changed. Paul wrote God did not send him to baptize and that he only baptized a few people. He taught that the baptism of his ministry was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He taught there was one baptism—the baptism of the Spirit. Water baptism has no place in churches. One is one.

        Reply ↓
128. Erfan September 21, 2024 at 7:54 am

     as a behavioural psychologist and also a believer, I am well aware that running circles with theology is to deceive. Paul was a malicious liar, the evidence is in the writing style. It fully lacks substance. He had *no authority, this is obvious to anyone who applies his mind and looks at the facts.
     You claim Jesus and Paul differed, then you go on to say Pauls gospel is now valid over Jesus’ words ? You are not keeping Jesus’ words then. I wonder if some other perk is making you spew lies and deceiving the people. As an example if many, The late great Isaac Newton stated that Paul was a liar, he rejected this trinity and said God is one, and not a man. Newton went over all the books in the source language, not a translation. Christ never preached anything related to a cross. This will be made manifest upon his return for those too stubborn, prideful, or foolish to recognize.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 22, 2024 at 1:37 pm

        Erfan,
        You cannot be a believer, a Christian, without accepting Paul. If Paul was a liar, the gospel he proclaimed, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4, is a lie—Jesus did not die for our sins and rise from the dead. Paul made it clear through many statements that his apostleship, his authority, was from Jesus Christ. Rejecting Paul is to reject Christ. I suggest you do more research before drawing the conclusion you have made.

        Reply ↓
129. Jeff September 24, 2024 at 6:03 am

     Hi Don,
     Interesting article you have written. I can see it has generated a mountain of comments. I have 2 questions.

     1. Romans 11:26 (NIV) says”6. and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

     “The deliverer will come FROM Zion;
     he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

     This is taken from Isaiah 59:20 (NIV) which says: “The Redeemer will come TO Zion,
     to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

     “come to” has been replaced with “come from”

     2. Romans 10:8 says: ” But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:

     Deuteronomy 30:14 says: “14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.”

     “so you may obey it.” has be redacted in Romans 10:8

     In both cases, why would Paul change / alter the Holy text?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 25, 2024 at 10:39 am

        Jeff,
        A large literature exists on how New Testament writers used Old Testament scriptures. They often (the majority of times) quoted the LXX and often not word for word. They cited passages to demonstrate an idea or concept. They would quote a passage but also have other passages in mind and “combine them” as an idea. In the case of Romans 11.26, Paul quoted from the LXX which reads, καὶ ἥξει ἕνεκεν Σιὼν ὁ ρυόμενος. See also https://studybible.info/interlinear/isaiah%2059. Cf. Psalm 14.7. This fits with the idea Paul is conveying of Israel’s future rescue when the nation repents at the Lord’s return. As for Romans 10.8, the LXX reads a bit differently than the MT, adding, καὶ ἐν ταῖς χερσί σου ποιεῖν αὐτό, “and in your hands to do it.” Paul simply left out the last part of the verse as it was not necessary for his point. See the discussion at https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/40251/why-does-paul-misquote-the-ot, particularly the last part. The following chart shows OT quotes in the NT with the LXX and MT: https://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm. In Romans 10, Paul addressed individual Jews that if they believed his gospel they would be saved. In Romans 11, he wrote about Israel’s national salvation, “all Israel.”

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130. Brian Kelley September 27, 2024 at 3:55 pm

     Don, this may tie in somewhat. Dr. Michael Heiser has stated that we should go to the 2nd Tenple literature as a primary source for New Testament study as opposed to the more unreliable church fathers. Dr. Heiser seemed almost as critical of Augustine, Origen, etc., as you are. In particular, he specially noted how linguistically illiterate the ones in the west were. Many of them knew very little Greek. And as you’ve repeatedly cited from scripture, Paul wrote how his doctrine was abandoned in the 1st century. So even the later eastern greek church fathers were basically as guilty of error as the western latin ones.

