1,094 thoughts on “Jesus vs. Paul”

1. scott leonard November 13, 2012 at 7:51 am

   Thanks for this article. I have some questions as I learn:

   If this is true–that there is a difference in the salvation of their audiences–are you saying none of the saved among the audiences of Peter and James were born again? Obviously that is a problem, since Peter says twice in ch 1 that they were recipients of the new birth.

   Also, 1Peter2:10 he says, “for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God….” Sounds like he was talking to Gentiles, like Paul in Eph 2:12.

   And does Eph 3:6 conflict with what you’re saying? (…the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”?

   Also, didn’t Jesus give the same Great Commission to ALL the disciples in Mt 28: “…make disciples of all the nations….teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you…” ??

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   1. doctrine Post authorNovember 13, 2012 at 12:35 pm

      Scott,

      Thanks for your questions. I’ll answer them in order.
      1. Both the audiences of Peter and Paul were saved. What changed was the content of the gospel. How was Peter saved? Read Mt. 16. Martha–see John 11. We are saved not by believing Christ is the Messiah, the Son of God. We are saved by believing Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (Paul’s gospel).
      2. Peter wrote to Jewish believers. See 1 Pet. 1.1 cf. James 1.1. He quoted from Exodus 19.6. Moses spoke these prophetic words to Jews.
      3. Paul revealed that under his gospel no distinction exists between Jew and Gentile. Both are one in Christ. Paul was the only one who wrote about the body of Christ. Paul revealed this was a mystery, i.e., a secret. The Twelve knew nothing of it until they learned about it from Paul. The risen Christ revealed this to Paul.
      4. Jesus gave the Great Commission to Jewish believers not Gentiles. Paul revealed our commission in 2 Cor. 5.16-21. See my article The Great Commission.

      The great formal change in salvation and the ministries of Peter and Paul came in Acts 15. Acts 15.11 is The Great Hinge (article I’m writing now). Before this, people were saved under both Peter and Paul’s gospels. After Acts 15.11 Peter declared that only Paul’s gospel was valid. This is why Paul could write such a strong statement in Gal. 1.6-9. Before Acts 15 (Peter’s statement) Paul could not have written this.

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      1. John Higgins July 22, 2016 at 3:43 pm

         Doctrine:

         I think it is dangerous to entertain a new message of salvation (grace by faith [alone]), emanating from a man who claimed to have seen a bright light, heard a voice claiming to be the risen Christ and then claimed to have received secret revelations from this entity. Sounds like the story of Joseph Smith, Jr. to me.

         It is likewise reckless to believe the message of an unknown man who was never foretold by Almighty YHWH, who was not recruited by Christ and who was unknown to the Twelve. All you have is this man’s word and the words of his disciple, Luke, not to mention other interpolations and spurious works promoting Pauline doctrine during the first millennium A.D.

         Take into consideration that this man, Saul (Hebrew)/Paul (Greek) did not speak of the life of Christ nor did he quote our Lord or promote His message. Saul delivered his own gospel, built his own foundation and asked the crowds to emulate him…not Christ. Big red flag!!!

         Anyone who follows Saul/Paul is asking for trouble. Just because some of his letters were canonized, does not mean they are God-breathed or inspired by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, just because some of his letters are encapsulated in a volume called the “Holy Bible” does not mean his letters are “holy”. It just means that various men during the first millennium (A.D.), enjoyed Paul’s message of salvation by sloth or freebie through faith. Either way…it is not a message promoted by Almighty YHWH, Yeshua or James.

         In closing, Christ did not tell the Twelve to look for a new super-apostle who was going to take things into a whole new direction. On the contrary: He gave them a stern warning that ravenous wolves, in sheep’s clothing, would come in His name and try to deceive the very elect. No one fits that definition better than Saul/Paul.

         Be well – John

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         1. doctrine Post authorJuly 22, 2016 at 4:17 pm

            John,
            Apart from Paul, no gospel of grace exists (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Paul said Christ would judge the world by his gospel (Romans 2.16). Peter stated Paul’s writings were Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16). To reject Paul is like a Jew rejecting Moses. Paul received his gospel directly from the ascended, glorified Christ (Galatians 1.11-12), just as Moses received the Law at Sinai. Moses’ authority was questioned by Aaron and Miriam (Numbers 12). God gave Miriam leprosy for her arrogance. So, it can be dangerous to question the one whom God has chosen (Romans 15.4; 1 Corinthians 10.11). Anyone who questions Paul’s authority in Christian matters does not understand the Scriptures and has rejected God.

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            1. John Higgins July 23, 2016 at 1:47 pm

               Doctrine:

               It is true that the gospel of grace does not exist anywhere in Scripture, but only comes out of the mouth of Paul…so red flags should be waving and warning bells chiming. Please keep in mind that our Heavenly Father said He never changes and in the Prophets we are told that He judges people by their conduct and behavior. Christ backs this up emphatically and so do the Twelve. Once again, the wilderness wanderer (Saul) is way out on a limb…all by himself.

               In addition, there is no way Peter wrote the letters that are attributed to him. They are almost purely Pauline in nature, but Peter’s name was attributed to them (at some point) to give them credence. Please read the shameful Pauline plug (interpolation) found in 2 Peter 3:15-16, which has no business being there and it is not something Paul would have said. Almost all scholars agree on this point.

               As far as Saul receiving secret revelations from the risen Christ, while the Twelve were left out in the cold…does that actually make sense to you? Do you actually think this is how Christ would treat the Twelve – withholding knowledge from them and making them look foolish? Why would Christ give the Twelve the Holy Spirit by laying His hands on them and taking the time to mentor them for 3 years, yet the wilderness wanderer gets another free pass, has no formal training, did not receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of Christ’s hands, yet he arrogantly claimed to have spiritual superiority and a special mandate from God. Again, our Heavenly Father did not foretell of this man or of his ministry, Christ did not recruit this man or choose to mentor him, while the Twelve did not know him. We are told to test the spirits and to examine the fruit, and when we do, Saul is found wanting.

               Moreover, Christ warned the Twelve about those who would come claiming to see the Christ here and there and told them not to believe any of it, so why do you? Truly, you only have Paul’s word for it, along with his buddy, Luke. They are the one’s who reported that the Apostles said this and did that in the Book of Acts, which would have been refuted vigorously, if “Acts” were written during the Apostolic Age. After the Twelve and their disciples had passed on, spurious claims are difficult to refute. I hope you understand that.

               Furthermore, I reject the notion that to reject Paul is like a Jew rejecting Moses. The coming of Moses was foretold and great multitudes accepted his authority in YHWH, because they saw the miracles that were done through him. Unlike Saul/Paul, who was never foretold, comes walking out of the wilderness under his own power and under his own authority, with his own gospel, with no witness other than his own word.

               This is not how God rolls! The Almighty is not sloppy or reckless in His workmanship. The bottom line: There is no precedent for Paul and there is no indication that our Heavenly Father called for a Gentile Messiah or intended for a new religion to be born…with His precious Son’s name affixed to it.

               If YHWH doesn’t send it…if His Son doesn’t choose it…if the Twelve don’t know it…and if it proclaims a different message – THROW IT OUT!!!

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               1. doctrine Post authorJuly 23, 2016 at 6:33 pm

                  John,
                  Red flags should be waving and warning bells chiming for anyone who rejects God’s chosen man. To reject Paul means not only that one must reject Christ but reject James, Luke, Mark, Silas, Barnabas, Luke, Peter, etc. They all accepted Paul. Peter declared Paul’s writings to be Scripture. Your answer to this is to remove Peter and claim his letters were not written by Peter. It is evident you have not read these letters for no one who has read them would say they were Pauline. The very first verse of 1 Peter states it was written to Jews. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11.13). The language “royal priesthood” is Jewish language. Paul never used such language. The 12 were apostles of Israel according to Matthew 19.28. The Lord told them not to go to Gentiles (Matthew 10.5-6). And they did not. Peter addressed Jews alone at Pentecost. So God kept the Church and all the doctrines He revealed to Paul hidden from the 12. If you are right, you have to get rid of, or as you state, “THROW IT OUT!!!”, at a minimum, the gospels of Mark and Luke, Acts, Peter’s letters, James’ letter, and Paul’s letters, of course. Not much left for your religion.

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                  1. Bobbi July 26, 2016 at 4:30 pm

                     To John: Beloved brother, Jesus did tell the Apostles in John 16:12-14 ” I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall be speak; and he will shew you things to come.” Then in Acts 13:2-4 “As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Seperate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereupon I have called them.” So we see they were commissioned by the Holy Ghost. Keep reading! I pray the Lord will show you .

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                     1. Neil-Lowell Keahi July 6, 2017 at 2:24 am

                        Amen!!!! These can attack Paul all they want, but went the appointed time comes we’ll see.

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               2. Barry Clevenger August 10, 2016 at 10:28 pm

                  John, for you to arrogantly imply that God Almighty, the Creator and King of the universe and Living Word would let the fallen human mind put words in His Written Word to deflect from the Saving Grace of Jesus the Christ is borderline blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You, sir need to fall on your knees and realize that the ways of God are Far and away from YOUR puny understandings.

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               3. Greg Robbins October 11, 2016 at 11:45 pm

                  I have to say that I agree with this man. Paul seems to be another Mohammed. He is an anti-Christ as well. Mr. Doctrine, I don’t agree with you at all. I believe you to be spiritually blind, and deceived. Woe to those whom you deceive with your false teaching.

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                  1. doctrine Post authorOctober 12, 2016 at 12:52 pm

                     Greg,
                     Paul wrote: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them or we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake (2 Corinthians 4.3-5). Once you become a Christian you will have no problem with Paul. Before then, you are blinded by Satan.

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                     1. Michael DeWitt March 11, 2017 at 4:39 pm

                        The Holy Spirit Revealed the truth of Pauls Gospel to me, How do I know? Because it happened before i even read Paul’s Gospel. I never read past the 1st 4 books of the NT and spent years trying to reconcile what the Lord had revealed to me and what i had read and couldn’t. I became Lost and desperate and when i finally decided to venture beyond my own understanding of the 4 books and Read Paul’s Gospels something incredible happened. The Holy Spirit bore witness to the words of Paul. It was as if though i was reading them for the 1st time i already knew them, it was one of the most spiritual experiences i have ever had in my life. God was Confirming to me everything he had shown me throughout my life through the words of Paul. There is no way Paul’s words are untrue and meant to mislead. Because just as Jesus revealed them to Paul, he also revealed them to me without any knowledge of them to begin with.

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                        1. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2017 at 5:10 pm

                           Michael,
                           Great testimony! God will reveal Himself to all who desire to know Him.

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                           1. Donna May 21, 2017 at 5:24 pm

                              Yes He will. I cried out to God wanted to know His truth for nan. Not what a preacher says, not what a TV evangel says and the Lord open my understanding to Paul’s message. It was so clear, the missing puzzle. It really set me free from false teachings and confusion. Apostle Paul is the apostle of the gentiles. The first to speak of us being one in Christ. The body of Christ the church.plus many more wonderful truths that we have of our loving, forgiving , Father. The grace of God without works added. Our Saviour ….until you know and understand the complete work of the cross …. God’s Grace. Amazing Grace…..yes it is!
                           2. doctrine Post authorMay 21, 2017 at 6:02 pm

                              Amen!
               4. Steve August 2, 2019 at 10:29 pm

                  Was it not Paul that was bring offering or sending offerings to the Little Flock? Was it not Paul that was chained in Jail? Was it not Paul that helped the Little Flock because they sold everything they owned thinking the Kingdom was right around the corner? Was it not Paul that was tar and feathered, thrown of cliffs, drown, and forgave. Was it not Paul that debated the best philosophers of the time about the unknown God? Was it not Paul that witnessed to Kings? Was it not Paul that knew the OT backwards and forwards? Was it not Paul that would have been rich already, as a Pharisee, from the very words of your kingdom followers? Was it not Paul himself who’s sin went before him – as a self admitted stoner of the your Kingdom followers? Was it not Paul that taught us the beauty of Charity – oh my goodness – thank you dear Lord for the Apostle Paul.

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            2. Danny Fortune June 28, 2019 at 9:17 am

               By drawing parallels between Moses and Paul, you’re attributing authority that is SOLELY reserved for THE Prophet to come (Deu. 18:18+), Jesus to Paul.

               By claiming Paul is on spiritual par with Moses, you denigrate THE Prophet (Jesus) who we MUST hear and obey.

               Did Paul consider his words/teachings on par with Moses? Refer to Acts 17… if he considered the Bereans of more noble mind than the thessalonians, because they “searched the Scriptures (no new testament) daily” to see if what he was teaching was in line with the Torah (Moses) and the Prophets, how could he be on par with Moses?

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               1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2019 at 10:08 am

                  Danny,
                  What you seemingly do not understand is that Paul declared that everything he wrote, he wrote by revelation, that is, he received it directly from the risen Christ. So Paul got his information from the same source as Moses, God Almighty. Furthermore, all Scripture is God-breathed. Everything written in the Bible is equal for it all comes from the same source. The human authors merely conveyed God’s Word.

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         2. Carl Ballinger July 22, 2016 at 11:33 pm

            There is no such thing as being a Christian and rejecting Paul.

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            1. John Higgins July 23, 2016 at 12:59 pm

               I believe you, Carl, and I think you are right: To be a “Christian”…one has to follow Paul…not Christ, because there is no reconciliation between the two. Either one follows our Heavenly Father, His beloved Son and the “Pillars” (the Twelve) or they run after Paul’s unrestricted free gift, which is contrary to all known Scripture.

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               1. Bobbi July 26, 2016 at 4:09 pm

                  2Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

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                  1. ledger October 29, 2016 at 2:41 am

                     The “All scripture is given by inspiration of God,” this verse is only referring to the Torah (Old Testament) because the New Testament had not been canonized yet, if I’m not mistaken.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 29, 2016 at 8:56 pm

                        Ledger,
                        Paul wrote he completed the Word of God (Colossians 1.25) and Peter wrote Paul’s writings were Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16).

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         3. John December 4, 2017 at 2:22 pm

            That’s a perfect synopsis of the enormous problems posed by Paul. As someone said, we have to choose between the two very different gospels of Jesus or Paul, whom I believe is a false prophet.

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            1. doctrine Post authorDecember 4, 2017 at 2:34 pm

               John,
               Such a testimony reveals you are without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. Apart from believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) there is no salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ will judge the world according to Paul’s gospel (Romans 2.16). My strong recommendation is that you trust Christ and not rely on your works.

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               1. Gilbert June 28, 2019 at 3:47 am

                  To prove Paul’s deceitful writings (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) with another of Paul’s deceitful writings (Romans 2.16) is called circular thinking.
                  If you value truth, READ this article..
                  judaismvschristianity.com/20%20Facts%20That%20Prove.pdf
                  Deuteronomy19:15 , 2-Corinthians-13:1 .
                  “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established”.
                  20-witnesses have been provided in the PDF article..
                  If you can refute 17 of them, you still have 3 witnesses.
                  judaismvschristianity.com/20%20Facts%20That%20Prove.pdf

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                  1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2019 at 7:09 am

                     Gilbert,
                     Paul is not needed to prove Paul. The writings of Peter and Luke proved Paul. Two witnesses. Your argument fails. The arguments in the article you cited are as deceitful as the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day, those who crucified Him. Those who write these things are enemies of Christ and are on the path of everlasting shame and condemnation, just as Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees. Your only hope is to believe Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again, Paul’s gospel.

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                     1. Gilbert June 28, 2019 at 12:56 pm

                        “John Higgins” above, described the position accurately.
                        As much as you believe we are deceived, we believe you are deceived.
                        One difference is that we have been on both sides of the debate and have spent many hours to figure out who is actually deceived.
                        We changed our position after years of research, and having believed the lies of Paul for many years.
                        – –
                        It is good that you understand that there are two separate Gospels.
                        Who saves, Jesus or Paul ?
                        – –
                        Luke’s writings are some of the most enlightening which actually show Paul’s deceptions, by showing the conflicts. Most people just do not realize this.
                        – –
                        2-Peter 3:16 saying Paul’s writings (the interpretation should be writings according to the Greek) wrest people unto their own destruction is more of a condemnation. Besides that, many researchers believe that was inserted many years later, and is not part of the original writing.
                        – –

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                        1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2019 at 1:11 pm

                           Gilbert,
                           Your views can be likened to the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day. They believed He was an imposter. This is what you believe about Paul. To believe Paul is a deceiver requires one to deny every New Testament book except Matthew and Jude, for all the other writers testified that Paul was God’s man. And if Paul was such a great deceiver, why no warnings about Him. The demon said to the Jewish exorcists: Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you? It would say the same to you. Paul described your condition: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them (2 Corinthians 4.3-4). You can’t see if you reject God’s light.

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                        2. Bobbi June 28, 2019 at 2:24 pm

                           Gilbert,
                           Your comments on Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles, who was sent by God and Christ Jesus himself are sad. One can be “spoiled” today. We are not at war with flesh and blood but in the spiritual realm. Don’t let any person, spirit, or writing deceive you TO NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE! All the scriptures are God’s testimony. The preaching of the cross comes only through Paul’s epistles. It is only in Christ one can be saved by believing the gospel. Trust God’s word IN FULL. For he magnified his word above his name!
                           Psalm 138:2 KJV — I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
                           Psalm 18:30 KJV — As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
                           Proverbs 30:5 KJV — Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
                           It is not wise friend to fight against the scriptures. I pray the Lord will be gracious to you, and help you see the truth and that the light of the gospel of our salvation might shine upon you.

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                           1. Gilbert June 28, 2019 at 6:50 pm

                              This article uses Bible verses to refute Paul.
                              Deuteronomy19:15 ,
                              “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established”.
                              20-witnesses have been provided in the PDF article..
                              If you can refute 17 of them, you still have 3 witnesses.
                              Use Bible verses to prove your point.
                              judaismvschristianity.com/20%20Facts%20That%20Prove.pdf
                              I have NOT seen any Biblical response to this yet.
                              – –
                           2. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2019 at 7:15 pm

                              Gilbert,
                              If you read my response, I gave you witnesses: Peter and Luke. Those witnesses nullify all the so-called witnesses you offer. The risen Jesus Christ commissioned Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles. If you won’t accept the Scriptures then there’s little one can say. You are deceived just as the Jews of Jesus’ day were deceived. They crucified the Messiah. You reject Christ even as they.
                        3. cpb June 29, 2019 at 12:59 pm

                           “One difference is that we have been on both sides of the debate and have spent many hours to figure out who is actually deceived.”

                           And there in lies the problem. God’s truth is not “figured out.” It is revealed by His Spirit to those that will humble themselves and seek it.

                           The Pharisees thought they had it figured out too. Ironically, like yourself, they were bent on destroying the only truth that could save them.

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                           1. Bobbi June 29, 2019 at 5:12 pm

                              1Cor. 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
                              8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
                              9 ¶But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
                              10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
                              11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
                              12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
                              13 ¶Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
                              14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
      2. John Sarris August 30, 2016 at 4:00 pm

         Thank you for this website and the articles. I am enrolled in a supposedly, Precepts class on Galatians. However, it seems like the instructors wrote the lesson materials and relied heavily on “First Fruits of Zion” materials to, shall we say, reinterpret Paul’s teachings by bring them into line with the Apostles and OT Kingdom teachings. FFOZ even has a commentary on Galatians.
         It disturbes me to see all the damage FFOZ is doing to unsuspecting Christians.

         Thank you for your articles – right on topic.

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         1. doctrine Post authorAugust 30, 2016 at 6:29 pm

            John,
            Thank you. I know nothing of FFoZ. For a quick overview of Galatians, see my article, Paul and the Law.

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   2. Marty Nichols January 30, 2017 at 8:25 am

      It is notable that the first two responses to the piece by Doctrine both contain statements of doubt that all of our Bible is the Word of God. They both question the Canon of scripture God has preserved for us. Red flags? Indeed those are!

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   3. Steven Perkins May 31, 2017 at 9:27 am

      I’d like to say thank you very much for this article! This is by far the best article I’ve read in my life! Everything was succinct and supported by the text. I’m actually in the process of launching out into a full grace church and this was so helpful and necessary. I stumbled on the article because I was noticing in my studies, how the gospel differs from Paul and to that of John, Jesus and the 12. I also noticed how Paul asked in which baptism did you receive? Another point that cause my inquiry was the story of Apollos, how it was said that he was of the John baptism and his revelation wasn’t complete in so many words. Apostle Paul had Aquila and Priscilla to give him the full understanding to the gospel of grace. Thank you very much for this. I’ve been blessed immensely!??

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      1. doctrine Post authorMay 31, 2017 at 11:22 am

         Steven,
         Thank you for your kind words. Yes, these differences are contradictory and troubling unless one recognizes God began something entirely different with the apostle Paul. You may enjoy some of the other articles as well, e.g., Paul’s “Mystery”, The Church: The Body of Christ, The Great Hinge, etc. May the Lord richly bless your ministry!

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   4. AS Campbell May 28, 2018 at 2:34 am

      The answer.to.your question (s), is a resounding YES! All.the original disciples were “Saved” and they were
      ALL exhortited to “Go and make disciples of All.the nations”! Remember we are CHRISTIANS, not “Paulites “, and if ever in doubt, look to the Words of Christ ,( or, the disciples who actually knew and lived with Christ, before He ascended back into heaven).to.find out His actual Words

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      1. doctrine Post authorMay 28, 2018 at 8:00 am

         AS Campbell,
         All Church doctrine comes from Paul. He founded the Church, the body of Christ. He is the one the risen Lord revealed saved and revealed truths concerning the Church. They Twelve knew nothing of the Church. To reject Paul is to reject Christ and His salvation. It is through Pauls’ gospel that one is saved (1 Corinthians 15.1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4.14).

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         1. AS Campbell May 28, 2018 at 9:18 am

            That my friend is flat out blasphemy! We are Followers of Christ, not of Paul . The Church is based on Christ, 11 of the original Apostles (minus Judas, of course) and Paul, when Paul’s “doctrine ” falls in line with Christs Words and Commandments. To teach otherwise, is pushing a false doctrine. The Church Was/Is/And Will be, first- the Chosen Jewish Believers (Jews for Jesus, if you will) and then the Gentiles who believe in Christ. This IS written in the Old And New Testaments and is Not to be preached otherwise, as you should know. SMH.

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            1. doctrine Post authorMay 28, 2018 at 10:17 am

               AS Campbell,
               Such as statement reveals that you do not know or understand the Scriptures. One becomes a Christian by believing Paul’s gospel (Romans 2.16; 1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Do you believe Paul’s gospel? Paul declared Christians are to follow, imitate him (1 Corinthians 4.16; 11.1). To reject Paul is to reject the risen Savior. The Twelve received none of the truths Paul taught because the risen Christ revealed them to Paul alone. This is why Paul called them secrets. Thus, to attack Paul is to attack the risen Christ. That is what you are doing. Paul is “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13) and the Church, the body of Christ, is a whole new program, unknown to the Twelve, and unrevealed by Christ in His earthly ministry. Paul declared it a secret. One cannot understand the Church or Christianity unless one understands Paul because ALL Church doctrine comes from Paul through the risen Lord. God’s prophetic program with Israel and the nations has been set aside temporarily until the Church is complete. In the Church, one is neither Jew or Gentile; one is Church (Galatians 3.26-29; 2 Corinthians 5.17).

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            2. Joe May 28, 2018 at 12:03 pm

               AS Campbell,

               Is this blasphemy?

               Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)

               3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
               2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
               3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
               4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
               5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
               6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

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         2. L Backes April 12, 2019 at 4:20 pm

            Paul did not found the church. Peter did not found the church. James was the first leader of “The Way”, the new church in Christ. James teachings do not support Paul’s idea of grace at all. Why would you not want to believe the very words of the one you believe is the true Son of God and instead choose to believe the words a man who claims to have a “new gospel”? I ask you this, what did Jesus say you and I were to do in order obtain the Kingdom of Heaven versus what did Paul say we had to do? That is the topic of this discussion yet you have left out Jesus teaching in Matthew 25: 31-46. Paul teaches many good things about spirituality and living righteously, but to simply ignore what Jesus teaches to accept what Paul says is the way to Heaven seems awfully risky to me.

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            1. doctrine Post authorApril 12, 2019 at 5:05 pm

               L Backes,
               Paul declared the Church was a secret the risen Lord reveal to him. What you fail to recognize when you say, “Paul teaches many good things about spirituality and living righteously, but to simply ignore what Jesus teaches to accept what Paul says is the way to Heaven seems awfully risky to me“ is that you only mean what Jesus said in His earthly ministry. In His earthly ministry, Jesus ministered to Jews under the Law. But after He arose from the dead, He communicated in His heavenly ministry to Paul to found the Church and reveal its doctrines. As for “risky to me,” what is risky is that it is only Paul’s gospel that saves. To ignore Paul, means condemnation. It is through Paul that we learn that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead.

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      2. Bobbi May 28, 2018 at 5:54 pm

         AS Campbell,
         I would encourage you to study the preaching of the cross, according to the Revelation of the mystery!
         1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV — For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
         Romans 16:25 KJV — Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,…

         You speak as if Christ Jesus our Lord or God the Father had nothing further to say other than when he was in the flesh…
         Christ was not yet crucified. Much more was accomplished by the cross.
         God appointed Paul…
         2 Corinthians 1:21 KJV — Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
         1 Corinthians 14:37 KJV — If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

         Your missing the whole of Salvation…and what God’s purpose is today and what he has wrought in Christ! Even our ONLY HOPE AND CALLING!

         These are things today, we need to know about… even our purpose and place in Christ!

         Blessing to all brethren:)

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2. scott leonard November 16, 2012 at 7:48 am

   Again, thanks so so much for sharing this. I am learning.

   Is it the word “aliens” in I Peter 1:1 that demands that Peter is addressing Jewish believers, (I’m an alien, too!), or that they were scattered? Also, I Peter 4:3,4 seems to indicate they were Gentiles who used to sin with the rest of them? Scofield sees 2:10 as to Gentiles. JFB sees 1Pe 1:14; 2:9, 10; 3:6; 4:3 as clear evidence it was written to Gentile Christians as well as Jewish ones.

   It seems your last point is a stretch, in that whatever Jesus commanded in that Commission, it was for the whole world, for all his people, to the end of the age.

   So please give more light, if you have time. Thanks!

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   1. doctrine Post authorNovember 20, 2012 at 12:51 pm

      Two words govern “aliens”–παρεπίδημος (someone who has come to live in a foreign land) and διασπορά (usually of Jews dispersed to foreign lands particularly as a result of the Babylonian captivity). In the NT these were identified as Hellenists, i.e., Jews who had adopted Greek culture. See Acts 2.5-10 and James 1.1. His quotations from the OT referred to promises made to Jews not Gentiles. We have no evidence that Peter (or any of the Twelve) had a ministry to Gentiles. See esp. Gal. 2.7-9.

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3. Jcbmack December 19, 2012 at 1:33 pm

   Actually Peter does have a mission to the Gentiles prior to what you say:

   http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Acts/Peters-Defense-Gentile-Mission

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   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 5, 2013 at 10:28 am

      Peter’s visit to Cornelius in Acts 10 was a one-time event and occurred after Paul was saved. When Peter returned to Jerusalem we read that the apostles and other believers were upset that Peter had gone to a Gentile (Acts 11.1-2). If they had been evangelizing Gentiles why would they have been upset? We have no Biblical record of the Twelve ministering to Gentiles (cf. Acts 11.19, 21.19-20 cf. Galatians 2.7-9). Evangelism to Gentiles did not begin until after Paul was saved and such ministry was done almost exclusively by Paul or through his converts. The commentary you mention is an example of the non-Scriptural thinking I have written about in The Christian Myth.

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      1. Mike April 2, 2016 at 12:19 am

         Jonah was sent by God to the Ninevites who were Gentiles, long before Paul was around and told to repent, which they did.

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         1. doctrine Post authorApril 2, 2016 at 8:09 am

            Mike,
            Please see my article, Jonah: The Angry Prophet. For the most part, God commanded Jews to remain separate from Gentiles. God’s commissioning of Jonah to go to Nineveh was an exception. In His earthly ministry, Jesus continued this separation (Matthew 10.5-6; 15.21-28, see my article, Two Remarkable Healings). Peter addressed only Jews at Pentecost and did not want to go to the house of the Gentile, Cornelius, several years later. Paul, on the other hand, was commissioned by the risen Lord as the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11.13). It was Paul who evangelized Gentiles, not Peter or the Twelve.

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4. Thomas April 2, 2013 at 1:25 pm

   Every time I read the Bible, one of the interesting things is that you take different things from it. It is no more static than we are as people and individuals.

   I believe in God’s grace, but also that we as humans translate it (as best we can). I’ve gotten harder on Paul than I used to be, perhaps because I find his “translation” lacking and see so many human flaws in him. Arrogance is chief among those.

   His tone is often dismissive and even snide regarding the Disciples. He takes what he wants from their messaging and adds his own. When he runs into disagreement, he passes off his view as divine knowledge, which can be used for pretty much any religious stance. With all due respect Paul, your “visions” matter little when compared to the actual experiences of the disciples who lived with Jesus. I’ll trust those who were there over you and indeed, if they’re disagreeing with you, those particular views seem even more suspect.

   Paul comes off as a photocopy of the Word and like all photocopies there are distortions and a falling away from the true, original. Paul was a man of deep faith and an incredibly effective salesman. Keeping with the law, especially adult circumcision (ouch!) is harder to sell, thus it gets the boot. Jesus’ death a downer? Not at all, in fact Jesus’ death was great news (I see it as both personally).

   It’s not controversial to say that Paul was the most successful at spreading the Word and that without him we likely would not have had Christianity, at least not of the same size and scope. But that is not the same as saying that his message was accurate, or even close to the reality of Christ. God is God, but you have to wonder how much of Jesus’ message as God’s son was lost, plastered over by Paul’s more successful conversions.

   In the event of Jesus’ second coming (a literal one, imagine a man bathed in light walking in robes), I imagine his first question for us would be why we aren’t obeying the Law? Just because something is easier (not obeying the law), does not mean it is still what God wants, Gentile or Jew.

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   1. doctrine Post authorApril 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm

      Thomas,

      Without Paul, we don’t have Christianity. The 12 knew nothing of the Church, the body of Christ, our identification in Christ’s death and resurrection, the gospel of grace, the rapture, the blinding of Israel, etc. Furthermore, the 12 never ministered to Gentiles. Paul always had to defend his ministry from those who wanted to put Gentiles under the Mosaic Law. This was one of the reasons he declared that he had worked harder and suffered more than all of the 12. He also recognized that by the Lord’s grace he had been shown things they had no clue of and that these revelations had superseded the things the 12 knew. In truth, like Moses, Paul was probably the most humble man on the planet.

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      1. Thomas June 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm

         Thank you for the response. However, your comments are an excellent defense of being a “Pauline”, but not necessarily a Christian. It seems a defense for Paul essentially making things up. The bottom line is that he was not there. The 12 bore witness DIRECTLY to the gospel of Christ. No translation, no A-B-C communication. They were there, so I find it strange to discount them, or to place Paul’s interpretations superior to theirs. I find it equally strange to say they knew nothing of the Church when Christ told Peter that he was the rock on which he would build his Church and is recognized as the first Pope. Or did Christ know nothing of the Church too?
         The 12 were not nearly as effective at selling the message as Paul. Paul was better at telling his audience what they wanted to hear, which raises my original concern of the message of Christ vs. what Paul created. Your description of Paul declaring that he had worked harder and suffered more than all of the 12 is not at all indicative of a humble person. Paul’s arrogance does not make him right or wrong.
         I agree, without Paul we do not have Christianity. It’s whether that Christianity has much relation to Christ’s actual life, teachings, death, and resurrection that is the central question. From his writings and the non-Pauline books of the New Testament, there are serious philosophical differences.

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         1. doctrine Post authorJune 12, 2013 at 9:31 am

            Thomas,

            The Twelve received their apostolic commission and doctrine from the earthly Lord. Paul received his apostolic commission and doctrine from the heavenly Lord (Acts 9.3-16, 22.6-21, 26.13-18). Both were direct experiences. One was earthly, the other heavenly. Paul related he had received his gospel directly from the risen Lord (Galatians 1.11-12, 2.1). He received information about the Lord’s Supper directly from the risen Lord (1 Corinthians 11.23-25). Notice how many times Paul wrote, “Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God…” All the doctrine Paul termed “secret” (μυστήριον) he received directly from the glorified Lord (cf. Ephesians 3.1-7). The Twelve knew nothing of these doctrines until they learned them from Paul. Even at the end of Peter’s life he had a hard time comprehending them (2 Peter 3.15-16). Now as for arrogance, Paul declared he was the least of all saints (Ephesians 3.8). Does that sound arrogant? One must understand the context of Paul’s statement of having worked harder than all the rest (1 Corinthians 15.10) and suffered more (2 Corinthians 11). Paul was always under attack and having the defend his ministry. That is why he said those things.

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            1. Marylyn January 8, 2015 at 12:52 pm

               I agree with Thomas,

               We have to remember who wrote all those books you quote, Paul wrote 13 books, and 2 Peter was written by a follower of Paul. I am not saying I agree with everything, “Trust no man”, but, I am suspicious of Paul and his contradictory teachings and I study more because of it. Thanks for the article, it opened my eyes, but in the way it was supposed to I gather.

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               1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 8, 2015 at 1:07 pm

                  Marylyn,
                  2 Peter was written by Peter. Paul is not contradictory. He received his doctrine from the risen, glorified Christ (Galatians 1.11-12). The Twelve received their doctrine from Christ in His earthly ministry. That ministry was to Israel under the Mosaic Law. The Church is not Jewish and it is not under the Law. These are two entirely different environments and programs.

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                  1. Becky February 10, 2015 at 6:43 am

                     I am curious to know what Thomas and Marilyn follow. Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles. Jesus, our Savior. Either Paul heard directly from the Lord or he didn’t. If he sprinkled truth in a bowl of arrogance and pride, then he is the worst kind of deceiver, and all his poisoned writings should be ripped out of the bible. By Thomas’ and Marilyn’s statements, Jesus sent us a deceiver or Paul was an absolute liar and never heard from the Lord Jesus. Paul fought the good fight, finished the course, and kept the faith.

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                  2. Fadi Chaabo December 15, 2015 at 10:40 pm

                     Hi all, god has just one program, that started with Adam. For controversies and books that are changed over time, it is helpful to review the facts. Jesus lived a total different idea than Paul. The disciples followed Jesus and in the great commission it clearly says: Go therefore and make disciples of call the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
                     20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

                     That is so clear. Maybe Paul was a not was we think he is. We should not hold on something, just because we are used to it. We have a mind that thinks. Dont just follow, think and follow. I am a believer in god, but I dont believe in Paul. Jesus is the light send from god to guide us.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorDecember 16, 2015 at 8:07 am

                        Fadi,
                        God has several programs that all operate around his strategic program of redeeming mankind and resolving the angelic conflict. God had a program with all mankind. He then initiated a program with Abraham that later included the Mosaic Law. He then initiated a new program with Paul, the Church, the body of Christ. In the future, He will initiate His program of the Millennium and finally, the New Heavens and New Earth. Each of these programs have different rules of operation. The Church program is wholly different from the program we read about in the Gospels. Jesus ministered to Jew only under the Law to confirm the promises God made to the Jews (Romans 15.8). The Church operates under grace and God is building His body. These are wholly different programs. Mix them and the result is the confusion present in Christendom. Why do we have 40,000+ denominations? Because Christendom has mixed the programs.

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                        1. PeggySue June 30, 2018 at 3:47 pm

                           in the New Heaven and New Earth … we will be keeping the SABBATH .. the Sabbath is the LORDs Day and its our 4th Commandment that says to REMEMBER the 7th day — nothing about keeping the 1st day Sun-day – the Apostle Paul never Kept Sun-day worship He always kept the SABBATH and he kept God’s FEAST days … Paul never observed Easter Christmas Halloween Lent etc ..

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                           1. doctrine Post authorJune 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm

                              PeggySue,
                              Please see my article, Paul and the Law concerning the Sabbath. The Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law God gave to the Jews. Members of the Church, the body of Christ, are not under the administration of the Mosaic Law but are under the administration of the Holy Spirit.
                           2. PeggySue July 1, 2018 at 12:19 pm

                              doctrine Post author … the SABBATH is not a Mosic Law — the Sabbath was established in the very beginning of Time … who Chose Sun-day to be the Lords day .. by Who’s Authority ???? … the Apostle Paul kept and taught on the Sabbath – so where did Sun-day come in — a prophecy !! a little horn will think to Change Time and Law — notices he will Think he changed the Law of God- but in Reality No man Can Change the Law of God … – History show’s it was a Roman Emperor who Changed the Sabbath to Sun-day … and the Catholic Church accepts that authority ship and they Claim to be the Mother Church over Christianity — the Sabbath is for Both Israel and Christians the Sabbath separates God’s people from the World and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath … One God -One Lord – One Body – One Faith – One Baptism – One Hope and One HOLY day the SABBATH <3 … Sun-day is rooted in Sun-god Worshipper's — No where in your Bible did God do away with the Sabbath and told His People to worship Him on a Sun-god Pagan SUN-day 1st day of the week … don't be deceived <3
                           3. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2018 at 1:50 pm

                              PeggySue,
                              Not one verse in the Bible supports the idea the Sabbath was kept before God gave the Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was a covenant. All covenants after the Noahic covenant were made with Israel, the Jeww. Gentiles had no part of them (Ephesians 2.1—12). God gave the Sabbatic Covenant in Exodus 31.12-18 and incorporated it into the Decalogue (Exodus 20) for Israel. Paul taught on the Sabbath because that was when Jews would meet at the synagogue. But Paul never taught that the Church is to keep the Sabbath. On the contrary, he taught the exact opposite (Romans 14.5; Colossians 2.16). Christians celebrate Sunday because Christ rose from the dead Sunday morning. It is the great day for without the resurrection, salvation does not exist. When Jesus declared he was Lord of the Sabbath, He did so as a minister to Israel, not to Gentiles, not to the Church (Romans 15.8). The idea the Sabbath was for all mankind or established for mankind to follow from creation is false teaching.
                           4. PeggySue July 1, 2018 at 1:06 pm

                              The Sabbath was NOT just for the JEWs … the SABBATH was MADE for MAN it was CREATED in the beginning by GOD … and JESUS is LORD of the SABBATH — No where in your Bible did God do away with HIS day and let some Emperor change His HOLY day to a Pagan Sun-god — Sun-day
                           5. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2018 at 3:14 pm

                              PeggySue,
                              You provide no Scripture to support your view. Lots of people have ideas about the Bible but if you cannot support them with Scripture they are just opinions. I encourage you to read the Scriptures and base your views on them, not upon opinion.
                        2. PeggySue July 1, 2018 at 6:16 pm

                           many scriptures in Genesis … tells us that God all ready had His Laws in placed – how else would we have known that there were Wickedness and Evilness in the world – Genesis 13:13 the Men of Sodom were Wicked and Sinful against God … Why punish Sodom if there were No Laws … Genesis 20:3-9 and 39:7-9 describes ADULTRY as a Great Sin in 39:7 Joseph and the master’s Wife how did Joseph know it would cause him great wickedness and Sin against God ( 7th commandment ) in Genesis 3:6, 17 God punished Adam/Eve for their coveting Stealing and dishonor their Parent Father God ( 5th 8th 10th commandment) Genesis 4:9-12 God punished Cain for Murder and Lying (6th 9th commandment) several weeks before God establish His Covenant with the Israelites He Tested them with the SABBATH ( 4th commandment) ..

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                           1. doctrine Post authorJuly 1, 2018 at 7:10 pm

                              PeggySue,
                              The moral law is not the same as the Mosaic Law. You still have provided no Scripture to show anyone kept the Sabbath before God gave the Mosaic Law. Unless you can do so, you have injected your own opinion for the Scripture. When you find such a Scripture, I will will response but if not, this issue is closed.
                           2. PeggySue July 3, 2018 at 3:36 pm

                              I’m confused … didn’t God always have HIS LAW in place — if not then why were so many Punished for disobeying them … from Adam/Eve to Now — What do you call the Mosic Law ? … the 10 Commandment are still and will always be the LAW of God even JESUS added to them — When we Love God we Love His Commandments and Obey them which are written on our Hearts — the 1st Commandment says YOU shall have other God before Me – 2nd said YOU shall Not make for yourself Caved IMAGEs – 3rd You shall Not take the Name of the Lord Your God in vain – 4th REMEMBER the SABBATH day … the first 4 Commandments are to do with how we worship God the other 6 Commandments are to do with our MORAL Values — Jesus said He did not come to destroy the LAW or of the Prophets but to fulfill … The Mosic Law of blood sacrifice and Ceremonial Laws were done away with at the cross not the 10 Commandments — Paul says we are to imitate him … but didn’t Paul Imitate Jesus … didn’t both Paul and Jesus Keep the Sabbath and observed God’ FEAST days …. also Why would Paul do away with the SABBATH and the FEAST of the Lord Your God and have His follower’s observe Sun-day Christmas Easter Halloween etc … which we Know are PAGAN origins and have nothing to do with God in fact they are in complete opposite ( sound like something Satan would do – didn’t Satan wanted to be worship Sun-god worship vs SABBATH ) … Paul may be the Apostle for the Gentiles but You show me in scripture where God Change the SABBATH to Sun-day ? … where / when did Paul give AUTHORITY to have these days Changed ? … where is the Scripture of a Sun-day worship is Approved by God … in the Bible God said over and over and over that the SABBATH is His Day … and yet You and other’s teach that Sun-day is the lords day … the Fact is there is NO Scripture where God said Sun-day is His day … God said Jesus is Lord of the SABBATH no where did God say Jesus is Lord of Sun-day —
                           3. doctrine Post authorJuly 3, 2018 at 4:04 pm

                              PeggySue,
                              The moral law has always existed. The Mosaic Law began at Mt. Sinai. It was a covenant given only to Israel (Ephesians 2.11-12). Members of the Church, the body of Christ, keep the moral law through faith and the control of the Holy Spirit. All one has to do is read Galatians to see that members of the Church are not under the Mosaic Law. See my article, Paul and the Law. The Sabbath was NEVER kept before the Mosaic Law and we have no commands to keep it (see Romans 14.5-6; Colossians 2.16). Anyone who teaches Christians are to keep the Sabbath is a false teacher. No one has changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Christians celebrate Sunday because that was the day Christ arose but Sunday is not the Sabbath. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath but Jesus spoke this to Jews, not to the Church, the body of Christ. Until you understand the vast difference between Israel and the Church, you will be confused.
                     2. Bobbi July 26, 2016 at 4:51 pm

                        I love to read the Bible. I read everyday. One think revealed to me is that The Law was given to Israel. It was not given to the gentle nation’s. We read in Deut. 32:8-9 “When the Most high gave to the nation’s their inheritance, when he devided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But the Lords portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.” ESV. Paul’s gospel IS THE ONLY way to Jesus for us of the gentiles or nations. There was no other way provided for us. I thank God everyday for this gospel. It saves my soul.