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131. Robert Luka October 16, 2024 at 2:03 pm

     Anyone who is a true adherent to the words of Yeshua, and treasures the words of our good Savior will clearly see that Paul has his own gospel. It started out on a shaky foundation in Acts 15 and his lasted 2000 years as the Gospel to the Gentiles. Paul’s Gospel is based on positionalism, even though true facts. The message of Yeshua is to believe on him with all of our heart and diligently hear and obey the words that he has given to us. The primary contradiction between Paul’s gospel and the message that Yeshua has given to us is Paul clearly advocates discarding the law entirely. When we speak of the law, we are speaking of God’s moral law and specifically the 10 Commandments. Paul uses the law of adultery to justify throwing away the entire law in Romans 7:4. The Gentile movement is heading towards the antichrist at 100 mph, and this is primarily due to Paul stand on idolatry. He considers it only a matter of conscience and that is clear in his writings. Yeshua himself had to step into that in Revelation 2 & 3 regarding eating meat offered to idols. We need to pay diligent heed to the words of the issue in the months and years ahead, as the age of the Gentiles is winding to a close. Thank you for your consideration of these comments.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 17, 2024 at 8:39 am

        Robert,
        From your comment, I take it you do not believe one is saved by believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead. You do not believe the ascended glorified Lord revealed truth to Paul. You do not believe keeping the law is through the Holy Spirit. Is this correct?

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132. Joe M October 17, 2024 at 10:04 am

     Its ignorant to see people trying to pass off an idea that Jesus somehow warned against Paul as being a false teacher. Ridiculous but understandable considering they are blind for not rightly dividing the Bible.

     I began reading the Bible in 2002 and always came to the same variations of understanding as you will find in any church. And of course, I remained spiritually dead the entire time. It was not until 2024 that I discovered right division. The Bible becomes blatantly obvious after that. It begins to open and shine from front to back. Seriously. In 2021, I was stuck in a hospital with covid for an entire month. No visitors. I read all of Romans TWICE. Yet, I still NEVER understood many verses. The overall understanding was simply not there until I learned to rightly divide. I not only feel privileged to have discovered this truth. But I feel horrified at how many people in this world have no clue! It becomes evident that the world needs MORE laborers to lead people to salvation. There is no time for anything else. The day we are saved is the day we are positioned as ministers, whether we choose to accept it or not. But we are babies needing to learn to walk first. That takes time. We need to show up for class every day. God does the rest.

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 18, 2024 at 11:48 am

        Joe,
        God bless you. Once you see it, you cannot unsee it.

        Reply ↓
133. Bob Luka October 17, 2024 at 5:29 pm

     I believe in hearing and doing exactly what Jesus has told us according to the foundation that he has established in Matthew 7:24. And I believe especially in the Law of Love that he has clearly given to us. I respect the credibility of Paul’s writings only as they support exactly what Jesus has already said. The Holy Spirit was sent to testify of the Lord Jesus and to bring to remembrance the things that he has spoken. There is no need for secret revelations, especially if they run contrary to the good and precious words that he has given unto us. We have a wonderful Savior who has given us great promises if we adhere to his words and try our best to listen and do exactly what he has told us. He says we are his friends if we do what he has commanded. Thank you.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 18, 2024 at 11:47 am

        Bob,
        I take it from your reply that you do not believe one is saved by trusting in Christ’s death and resurrection. You appear to think that all Jesus said was in His earthly ministry. What about all that He communicated as YHVH, Jehovah, in the Old Testament, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the prophets? What about all that He communicated after His resurrection and ascension to Paul? Without Paul we do not have the Church, Christianity.

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        1. Bob October 18, 2024 at 9:24 pm

           We cannot be saved by just believing in facts, even if they are true. We need to be hearers and doers of his word also, and especially the Law of Love that he has commanded in John 13-15. That is reiterated clearly also in all of John’s epistles. With regards to any de-emphasis on the earthly ministry of Jesus, we need to be careful here. The Apostle John warns in 1Jn 4:3 that every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God and this is the spirit of antichrist. That becomes a concern when you compare that to what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:16. With regards to any post- resurrection communication by Paul, we can as a guideline, use John 14-16, where Jesus clearly states that the Holy Spirit will testify of him (Jesus) and bring to remembrance the words that He has spoken. So that should be our go by, to determine the credibility of any doctrine or revelation. With regards to the foundations of Gentile Christianity, Acts 15 is completely void of any quoted words or direction from our good Savior. I would expect to see this closely scrutinized in the near future, as the age of the Gentiles comes to a close. So the point here is not to throw Paul under the bus, but to understand that in 2000 years, the Gentile movement has had crumbs and pieces only, compared to what is ahead for those who truly love Yeshua and have a great respect and love for his words that he has given to us so graciously. Amen.