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            2. Tony January 9, 2017 at 3:08 am

               Hi Doctrine, as always your articles are very informative and enlightening and I am thoroughly enjoying what is being revealed to me. I do have a question however in regards to the following statement Thomas mentioned in his previous response: “I find it equally strange to say they (the apostles) knew nothing of the Church when Christ told Peter that he was the rock on which he would build his Church.”
               Question: I believe the rock that Christ referred to when speaking with Peter, which he would build his church on was the revelation which Peter spoke out that Jesus was the Son of God (what the Jews were required to believe during the gospel of the Kingdom). If this is true, then how is the Church (made up primarily of the Gentiles) today (which Christ is the head) built on the gospel of grace; the belief in the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins? Why did Jesus tell Peter what he did regarding the building of his church based on a revelation Peter gave regarding Christ being the Son of God which is what the Gospel of the Kingdom centered around?

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               1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 9, 2017 at 9:15 am

                  Tony,
                  Please see my article, On This Rock.

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               2. Nathan Horvatich November 11, 2018 at 8:18 pm

                  And by who did the lord reveal grace to us..? through Pau..

                  I’m reading this bantering back and forth, some comments reflect about zero understanding of the requirement of being a dispensationalist in approach to scripture..and about nil on understanding of the fundamentals of the faith..which I can presume the reason by what scripture says..”the natural man receiveth not the things of God..nor can he understand them..I see a whole lot of people looking through their unsaved, natural man intellect and trying to dissect the word. You can’t do it. Only those born again can understand the Bible…and the fruit im seeing here tells me that many unsaved Men are commenting about matters they no nothing about

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         2. David July 22, 2015 at 1:42 pm

            Paul injected personal opinion into his letters. That is not a matter of dispute – he prefaced certain statements to that effect. The question is, did he always insert that disclaimer?
            But there is a more important thing to remember. The Bible is not a book. That’s right, it’s not a book.
            It’s a library. Many authors, many intents. Assembled long afterwards into a one-volume library. The gospels were collaboratively written accounts of Jesus’ life, agreed upon by many believers, for use by all local churches.
            Paul’s letters were just that, letters. To throw them out, as having no value, is to discredit a devoted follower of Jesus. But they are personal communications from one man. Just as the writings of Polycarp, or Irenaeus, or Cyril of Jerusalem, or Basil of Caesarea, or Clement of Rome, or indeed of any other Christian throughout history. To weight them as being as valuable, or indeed more valuable, than the words of Immanuel, is to fall into error. I don’t mean doctrinal error. I mean sin. To esteem Paul above the Messiah is sin.
            Jesus is the touchstone for every doctrine any Christian, in any time, arguing from any other text or any revelation, may develop. Paul himself said this, writing to Timothy (2 Timothy 3:16). He wasn’t talking about his letters. Indeed, I have to wonder what Paul would have thought of people elevating his letters to be on a par with the law, the prophets and the psalms, and especially the words of Jesus himself.

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            1. doctrine Post authorJuly 22, 2015 at 3:37 pm

               David,
               Paul’s letters express far more than his personal opinions. They are wholly different from the letters of Polycarp, Irenaeus, etc. Paul stated his writings came by revelation from the glorified Lord (Romans 16.25; Galatians 1.12, 2.2; Ephesians 3.3(. Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16). In other words, what we read in Paul’s letters are Jesus’ words (from heaven). Paul’s writings completed the canon (Colossians 1.25) though it took the Church a while to recognize this.

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               1. drumbo February 2, 2016 at 10:33 pm

                  If Paul isn’t inspired… who appeared to Ananias in his behalf? ( Ananias – 1st human witness) Also, why would Peter side with him at the Jerusalem council?( Peter 2nd human witness) I’m passionate about Paul, true, because MESSIAH (3rd witness, 1st in order, but non-human..that makes for 3 witnesses)), chose him. I’ve also been an arguer of the canon being put together by alot of folks who might have had impure motives…ah but then I remember the absolute power of YHWH.( Yahuah, Yahweh, Jehovah..) who can use anyone, to do anything, at any time. HE is not a God of confusion. I see Paul as an inspired Apostle, because his message came directly from the risen Jesus ( Yahusha, Yeshua, Yehoshua, Joshua, Jehosha, Immanuel, Son of YHWH) I do advocate for free will, and study, and encourage questioning everything… with caution in mind.
                  WE ALL would do well to remember the old story about Korah and Moses, I’m sure alot of folks that sided with Korah, were convinced that old Moses was just arrogantly shooting his mouth off…but they were indeed mistaken. Question Paul, by all means… but remember, Ananias, Peter, and our risen Messiah are reported to bear witness to his inspiration, that makes 3. This is a confusing time I know, and all true seekers simply want to have the right info…totally understandable, it just comes down to whether we believe scripture or not. This library of writings is all we have that’s tangible, so either we believe we were given enough of it to work things out, or we don’t…if we don’t, then what do we have? If this so named “canon” is untrustworthy…then all inspired works are…that also means Enoch, Jasher, or any of the history books centered around the “canon”… all of it. I’m no scholar, just a legitimate truth seeker, who has BEGGED for truth, PLEADED and CRIED… Paul’s inspired words have been a light in darkness, but here’s the key…those words aren’t Paul’s…they were inspired by the Son of YHWH….. they were spoken with Paul’s mouth, or pen… but it’s reported that 3 witnesses attest to Paul’s calling. that’s enough for me, but…that’s just me. Be kind to each other. (and… do indeed question EVERY spirit by all means, just do it respectfully, remembering that WE ALL are trying to work out this salvation issue…and whether we have disagreements or not…that makes us a family, like it or not.) Love to you all.

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                  1. Jfollower February 19, 2016 at 11:24 pm

                     Paul was a deceiver, he is a false prophet, Jesus’ Words and Paul’s CONFLICT. Their doctrine CONFLICTS. I chose to follow JESUS not Paul. We’ll see how it is resolved at the White Throne Judgement. Paul v Jesus… I chose JESUS.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 8:52 am

                        Jfollower,
                        One cannot follow Jesus and not follow Paul. No salvation exists apart from Paul’s gospel of grace which he received directly from the risen Christ (1 Corinthians 15.1-4; Galatians 1.11-12). One cannot be a Christian apart from Paul. Paul was the founder of Christianity. Jesus came to present Himself as King of the Jews and fulfill the promises made to the Jews (Romans 15.8). If you want to obey Jesus follow Paul. Not to do so is to declare you are an enemy of Christ.

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                        1. ebonai July 13, 2016 at 3:09 pm

                           Jesus, Peter and Paul set out the same message for salvation (John 3:1-6; Acts 2:36-38; Romans 6:1-6 and Acts 19:1-6). There was no difference, it was REPENTANCE + BAPTISM (Water) +SPIRIT upon forgiveness of Sin. Paul who himself was baptized could not have gone teaching a different gospel, mostly when it was a commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. (Acts 22:16; Matt 28:18-20). Paul never condemned baptism, (see Acts 19:1-6) as the point in 1 Cor 1:14, was on division and not baptism. He only alluded to baptism because of the quarrel that was as a matter of speaking placing a human leader above CHRIST JESUS. This line of argument was applied by Paul to show that non of the supposed group leaders amounted to anything except CHRIST JESUS.

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                           1. doctrine Post authorJuly 13, 2016 at 4:23 pm

                              Ebonai,
                              No, Peter and the Twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom. Paul proclaimed the gospel of grace (Acts 20.21). He received it directly from the risen Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). Had the Twelve preached the same thing there never would have been an argument at the Council of Jerusalem. See my article, The Great Hinge. The gospel of the kingdom required works: water baptism, keeping the Law, forgiveness of sins, etc. Paul’s gospel was wholly without works. It was faith + 0. Paul wrote in Ephesians 4.5 there is ONE baptism. That was the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12.13). This statement ended legitimacy of water baptism.
                           2. LB May 10, 2017 at 3:10 pm

                              Baptism is NOT a work. It is passive – it is a surrender, a submission, a burial. A corpse does not do anything to bury itself. God does all the work at baptism.
                           3. doctrine Post authorMay 10, 2017 at 4:18 pm

                              LB,
                              A work is something one does. Baptism was a washing and washing is a work. Before the priests ministered in the Temple they washed. See Hebrews 9.10 where the word βαπτισμός is used. This was a work.
                        2. Mark March 31, 2018 at 7:38 pm

                           Certainly one can follow Jesus and not follow Paul. Paul invented Christianity and it was the heathens who called them that derogetory name. Paul invented Christianity. Jesus never used the word christian or christianity. Whats more 2 times someone came to jesus and asked him what to do to inherit eternal life. He told them in one case to love god with all your heart soul and mind. And in the other case he told the person to keep the commandments to inherit eternal life. Furthermore as regards to all the words of paul being inspired and not his own words or opinion there are 4 times when he said what he was giving them through the written letter was not from god but from his own opinion or judgement. ICor. 7:6, 12,25,40. He he says he had nothing from God on a certain subject and yet gave his judgment on the matter, then that judgement is not from God. I agree that one cannot be a christian apart from Paul. Why would you want to. If you claim to follow Jesus then follow him instead of being a “Chrisitian” invented by Saul of Tarsus. Also, when someone challenges you on the authenticity of Pauls vision, you go to his own testimony as proof. What proof is that? Where are the witnesses? In one account Paul says they saw the light but heard no voice. in the other they heard the voice but saw nothing. Paul contradicts his own story. There are no credible witnesses and Pauls own testimony is suspect. The 12 apostles of Jesus learned directly from him.

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                           1. doctrine Post authorApril 2, 2018 at 8:37 am

                              Mark,
                              On the contrary, no one can follow Jesus apart from Paul. It is Paul’s gospel that saves, which he received directly from the risen Christ. Paul did not “invent” Christianity. He received all his doctrines from Christ. When Paul wrote that he spoke “not by commandment” it meant that he had not received specific instruction regarding the matter from the Lord. But his instruction was still under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If one does not accept Paul, one also cannot accept the witness of the 12 or their writings for they all recognized Paul’s apostleship and authority. The only books in the NT which would remain in this scenario would be Matthew and Jude. The 12 apostles learned of Jesus in His earthly ministry. Paul learned of Jesus in His heavenly ministry.
                           2. Bobbi April 2, 2018 at 9:05 am

                              The entire Bible is God’s testimony concerning his Son, Jesus Christ…
                              Not just the gospels, which are about Jesus “coming to his own”! Who are his own?… Israel. Not you and me.
                              Christ Jesus, the RISEN Lord of Glory gave Paul the gospel to save us heathen gentiles! Without his epistles, we are toast friend. Wake up.
                              Eph.2:
                              1 ¶And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
                              2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
                              3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
                              4 ¶But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
                              5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
                              6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
                              7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
                     2. RVM March 12, 2018 at 3:21 am

                        Me too. Paul contradicts the central message of Jesus. The message Jesus preached to the masses. Salvation by grace directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus. It might be true there wouldn’t be Christianity without Paul, but by practicing the religion of Paul, you cannot be said to be following Jesus. One must choose. I too, have chosen Jesus.

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                        1. doctrine Post authorMarch 12, 2018 at 8:01 am

                           RVM,
                           Everything Paul received, he received from the risen Christ. Refusal to follow Paul means refusal to follow Christ. Jesus ministered on earth to Israel. This ministry had nothing to do with the Church, the body of Christ, for the Church had not been revealed. It was a secret. Through Paul, Christ founded the Church and gave him all the doctrines concerning the Church. Unless one understands this, one cannot follow Christ today. The Church is not Israel.

                           Reply ↓
                           1. Ilya Petrenko May 22, 2018 at 11:24 am

                              starting to get a broken record when it comes to defending Saul. Anyman can claim and do the same as Saul, and when this happens there really seems no point in the 12 disciples or everything leading up to Yeshua. Seems like another new age religion. Saul also defended slavery… quite contrary to setting the captives free message of Jesus.
                           2. doctrine Post authorMay 22, 2018 at 12:10 pm

                              Illya,
                              Based on this comment and others you posted and not published, I assume you have no problem with tossing out the rest of the New Testament. This is what one must do if one rejects Paul for all the gospel writers (with the possible exception of Matthew) accepted Paul as an apostle chosen by Christ. The only book you might retain in the NT is Jude. All others have to go if one rejects Paul. Consider the following words Peter wrote at the end of his life to Jewish believers: 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures (2 Peter 3.14-16). The enemies of Paul are untaught, unstable, and headed for destruction.
                        2. Bobbi March 12, 2018 at 7:57 pm

                           Well that is just sad…I hope you will consider this passage…Paul is recounting what Ananias said to him.

                           Acts 22:14 KJV — And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
                           15 — For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
                           If you reject these words you reject the RISEN Lord of glory who died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day…1 Cor. 15:3,4.

                           This is from the Lord Jesus Christ.

                           Rom. 3:10¶As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
                           11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
                           12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

                           The way of Salvation is by God’s grace, through faith alone in Christ alone.

                           Eph.1:3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
                           4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
                           5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
                           6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
                           7¶In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;…

                           So very simple. Thank you Lord.

                           Reply ↓
               2. Faith April 2, 2016 at 11:27 am

                  Here is the thing Doctrine- How in the world can one state that we should dismiss Paul and his teachings? What are we all Jews now? If so, would we be able to follow the Jewish Law also along with Jesus’ teaching? Would we understand as a Gentile how to live like the Jews? As of today, I have no clue how to live like a Jew. Where are all the Jewish Christians teaching us how to live according to the Jewish prophecy and for the kingdom?Was Peter and James (and the rest of the disciples) ALL deceived for following and accepting Pauls teachings?
                  I am amazed at how many people want to chuck out portions of scripture and say there is no use for this teaching. How does one deduce this?

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                  1. doctrine Post authorApril 2, 2016 at 12:11 pm

                     Faith,
                     What has been done to overcome these obvious difficulties is to say the Church has supplanted Israel and all the things pertaining to Israel were merely typological until the greater revelation of the Church. So all Jewishdom is subsumed into the Church. There are elements of truth in this view, i.e., the fact that Israel has been set aside temporarily and that both Jew and Gentile are equal in Christ. But those that hold these views fail to recognize that God is sovereign and keeps His promises to Jew and Gentile. Thus, all the covenant promises God made will be fulfilled. They were not mere types being fulfilled by the Church. All this is done by theological legerdemain. It is misdirection and ultimately deceit.

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                  2. L Backes April 12, 2019 at 6:34 pm

                     Faith,
                     Read James closely, and read Matthew 25:36-41. James, the brother of Jesus led the early church, not Peter, not Paul. Paul teaches well on how to be righteous and live a sin free life, but his message of free grace, was not ever mentioned by Jesus. Jesus said we will be judged accordingly, James agreed, and its written again by John in Revelation.

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                     1. doctrine Post authorApril 12, 2019 at 6:47 pm

                        L Backes,
                        James led believing Jews, not the Church, the body of Christ. Matthew 25.36-41 concerns those who succor believing Jews in the Tribulation. No one but Paul wrote to the Church. All Church doctrine comes from Paul. Peter, James, John, and Jude wrote to believing Jews, Jews who had believed the gospel of the kingdom, not Paul’s gospel of grace. See James 1.1 and Peter 1.1. The risen Christ commissioned Paul to be “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13), the one who began the Church. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners and Paul’s “Mystery”.

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         3. Becky June 7, 2016 at 6:46 pm

            God relayed and/or dispensed His message however and to whomever He chose. The writers include salutations so we know to whom God is speaking. Ultimately, God’s message is Love (Agape) and Reconciliation with man through Jesus. Let God’s Love take root, crucify the EGO (flesh) and sharpen the sword (debate) with love to the edification of the hearer and to the Glory of God who is not the author of confusion. Let’s promote harmony rather than discord. Let scripture interpret scripture via the Holy Spirit. Doc clearly rightly divides scripture – Christ is the Rock, 1 Cor 10:4, 2 Samuel 22:47.

            Reply ↓
   2. Luis C Ramirez May 5, 2016 at 11:27 am

      “Human flaws” in Paul is correct, because he was just like all of us, human and full of mistakes. And for this reason his teachings (letters) are not (and were not in JESUS’ days) considered as Scripture in my Spiritual walk. While JESUS’ Teachings and/or Sayings (Didache), and His actions, were Pure and Perfect!

      The Roman Catholics were the ones that made Paul’s teachings part of scripture; they chose for you!

      Reply ↓
      1. doctrine Post authorMay 5, 2016 at 1:15 pm

         Luis,
         Your comment indicates a low opinion of the risen Lord. He chose Paul. He commissioned him as the Apostle of the Gentiles, the Apostle of the grace of God, the founder of the Church, the founder of Christianity. The ascended Lord revealed to Paul doctrines He had kept hidden and secret from the foundation of the world. Paul is to the Church what Abraham and Moses were to Israel. One cannot know God apart from his gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Peter wrote his Jewish readers that Paul’s writing were Scripture (2 Peter 3.14-16). This was hundreds of years before the Roman Catholic church came into existence.

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         1. Grace Receiver May 5, 2016 at 4:19 pm

            Don, this is a disturbing trend here….
            It was bad enough to have people saying that Paul’s letters were “mistranslated” or that certain verses of his were “smuggled in”, but what is this??? People are outright rejecting Paul?
            Heaven help us….

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            1. doctrine Post authorMay 5, 2016 at 5:48 pm

               Grace Receiver,
               Yes, sad. People are deceived by Satan (2 Corinthians 4.4; 2 Timothy 1.15) for the “secret of iniquity is at work (2 Thessalonians 2.7). Paul is the center of gravity for God’s current program so it is no surprise. The time is getting short and these attitudes and attacks will intensify.

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   3. Luis Ramirez October 11, 2016 at 2:35 pm

      You are correct young man,
      There is an article in TC (Todays Christianity) going back to 2010, in which Scot McKnight writes about the differences between Jesus and Paul, which he had experienced in college and at his church.

      “I find his “translation” lacking and see so many human flaws in him. Arrogance is chief among those.” Paul was, just like all of us, a product of “the tree of Right and wrong,” and therefore we are all sometimes right and sometimes wrong. JESUS was not the product of Right and wrong (tree of Good and evil), and therefore He was always Right/Correct!
      To say that Paul was correct in all of his writings, is to say that that Paul was equal to Christ, and that is completely wrong!

      Find CHRIST and you will be set free!

      Reply ↓
      1. doctrine Post authorOctober 11, 2016 at 3:36 pm

         Luis,
         Do you believe the Scriptures are God-breathed? Do you think the Holy Spirit did not oversee Paul’s writings? Do you think He did not oversee Moses’ writings? What Paul wrote he received from Christ in His heavenly ministry. Do you think the words of Christ on earth are superior to His words he spoke from heaven?

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         1. Tony January 9, 2017 at 3:39 am

            Luis,
            How in the world can you possibly believe that the chief of Paul’s human flaws was Arrogance as you quoted above? I Corinthians 15:9-10 and Romans 12:3 clearly shows this to be farthest from the truth!

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         2. Brian February 7, 2017 at 5:54 am

            What proof do you have, beside Paul’s own claims, that what Paul say came from God?

            I’m sorry, but I do NOT believe this. You attribute his words as Holy or God Breatthed, but under no proof what so ever.
            Your faith in it is not proof of it. If that were the case, then there’s be no need for a written word.

            Paul’s claims of Prophethood are only from him and him alone. Nothing else affirms this. Nothing.

            2 Peter is not a good example either. It’s probably the most unaccepted “canonical” book there is.

            The letter does not follow Paul’s style, message or anything.
            By all accounts it does not come from him. It also says Peter accepted Paul’s words as gospel, but historical records show otherwise. Peter was Paul’s chief antagonist. Of COURSE you’d claim he’s now of Paul’s side if you are trying to get some sort of backing on it.

            Remember, most couldn’t read then, and letters were not mass produced. It was targeted at a single person or small group.

            Sorry, you can’t prove Paul with Paul.

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            1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 7, 2017 at 9:33 am

               Brian,
               You wrote many posts which essentially say the same thing. I’ve answered such comments many times. If you do not believe Paul was commissioned by the risen Lord you have to get rid of all NT writings except Matthew and Jude. They are the only writings and writers that do not mention Paul or explicitly accept him as an apostle. Peter, James, John, Luke, Barnabus, Silas, Timothy, etc. affirmed Paul’s apostleship. In Luke’s account of the Jewish exorcists, the demons recognized Jesus and Paul (Acts 19.11-17). They didn’t mention Peter or any of the Twelve with Jesus, they mentioned Paul. The gospel Paul received from the glorified Christ is the way of salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Believe it and live.

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5. MVS April 24, 2013 at 10:36 am

   Absolutely great article!
   Very refreshing to find out that there are still some who read their bibles!

   Reply ↓
6. Shelvin November 7, 2013 at 6:34 am

   This is a great article. Thank you very much.
   I pray that all would come to understand the powder of God that can transform lives as the Lord did in the Apostle Paul on that road to Damascus, and that the Holy Spirit would direct us in the pursuit of truth.

   Thank you once again to all who wrote this article .

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorNovember 7, 2013 at 10:55 am

      Thank you!

      Reply ↓
7. Faith alone December 12, 2013 at 9:37 pm

   Can someone just believe Romans 10:9 Confess Jesus is Lord and Believe God raise him from the dead and they are saved? or only believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 alone saves or is it both?

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorDecember 13, 2013 at 1:14 pm

      1 Corinthians 15.1-4 is the most complete and clear definition of Paul’s gospel. Romans 10.9 is a restating of it in an abbreviated form. The point is that we are saved solely by the work of Christ on the cross and the proof that His work accomplished the payment of sins was His resurrection. Salvation by faith alone is simply believing what God has declared. It is trust in a person–God Himself.

      Reply ↓
8. Saved Forever January 15, 2014 at 1:14 am

   Why use NASB bible? The King James bible is the only Bible that is not a Copy of the Vatican Bible with edits?
   Example NASB
   1 Peter 2
   New American Standard Bible (NASB)
   As Newborn Babes

   2 Therefore, putting aside all [a]malice and all deceit and [b]hypocrisy and [c]envy and all [d]slander, 2 like newborn babies, long for the [e]pure [f]milk of the word, so that by it you may grow [g]in respect to salvation,

   and KJV
   we are already saved but growing in faith

   KJV 1 Peter 2:2
   1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

   2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

   The King JAmes bible is the only true translation in English that is not a lie

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 15, 2014 at 1:23 pm

      The KJV translators were godly men but more manuscripts have been discovered and studied since their day. The real issue is to discern the best texts, for they are the basis of translations. This is a matter of textual criticism. In a nutshell, we have 105% of the information and the challenge is to determine the right 100%. The KJV is a very good translation but it is not perfect.

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      1. Eugene September 13, 2015 at 9:09 pm

         I’m a bit confused with your statement. May I please clarify one thing? Are you suggesting these KJv translators who were”godly men” you were referring to were not godly enough to make their version good enough to stand the test of time? We’re talking about 400 years. And in line with what you’re suggesting, it is also possible that present versions would again be described as “not perfect” 400 years from now.

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         1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 14, 2015 at 7:37 am

            Eugene,
            The KJV is a translation. All translations have errors. The autographs were God-breathed, not the copies. The role of textual criticism is to determine the correct manuscripts. The KJV translators did not have access to all the copies available today. While there translation was excellent it was not perfect (no version is, i.e., NASB, NIV, NET, etc.).

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      2. Tommy October 10, 2015 at 11:59 pm

         So you don’t think our God is big enough to preserve his word. Remember he said lo I come in the volume of the book not books.
         If its not the KJV which book is it? Our God is not a God of confusion.

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         1. doctrine Post authorOctober 11, 2015 at 8:07 am

            Tommy,
            The passsage you quote is Hebrews 10.7. That passage referred to the Old Testament. Hebrews was written to Jews, so the OT was their Bible. God has preserved His word. But the doctrine of inspiration is that only the autographs (the original writings) are God-breathed. God has preserved the integrity of the originials by providing thousands of reliable manuscripts and copies. The KJV is a sound translation but it is not without error. No Biblical case can be made that it is perfect. To try and do so goes against what God has revealed.

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            1. Tommy October 11, 2015 at 10:43 pm

               Doc, I understand what you are saying and a lot of people believe the same way you do, textual criticism. With over 100 different versions of the bible today (English and other languages) people are confused and don’t know which book is the preserved Word of God, (hence) satan has accomplished his goal, confusion. I believe this is why the body of Christ isn’t in one accord and have all things common. I have included a link here doc. and would appreciate your input on this. Really appreciate your insight on scripture doc. keep up the good work.The link is ,
               http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/bible-teachings/the-witness-and-the-record.htm

               Reply ↓
               1. doctrine Post authorOctober 12, 2015 at 1:32 pm

                  Tommy,
                  I do not think the author makes a convincing case. The Bible has a “two witness” principle but I do not think it applies in the way the author is trying to make it apply. One may disagree with some modern translations, which are based upon the “critical text” but I think it has to be on the basis of textual criticism. Textual criticism has certain assumptions one may also challenge. At the end of the day, God has put into effect a “two witness” rule in that He repeats passages. So, by comparing Scripture with Scripture one can get reliable doctrine.

                  Reply ↓
9. Saved Forever January 20, 2014 at 12:27 pm

   What are all of your thoughts on the Roman Road and compare it to 1 cor. 15:1-4 please

   Reply ↓
   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 21, 2014 at 7:33 am

      1 Corinthians 15.1-4 is the clearest expression of Paul’s gospel. Romans is the clearest expression of the faith + 0 aspect of that gospel and man’s need of it.

      Reply ↓
10. William January 29, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    Did Jesus ever make a reference of Paul in His earthly ministry? I think maybe so. Paul described himself as “Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints,..” Eph 3:8, and “For I am the least of the apostles,..” 1 Cor 15:9. Paul never seemed to overcome the fact that he was a brutal persecutor of those early Jewish believers that Jesus was the promised one of Israel, their Messiah.

    Jesus states something peculiar in Matt 11:11 when speaking of John the Baptist. “ Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” Matt 11:11 (emp added)

    It certainly indicates here that whoever claims to be the least in the Kingdom is greater than John the Baptist. This is how Paul repeatedly described himself. Am I reading too much into this?

    Next to Jesus I consider Paul the greatest man to ever live.

    I cannot thank you enough for this website!

    William

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 30, 2014 at 9:52 am

       William,
       Thank you and interesting thought. For my money, like you, Paul is THE great man apart from the Lord Himself. Look forward to meeting and thanking him.

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    2. Becky February 10, 2015 at 6:54 am

       Wow, what a catch! Paul said, Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ……..ive actually looked for “signs” of Paul in the four gospels but never saw this. Thanks so much.

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       1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 10, 2015 at 7:43 am

          Thanks, Becky.

          Reply ↓
    3. Maggie July 28, 2016 at 8:51 am

       William,
       What a finding. I never made the connection and now I just did. Thank you for sharing Matt 11:11. I believe that our risen Lord Jesus chose Paul as the apostle of the gentile and so grateful for Paul’s ministry. Faith + 0 = Grace

       .

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11. Saved Forever February 3, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Was everyone saved by faith alone throughout the whole bible or did they had to do animal sacrifices to cover the sins?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 3, 2014 at 4:20 pm

       The idea of salvation by faith alone was unknown until Paul (apparent exception: Abraham). How one was saved before Paul’s clear statement (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) is rather difficult to determine. The record is unclear. It seems a Jew under the Law had to offer animal sacrifices and believe that they covered his sin. Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep the Law for eternal life. Jesus saw the faith of the lame man and told him he was forgiven. Peter, Mary, were saved by believing in the identity of Christ–that He was the Messiah, the Son of God. Water baptism was also required according to Mark 1.4, 16.16; Acts 2.38, 22.16. Only from Paul’s revelation from the ascended Lord do we learn that salvation for us is by faith alone in the death and resurrection of Christ.

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       1. Saved Forever February 4, 2014 at 12:44 am

          So everyone from adam and eve in the garden they are clothed by god because god killed and animal and animal sacrifices all the way through until Paul mystery from Ascended Jesus?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 4, 2014 at 8:16 am

             Please see my article: https://doctrine.org/faith-and-works-in-james/.

             Reply ↓
             1. LB May 10, 2017 at 3:32 pm

                Your replies throughout this page make it appear as if you are very arrogant, which is not a quality one finds in true Christian leaders. Your wording is so self assured – as if you clearly believe you know all the answers. As humility is an essential trait of a God-follower, please try to adjust the tone. I believe you are relying too much upon the works the theologians who preceded you for interpretation of the scriptures, rather than allowing them to speak for themselves. No where in the Bible does any writer imply, much less state, that water baptism was a work. It was always an act of submission. Baptism is an act of humility (think of Naaman); a burial of the old self. Throughout Acts water baptism was the means by which believers demonstrated their decision to become a Christ-follower, and they were promised the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide them. Paul himself repented immediately, but in Acts 22:16 he says his sins were not washed away until he was immersed in water three days later.

                Reply ↓
                1. doctrine Post authorMay 10, 2017 at 4:34 pm

                   LB,
                   Water baptism has ended. It is no longer a Christian practice. Read 1 Corinthians 1.14-17. What is important is proclaiming the gospel. By the time Paul wrote the Ephesians water baptism had ended as a legitimate Christian practice. He stated there was one baptism (Ephesians 4.5). Which baptism is greater: baptism done by man (water baptism) or baptism done by God (spiritual baptism)? See 1 Corinthians 12.13; Romans 6.3-4. Paul was saved under the gospel of kingdom in which water baptism was required for salvation. Paul’s gospel is that one is saved by believing Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. If arrogance is believing the Scriptures, I plead guilty.

                   Reply ↓
                   1. Brandon May 23, 2017 at 10:42 pm

                      LB,

                      I do not find that Don seems arrogant. He is really humble and patient. Of course he is human, but I admire how he has patiently reviewed and answered most comments so far.

                      Don,

                      Keep up the good work bro. We are proud of you. We will keep praying for you here.

                      Regards,

                      Brandon.

                      Reply ↓
          2. Michael DeWitt March 11, 2017 at 5:44 pm

             Read Hebrews for a great explanation of this, but keep in mind it was written to Jews still practising Law.

             Reply ↓
12. kevin February 26, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    If the 12 or (the nation of israel)didn’t know anything about death and ressurection of christ? Why then it was foretold on Isaiah 53. It clearly states that jews were aniticipating the coming of their messiah and that he will fulfill what was prophesied?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 26, 2014 at 7:53 pm

       Kevin,
       Isaiah 53 is the only OT passage that deals with the Messiah’s work regarding sin. In contrast, hundreds of passages deal with the establishment of the earthly kingdom and Israel’s preeminence. Read Luke 1-2 and notice the emphasis: kingdom vs. sin. What were they looking for? When Jesus explicitly spoke of His death and resurrection, the 12 had no clue what He was talking about. Why? God kept it hidden (Luke 18.31-34).

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13. kevin February 27, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    If the twelve were directed to preach only to the jews as Matthew 10:5-6 says? why then on mark16:15-16 jesus said what he said? Could you please give me a clearer understanding on how to make out of both verses? And also I read faith and works in james solving the problem, I understand that faith alone is necessary for believers to be save,and enter heaven. I don’t see any verses on old testament that believers entered heaven. Is their salvation a physical one?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 27, 2014 at 7:58 pm

       Kevin,
       See Acts 1.8 and Acts 8.1. The 12 were to go to Gentiles after Israel. This presumed Israel would repent. A number of OT verses state Gentiles would be blessed by Israel and Jews will fulfill this role in the Messianic kingdom (see Zechariah 8.20-23). OT believers had no concept of dying and going to heaven. That is why you find no verses about it. Believers in the OT went to paradise, a.k.a. Abraham’s bosom (cf. Luke 16.22). This is where Jesus went as the creed says, “He descended into hell.” In His resurrection He emptied hell (Paradise) and took them to heaven to await resurrection. Dying and going to heaven is a Pauline doctrine.

       Reply ↓
       1. Raphael January 20, 2015 at 2:22 pm

          “hell (Paradise)”? Please explain?

          All that I am aware of, is that the word “hell” is not always used in scripture as we understand the meaning of it to be (Lake of fire)…but that there was also a physical place called “Hell” (The city dump where the dogs gnashed their teeth, I think) and the “waiting room” space (perhaps cloud of witnesses). Is this what you are referring to, Paradise being translated into the word “Hell” in NT scriptures?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 20, 2015 at 3:18 pm

             Raphael,
             Before Jesus’ resurrection hell was divided into two areas: paradise (the place Jesus descended) and a place of torment. See Luke 16. The place of torment will be swallowed up by the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20). Paradise will be the entire earth and in heaven.

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14. Gilly10 March 2, 2014 at 3:38 am

    Jesus Christ said this “This gospel of the KINGDOM shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come (Matthew 24:14)’. However, Paul said this “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! (Galatians 1:8).” I would like to know what are your thoughts about these two verses? Also, based on these two verses what should we do, preach the gospel of the kingdom or the gospel of grace?

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 2, 2014 at 1:46 pm

       Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4 is the only valid gospel today. The gospel of the kingdom was to believe Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God and be baptized. No cross, no resurrection. It will again be preached, just as Jesus said, before the end, for in those days, the issue will be who is the true God–the Antichrist or Jesus Christ.

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       1. Vanessa July 25, 2015 at 4:30 am

          Does that then mean if the Kingdom Gospel is preached today the person preaching it is accursed. Often I tend to need things spelt out for me. I also noted you seem to support a gap between the rapture and the start of the tribulation. I find that interesting as I also support a lengthy gap. Might I enquire as to why you say this.?
          Thank you Don.

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          1. doctrine Post authorJuly 25, 2015 at 8:26 am

             Vanessa,
             The only gospel for today is Paul’s gospel, that Christ died for our sins and arose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). If one proclaims another gospel it most likely means that person is not himself saved. Thus, by definition, he is accursed. When Paul wrote the situation was a bit different for they had transitioned from the gospel of the kingdom to the gospel of the grace of God. That became official at the Jerusalem Council and Peter affirmed it (Acts 15.11). As for the gap, that is speculation. I cannot prove it. But Satan is the master imitator and counterfeiter. It makes sense that as the Lord spent 30 years preparing for His ministry, Satan will prepare His man for about the same time. After 30 years, people will have forgotten about the Rapture. During that time massive deception will take place as truth will be at an all time low. Reading Matthew 24, the thing Jesus kept warning about was deception. The other thing is that God moves slowly from our point of view. The apostles all thought the Lord would return in their lifetime. We look at prophetic events and think they will occur quickly after the Rapture. The Bible indicates a different reality. Once things start, they will happen fast. But getting there may take a while.

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             1. Jim October 2, 2015 at 3:53 pm

                Interesting thought regarding a gap of time between the rapture and the tribulation. A brother in Christ recently suggested consideration given in the book of Genesis, Joseph was given and received a “gentile” bride – before the 7 years of plenty, which were followed by the 7 years of famine. Might this be a picture pointing forward to Jesus also receiving His bride at the rapture? This would suggest a gap of at least 7 plentiful years between the rapture and the 7 year tribulation. Thoughts?

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                1. doctrine Post authorOctober 2, 2015 at 4:52 pm

                   Jim,
                   There may be plentiful years before the Tribulation but the “bride” is not the Church but Israel. The Church is the body of Christ. See my article, The Bride of Christ.

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       2. Sebastian November 3, 2016 at 1:40 pm

          “Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4 is the only valid gospel today.”

          Why then would Jesus commission so many men with different tongues to all nations of the gentiles if Saul was being expected to just co-opt this effort? Looks like Jesus was confused? I do not think so. I think that Saul co-opted the work while the disciples hesitated and tarried in Jerusalem. Saul was not sent by Jesus as he claims to be!

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2016 at 8:11 am

             Sebastian,
             When Jesus commissioned the Twelve, the Church, the body of Christ, was not in view. No OT prophecy indicated the Church. Jesus came to fulfill the OT covenant program, the promises God made to Israel. When Israel rejected the Messiah, God in His grace saved Paul to become the apostle of the Gentiles, the founder of the Church. The OT program indicated a repentant Israel would be the source of blessing Gentiles. Without this, God had no means of blessing Gentiles. Hence, Paul.

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             1. Janet October 21, 2018 at 4:38 pm

                This statement to Sebastian is your best statement, I finally get what you are saying, I still feel though that you are saying that Paul’s teachings are almost more important that Jesus’s teachings, and that seems to go against what I have always felt. But, I’m still learning and growing in my faith.

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                1. doctrine Post authorOctober 21, 2018 at 6:20 pm

                   Janet,
                   Everything Paul taught he received from the risen Christ. For example, read 1 Thessalonians 4.1-2.

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15. Reda March 22, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Thank you for this open dialogue. May God’s presence be sensed and experienced by all, and may God continue to reveal and clarify to us all. There seems to be this distinction between the gospel of the Kingdom versus the gospel of Grace. Would you consider that the word ‘Christ’ within the gospel of Grace simply encompass all that is within the gospel of the Kingdom? For who is the ‘Christ’ if not the recognition/admission/profession of the identity of Jesus. Maybe too simplistic, but if accepted, then it is no longer to choose one or the other, rather they fit together. A continuation if you may rather than a distinction.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 23, 2014 at 4:49 pm

       Reda,
       “Christ” is the Greek rendering of “Messiah,” or Anointed. This title primarily with relation to Israel but Paul also used it in writing Gentile churches. Both Israel and the Church have the same Savior. But what is distinctive is Paul’s revelation of Christ as “Head.” This was never revealed to Israel.

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16. Rodney March 31, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    I appreciate your clear well thought out articles. I have a question concerning the gospel preached after Acts 15. In Acts 21:20-24 we get an account where after Paul proclaims the great things God had done to the Gentiles through his ministry, James wants him to observe the myriads of Jews that are zealous of the Law and then to take a Jewish vow to prove to Jews that he doesn’t teach them to forsake the Law of Moses. Paul still seems to have a separate ministry to the Jews after Acts 15. Could the prohibition to preach any other gospel (Gal 1:8) mean only to Gentiles and that Peter and James could still preach the Kingdom gospel to the Jews?

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 1, 2014 at 7:41 am

       Rodney,
       Thank you. I don’t think so. Notice Peter’s words in Acts 15.11. See my article, The Great Hinge.

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       1. Rodney April 1, 2014 at 9:33 pm

          I see your point in the article. Your analysis is that only the gospel of grace was valid after Acts 15 so I am puzzled by James’ behavior in encouraging Jews to follow the law and coercing Paul to engage in a Jewish vow process in Acts 21. It seems Paul is going along because he states that he has “become all things to all men” (See 1 Cor 9:19-22). Apparently James could not shake loose of Judaistic practices and did not understand the concept of salvation apart from the works of the law. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this subject.

          Thank you for your time.

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          1. doctrine Post authorApril 1, 2014 at 9:51 pm

             Rodney,
             It appears that, as you wrote, James could not come to grips with Paul’s teachings even though they had come to an understanding in Acts 15. It was difficult (cf. 2 Peter 3.14-16). The Jews had been under the Law for 1,500 years and salvation had been on the basis of faith and works. Paul’s taught believers of his gospel were not under that Mosaic Law and that salvation was by faith alone. The most reasonable explanation for Paul’s behavior in Acts 21 was his great love for the Jews. The Lord had told Paul they would not listen to him but some lessons are learned the hard way. As a result, Paul ended up under house arrest–the prisoner of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 3.1). Paul finally learned his lesson.

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             1. drumbo February 3, 2016 at 12:40 am

                I love this response! It reminds me that all the people used by FATHER throughout history, were regular folks, imperfect humans..still prone to mistakes, misgivings, resistant to change at times, stubborn,,just like all of us..still very naturally human even given their sometimes “supernatural” situations. There’s a great many accounts that are as much for our admonishment to think things through and trust FATHER’s word, as there are to increase our faith no? Good thing HE loves us, and wants to save us all, because aren’t we all just a big ball of goofy sometimes? As well as containing an amazing account of HIS power in so many ways…there is a very human drama interwoven here for our benefit. Many lessons from FATHER or Jesus directly yes , and many lessons from our brothers and sisters who made some very human, and understandable adamic-natured mistakes at times. Just like today, everyone then wanted to be right, and HE worked with that side of their nature for our edification today…so who knows…some of the things and people we see today could end up in a scriptural reference later on in time… if indeed anything else gets written….lol. nice one Rodney and Doc!

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17. Dennis McLelland April 26, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Good article – you must study Les Feldick…

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 26, 2014 at 6:36 pm

       Thank you. Les is a great teacher.

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18. Ryan June 26, 2014 at 9:45 am

    So after reading the article i am still a little confused does Pauls teachings contradict those of Jesus and James?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 26, 2014 at 12:23 pm

       Ryan,
       If we look at what Jesus/James taught and what Paul taught as one program we have major contradictions. If we look at what Jesus/James taught and what Paul taught as separate programs the contradictions vanish. Paul got his information from the same Lord as the Twelve. But the Twelve and James were apostles of Israel. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles. My articles Faith and Works in James: Resolving the Problem and The Great Hinge may help in sorting this out.

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       1. Immanuel November 3, 2015 at 5:12 pm

          I’m fascinated by this. I’m trying to follow the pure message of Jesus, unadulterated by any other message. However, I’m intrigued to understand why information obtained from the same source (the Lord) would be different? Why would there be a Gospel for Jews and a different one for Gentiles? If they’re different they should be in two separate books and not presented as one and the same. It’s just confusing! We all know who likes confusion, don’t we?
          Correct if I’m wrong, but Luke insists in Acts 1 that after Jesus’ resurrection, there were still, always, and only the twelve apostles. The only person (as far as I can see) to say Paul is an apostle of Christ in the entire New Testament is Paul himself. We also find that Jesus says in John 5:31, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” If that is true of what Jesus claims, it must also be true of what Paul claims, surely? In fact, Jesus in Revelation 2:2 clearly agrees a self-serving claim to be His apostle is insufficient. Jesus commended the Ephesians for finding that those claiming to be apostles were not. Hence, in that case, there was only self-serving proof, and Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting that as sufficient proof. Thus, Paul’s claim to being an apostle suffers from being self-serving.
          I love Jesus and I want to be as close to Him as I can – as such I simply cannot follow anyone else but Him, regardless of what Paul says I should do.

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 3, 2015 at 7:30 pm

             Immanuel,
             The Twelve only had a ministry to Jews, never Gentiles. The Twelve accepted Paul’s apostleship. Peter, at the end of his life, directed believers not to the Twelve but to Paul. Peter agreed with Paul at the Jerusalem Council that from then on only Paul’s gospel was valid (Acts 15.11). Luke stayed with Paul throughout his journeys and was with him at the end. Paul’s apostleship was authenticated manyfold–by the Peter, Luke, and by the multitude of believers saved though his ministry. Apart from Paul there is NO Christianity.