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           1. doctrine Post authorOctober 19, 2024 at 9:10 am

              Bob,
              Your answer indicates you only accept the words spoken by Jesus in His earthly ministry, in the Gospels and the first chapter of Acts. This means you reject everything He spoke from Genesis through Malachi, Acts 2 through Revelation. Why do you reject Jesus’ words to the Old Testament believers and to Paul? Everything Paul wrote came directly from what the Lord told him except for a couple times Paul wrote where he said he wrote “not by command,” i.e., not by command from Christ. You must also recognize that Jesus in His earthly ministry spoke only to Jews, not to Gentiles, with a couple exceptions, the Canaanite woman and the Roman centurion, and ministered under the Mosaic Law. How do you think one is saved? Is it by faith or works or both? If by faith, what does one believe? Are you saved? If so, how do you know? How were people saved during Jesus’ earthly ministry?

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           2. Joe October 19, 2024 at 3:10 pm

              Bob,
              You spoke of John a number of times. You spoke of the words of Jesus found in John’s writings. John tells us Jesus spoke to us outside of the gospels…outside of the New Testament. Example: If you will read Isaiah chapter 6 you will notice the words spoken by Jesus in verse 40 of John 12 is a reference to words spoken by our Lord to Isaiah the prophet in chapter 6 of his OT book. John tells us in Jn 12:41 that what Isaiah saw and heard in his book (Isaiah 6) was from an OT theophany of Jesus Christ himself. “Him” in Jn 12:41 refers to the Lord in both Isaiah chapter 6 and Jn 12. Jesus speaks to us from more than the words written in red. Jesus spoke throughout the OT, in the writings of the apostles and he spoke to Paul after the cross. Who determines the percentage of verses we are to accept as doctrinal from Paul’s writing? Certainly, Peter had questions (2 Peter 3:16) but he accepted Paul’s writings. I believe picking and choosing what to accept biblically, in particular Paul, has led to confusion and to the proliferation of denominations over the centuries.

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     2. Donc October 19, 2024 at 2:17 am

        Bob, how do you exactly interpret Jesus’s instructions to us in John 13:20?

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134. Bob October 20, 2024 at 7:50 pm

     As we know, many old testament scriptures pointed towards the Lord Jesus, to his earthly ministry and soon coming millennial kingdom here on this earth. Starting with Genesis 3:15, then the entire symbolism of the Passover lamb. In Deuteronomy 18:15 Moses mentioned about a prophet that the Lord would raise up, and unto him you shall hear. This is reiterated in Hebrews chapter 1, verses 1 & 2, where it says clearly that in the last days, God has spoken to us by Son. Jesus was clear also that we need to hear and obey his words to be saved. Paul’s gospel to the Gentiles, on the other hand, indicates that we are saved by believing in obvious facts, specifically the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. With Paul’s nearly complete discard of the Law, that leaves really no actions for us, if we want to be a doer of the word. Even James differs with Paul on that subject. How can we say that Paul heard from the Lord Jesus when he is in a complete contradiction with what Jesus says about the law in Matthew chapter 5 verses 17 & 18? So you are correct that true Jews will hear and obey the words of the Lord Jesus, including all of the gospel of Matthew. So again, we don’t need to throw out Paul’s gospel, but it should be considered as FYI only, i.e. gospel to the Gentiles. To restate again, great care must be taken going forward, however, due to Paul’s lax stand on idolatry. The scriptures are clear that this age will end up under the antichrist, i.e,. they worshiped the beast and his image.

     Since you mentioned the Apostle John, here we have a start contrast, since John is a believing Jew. In 1 John 1:1-3, he appears extremely careful to quote the Lord Jesus very accurately, and make a clear point that what he heard and saw was exactly from the Lord Jesus. In other words, it was not by revelation. It was direct communication from the words that Jesus had spoken. From my understanding, his epistles quoted the Lord Jesus directly as spoken in John’s gospel. And this is an especially true of the Law of Love. For example, in 1 John 2:7, he makes a clear point that he was not writing any new commandment, but an old commandment they had heard from the beginning (of the ministry of the Lord Jesus). Since you mentioned John 13:20, it appears in this verse that he is granting authority to whoever he designates and sends. As the example given to us in John’s epistles, whoever he would truly send would speak in complete parallelism and harmony to what the Lord Jesus has already said. Thanks. Bob

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 21, 2024 at 9:07 am

        Bob,
        You wrote about “Paul’s nearly complete discard of the Law.” What evidence do you have for this? What law do you mean? Do you mean the moral law, the ceremonial law, i.e., animal sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, etc., or the civil law? You may want to read the article, Paul and the Law, which discusses Paul’s view of the Mosaic Law.