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             1. Immanuel November 4, 2015 at 3:39 pm

                Hi Doctrine!
                I can find nowhere anything that supports the notion that the Twelve accepted Paul’s apostleship. “Multitude of believers” can’t in anyways be used as corroboration of Paul’s apostleship either. Paul acknowledges as much in 1 Corinthians 9:2 where he claims apostleship from the Corinthians rather than Peter or Luke or any other of the Twelve.

                The purpose of the Council of Jerusalem was primarily to address the issue related to the requirement of circumcision, as the author of Acts relates, but other important matters arose as well, as the Apostolic Decree indicates. The dispute was between those, such as the followers of the “Pillars of the Church,” led by James, who believed, following his interpretation of the Great Commission, that the Church must observe the Torah, i.e. the rules of traditional Judaism, and Paul who believed there was no such necessity. Note here that James is in complete agreement with Jesus – it’s Paul that is in dissent.
                At the Council, following advice offered by Simon Peter (Acts 15:7–11 and Acts 15:14), Barnabas and Paul gave an account of their ministry among the gentiles (Acts 15:12), and the apostle James quoted from the words of the prophet Amos (Acts 15:16–17, quoting Amos 9:11–12). James submitted a proposal, which was accepted by the Church and became known as the Apostolic Decree:
                “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath (Acts 15:19–21).
                So, Peter may have agreed with Paul but that’s not what the Council agreed. Further, the historicity of Luke’s account in Acts 15 has been strongly questioned on a number grounds so we shouldn’t place too much emphasis on it.
                Also note that the writer of Acts gives an account of a restatement by James and the elders in Jerusalem of the contents of the letter on the occasion of Paul’s final Jerusalem visit, immediately prior to Paul’s arrest at the temple, recounting: “When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.” (Acts 21:17–18, ESV) The elders then proceed to notify Paul of what seems to have been a common concern among Jewish believers, that he was teaching Diaspora Jewish converts to Christianity “to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.” It’s clear that James and the elders were in no way accepting of Paul’s apostleship and indeed they were concerned about what he was teaching converts.
                They remind the assembly that, “…as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.” In the view of some scholars, the reminder of James and the elders here is an expression of concern that Paul was not fully teaching the decision of the Jerusalem Council’s letter to Gentiles, particularly in regard to non-strangled kosher meat, which contrasts with Paul’s advice to Gentiles in Corinth, to “eat whatever is sold in the meat markets.”(I Corinthians 10:25)
                I guess what I’m saying is that if by Christian you mean “follower of Christ”, then yes, I am. If however you mean “follower of Paul”, then I’m not. And I’m very comfortable with that.

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                1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2015 at 7:31 pm

                   Immanuel,
                   There is one gospel by which men and women are saved–Paul’s gospel, which he received from the risen, glorified Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). To follow Christ, to obey Christ, starts by believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Apart from this, one is without hope, without Christ, and without eternal life. He has no part of Christ. Peter wrote at the end of his life that Paul’s writings were Scripture and told his readers to look to Paul for instruction (2 Peter 3.14-18). To reject Paul is to reject the risen, glorified Lord.

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                   1. Bobbi July 26, 2016 at 7:11 pm

                      Amen, doctrine.

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19. Jonathan Laughlin June 28, 2014 at 9:02 am

    Saul is a Pharisee. The “leavening” Jesus warned about was the same as SAUL (who happily witnesses Stephens murder…and approved another death sentence “in absence”). “Pauls gospel” is feel good garbage. I can rob you (SAUL ADMITS…hence the phrase ” robbing Peter to pay Paul) and promote lies, as long as it all eventually gets “God” some glory then all is peachy. Paul/Saul is Bull to the SH1T, and you would hafta be totally misled and naive to not realize that -if a guy contradicts Jesus Christ my Savior, -and usurps Peters appointed (by Jesus) position as aposltle to the Gentiles…then he (Paul/Saul the murderous Pharisee) should be deemed “Anti-Christ”, since he deliberately and consistently attempts to contaminate THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, no matter how stinking flowery and confusing the seed of Satan may be. God bless. :)

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 28, 2014 at 1:33 pm

       Jonathan,
       Jesus chose Peter and the other apostles in His earthly ministry. He chose Paul in His heavenly ministry (Acts 9.1-9; Galatians 1). Jesus and the Twelve ministered to Jews, not Gentiles. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11.13). Apart from Paul we have no gospel of grace (Acts 20.24) and no gospel of salvation. The Jerusalem church learned this gospel from Paul. Peter declared they were wrong and Paul was right (Acts 15.1, 5, 11). The gospel of Jesus Christ for today is Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Only by believing it is one saved.

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       1. Joe January 8, 2015 at 7:53 pm

          Jonathan,

          If I may add my two cents worth even Peter himself says to follow Paul , “even though it’s hard to understand” (paraphrase, so I shouldn’t use quotation marks I guess)…Second Peter chapter 2 vs 16 I think.

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          1. Ledger September 22, 2016 at 5:15 pm

             Why do all you Pauline worshipers, love to use Peter (one man) to valadate Paul, where are the 11? One mans agreement should not be enough.

             I believe there is a prophecy made by Jesus againt Peter. Because of Peter’s mistake in agreeing with Paul.

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             1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 22, 2016 at 7:31 pm

                Ledger,
                First, no one is a Paul worshipper. I’ve answered these objections many times. In each case, I get silence from objectors. If you are right, Christianity does not exist and you should rip the NT out of you Bible and go play bingo. It makes me wonder if you have ever opened a Bible to read it. Luke, James, Mark, John, Peter, Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, etc. all attested to and recognized Paul’s apostleship, not just Peter. Peter wrote his Jewish readers shortly before his death that Paul’s letters were Scripture (2 Peter 3.15-16). If Paul haters are to be believed one must get rid of the gospels of Mark, Luke, John, Luke’s Acts, James’ letter, Peter’s letters, John’s letters and Revelation. What is left is Matthew and Jude. If Paul is what you claim, these writers were false because they loved and accepted Paul. Furthermore, if Paul was what you claim they were false because they did not warn believers about him. We know false teachers existed in the early Church for Paul named several. If Paul was this master henchman as you claim, does it make sense these writers would not identify him by name? Like Kora who rebelled against God when he opposed Moses, you have rebelled against the Christ who chose Paul. You are travelling a road which leads to destruction.

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       2. Vanessa November 3, 2015 at 9:41 pm

          The gracious manner in which you reply to others shows us that you walk in love. I battle with anger when I read peoples remarks. Take care.

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2015 at 7:34 am

             Vanessa,
             Thanks for the encouragement. Believe me, I do get angry. But the battle is the Lord’s.

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             1. Fernando June 9, 2016 at 1:59 pm

                Hi doctrine, i read ur page and it explained alot but my question has to do with what paul said in romans 2:13 it says ( for it is not by hearing the law that people are put right with god, but by doing what the law commands.) But earlier he says in romans 1:17 (for the gospel reveals how god put people right with himself it is through faith beginning to end. As the scripture says, “the person who is put right with god through faith shall live”. My question is why does it seem like he is saying two different things in regards to salvation? and my other question is where does it say in any scripture where the person is put right with god through faith if that was uncharted territory for scripture and exclusively from paul.

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                1. doctrine Post authorJune 9, 2016 at 8:07 pm

                   Fernando,
                   If you keep reading the passage you will see Paul was constructing his argument to demonstrate that no one kept the Law. That was the point he was driving home. Since no one can, justification must come by faith. I’m not sure I follow your other question. Paul made it clear in passages such as Romans 3.21-22, 26, 4.4-5, etc. that justification was by faith alone. We do not find such teaching with Jesus or any of the 12. Salvation by faith alone was unknown before God revealed this to Paul. See my article, Faith vs. Works in James: Resolving the Problem for a more in depth study of faith and works.

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                   1. Fernando June 11, 2016 at 2:47 pm

                      Well my other question was when paul said in romans 1:17 “the person who is put right with god through faith shall live”. Where in the scripture does it say that or was he quoting his own scripture? And my new question is if we r justified by faith only meaning our actions cant make us lose r salvation can you explain romans 8:6 where it says “to be controlled by the human nature results in death to be controlled by the spirt results in life and peace.” Also romans 8:12 talks about it as well.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorJune 11, 2016 at 3:15 pm

                         Fernando,
                         Paul quoted Habakkuk 2.4. Paul was writing believers about living the Christian life in Romans 8. He was not talking about gaining or keeping salvation. He was writing that since sin brings death we should not to pursue a life that causes death because we are different people. We have life and should live according to our position in Christ of everlasting life. Since we have life, we “owe” Christ our allegiance (Romans 8.12). He was talking about experiential life, life in Christ, not about obtaining (or losing) eternal life.

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                         1. Fernando June 11, 2016 at 3:35 pm

                            Soo paul was talking about spirtual death? Like our relationship with the lord jesus will be effected by this and we will become carnal christians? Thats what he meant by death? Pertaining to growth?

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                            1. doctrine Post authorJune 11, 2016 at 4:05 pm

                               Fernando,
                               Yes.
                   2. Michael Robinson June 17, 2016 at 7:51 pm

                      When Jesus said go and preach this gospel to all nations wouldn’t that include gentiles.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorJune 18, 2016 at 9:49 am

                         Michael,
                         Yes. The OT prophetic plan was that Gentiles would be blessed through Israel. But for this to occur, Israel had to accept the Messiah, the source of all blessing. The 12 never had a ministry to Gentiles because Israel refused to repent. So even as late as Acts 8, the 12 refused to leave Jerusalem and Acts 11.19 we read that witnessing was done only to Jews.

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    2. Gerald "Marty" Nichols, Jr. July 20, 2014 at 5:24 am

       J.L.-
       I note that “Doctrine” answered your unseemly remarks in a gentle spirit, which is one sign he is on the right side of the disagreement. You miss the entire message of the Word of God by dissing Paul, whom Christ chose to speak truth to our time under grace. What is scary for you and your ilk is that there is no other path to heaven and eternity with Christ than that marked out by Paul.

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20. Eric August 15, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Jesus preached justification by faith mostly. Not by works which any man can boast. Rather, faith in the bronze snake that Moses held up in the wilderness on a pole, so that all who look upon the snake will receive eternal live. Jesus is that snake on a pole. Get it?
    Those who eat Jesus will live because of Jesus. You search the Scriptures because in them you believe you have eternal life and those very Scriptures point to Jesus (the bronze snake on a pole), but you are unwilling to come to Jesus so that he can give you eternal life. Give you, get it? As in gift.
    Stop putting yourself between a rock and a hard place. Eternal life is easy.
    Moses put God between a rock and a hard place.
    Moses made a bet with God that God could not strike Moses dead before Moses got the children of Israel across the parted Red Sea. Moses held up his staff to try and make it easy for God, but Moses still won. Get it?

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 15, 2014 at 4:59 pm

       Eric,
       Scriptures are needed to support your point. Jesus operated under the Mosaic Law. See Matthew 19.16-17. What did Jesus tell the man? We find no record of Jesus nor the Twelve preaching justification by faith alone. Jesus and the Twelve preached faith + works. Salvation by faith alone was a new revelation Paul received from the risen Lord. See Acts 15.1, 5. The Twelve knew nothing of this doctrine as late as 51 A.D. This is why they argued with Paul. See my article, The Great Hinge.

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21. Annie August 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    At least 2 of your points are wrong!

    Jesus: 6. Operated under the Mosaic Law

    Jesus did not “operate” under the law of Moses. In Luke 16:16 he tells us that it was over and done with by the time of John and that many people were forcing their way into the Kingdom but it was oh so hard for anyone to drop their old Mosaic ways (sacrifices and the rest ofthe ritualistic religious voodoo). Many prophets, 1 Samuel and even a couple of psalms complain that repentance and good justice is all that God requires. Jesus would not have preached the end of the old ways if he was not observing the new way (his commandments) himself. That should put an end to the argument that Jesus perfectly kept the law of Moses and hence was not of the new system of grace. Just look at what grace is – the unmerited favour or mercy of God. That is what repentance and forgiveness is all about. Jesus preached grace when he said “be merciful….”

    Paul: 4. Preached faith alone as necessary for salvation

    Nope. 2Cor7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance unto salvation.from acts repentance + deeds. I believe Paul was a clever clogs whom was misunderstood by most even to this day.

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    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 22, 2014 at 1:36 pm

       Annie,
       Jesus referred constantly to the Law and the Prophets throughout His ministry. Matthew 5.17-19, 7.12, 8.4, 19.16-19 are just a few examples of how He was subject to it. The animal sacrifices were hardly “ritualistic religious voodoo.” They were pictures that declared the seriousness of sin and that death, and that the shedding of blood, was required for its forgiveness (Hebrews 9.22). God spent hundreds of years teaching this point so that when He offered His Son it would be understood (1 Peter 1.18-19). Paul wrote believers. When he referred to repentance it was in terms of sanctification as is the case of 2 Corinthians 7.10. Only one time did Paul write of repentance in reference to unbelievers: Romans 2.4. Salvation is a process: justification, sanctification, and glorification. To interpret a passage we must understand its context. In this case Paul was exhorting the Corinthians to “salvation” in the sense of their sanctification–living godly lives. The gospel is simple. It is believing Christ died for our sins and arose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Once believed, the other things can began to make sense.

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22. michael September 13, 2014 at 3:47 am

    You say paul unlike the other twelve was an apostle to the gentiles. But wasn’t Jesus last comandment to his twelve for them to go out into the whole earth and preach the gospel. I agree with paul when his words are inagreement Jesus or when he is in agreement with GODs charactor.

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    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 13, 2014 at 11:34 am

       Michael,
       Yes. Throughout the OT were prophecies of God blessing Gentiles (the nations) through Israel. Jesus told the 12 in Acts 1.8 to start in Jerusalem and then spread out. Peter preached to the whole house of Israel (Acts 2.36). But before they could go to Gentiles, Israel had to repent and trust in their Messiah. All Israel had to repent. They refused. This is why the 12 could not fulfill Jesus’ command to go to the nations. But God in His mercy raised up Paul, apart from the 12, to go to Gentiles. That was the beginning of Christianity. In Acts 3 Peter promised if they repented God would send Jesus to them. This is what Jesus had declared in Matthew 23.37-39. While that generation of Jews failed, a future one will succeed. All Israel will be saved as Paul wrote in Romans 11.26 for all Israel will repent.

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       1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 5, 2015 at 12:33 pm

          How could Peter have preached to the whole House of Israel, when most of Israel was scattered among the Nations, beyond the borders of Judea? Was this not the purpose of the Great Commission; to take the Gospel to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, who were scattered among the Nations?

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 5, 2015 at 2:06 pm

             Michael,
             All 12 tribes were represented to hear Peter’s message at Pentecost. The Lord gave the geographic priority of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the nations (Acts 1.8).

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             1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 5, 2015 at 7:05 pm

                There were only Jews and Converts to Judaism who heard Peter’s message. Acts 2:5,11 All Israelites are not Jews.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 5, 2015 at 7:20 pm

                   Michael,
                   Jews and Israelites are the same. See יְהוּדִי.

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                   1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 6, 2015 at 10:13 am

                      You are aware that after David’s death, Israel separated into two Kingdoms; the Kingdom/House of Israel in the North (10 tribes), and the Kingdom/House of Judah in the south (2 tribes plus the Levites that sided with them). The House of Israel was removed by the Assyrians and have yet to return. The House of Judah (Jews) were removed over 200 years later, but were allowed to return, after 70 years of exile. It is to the offspring of these Jews and their Jewish Converts who Peter spoke to.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 6, 2015 at 10:42 am

                         Michael,
                         Representatives of the 10 tribes moved south to Judah. Shortly after the kingdom split, Israel outnumbered Judah. But as time went on Judah became larger than Israel. The center of Judaism was the Temple. True believers from the 10 tribes moved south. Peter spoke to all 12 tribes at Pentecost. James wrote to all 12 tribes (James 1.1 cf. 1 Peter 1.1). The whole house–Israel and Judah–all 12 tribes–were identifiable and known in Jesus’ day. For the future, all 12 tribes are identified in Revelation 7.

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    2. Jasen April 8, 2018 at 11:37 am

       Micheal if I may comment I think it’s important to understand that the gospel at that time of Jesus’ statement was the kingdom gospel not Paul’s gospel. When I realized this, Jesus great commission statement finally made sense to me. This kingdom gospel was to be to the Jew first then to the Gentile. The Jews failed to repent and God introduced a new program- Paul’s gospel of grace. This is how I understand it as learned from Don.

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23. Paul September 14, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Don, it is refreshing to see that there are those out their of the same understanding. I wrote a similar article, and it is posted at midactstruths.com if you are interested.

    Paul

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    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 15, 2014 at 7:38 pm

       Thanks, Paul. Good article.

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24. Sue September 18, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Hi Don,

    Could you help me with a thought.
    If the Law of Moses ended with John ( Luke 16:16 ) why did Jesus still talk and teach about the Law.
    Was those under the Gospel of the Kingdom still obliged to adhere to the Law.

    Thanks

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    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 18, 2014 at 9:50 am

       Sue,
       Good question. Jesus was making a distinction between the message of the prophets and the message of John. John proclaimed the kingdom of God was near–the Messiah had arrived. John could have fulfilled Malachi’s prophecy of Elijah if the nation had repented. We know the Law did not end because Jesus kept it, e.g., when He healed a leper He told him to show himself to the priest as the Law required. The 12 went to the Temple after the resurrection and continued to minister under the Law. Even as late as Acts 15 the Jerusalem assembly was teaching that to be saved one had to keep the Law. And note James’ words to Paul in Acts 21.17-21. See Matthew 11.11-19. This passage gives insight into what Jesus meant.

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25. William October 5, 2014 at 12:16 am

    I find myself asking one simple question which I put to you, would I not be the same Christian I am currently without adhering or even listening to Paul’s letters? In other words would I be any less of a devout Christian or close to the Lord in prayer and walk in my faith in this life on Earth? I ask sincerely. God Bless all here.

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    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 5, 2014 at 1:12 pm

       William,
       Paul was the founder of Christianity. Our Christian doctrine comes from Paul for it was to him that the risen Lord revealed truths He had not given the Twelve (Romans 15.8). Apart from Paul, we have no knowledge of the Church, the body of Christ, the equality of Jew and Gentile, how to live the Christian life, the Rapture, the blinding of Israel, etc. See my articles, Paul: Chief of Sinners? and Paul’s “Mystery” for more on this.

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       1. Patrick K.B. October 21, 2014 at 6:44 am

          Jesus and Paul preached about the same king- which is Christ and the same subject- which is the church.

          Of course- the grace that Paul preached about only became available when the king of the kingdom-Christ-died on the cross and rose again.
          So definitely- it wouldn’t have made sense for Jesus to preach extensively about a grace he was yet to pay for.
          I can’t believe it when I see theologians trying hard to prove that the gospel of the kingdom is different from the gospel of grace.
          John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preached about the kingdom of heaven.
          They were only laying the foundation for what Paul would preach.
          Let us not forget that Paul met Jesus himself on the way to Damascus and it was Jesus who taught him about the grace of salvation.
          How does one receive the grace of salvation- by believing that Jesus died to pay for our sins and believing that he rose from the dead and most imp0rtantly-submitting to his kingship or lordship. This is where the 2 supposedly different gospels connect.
          In Matt 7:21 implied that those who receive the free gift of salvation but do not submit to the kingship of Christ in their lives might lose their free gift of salvation in the end.
          Jesus knew that we would subject this particular verse to all sorts of interpretations.
          So he gave us a clue that indeed- he was referring to people who would receive the free gift of salvation- which we refer to as the gospel of grace-
          See Matt 7:22 The signs listed here are mainly the signs that follow those who believe in Jesus- those who receive the gospel of grace-(Mark 16:15-17).
          Yet many of such people will lose their salvation because they did not live their lives in subjection to the king of the kingdom.
          Christ is not just the king of Israel- he is the king of kings.
          He is also the king of the church.
          The two gospels are the same.
          We receive the grace of forgiveness through the blood of the king-so we are saved.
          But in the process- we receive a new spirit and empowerment (also called grace) to live a life of subjection to the king of the kingdom.
          Both gospels are the same-one is the gateway (the gospel of grace) and the other is the path behind the gate- (the gospel of the kingdom)- the narrow gate and the narrow path.

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          1. doctrine Post authorOctober 21, 2014 at 8:54 am

             Patrick,
             The problem with these views is that they have no Scriptural support. Jesus ministered to Jews, not Gentiles. Everything in the Gospels is addressed to Jews. The same is true in early Acts. If the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace are the same, why did the Twelve not go to Gentiles? We do not find Gentiles being evangelized until after the salvation of Paul. According to the OT program, Jews would accept their Messiah and then and only then evangelize Gentiles. This is what Jesus taught and explains what he said in Matthew 10.5-6. The gospel of the kingdom’s focus is upon the identity of Christ. The gospel of grace’s focus is the work of Christ. Jesus is never declared to be the King of the Church. He is declared the King of the Jews. For the Church, He is our Lord and Head. If we are to be faithful Christians we must be careful students and understand not only what the Scriptures state but what they do not state.

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             1. Lindiwe Jele November 23, 2015 at 7:26 am

                hi, What about the man from Ethiopia, was he not a gentile? I think he was the first gentile to be preached by Phillip.

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                1. doctrine Post authorNovember 23, 2015 at 7:45 am

                   Lindiwe Jele,
                   The Ethiopian was a Jew. He had come to Jerusalem to worship and was reading Isaiah. No Gentile would be doing this.

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                   1. nathan February 12, 2016 at 12:06 am

                      How about the Samaritan woman? Jesus preached to her and her whole village. Were Samaritans Jews also?

                      thanks.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 12, 2016 at 7:36 am

                         Nathan,
                         The Samaritans were Jews who had intermarried with Gentiles. They had a low reputation among Jews for this. This began with Jeroboam’s revolt in taking the 10 tribes to Samaria.

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26. Mark November 17, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Hello. You mentioned in your article that the one baptism referred to by Paul is Holy Spirit baptism. Explain the only 2 times that Holy Spirit baptism is administered in the scriptures (Acts 2 & 11), it was not done through the hands of men and also it was done as a fulfillment of a promise made. Baptism in water is the only way another man can administer it. That is the one baptism for today. Paul did baptize, he just didn’t administer it to everyone who heard him preach. His main point was the apparent divisions starting to form due to whom some might have been baptized by. He was telling them their focus was to remain in Christ, not on who was doing the baptizing. Compare to John 4 where Jesus baptized more disciples than John but didn’t actually do the baptizing Himself.

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 17, 2014 at 8:44 pm

       Mark,
       The baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs when one believes Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). That is what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 12.13. That baptism places the believer into the Church, the body of Christ. Paul declared Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1.14-17). We have no record he administered water baptism again. Paul wrote the Ephesians only one baptism was valid, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4.5).

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27. Mark November 18, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Thanks for responding. You made my point. Why did Paul baptize at all if it’s of no consequence? You say it was not mentioned again. How many times makes it a valid point? Once, maybe 50 times. In God’s word it does not matter the amount of times something is spoken, it matters that we obey.

    Which baptism placed those in the church (assembly) who received the word in Acts 2:41?

    Who did the adding to the assembly in Acts 2:47?

    There is only one way.

    You made a comment that “God created the Church, the body of Christ, beginning with Paul.” If this was the case, explain how Paul had persecuted the church (assembly) before his conversion (Acts 22 & 1 Cor. 15:9)?

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 18, 2014 at 11:24 am

       Mark,
       We have a progressive revelation. Everything does not occur at once. Water baptism began with John the Baptist and continued for a period of time. It was required for salvation (Mark 16.16; Acts 2.38) under the gospel of the kingdom. This is what is occurring in Acts 2. Under Paul’s gospel of grace, water baptism was practiced for a while but never required for salvation. The word for “church” is ἐκκλησία. It simply means a group of people. The “church” Saul persecuted were Jewish believers. They were not the Church, the body of Christ; God had not yet revealed this. The Church, the body of Christ, is an organism composed of those who have believed Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) in which Jew and Gentile are equal in Christ. Peter knew nothing of this as is evident on the day of Pentecost. That revelation came by the ascended Lord to Paul. Only Paul wrote about the Church as Christ’s body. Peter, James, John, Jude never mention it and knew nothing of it or of salvation by faith alone until they learned it from Paul (see Acts 15) and my article, The Great Hinge.

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28. courtney king November 18, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    I just read your article Jesus vs. Paul and thank you so much for wonderful article it is outstanding and may the the Lord bless you and all your house

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 18, 2014 at 1:01 pm

       Courtney,
       Thanks! May the Lord bless you also.

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29. Yohanan November 27, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Thanks for this article. I am so greatly blessed because some things are made clear and this confirmed the simplicity we have in Christ under His grace.

    I am a gentile believer who is a babe in Christ. I technically believed in the gospel of Paul when I was still in the process of conversion. But because I was not yet mature in Christ and still learning and growing in the grace of the Lord, I was easily led astray of some of the teachings of the Hebrew Roots Movement. Because of this, I was “trying to keep” the 10 commandments; even the 7th day Sabbath rest and was subject to apostasy.

    But because of His great mercy and the richness of His grace, Christ saved me from their teachings that brought condemnation to me every time I failed to keep it.

    And this testimony is for God’s glory, honor and adoration which are for Him alone forever. Amen.

    BTW, thanks Don for this article many people will be enlightened with this. God bless brother!

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    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 27, 2014 at 12:48 pm

       Yahanan,
       Thanks. May the Lord continue to guide you. Stay with Paul–the Apostle of Grace, the Apostle of the Gentiles. He is for us what Abraham and Moses were for Israel.

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30. Mark December 18, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    WOW! What an eye opener! I’ve never seen it this way before. How clearer can it get? God bless you. But I have a question: When Christ comes again to the earth will we ‘believing Gentiles’ come with Him?

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 18, 2014 at 3:59 pm

       Mark,
       Thank you. We have no explicit information about our being with the Lord when He goes forth to war. I hope so. What a day!

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31. Mark December 19, 2014 at 5:14 am

    Yes indeed – what a day! Wow! I’m so so grateful for this blog. One thing out of many things I’ve gained from the articles here is that it has made the bible as simple as ABC – everything in its place. No mix ups. No confusion. I also love the way you back them up with RELEVANT scriptures. How can some people argue with stuffs like these? Please continue the good work brother Don. Thanks!

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2014 at 7:43 am

       Mark,
       Thank you for your kind words. I’m glad what I’ve written is helpful.

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32. Joe December 20, 2014 at 9:56 am

    How does John 3:16 fit into Paul’s (our) gospel? If John wrote his letter after the death of Paul (assumed) he would have known of Paul’s gospel (I assume). Some say John’s gospel was written late in the first century….Paul was gone by late 60’s… John 3:16 does not mention the resurrection…..”Whoever believes in him” sounds like the Kingdom gospel. (re: believes in his name)

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 20, 2014 at 10:16 am

       Joe,
       Paul completed the canon of Scripture according to Colossians 1.25 (πληρῶσαι τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ). John wrote to Jews; his gospel was the gospel of the kingdom.

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       1. Joe December 20, 2014 at 7:03 pm

          Thank you.

          Yes, John wrote to the Jews but John’s writings were put down on paper ( or what ever was used to write on)after Paul’s death. Why would John continue to perpetuate the Kingdom gospel? Surely John knew of Paul’s message. –I’m assuming John’s writings were in the 80’s or 90’s AD. Paul’s death was before 70 A.D.

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          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 20, 2014 at 8:22 pm

             Joe,
             John wrote his works before Paul completed the canon in 68 A.D. 2 Timothy was the last book written. While Peter’s words at the Jerusalem Council affirmed Paul’s gospel was the only gospel, James’ words in Acts 21.15-25 make one wonder how much he understood of Paul’s ministry. Remember also, John was writing history. He recorded Jesus’ words to Nicodemus while the kingdom gospel was valid.

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             1. Joe December 21, 2014 at 10:15 am

                As per Eusebius:

                Late first and early second century church father, Polycarp, learned at the feet of John. Irenaeus learned from Polycarp. Irenaeus indicates late first century writing of John’s writing Revelation during the reign of Domitian (95-96 A.D.) Irenaeus writes that John wrote his gospel while living in Ephesus where he was addressing the scourge of Gnosticism. (late first century)

                I am a I Cor 15:1-4 believer but from my study only Preterism, Les Feldick (and now this site) take the early date. Something seems amiss.

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                1. doctrine Post authorDecember 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm

                   Joe,
                   Two major points militate against Eusebius. The first is that it is inconceivable John would neglect mentioning the destruction of Jerusalem. The second is according to Paul’s statement in Colossians 1.25, he completed (πληρῶσαι τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ) the Scriptures (Colossians 1.25).

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33. Ralph December 28, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    I have an important question, but first…

    FINALLY. I have struggled with this issue of reconciling Jesus and Paul for the past year now. It seemed that until I found this article, no one was really being honest about how entirely different their gospels are. I felt confused and not sure how to share the gospel with others because I myself didn’t even understand it.

    So my question is, how do we deal with sin now? In order to be saved we simply believe Paul’s outline of salvation by faith/grace. However, what if we struggle with certain sins? What about 1 Corinthians 6:9? How do we now reconcile believing in Christ while also purging sin from our lives? What if we hate certain sins but keep doing it, like idolatry or adultery? I have a friend who is fornicating with his girlfriend, and when I rebuke him he admits it’s wrong but hold’s fast to “salvation by faith”.

    This is my second hurdle. Any help is greatly appreciated!

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 29, 2014 at 9:33 am

       Ralph,
       Read how Paul dealt with this issue. Paul told sinning believers to repent (cf. 2 Corinthians 7.9-10, 12.20-21). He recorded his own struggle with the power of the Adamic nature in Romans 7. My article, “Identification with Christ” might be helpful. As we have been saved by faith alone in the work of Christ, we are to live by faith. Salvation is instantaneous the moment we put our trust in the work that Christ died for us and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) but is also a process (sanctification). The final part of salvation is glorification in which we will receive a resurrection body which will be free of the Adamic nature.

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34. G Harris December 28, 2014 at 11:06 pm

    Are “strangers” considered Gentiles?… If so, then Isaiah 56 v 3-7 suggests that strangers can “join themselves to the Lord” and also instructs to “take hold of His covenant, love the NAME of the Lord, to be His servants” (and) “mine house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL people”. In my understanding, Jesus lived a perfect life by abiding to the commandments of God the Father. He magnifies the law in the sermon on the mount Matthew ch 5-7….. By stating that Paul came to bring his gospel to save the gentiles suggests that before Jesus arrived, no gentile or “stranger” could have salvation…. If we believe that we all came from Adam and Eve then really,.. is no difference between Jew, Gentile, or any other division of peoples in the whole world. I believe some of Paul’s doctrine to be true however, a little leaven works it’s way through the whole loaf and that’s why we have these discussion boards with each seeker having their own opinion and translation… This is sad. There is One God (Genesis 1 v 1), One Judge (John 5 v 22) and one people (all from Adam and Eve). The entire Holy Bible is referring to Love/Hate, Good/Evil, Light/Darkness etc… The more we all try to “figure out” the meanings behind every little detail, the more separated we get (and the enemy loves it)…. Only God knows the heart of His people. Strive to do good, be the light, live Love, and God will find you..!

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 29, 2014 at 9:46 am

       G Harris,
       Some Gentiles joined themselves with Israel and were saved. We have the example of Rahab, Ruth, etc. We also have examples of Gentile salvation in Naaman, the Ninevites, etc. In the Old Testament one had to trust in the God of Israel (as opposed to the gods of the ancient near east, i.e., Dagon, Baal, etc.), to be saved. Everything in the OT centered upon Israel. God created this separation in his calling of Abraham. God created the Jewish people as a separate and separated race. They were to be different and to remain separate from the surrounding Gentile nations. Salvation during Jesus’ time on earth was based upon the “gospel of the kingdom”–believing He was the Messiah, the Son of God. In other words, it was based upon His identity. The gospel the glorified Lord communicated to Paul was different. It was the “gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20.24) and it focused upon the work of Christ–that He died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Keep these things separate and everything falls into place. Due to Israel’s rejection of their Messiah God has temporarily set them aside (nationally) and is building His Church, the body of Christ. When the Church is complete, God will remove it and once again focus upon Israel. Paul outlined this program in Romans 11 (see my article, “The Olive Tree”).

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       1. Ilya Petrenko May 22, 2018 at 1:24 pm

          So… the impression here is that israel is not the church?

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          1. doctrine Post authorMay 22, 2018 at 3:20 pm

             Ilya,
             Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church. No Scripture indicates Israel is the Church or vice versa. Israel is a term that always and only refers to the offspring of Jacob.

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35. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 16, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    The Law and The Prophets (wrongly called The Old Covenant/Testament) was considered to be the inerrant Word of God to the Messiah and His Apostles. Paul said he believed all things written in them to be true, but his writings prove otherwise. Paul represents a False Messiah, one who dismisses obedience to the Law of God. The Messiah and His Apostles make obedience to the Law of God a necessity, as the way of God’s Law is the only way that God’s Spirit will lead. So says the Law and The Prophets.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 17, 2015 at 9:55 am

       Michael,
       Apart from Paul’s gospel there is no salvation. Christ will judge mankind on the basis of Paul’s gospel, not the Law (Romans 2.16). God gave the Law to Israel, not the Church, not to Gentiles. In His earthly ministry, Jesus ministered to Israel, not to Gentiles. Not one Scripture supports the view that the Church is under the Mosaic Law.

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       1. Sebastian November 3, 2016 at 1:51 pm

          “Christ will judge mankind on the basis of Paul’s gospel, not the Law (Romans 2.16).”

          How is it possible that murderers will gain admission to heaven because they “confess” Christ? Is this enough to, in reality satisfy all good conscience? Please explain.

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          1. doctrine Post authorNovember 4, 2016 at 8:12 am

             Sebastian,
             Salvation is through faith alone, believing Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. We are all sinners in God’s sight. None is righteous.

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36. Joe January 17, 2015 at 10:44 am

    The last three versus of the book of Romans supplements Romans 2:16. If Paul is to be believed then there is no question that “Paul’s” gospel is what saves us today (I Cor 15:1-4). Romans 16:25 says it’s Paul’s gospel received from Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was unknown until given to Paul. Ephesians 3:1-3 echos the same. We either believe Paul or not. We either accept Paul’s epistles or not. Peter had his questions too (II Peter 3:16) but he accepted Paul never-the-less…….(Doctrine, I know you don’t need any help but I felt a need to add this)

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 17, 2015 at 11:22 am

       Always room for the truth.

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    2. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 17, 2015 at 2:47 pm

       It appears that you would rather believe Paul instead of what has been witnessed to by God’s Law, God’s Prophets, and God’s Messiah.

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       1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 17, 2015 at 3:15 pm

          Michael,
          I believe the Scriptures. Paul received his doctrine from the ascended, glorified Lord (Galatians 1.1, 11-12). To reject Paul is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

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          1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 17, 2015 at 7:45 pm

             No. To reject the witness of God’ Law and God’s Prophets is to reject His Messiah. As I said before, Paul said that he believed all things written in the Law and The Prophets, but his writings prove otherwise. His gospel is not the one foretold by the Law or the Prophets or the one proclaimed by God’s Messiah.

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             1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 17, 2015 at 7:54 pm

                Michael,
                The problem with what you write is that you provide not a shred of Biblical evidence to support it. I have given you several Scriptures and you ignore them. Since no Scriptures support your ideas they are worthless.

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                1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 18, 2015 at 7:30 am

                   Paul said that he believed all things written in the Law and The Prophets. Acts 24:14. The New Covenant: Jeremiah 31: 31-37. Ezekiel 36: 24-38. Deuteronomy 30: 1-10. Those with circumcised hearts show that it is so by being obedient to God’s Law, but Paul teaches that the Messiah destroyed the Law. Ephesians 2:14,15. The Messiah and the Law: Matthew 5: 17-20. Read Psalms 19 and 119. Read what the Spirit of God says about the Law, then compare it to what Paul says. Now who do you believe?

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                   1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 18, 2015 at 8:23 am

                      Michael,
                      Paul certainly believed the Law and the Prophets. But the Law and the Prophets had no revelation of the Church, the body of Christ. The OT was silent about the Church. The doctrines of the Church came by revelation from the ascended Lord to Paul. Peter declared Paul’s words were Scripture, that they were God-breathed. So, when I believe Paul, I believe the Lord Jesus Christ. Furthermore, for your point to have merit you have to show God gave the Law to Gentiles. He didn’t. God gave the Law to Moses to Israel. Gentiles, and certainly not the Church, have never been under the Mosaic Law. If you are right we need to remove Acts, all of Paul’s epistles, Hebrews, and Peter’s epistles from the canon for they support Paul.

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                      1. Glenn October 26, 2016 at 1:18 pm

                         Acts 7:37-38 (The Church in the wilderness, Moses and the children of Israel, where the church began.)

                         37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

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                         1. doctrine Post authorOctober 26, 2016 at 2:33 pm

                            Glenn,
                            Paul stated the Church, the body of Christ, began with him. The “church” in the wilderness were Jews. The Church, the body of Christ, did not exist. The Scriptures explicitly state this (Ephesians 3.1-9). The word ἐκκλησία, translated “church” means an assembly. Specific meaning depends upon context. Read Acts 19 where ἐκκλησία is used 3x but never translated “church.”

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37. Joe January 17, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    Michael, Peter was immersed in the law from birth through our Lord’s incarnation. How does anyone get around the fact that now Peter tells us to follow Paul in II Peter 3:16?….Paul is pure Grace!…I know, we all think we have to do something (law) but that only cheapens the fact that Jesus did it all. (“It is finished”) Doing something is what the Law demands. Who can add to the Lord’s sacrifice and accomplishment in the resurrection? It appears Peter eventually moved away from the law and towards the Lord’s revelations of Grace to Paul ….If words have meaning how can we have any other interpretation?

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    1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 18, 2015 at 2:28 pm

       Is sin not the same for all; the transgression of God’s Law? 1 John 3:4 So whether Israelite or Gentile, God’s law comes into play in ones life. To fear God and keep His commandments is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13 God’s Holy Spirit will lead anyone, whether Israelite or Gentile, to live only one way; the way of God’s Laws, commandments, and judgements. Ezekiel 36:27 Paul agrees in Romans 2:12-16 3:31 8:1-8 He then changes his mind and portrays the Law as a barrier between Israelite and Gentile that the Messiah destroyed in order to unite the two and present them to God. Ephesians 2:14 18 What? Was he not aware of Psalms 119:152,160 and the words of the Messiah? Matthew 5:17-20 He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He claims to be an Apostle of the Messiah, while blaspheming him also. To habitually disobey God’s Law, after having repented for doing so, is to treat the sacrifice of the Messiah and God’s gift of the Holy Spirit as cheap things.

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       1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 18, 2015 at 4:17 pm

          Michael,
          The problem with this reply is that it is of no help since you refuse to address the issue of to whom God gave the Law. Unless you understand God gave the Law to Jews–not Gentiles you will continue to err. You claim Paul blasphemed Christ but provide no Scripture to support the claim. Have you read Paul’s letters? You refuse to address Peter’s comment in Acts 15 about the Law or his comment about Paul. Was Peter a false apostle also? The more you write, the more misunderstanding you reveal. Have you ever picked up a stick on Saturday? If you have, if you keep the Law, you should be dead. The Law required death for this. Think!

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          1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 18, 2015 at 5:40 pm

             Tired of this discussion. Seems you have no regard for what is written in the Law or the Prophets, or the words of the Messiah. You’ve paid little or no attention to the scriptures I’ve provided; so there’s no sense in continuing.

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             1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 19, 2015 at 7:47 am

                Michael,
                Your comments confirm you have not read Paul. Paul was not against the Law as Law. He reiterated all the laws of the Decalogue except the Sabbath in his writings and constantly exhorted Christians to live moral lives and behave righteously. Paul taught that Christians are not under the administration of the Law. Instead, Christians are under new administration, the administration of the Holy Spirit. He works with the believer’s spirit to fulfill the Law through love. For more on this, see my article, “Paul and the Law.”

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    2. Roger Spielmann February 20, 2016 at 2:15 pm

       I’ve been re-reading this discussion and noticing how many times readers (and Doctrine) refer to 2 Peter 3:16 to show that Peter accepted Paul as a “brother.”

       It should be noted, however, that this may not be as it seems. The consensus of NT scholars is that 2 Peter 3:14-17 is an interpolation; that is, a later addition by a zealous scribe and follower of Paul’s religion to make it *appear* as if Peter accepted Paul’s message. And, interestingly, people quote that passage because it is the only indication we have that supports that idea. Read 2 Peter 3 without those verses and you can see how it flows seamlessly without it.

       My point is not to get into an argument about this, but that readers in this forum be aware that that particular passage (vs. 14-17) is in dispute. And if it was a later addition, where then does go to suggest that Peter accepted Paul’s message. And if he didn’t…

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       1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 4:18 pm

          Roger,
          Such disputes come and go. If we took every passage that scholars have disputed we’d have little of the NT left. The Jesus Seminar would reduce the NT to a graphic novel. Peter acceded to Paul at the Council and submitted to Paul’s rebuke at Antioch with no apparent long term hard feelings. James accepted Paul but could not get past the Mosaic Law. Paul constantly had to defend his apostleship during his lifetime and that continues today. Wonder who’s behind the opposition?

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          1. Roger Spielmann February 21, 2016 at 7:47 am

             Thank you. You wrote, “James accepted Paul but could not get past the Mosaic Law.” Exactly. James didn’t “get it.” He was wrong about the place of the Mosaic Law for believers. Yet his letter is included in the canon of scripture. As your article notes, Martin Luther didn’t believe it should be in the canon. This is serious stuff, I would think. It’s not enough to say such disputes come and go.

             Most Christians I know personally believe Paul’s gospel but still believe that repentance, baptism and “being filled with the Holy Spirit” are important to one’s salvation. Others I know believe in even weirder stuff. But at the core they believe what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Are you saying that they aren’t “saved” if they continue to believe in weird stuff? And then we have Messianic Jews. Are you saying that their faith in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 is nullified because they continue to keep the Law? Was James’ salvation nullified? Thank you.

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             1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 21, 2016 at 8:05 am

                Roger,
                The critical, essential part is what one believes for salvation. If one believes water baptism, tithing, or anything else is necessary they have missed salvation. If they believe that these things are important but not necessary that is a different question. They may just be ignorant about what things are appropriate to Christian living. Salvation is based solely upon believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-5). Luther did not understand James because he did not understand Paul. He understood justification but remained ignorant about ecclesiology, eschatology, etc. He did not understand that faith and works were necessary for salvation before Paul. That’s why he didn’t want James in the canon.