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        1. Bob October 22, 2024 at 8:57 am

           I have quite a bit of research on what you have mentioned, specifically what Law(s) Paul is addressing. Can I please respond via email? You’re welcome to post it back on this website later, but my laptop has it blocked for some reason forcing me to use the iPhone, which is very time-consuming. If that works, please let me know an email address that I can respond to. Thanks. Bob.

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        2. Anders October 23, 2024 at 2:19 pm

           I don’t know if Bob will read your article, Paul and the Law, but it would surely help him if he did. “Paul’s Reprise of the Decalogue” near the end of the article, and the C. S. Lewis quote in footnote #1 are especially helpful.

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     2. Joe October 21, 2024 at 5:22 pm

        Bob,

        You said, “With Paul’s nearly complete discard of the Law, that leaves really no actions for us, if we want to be a doer of the word.” Isn’t that the point of Grace? Members of the Body of Christ are led by the Holy Spirit. Before the indwelling of the HS how were believers to know what to do? Answer: It was written out for them or explained to them by priests and rabies. It was called ‘the law’. Today we’re led to be ‘doers’ by the HS. During this Dispensation of Grace there are few written ‘actions’ for us to follow. At least this is how I understand it.

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        1. RBL November 12, 2024 at 10:31 pm

           Hello,
           If we want to be a sincere follower of Yeshua, building upon His foundation, we need to be a hearer and doer of the word, according to Matthew 7:24. This subject is a good example of the dispensation of grace or the “do nothing” covenant, that we have been under for 2000 years, which minimizes the words of Yeshua. The actions that He requires is to be under the Law of Love continually, and that should be directed towards everybody. We need to have a compassionate heart and walk in true Holiness, according to John’s epistles. That differs from the liberal movement, which has a contorted viewpoint of what true love really should be. It is not just a good idea. It is what Yeshua has commanded and that makes the difference. I hope this helps. Thank you. Bob

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           1. doctrine Post authorNovember 13, 2024 at 9:40 am

              RBL,
              Are the words of the words of Jesus in His earthly ministry different from His words to Paul? Are they different from His words to the prophets? What is the Church? How were people saved during the Lord’s earthly ministry?

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              1. Robert Luka November 26, 2024 at 5:14 am

                 Those are some very good questions. The best answer that I can provide is to refer to John’s epistles, where he very accurately answers these questions. First, to be saved during the Lord’s earthly ministry and now there is no difference. To quote 1John 1:9: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Before the Lord’s earthly ministry, the O.T. prophets still pointed to our good Savior. To quote Isaiah 53:5: “He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.” Once we are saved and our sins are forgiven, we have very accurate and specific instructions that Yeshua provides, again as John carefully quotes our good Savior, and recallis his good instructions to hear and obey what He says if we want to remain on that solid foundation that He has provided. See Matthew 7:24 also. See John 14:15, 14:21, 14:23, 15:7, 15:10, 15:12-14, and 15:17, etc. All of these scriptures point to the Law of Love that Yeshua has given to us. Back to John’s epistles, this foundation is reiterated clearly in 1John 2:7-10 and is the central focus of his entire epistles. To quote 1John 2:7-10: “Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment that ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning…Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you, because the darkness is past and the true light now shineth… He that hateth his brother is in darkness even until now…He that loveth his brother abideth in the light and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.” Unfortunately Paul never quotes of good Savior, with one possible exception in 1Cor 11:23-26. We need to be careful here, as the foundations of the Gentile movement, as recorded in Acts 15, have no direct quotations from our Lord either. We also need to remember the words of our Savior in John 15:26, speaking of the Holy Spirit: “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” So if someone speaks by purported revelation, unless it points to Yeshua and/or the words of Yeshua, it may lack credibility. With regards to your questions about the church, Yeshua mentions the church only twice, I believe in Matthew 16 & 18. His focus was on the soon coming Kingdom here on this earth. Thank you. RBL

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                 1. doctrine Post authorNovember 26, 2024 at 8:31 am

                    Robert,
                    You wrote, “to be saved during the Lord’s earthly ministry and now there is no difference.” Are you saying Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Jeremiah, Peter, etc. were saved by believing Christ died for them and rose from the dead? If so, how do you explain Luke 18.31-34? If so, why did Peter not proclaim this on the day of Pentecost? What did he tell the people when they asked him how to have their sins forgiven? Did he tell them Christ died for their sins and rose for their justification?

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                 2. doctrine Post authorNovember 26, 2024 at 4:41 pm

                    Robert,
                    Two more points. You wrote Paul did not quote from the Lord. If you mean Jesus in His earthly ministry, you are correct. But who spoke to Moses and the prophets? Did Paul quote Moses and the prophets? From whom did Paul receive his teaching? Was it not from the ascended Lord? Was not everything Paul wrote what he received from the ascended Lord? As for the “church” in Matthew 16 and 18, what “church” was this? Was it the Church, the body of Christ? What is the meaning of “church,” ἐκκλησία? Does ἐκκλησία always mean the body of Christ?

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                    1. RBL November 29, 2024 at 10:49 pm

                       Regarding God’s message to mankind, before, during and after our Lord’s ministry, I made an incorrect statement to say there is no difference. This is extremely important to note Hebrews 1:1-2 in this case: “God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, who he hast appointed heir of all things, by whom he also made the worlds.” This is reinforced also in the Mount of Transfiguration experience recorded in Matthew 17:5: …”This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him.”

                       To note, this is while Moses and Elijah were present by divine placement, and God was clearly emphasizing the priority here of whom we need to listen to in our day and age. That was a very important question that you raised. So the words of Moses and the prophets are important, but in these last days God is telling us exactly who we need to focus our attention on and listen to.

                       Regarding Paul, it is obvious that he has minimized or almost completely ignored the words of our Lord that were spoken during his eartly ministry. Compare that to John’s epistles where the attention and emphasis is carefully focused on the words of our Savior that he heard personally, as mentioned in 1John 1:1-3.

                       Regarding any words or teachings from the ascended Lord, two things come to mind to determine the credibility. If you look at John 14:26 in reference to the Holy Ghost, Jesus said: “He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” So a true message from the ascended Lord via the Holy Ghost would reinforce what He had already said, (during his earthly ministry).

                       Also, in the Book of Revelation per Revelation 1:11, Jesus said: “What thou seest, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia.” So from this and similar passages, Jesus was instructing John to make this message public. (It was not a private revelation).

                       I am not sure how to answer your question about the church, since most expositors say the Lord’s emphasis as recorded in the scriptures was more on his soon coming Kingdom upon this earth. He mentioned very little about the church. I would have to be consistent with the emphasis of our good Savior on this subject. My apologies, but not sure how else to respond. Thanks. Bob

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                       1. doctrine Post authorNovember 30, 2024 at 9:10 am

                          RBL,
                          You are correct that Paul minimized the Lord’s words spoken during His earthly ministry. Why would that be? You answered this when you quoted Hebrews 1.1-2. Paul wrote Hebrews and to whom was it addressed? It was written to Jews. To whom did the Lord minister during His earthly ministry? To Jews. Everything from the prophets, from Jesus in His earthly ministry, was to Jews. When God established the Abrahamic covenant, He declared all divine Gentile blessing would come through Jews–His covenant people. This is why Jesus did not address Gentiles in His earthly ministry except on rare occasions–the Canaanite woman, Roman centurion. The Twelve did not address Gentiles, neither before or after Jesus’ death and resurrection. Who addressed Gentiles? Paul. Who revealed the Church, the body of Christ? Paul. Not a single word of Church doctrine is found in the prophets, in Jesus’ earthly ministry, in the ministry of Peter, James, John, Jude, or any of the Twelve. All Church doctrine is from Paul. This is the reason Paul did not quote Jesus in His earthly ministry. Rather, Paul quoted Jesus in His heavenly ministry. Everything Paul wrote he received from the lips of the ascended Lord. See Romans 15.8; 2 Corinthians 5.16.