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38. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    I’ve read Paul thoroughly. I did what the people of Berea did; comparing what Paul taught, with the Scriptures (the Law and the Prophets), that Paul said he believed totally. I found that Paul mixed truth with untruth. I gave you Paul’s own words as evidence. I agree that believers of the Messiah are under the administration of the Holy Spirit, and showed you in Ezekiel how the Holy Spirit will lead anyone to live. I was shown years ago that the Law describes God’s own ways and thoughts. It reveals what is right and good in His sight. If the Law is destroyed (which is what Paul taught), so then are God’s ways and thoughts. I gave you scriptures that showed that, just as God is eternal; so is His Law. So to teach that God’s only begotten Son caused His Law to be destroyed is “blasphemy”. If God’s law is regarded as destroyed, then one has no choice but to live as one sees fit; to do what is right and good in one’s own sight. Compare Paul’s description of what the Spirit produces, with that of Ezekiel’s. Paul’s is very subjective, where one can say, “Well, that’s the way I see it”. Ezekiel’s is very clear, and leaves no doubt. God’s Spirit will produce obedience to God’s Laws, statutes, and judgments. God’s Spirit will cause anyone to live according to God’s ways and thoughts and to do what is right and good in God’s sight. The Law is God’s standard to all who claim to speak on His behalf. Isaiah 8:16,20 The Scriptures teach that one who lives according to God’s Law is “blessed”. Paul’ teaches that one is “cursed” who does so. What does Isaiah say about such? Isaiah 5:20-24

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm

       Michael,
       Three questions: 1) Please tell me how a person is saved. 2) Please tell me how you interpret 2 Peter 3.14-16. 3) Please provide Scripture to support your view that Paul taught the destruction of the Law in light of Romans 3.31 and Romans 7.12.

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39. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 20, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    I don’t believe that any of the so-called New Testament writers considered anything that they wrote as carrying the same authority as that of the Law and The Prophets. What gives their writings credibility is if their message agrees with that of the Law and The Prophets. “It is written”, is always followed by a quote from the Law and The Prophets; not from anything written by any New Testament writer. To answer your 1st question, see John 3:16. Why would you ask your final question, if you actually read my responses of Jan. 18th at 7:30am and 2:28pm? Please scroll up to read them.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 20, 2015 at 6:35 pm

       Michael,
       The answer to the other two questions is? Your citing Ephesians 2.14-15 as evidence Paul taught the Messiah destroyed the Law reveals you do not understand Paul. It also reveals you did not read my article, Paul and the Law. The other passages you cited were written to Jews, not Gentiles. You have not addressed this issue even though I have brought it to your attention several times. When passages are taken out of context the result is error. Do you not realize the Law was given to Jews, not Gentiles, not Christians and that Jesus and the Twelve ministered to Jews, not Gentiles (Matthew 10.5-6)? Your citing John 3.16 for salvation indicates you believe one is saved apart from believing the resurrection since John 3.16 contains no resurrection. One remedy is available: believe Paul’s gospel, that Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

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       1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 10, 2015 at 10:13 am

          If one believes in the God’s Messiah (John 3:16), one believes in his life, death, and resurrection. Did he not say that he is the resurrection and the life? John 11:25,26

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 10, 2015 at 7:08 pm

             Michael,

             Correct interpretation requires understanding the Scriptures in the context in which they were written. The 12 had no understanding Jesus would rise from the dead (Luke 18.34; John 20.8-9). John 3.16 referred to believing Jesus was the Messiah (Matthew 16.16; John 11.27).

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             1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 11, 2015 at 10:18 am

                Context? What difference does it make whether the 12 understood him at the time or not? The Messiah himself spoke the words of John 3:16. He understood what he said, and the 12 surely did after witnessing his resurrection. Acts 2:22-36

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2015 at 12:13 pm

                   Michael,
                   Context is everything. One cannot believe what one does not know. The 12 were not saved by believing Christ would rise again which is essential to believe for salvation today (1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

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                   1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 11, 2015 at 1:16 pm

                      What are you talking about? All of the 12, plus 500 others believed that the Messiah died for their sins, according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried and raised on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures. They knew and believed all that, even before Paul did. What do you think Paul himself is attesting to in 1 Corinthians 1-8?

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 11, 2015 at 3:28 pm

                         Michael,
                         Not a single word of Scripture supports such an idea. Did Peter tell the Jews on the day of Pentecost to believe Christ died for their sins? This truth was unknown until the Lord revealed it to Paul. We must read the Scriptures to know what was revealed and when it was revealed.

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                   2. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 11, 2015 at 8:25 pm

                      You asked if Peter told the Jews on Pentacost to believe that Christ died for their sins, and also say that this truth was unknown until the Lord revealed it to Paul. After speaking of the Messiah’s death and resurrection, Peter told them to repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 So what is your point?

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                      1. doctrine Post authorMarch 12, 2015 at 9:12 am

                         Michael,

                         The point is that Peter’s message at Pentecost is the same message John the Bapptist preached. To be saved one had to repent and be baptized believing Jesus was the Messiah. We find nothing in the Gospels or in Peter’s messages of the significance of Christ’s death on the cross as it relates to salvation. Peter’s message was that even though the Jews had killed their King He could still be that if they repented because He had risen from the dead. He said nothing about His death atoning for their sins. That truth was unknown until God revealed it to Paul.

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                         1. Glenn October 25, 2016 at 4:06 pm

                            1st Peter 1 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your FAITH and hope might be in God.

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    2. Eli "Hoss" Caldwell January 23, 2015 at 9:50 pm

       Michael, what portions of the scripture do you believe are inspired? It looks like you do not believe that Paul was a true apostle.

       It would be good if you read all of Acts 15, I have pasted a portion of it below.

       Acts 15:
       [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
       [22] Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
       [23] And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
       [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
       [25] It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
       [26] Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
       [27] We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
       [28] For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
       [29] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

       I am curious, do you worship in a temple like the 12 Jewish apostles of the circumcision? (Acts 2:46, 3:1)

       Do you eat pork and go into the homes of Gentiles? Even Peter learnt that these things were perfectly fine (Acts 10:9-28) AFTER Christ revealed the mystery to Paul (1 Tim. 1:11-16, Eph. 3:1-9, Col. 1:24-27, Rom. 11:25-27, 15:16, 16:25)

       Do you keep the Sabbath? I’m just curious….

       “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Tim. 2:15 )

       –Eli “Hoss” Caldwell

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       1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm

          So it appears that you too are willing to believe “Paul’s Mystery”, rather than what is written in the Law and in the Prophets. Peter didn’t say that he learned that it was okay to eat pork and such; he said that he learned that he should call no MAN common or unclean. Acts 10:28

          Let’s just stick to what each of us believes the Scriptures teach; okay?

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          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 27, 2015 at 1:25 pm

             Michael,
             What Peter learned was that Paul’s gospel was from the Jerusalem Council forward the only gospel (Acts 15.11). You’ve pointed to Ezekiel 36.26-27 more than once. To whom do you think “you” refers? If you are a Berean the Scriptures must be understood in their context. God gave the Law to the Jews, not to Gentiles. To place yourself under the Mosaic Law is to place yourself into bondage. This is what Peter stated in Acts 15.10 and Paul in Galatians 4. Do you think you understand the Law better than Peter and Paul? What I’m trying to say to you is that you’re free. Christ paid for your sins. Why reject His work on your behalf? Do you really want to be shackled to the Law that Christ nailed to His cross (Colossians 2.13-14)?

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             1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 28, 2015 at 9:20 am

                Okay, so what are you saying? That God’s Spirit will only cause Israelites to live according to His Laws, and cause Gentiles not to? Scan through Psalms chapter 119 and compare the Spirit of God’s attitude towards God’s Law, with Paul and Peter’s statements about the Law:

                The Holy Spirit’s attitude is, “BLESSED is the man who lives according to the Law of the LORD” Psalms 119:1-3 and “I will live a life of FREEDOM, because I have sought out Your precepts”. Psalms 119:45

                The attitude of Peter and Paul is that one is “CURSED” or that one is under some UNBEARABLE YOKE OF BONDAGE in obeying the Law of God.

                What does God say about such? Isaiah 8:16,20
                Now, who do you believe?

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                1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 28, 2015 at 12:36 pm

                   Michael,
                   Since the Scriptures do not contradict themselves we must conclude your understanding of them is faulty. If we keep the Scriptures in their proper order and context the sense will be plain. The Jews were under the Mosaic Law but the moral law is for all. I think if you read Galatians and my article, Paul and the Law, this will make sense to you. Paul was not anti-law but anti-law-administration. The Church fulfills the moral law by faith, hope, love, and the Holy Spirit (Romans 6.14; Galatians 5.18). This is a completely different kind of relationship than Israel enjoyed. They were under the Law’s administration. The Church is under the administration of grace. This is what Paul taught in Romans 6-8 and Galatians. The Jews, as a nation, will not fulfill the Law until they become a nation of priests (Exodus 19.6) which is when they are ruled by the Messiah. This is what Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31) and Ezekiel (Ezekiel 36) prophesied. That time remains future.

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40. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 28, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    I agree; the Scriptures don’t contradict themselves. I speak of the writings of the Law and the Prophets. But in your mind, Paul’s Mystery wasn’t spoken of in these writings; so one has to trust that Paul is speaking the truth. The Messiah warned that there would come those claiming to represent him, but that they would deceive many. Those under the Old Covenant were trying to obey God’s Law through the power of their carnal nature, a nature that will not submit to the Law of God, a nature that views the Law of God as a “yoke”. The Spirit of God will give one a different attitude towards His Law, as in Psalms 119. Makes no difference whether Israelite or Gentile. Sin is sin; disobedience to God’s Law.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 29, 2015 at 8:10 am

       Michael,
       Many problems attend viewing Paul as a deceiver. One has to account for his conversion and his suffering for Christ. Luke, Peter, and Mark trusted him and agreed with his doctrine. If they are wrong are Luke, Acts, and Mark trustworthy? But Matthew and John agree with them. So are they trustworthy? Not much is left if you remove their writings. In truth, Christianity does not exist apart from Paul. If Christianity goes, what’s left? Judaism doesn’t believe Christ is the Messiah. Given this, and that the Scriptures do not contradict, one must conclude that either Paul is right or your understanding of him is flawed.

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       1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 29, 2015 at 9:56 am

          Whatever is written by any of the writers from Matthew through Revelation, must agree with what these same writers considered to be the inerrant word of God; just as what the Prophets said had to agree with the Law of God. Why? Because God’s Law expresses God’s very Own ways and thoughts. Isaiah 55:8,9 Psalms 119:1-3 Isaiah 8:16,20 God’s Law is the STANDARD throughout the Scriptures.

          Paul seems to agree with these scriptures, in many of his writings; but seems to disagree too. Sure Abraham was justified by faith, but it is also written that Abraham obeyed God’s voice,
          statutes, commandments, and laws. Genesis 26:4,5 You mean Paul didn’t know this? In your opinion, exactly what is Paul saying in Ephesians 2:15?

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          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 29, 2015 at 12:36 pm

             Michael,
             Care must be taken in this. What is meant by law: the moral law or the Mosaic Law? God dealt with the human race for 2,500 years before He gave the Mosaic Law. God does not change but His program and dealings with man change. When the prophets spoke of the law they spoke not only of the moral law but the Mosaic Law. As for Ephesians 2.15, in this passage Paul wrote that Gentiles had no hope: they were not part of Israel and did not enjoy the covenants of promise. Ever since God established the Abrahamic covenant, Gentiles were without hope and without blessing apart from Israel. Christ’s death on the cross changed this. His death removed the partition between Jew and Gentile. The Law of Moses legislated this separation. Jews were to remain separate from Gentiles. Christ’s death ended the separation between Jew and Gentile (Ephesians 2.14-15). We do not find the Twelve proclaiming this. Peter addressed Jew only at Pentecost. He had no thought of reaching Gentiles. The significance of Christ’s death to bring Jew and Gentile together was a Pauline revelation. The Twelve knew nothing of it. This is why we find no evangelistic efforts by the Twelve to go to Gentiles. Not until after Paul was saved and commissioned as the apostle of the Gentiles does ministry to Gentiles begin. Paul is a new administration–just as God began a new administration (Abrahamic covenant) with his call of Abraham and as He began a new administration when He gave the Law to Moses (Mosaic covenant). The new administration God began with Paul we call the Church: Christianity.

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             1. Roger Spielmann March 24, 2016 at 10:15 am

                I’m curious about this. You wrote, “As for Ephesians 2.15, in this passage Paul wrote that Gentiles had no hope.” Does that imply that no non-Jews could be saved until Paul?

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 24, 2016 at 11:10 am

                   Roger,
                   Paul is dealing with groups not individuals: Gentiles vs. Jews. Jews, Israel, were put into a place of privilege beginning with the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12.1-3). Gentiles as a group were excluded from God’s direct blessings, e.g., covenants. Paul made the same argument in Romans 11 (see my article, The Olive Tree). We read of Gentiles being saved in the OT but it was always through the agency or mediation of Jews. Gentiles had no direct dealings with God. That changed with Paul becoming the apostle of the Gentiles and his gospel of grace.

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       2. steve April 10, 2015 at 9:58 pm

          what’ left? ebionites. torah observant christians. etc.
          they had a tanakh, with the gospel of matthew.
          if someone claims to follow christ, then what do they need besides him?
          paul got canonized by gentile bishops doing constantine’s bidding.
          keeping paul around for the sake of thickening our bibles is a weak argument. if you want to thicken it some more, why not just staple the koran to the end of revelations?
          i’ll settle for fewer, more meaningful scrpitures.

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          1. doctrine Post authorApril 11, 2015 at 8:27 am

             Steve,
             You sent many anti-Paul comments. I will not address them as others have written many books that address them. My task is to reveal the Scriptures, provide a contextual understanding of them, and encourage people to study for themselves. Following Jesus today is following Paul’s teaching. Paul received his doctrine directly from the risen, glorified Lord. The Lord Himself commissioned Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles and revealed to him Church doctrine. While on earth, Jesus’ ministry was only to Jews under the Mosaic Law. The Twelve’s ministry was also to Jews alone. They were apostles to Israel. No salvation today exists apart from believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Believe it and live!

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             1. steve April 11, 2015 at 3:42 pm

                paul taught that we are saved by faith alone and that we may eat meat sacrificed to idols. this in spite of what the law requires. and he said it was ok to do so about three times. but he got his instructions from the risen lord, and therefore to walk with paul is to walk with the risen lord. this is scripture, as you might argue. alright, trouble is, in revelations, the same risen lord condemns this practice of eating meat sacrificed to idols three times, and tells us that the patience of the saints is those who ‘keep the commandments and bear the testimony’.
                now where i’m confused is: which risen lord should i be listening to?

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                1. doctrine Post authorApril 11, 2015 at 4:00 pm

                   Steve,
                   Revelation was written to Jews. They will be fully under the Law with a Temple, sacrifices, etc. The Church does not exist in Revelation. Confusion results from not analyzing who the audience is. In Revelation, salvation will not be based upon Christ’s work as it is now, but upon His identity–just as it was in the Gospels. Sort these things out and everything falls into its proper place. My article, Understanding the Book of Revelation explains more of this.

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                   1. steve April 11, 2015 at 8:11 pm

                      matt7:23
                      jewish audience or not, lawlesness is heavily frowned upon by God, the prophets and Jesus.
                      if i am in jesus and he is in me, i’ll do it his way.
                      the bit about one day restoring sacrifices for jewish people only is not biblical. whether according to the gospel of john or revelations.
                      where paul is concerned, it’s not like following paul doesn’t come without laws. he just wants people to follow his and not Gods.
                      i must admit, your point of view is interesting. but the notion that i may as well throw anything found in the bible that wasn’t written by paul in the garbage is nonsense.

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                      1. doctrine Post authorApril 12, 2015 at 1:54 pm

                         Steve,
                         Not to be under the administration of the Mosaic Law and lawlessness are totally different ideas. Paul wrote that believers are under grace not Law (Romans 6.14) and that this arrangement actually establishes the Law (Romans 3.27-31). Grace leads to obedience–something that the Mosaic Law could not do and was not its purpose. Nowhere in my articles is anything that even remotely suggest, “throw anything found in the bible that wasn’t written by paul in the garbage.” I have written that the Scriptures are God-breathed and profitable (2 Timothy 3.16; Romans 15.4; 1 Corinthians 10.11). All Scripture is FOR us not all Scripture is TO us. That is what you apparently do not understand.

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       3. Dan coiled January 25, 2019 at 5:06 pm

          Did Paul recieve his orders from the angel of light (Lucifer)?

          Firstly Paul/Saul shows no repentance for the murder of Stephen.
          Secondly Saul/Paul has not given the reader the witness testimony of 2 or more for establishing the circumstances surrounding the events of his alleged conversion with Jesus. Jesus taught the importance of correct witness testimony once to the adulteress who was to be stoned to death, also where 2 or more are to be found in his name Jesus shall be with them.
          Thirdly, Jesus tells all how he would reveal himself to HIS apostles, resurrected in the flesh! Jesus was clear regarding not abolishing the law.

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          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 25, 2019 at 5:38 pm

             Dan,
             Your statements are factually false and your opposition to Paul reveals you are without hope, without Christ, and without eternal life. No salvation exists apart from Paul’s gospel by which the Lord will judge the world (Romans 2.16). If you wish to live you have to come through Paul just as Jews had to come through Moses.

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41. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. January 30, 2015 at 8:27 am

    You’ve amassed this “huge mountain” of teachings that is in disagreement with the word of God. You seem blind to the fact that in doing so; you have changed God, His Messiah, and His Gospel. What is Paul teaching in Colossians 2:16,17? Is he teaching that Christ embodied this list, and now it is no longer necessary to observe them?

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 30, 2015 at 12:12 pm

       Michael,
       Hundreds of contradictions exist if you view the Scriptures as applying equally to all. Abraham was saved by believing God would give him children (Genesis 15.1-6). Is that the way people are saved today? Jesus answered the rich young ruler that to have eternal life one must keep the commandments. Why didn’t he tell the young man he was saved by having children? Was Jesus wrong? On another occasion Jesus told a woman her faith had saved her (Luke 7.36-50). Was Jesus wrong? The Law was given to the Jews. Gentiles were never under it. The Law’s administration does not fit God’s plan for the Church. If it did, you would be stoned to death for picking up a stick on Saturday. Have you ever traveled more than 3/5 of a mile on Saturday? If you have, and you think you’re under the Law, you have violated the Sabbath. Only by understanding to whom a passage was given are we able to avoid such contradictions. God commissioned Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles. He revealed to him His program for the Church. This program is different from the program He revealed to Abraham or the program he revealed to Moses. If you interpret the Scriptures as God has revealed them contradictions vanish. If you interpret the Scriptures contrary to how God has revealed them, you face irresolvable problems and contradictions. God will not be put into a box! “He doesn’t like being tied down…. He’s wild, you know. Not like a tame lion.” How to live the Christian life is explained in Identification with Christ.

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    2. Joe November 27, 2015 at 12:49 am

       Michael, are there any practices, doctrines, teachings, instructions presented before the law that we should accept or reject? If all scripture is for our correction and instruction then time before the law is important. I’m assuming there is value in the pages of the bible before the law and prophets. God commanded Noah to build an ark. Is this something I should be doing? Am I to obey the Sabbath today? Are there dispensations? If so, are there differences between them? Why have different dispensations if nothing changes? If Paul received revelations from the risen Lord what was revealed to him? If too much had been revealed during the Lord’s incarnation he would not have been crucified. I Corinthians 2:8. Where would we be today without the crucifixion and resurrection? I Corinthians 15:1-4. Where were the 12 at day break on the first day of the week following the crucifixion? Today we know what the 12 didn’t …..thanks to Paul.

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42. bobneto January 31, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    Great article! what an eye-opener.But I will love it if you clear my doubts on the following;
    Under the new covenant,are we gentiles suppose to fast or not?.It seems Paul never mentioned it and I don’t know why.
    Secondly,why was Cornelius who was a gentile baptised with water (Acts 10:47-48)?
    Thanks very much.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 31, 2015 at 5:00 pm

       Thank you. Fasting is a personal choice. Paul’s only instruction is in 1 Corinthians 7.5. Cornelius was baptized because that was what Peter knew. Water baptism was required for salvation under the kingdom program (Mark 16.16; Acts 2.38). Only with Paul’s gospel of faith + 0 did this go away.

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43. Joe February 1, 2015 at 10:55 am

    My experience with learning the bible is that it comes in little packages of illumination…..I’ve always had a question why some of Jesus’ teachings were ‘hidden’ from some in his audience like in Matthew 11 where it’s hidden from the educated… In Luke 18 knowledge was hidden from the Apostles. Do you think certain doctrines are hidden from me (us)as we study each day? It appears some visitors asking questions above have problems coming to grips that Paul is legit. Why wouldn’t God make it real easy for us to learn if we are sincere in our study?

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    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 1, 2015 at 1:37 pm

       Joe,
       Since the Scriptures are complete all that can be known is known. Most confusion is a result of failure to understand Paul’s unique apostleship and to accept his teachings. Paul disclosed this problem before he died. What people refuse to understand is apart from Paul, Christianity does not exist.

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       1. Joe February 2, 2015 at 8:33 pm

          Please expound on this verse. Paul is saying we need to distance ourselves from Christ (not Jesus) in at least one way.

          II Corinthians 5 vs 16

          I think this is NIV

          16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.

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          1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 3, 2015 at 7:54 am

             Joe,
             The NIV translation is poor, which means the translators did not understand this verse. Paul’s point is that the focus for believers of his gospel is to be upon the risen, glorified Christ and the doctrines Paul received from Him in this status, rather than the teachings of Christ in His earthly ministry in the flesh.