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     3. Abubakar Muhammad October 29, 2024 at 10:19 am

        please contact me on my email muhammadsardiq2@gmail.com

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135. RBL December 5, 2024 at 1:16 am

     Since you mentioned 2 Corinthians 5:16, please compare that to 1 Jn 4:3, where the Apostle John warns that any spirit that confesses not that Jesus is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of antichrist. In 2 Corinthians 5:16, Paul is making a clear fulfillment of 1 Jn 4:3, to disregard any knowledge of Jesus in the flesh, (minimizing His words), going forward. Don’t know how else to interpret this. We need to be aware also, and please correct me if I am wrong, but I am not seeing anywhere during the ministry of our Savior here on earth, where he limited to whom he was addressing his message to. However, he was well aware in numerous instances that not all persons would hear his words. To quote John 10:4, as one example: “…and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice, and a stranger will they not follow.” I would agree that Jesus was not high on the Gentiles, but that is not his fault, and his message and words are clearly for all of us. “Today, if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts,” to quote the precious words of Hebrews 3 & 4. His message is to all of us, to hear and treasure in our hearts. Thanks. RBL

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     1. doctrine Post authorDecember 5, 2024 at 10:26 am

        RBL,
        Paul constantly references Jesus salvation work, dying for our sins, shedding His blood, redeeming us, etc. Paul knew all about Jesus’ earthly ministry. He did not reference it because Jesus’ ministry was to Jews, to fulfill God’s covenant promises. Jesus made direct contact with only two Gentiles in His earthly ministry, the Canaanite woman and the Roman centurion, which Luke wrote was by proxy. Jesus had no ministry to Gentiles. See what He told the Twelve (Matthew 10.5-6). See what He told the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15.24). Sheep always, without exception, refer to Jews, not to Gentiles. I do not know how anyone gets the idea that Jesus ministered to anyone but Jews during his earthly ministry. Everything that concerns the Church, the body of Christ, is found in Paul’s letters. No exceptions. Everything Paul wrote, He received from the ascended Lord Jesus Christ. John, in 1 John 4.3 wrote to Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom, not members of the Church, not those who had come to faith by believing Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead. Hebrews was written to Jews, not to members of the Church. Everything in Hebrews is Jewish and concerns God’s prophetic program with His covenant people. One cannot have any understanding of Church theology apart from Paul. Zero.

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        1. Carla Crews December 6, 2024 at 4:26 am

           Don, your answer to RBL is so spot on: He cannot see it! 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
           3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

           4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

           Thanks for your patience with RBL.
           We have family members who fall into the same category: They just cannot let go of the indoctrinated Denominationally trained view that is so pervasive in what is called “Christianity “.
           Sometimes I have to wonder if God has arranged His Word in such a way as to sort out for Himself those who will humble themselves and get busy in equipping themselves for the work of the ministry. 2 Timothy 2 15.
           We pray for God to enlighten their minds.
           Thanks for your dedication to help correct what has been distorted for so long.

           2 Tim 2:24-26
           24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

           25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

           26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

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136. RBL December 8, 2024 at 12:36 pm

     All,
     Thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to leave a remaining comment that may not seem pertinent at this time, but it will definitely be important at the end of this age. Paul’s lax stand on idolatry is very clear, and Jesus addresses and corrects this in Revelation 2:14 & 2.17. Thanks. RBL

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     1. doctrine Post authorDecember 9, 2024 at 9:15 am

        RBL,
        These Scriptures show Paul’s “lax stand on idolatry”: 1 Corinthians 5.11, 6.9, 8.4, 10.7, 14; 2 Corinthians 6.16; Galatians 5.20; Ephesians 5.5; Colossians 3.5 1 Thessalonians 1.9. If you should come to know the Lord through Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4), you will realize the foolishness of your statements and understand that everything Paul wrote came from the ascended, glorified, Lord Jesus Christ.

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        1. Carla Crews December 10, 2024 at 3:20 am

           Don,
           In my early studies of Pauline truth I ran across a 16 page pdf available at Berean Bible Society titled “The Devil and the Mystery”. By Dr. H. A. Ironside.
           At first reading it was a little hard to grasp , but after multiple readings “The Light” became brighter.
           It has been a tremendous help to me in my own personal understanding of rightly dividing the “dispensational delimea”

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           1. doctrine Post authorDecember 10, 2024 at 9:55 am

              Carla,
              What Ironside wrote in the document you cited was good. Later, however, he rejected all this in his booklet Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth. This is well-documented in Cornelius Stam’s book The Controversy aka Holding Fast the Faithful Word.

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