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44. Matthew February 21, 2015 at 8:29 am

    God has slowly been revealing this to me over the last couple of years. This understanding of how God deals with different audience’s really clears up “contradictions” and “misunderstandings “! I do have a question that I hope you can answer or lend guidance to. I’m trying to gain insight/illumination on the events of Acts 21. Paul says in Galatians that if anyone preached a different gospel they were accursed. Why then was James so excited to tell Paul about “the myriads of jews who have believed and who are all zealous for the law”. Did he not understand or was he so entrenched in tradition that he didn’t want to understand? Thanks for your time.

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    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 21, 2015 at 10:57 am

       Matthew,
       It appears James never grasped that the Law was over as a system of administration. Read James’ words in Acts 15 carefully. He agreed no longer to trouble the Gentiles regarding the Law (Acts 15.19). He did not mention Jews. I do not think James ever grasped Paul’s teachings of grace or that believers of Paul’s gospel are not subject to the Mosaic Law. I think Peter got more of what Paul taught but even he had trouble absorbing some things–as he indicated before his death (2 Peter 3.16).

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       1. matthew February 21, 2015 at 4:09 pm

          I agree. It’s almost as if he(James) couldn’t deny the work that God was doing with the Gentiles through Paul and Peter’s testimonies but Gentiles were of no concern to him so it was back to business as usual. Thanks for your response and for your faithfulness to “rightly divide”.

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45. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 16, 2015 at 9:10 am

    You say that Peter said nothing on Pentecost about the Messiah’s death atoning for their sins. I showed you where Acts 2:38 proves that he did. John the Baptist alluded to the Messiah’s death atoning for sins when he said, “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. John 1:29 The Prophets foretold this many years before. Isaiah 53 So you are incorrect when saying that this truth was unknown until God revealed it to Paul.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 16, 2015 at 12:21 pm

       Michael,
       Acts 2.38 reads, “Then Peter said unto them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'” Where in the verse do you see, “Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead?” Nothing in Acts 2 says this. John 1.29 states the Lamb of God removes sin but does not state how He does it. John the Baptist had no clue that Christ would die on the cross and rise from the dead to solve the problem of sin. The same is true for Isaiah 53. The Jews had no idea what this passage meant and we also have the record from the gospels that the 12 had no understanding of this. The only way we know this truth is because the risen Lord revealed it to Paul. What you are doing is reading Paul into Isaiah, the Gospels, and Acts. Such flawed handling of the Word results in error and confusion.

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       1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 17, 2015 at 1:20 pm

          Again; believe what you will. Those who believed what Peter said received the Holy Spirit and were added to God’s Assembly of believers. Seems you only deny the proof I’ve given only to justify your belief in Paul’s “mystery Gospel”, supposedly given to him by the risen Messiah. Whoever or whatever appeared to Paul could not have been the risen Messiah, if Paul was given a different message from the 12. The true Messiah’s Gospel would have remained the same. What has resulted from Paul’s mystery gospel? What God has declared evil, has become good, and what God has declared good, has become evil. Confusion!

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          1. doctrine Post authorMarch 17, 2015 at 1:31 pm

             Michael,
             The result of Paul’s gospel is that men and women come to know the risen, living Christ and gain eternal life. It is the power of God to all who will believe it (Romans 1.16). Apart from Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4), no salvation exists.

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             1. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 17, 2015 at 9:58 pm

                No. As a result, many have been deceived into accepting a false gospel instead of the one declared by the Messiah and his 12. Paul’s oratory skills and persuasiveness appear to have even fooled the 12 for a time.

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                1. doctrine Post authorMarch 18, 2015 at 8:17 am

                   Michael,
                   Your own words condemn you. No salvation exists apart from believing Paul’s gospel: Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Salvation is by faith in Christ’s finished work alone. Sola fide.

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                2. Michael E. Thompson, Sr. March 18, 2015 at 8:32 am

                   Seems the 12 were “blind-sided” by Paul’s seemingly miraculous conversion; from persecuting believers to seemingly becoming a believer himself. Paul’s gospel is similar to that of the Messiah and his 12, except Paul’s gospel excludes obedience to the Law of God. In fact, according to Paul, the Messiah is responsible for this. The God and the Messiah that Paul preached, portrays each as having changed; now accepting those who disregard God’s Sabbaths and dietary laws, and accepting worship that was once directed to false gods. It appears when the 12 finally realized this, they distanced themselves from Paul and tried to repair the damage he had done.

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                   1. doctrine Post authorMarch 18, 2015 at 12:24 pm

                      Michael,
                      Comments like this result from a rejection of Christ’s words to Paul.

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46. becky March 16, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Don, in Pauls’ epistle to the Romans, he says, Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ. What “Jesus” did these people know? Were any of the four gospels available to these people? I have just started looking at Matthew McGee’s chronology of Paul’s journeys to give me some insight.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 16, 2015 at 7:08 pm

       Becky,
       Paul wrote of the risen, glorified Christ (2 Corinthians 5.16). He wrote Romans about 57 A.D. Chronology is difficult and always involves as certain amount of speculation (which is why chronologists do not agree). Luke may have composed his gospel or it may not have been done until Paul was in prison in Rome (60 A.D.). Acts ends around this time so Luke probably wrote it while Paul was in prison. Both of them had time to catch up on their writing. They were busy men.

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47. Becky March 18, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Hi Don, regarding these verses, Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son….Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you….. Were they only meant for the 12? I dont see Paul teaching them in any sense. Also, I dont read of the 12 taking advantage of the opportunity.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMarch 18, 2015 at 12:19 pm

       Becky,
       It should be obvious to anyone who has prayed that these verses do not work. There are two explanations: God lies (wrong) and they were not meant for us (right). They were meant for the 12. Paul taught prayer but with no guarantees (Philippians 4.6). To what degree the 12 experienced this promise is unknown. The beginning chapters of Acts record harmony and miraculous power by them and there is little sin in the church. What there was God dealt with swiftly (cf. Ananias and Sapphira).

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       1. Becky March 18, 2015 at 3:19 pm

          Thanks Don. I very much appreciate that you do not speculate or make assumptions. I am reminded of the name-it-and-claim-it or word of faith movement who use verses like this to dumb down people, whether they realize it or not. Great answer, thanks again.

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48. Chris Hodges April 13, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    I love this site! My eyes and understanding were opened to this “Mystery of the revelation” a few yrs ago after watching a bible study “through the bible”! I would love to correspond with like minded brethren. God bless
    Chris

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 14, 2015 at 9:39 am

       Chris,
       Thanks so much. Grace and peace.

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49. Kevin April 17, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    This is all quite interesting and presents compelling theories for the reconciliation of what some of us see as contradictory issues. I have to admit that the idea of two gospels can be illuminating; however, other questions arise also that remain unexplained. No one knows for certain except that which has been given to all who are rational and that is we know what is wrongful and we feel guilty for doing it whereas when we choose to do good we feel that it is appreciated.

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 18, 2015 at 8:44 am

       Kevin,
       No contradictions exist. If one will allow the Scriptures to mean what they state, everything will fall neatly into place. What must be recognized is that the earthly, kingdom program of God to Jews was a different program that the program the risen, heavenly Christ revealed to Paul for Gentiles. The Bible clearly states what Paul received from the ascended Lord were secrets, unknown by the prophets and unrevealed by the Lord in His earthly ministry. The Church, the body of Christ, the gospel of grace (salvation by faith alone), the Rapture, the blinding of national Israel, etc. were all unknown teachings before Paul.

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       1. Kevin April 18, 2015 at 12:33 pm

          Unless I missed this reasoning my whole life (not at all impossible) I don’t think that I’ve seen this before in either Protestant denominations or the Catholic Church. My reference to other questions which remain unexplained is subjective in regard to “really being saved ” as being questionable when one “backslides” into sin after allegedly being saved, i.e. “you weren’t really saved otherwise the Holy Spirit would have kept you from sinning”. Hasn’t worked for me so then there was the Catholic Church.

          That denomination has it’s points in reconciliation but stresses man’s part in his salvation, the Eucharist, and Marian doctrines that are hard to accept such as: Queen of Heaven, Intermediary, co-redeemer; etc.

          So I’ve also been informed that there are some who just are not going to be saved and perhaps I’m one of them. After all there are no winners in a race if no one loses.

          Perhaps I’m one of them.

          Thanks,
          Kevin

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          1. doctrine Post authorApril 19, 2015 at 1:17 pm

             Kevin,
             You would not be alone in missing this. Almost all of Christendom has missed it. We can be saved but still sin. Paul addressed this reality throughout his letters. The first important thing is to be saved and that is done by believing Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Paul explained how we are to live once saved in Romans 6-8. I address this in my articles, Identification with Christ and Paul and the Law.

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          2. Carolyn April 24, 2015 at 12:30 pm

             Kevin,

             The Holy Spirit doesn’t keep us from sinning once we become Christians; otherwise, why would we be admonished not to grieve the Holy Spirit with repetitive, willful sin? (Ephesians 4:30) Christ died once for all who believe (John 3:16) and the Lord is patiently waiting because He does not want anyone to be lost. (2 Peter 3:9) Those who perish do so because they refuse to love the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10). A guilty conscience is evidence for being one of His children (Hebrews 12:5)! However, those who persist in rejection of the truth will be deliberately blocked from understanding it. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

             The Christian’s “freedom from sin” is of two kinds: Freedom from punishment due to Christ’s sacrifice, and Freedom from bondage. (Romans 6:15 – 23) Sin remains a possibility because we retain a free will, even though we now owe our life to Christ. Even Paul struggled with sin!(Romans 7:14 -25) No one is free from sin except Christ, which is what makes His sacrifice meaningful.

             I will pray that the truth of Romans 8:1 will be written on your heart: “For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus …”

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50. Kevin April 19, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    Thank you for your help. I read the referenced chapters as well as the articles you identified. Those passages, along with some of your other ones give me the only sense of understanding and assurance without the confusion which I have obviously been experiencing for 60 years.

    Kevin

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    1. doctrine Post authorApril 19, 2015 at 7:15 pm

       Kevin,
       May God continue to bless you and lead you the the truth. Grace and peace.

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51. Alan Smiley May 5, 2015 at 12:35 am

    Why would Jesus teach a Gospel that would become obsolete upon his death and resurrection? Why wouldn’t he teach a universal, unchanging Gospel during his brief earthly ministry? Should Red Letter editions of the New Testament bear a warning stating: “Verses appearing in red text were only valid during the period of 30-33 A.D. and have been superceded by the teachings in the Epistles of Paul”?

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 5, 2015 at 8:01 am

       Alan,
       The gospel of the kingdom would have continued had Israel repented. The Church and Paul’s gospel would have not have come into existance. But because Israel refused to repent, God initiated a plan He had kept unrevealed. He saved and commissioned Paul to become the apostle of the Gentiles and the founder of Christianity. The purpose of the book of Acts is to tell the story of Israel’s fall and how God created the Church, the body of Christ through Paul. Both the gospel of the kingdom and Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) were valid until the Council of Jerusalem. See my article, The Great Hinge, for more on this subject.

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52. Eric May 12, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    Jesus taught justification by faith alone, Paul/Saul did not, but instead taught abstinence from the desires of the flesh in order to inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus compared himself being lifted up (John 3) just as Moses had lifted up a snake-on-a-pole in the desert (Numbers 21), so that all who behold the very thing killing them i.e. Jesus (God in the flesh) and our own sins and God’s wrath taken out in the body/blood of the Son of God/Man on a tree, will live forever and never die (or even though they die, they will live).

    Saul/Paul never taught Jesus as a snake-on-a-pole, which is the foundation of our faith.
    Why? Because it is too powerful. It shows God’s grace towards us, that we don’t have to do anything (or prove anything such as our repentance as being real) in order to receive God’s grace towards us in the person of Jesus Christ, God’s only begotten son.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 12, 2015 at 3:16 pm

       Eric,
       Jesus never taught salvation by faith alone in His earthly ministry (Matthew 19.16-22). Salvation by faith alone was unknown until the glorified Lord revealed it to Paul (Romans 1.16, 3.22, 28, 4.5; Ephesians 2.8-9, etc.).

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53. mimi May 14, 2015 at 12:20 am

    Comparing paul with the other 12 apostles is ok…but how do you dare to compare paul with our
    Lord
    Jesus … neither paul nor the 12 apostles crucified for us …

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 14, 2015 at 8:02 am

       Mimi,
       No one can compare to the Lord. He is the Lord. What Paul wrote came from the risen, glorified Christ. The Twelve received their teaching from Jesus in His earthly ministry. Paul received his teaching from Jesus in heaven.

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54. mimi May 14, 2015 at 12:30 am

    Christ was sent by the father to save not only jews but the whole nations of the earth …this was clearly written on the old testament sriptures &on the gospels as well….
    Jesus told the 12 apostles to preach the gospel to the whole nation of the earth …luke 24 :46-48 .
    Peter was the first to.preach the gospel to the gentiles…the disciples was preaching the gentiles before paul’s conversion…acts chapter 8….who preached the gospel to that ethiopian nuch ….paul ???….

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 14, 2015 at 8:07 am

       Mimi,
       Yes, He was. But the Old Testament did not reveal this. Can you find any Scripture in the Old Testament or the gospels to support this? Did the 12 apostles ever go to the nations? What Scriptures demonstrate this? See Acts 11.19 and Galatians 2.7-9. The Ethiopian was as Jew who served as Candace’s CFO. He had come to Jerusalem to worship and as he returned was reading Isaiah (Acts 8.27-28).

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55. Roger Spielmann May 17, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    I’m not sure if this is the proper forum for my question, but I’m curious: Do you have an article that explains how the letter of James fits in with Paul’s “gospel”? I would be interested in knowing how you reconcile the two. Here are some examples:

    James 1:22 — “Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” What is the “word” to which James is referring?

    James 1:26 — “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight reign on their tongues deceive themselves…Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

    James 1:12 — “Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom…”

    James 2:18 — “Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith BY my works.”

    James 2:20 — “…faith without works is useless.”

    I’m sure you have a way of reconciling the two (James and Paul), but I haven’t been able to find an article on this. I do have some thoughts that I’d like to hear you respond to.

    (1) As far as I can tell, Paul presents no biblical justification for contending that the time of Torah observance is over; he simply asserts that it is. I’m skeptical of anyone who claims to have a “corner on the truth” when it comes to God’s revelation(s), be it Paul or Joseph Smith or whoever.

    (2) Paul rarely (if ever) appeals in his letters to what Jesus said or did. He never mentions his teachings nor that he was a prophet. He just doesn’t care. He started a popular new religion (based on an ancient heritage which would appeal to a Roman audience) by proposing that you don’t have to DO anything to secure eternal life. Just “believe” that Jesus died for your sins and that God resurrected him from the dead. Simple. All the benefits with no real work.

    It seems clear to me that James is writing against this “new” gospel being promoted by Paul. When the book of Acts was finally written, we find a different picture of Paul than we do in his letters, wouldn’t you agree? In his letters Paul consistently attempts to distance his “gospel” from that of James, Peter and the rest of the apostles. The author of Acts, many years later, attempts to harmonize the two gospels so as to appeal to as wide an audience as possible; both Jews and Gentiles. The author of Acts’ creativity is amazing. He links Paul’s gospel back to an ancient religion (Judaism) and an historical figure (Jesus) so as to appeal to his Roman audience in order to gain as many converts as possible.

    And isn’t that, after all, what it’s all about? Power. Prestige. Wealth. Fame. The more things change the more they remain the same.

    Sorry for the diatribe. I get carried away sometimes.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 17, 2015 at 3:43 pm

       Roger,
       See my article, Faith vs. Works in James: Resolving the Problem.

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56. Roger Spielmann May 18, 2015 at 6:41 am

    Thank you. I am totally embarrassed that I missed that article. There it was all along. I apologize for taking up your time, I really am.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorMay 18, 2015 at 7:41 am

       Roger,
       No apology necessary. Easy to overlook.

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57. Roger Spielmann May 26, 2015 at 10:02 am

    I’m not sure which forum I should ask this question, but it does continue the conversation that appears in the “homosexuality” forum.

    Perhaps Paul did encounter the risen Christ. Or perhaps he didn’t. Looking at the current state of worldwide Christianity, it seems evident that something is terribly wrong. Certainly Paul seemed to be confused about things a number of things in his letters. For example, he indicated that that there was no problem eating meat sacrificed to pagan idols (1 Cor. 8:8). He clearly lacked awareness that there had (supposedly) been a conference in Jerusalem that expressly prohibited Gentile converts from eating food sacrificed to idols. Was not Paul clearly in violation of the terms put down at the Jerusalem conference?

    I could provide more examples where Paul seems to contradict himself, but your response to this one question should suffice. Thank you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorMay 26, 2015 at 1:33 pm

       Roger,
       Read the next verse and you will have the answer (1 Corinthians 8.9).

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58. rodd June 5, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    Sir, 2 comments to be considered. Acts ch 1 Peter states the replacement of Judas as the 12 th apostle ( Rev ch 21 v 14 – 12 apostles of the Lamb) had to be witness to Jesus’ life and crucifixion and resurrection. Matthias was chosen after prayer. Paul did NOT know Jesus, nor ever met Him. Paul’s Unwitnessed encounter is NOT verified by any other. John ch 8 v 16-18 Jesus declares ” 2 men” is ESSENTIAL.
    2) the word “JEW” is 18th century. No Bible prior to then existed with the word “Jew”. ( 1611 King James did NOT include the word and the KJ was revised in 1769 when the word was entered. ( and still only first appears in any Bible in 2 Kings ch 16 v 6….a 1000 years after Sinai )The word which was substituted by “Jew” was “Iewe” and its definition was a “resident of Judaea…no matter race or religion or ethnicity. Acts ch 2 Peter tells us that those in Jerusalem were from all over the world. Obadiah tells us that Edomites moved into the now deserted Kingdom of Judah when the Judahites were in exile. Those Edomites ( of Esau ..God’s enemy ) were also Jews !
    Judaea (Babylonian province of Judaea) only existed AFTER the Judahites were taken into exile..about 586 BC ..and was renamed by Rome to Palestine after Jesus’ time on earth…much later. ie. no Jews before the exile !!!)
    The definition of a “Jew” has been deceitfully changed since 18th century. Jesus in John ch 8 v 33 proves this..ie they are of Abraham but never in bondage.. Israelites were in bondage in Egypt and Assyria or Babylon…these Edomite Jews were NOT ! John ch 8 v 44 tells us what JESUS thought..and said..of these people. Rev ch 2 v 9 and Rev ch 3 v 9 is referring to those even today who claim they are Jews..ie converts ( Khazar and Ashkenazis ..with no bloodline to Israel. Jesus is our SOLE Teacher Matt ch 23 v 8 and 10.. John ch 5 v 43 may be a clue regarding Paul!!! ( or Rev ch 2 v 2 ..apostle to the Ephesians ! and so much more !!!)
    Sincerely, and from one who looks ONLY to Jesus as our Teacher…. “If you love me, keep my commandments”…”the unfruitful branch will be cut off and burned ” (Both these comments seem to contradict the teachings of Paul ! Law and grace alone.) ) Happy to expand on these topics !!! rodd

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 5, 2015 at 4:53 pm

       Rodd,
       Paul witnessed the resurrected Lord who saved and commissioned him as the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9, 22, 26). His apostleship was further authenticated by Ananias, Peter, Luke, and many others. If what you have written is correct then only the Gospels are valid. Peter addressed all Jews at Pentecost (Acts 2.36). James addressed all Jews in his letter (James 1.1). Without the Lord’s revelations to Paul we have no Christianity. We only have Judaism. Jesus ministered to Jews, not Gentiles. He came to offer the kingdom of God to Israel. Only through Paul do we learn of the Church, the body of Christ, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead for our salvation, etc. You will find no Church and no gospel of grace in the Gospels. These revelations came from the Lord after His resurrection to Paul alone. If you wish to obey Christ, follow Paul. Apart from his teachings one is without hope, without Christ, and without eternal life.

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59. rodd June 5, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    My apologies, may I add to my previous offering, please? Reading the comments, I notice it is claimed that Paul was the first to be sent to the “Gentiles”. Actually that is not quite true ! One could argue that Noah tried to warn his country folk of God’s intentions, but certainly Jonah was sent to Nineveh…and Jesus “sent” the woman at the well of Jacob back home.. knowing she would report what had happened to her…and many accepted Jesus !! V.39 of John ch 4..a wonderful story ! (Samaritans were not Israelites but people from Assyria whom the King of Assyria had sent into that land to fill it. ( 2 Kings 17 v 24) ( previously the Kingdom of Israel -then in exile ). The northern kingdom were of 10 tribes which never returned. These Israelites, once released from exile in Assyria, fulfilled the covenant God made with Abraham ie that his seed will be a blessing to all the nations of the world….indeed ( Gen ch 12 v 3 ) every family on the earth. Guess what folks? !! We are Abraham’s seed …and Matt ch 15 v 24…Jesus came for us !!.the lost ( exiled) sheep of Israel !! And we will be reunited as Jer.ch 31 tells us…AT THE 2nd COMING of OUR LORD. WE are the descendants of the chosen people ( Jacob/Israel) spoken of in Deut. ch 7. v 6. ( Note the New Covenant…[yet to happen.. Jer ch 31 v.34..when all shall know God !] is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah) ( Jer. ch 31 v. 31 ) exactly the same as the Old Covenant…the House of Israel and the House of Judah..together make the House of Jacob. Ex ch 19 !
    Ez ch 37 v 21 tells of this reunification ! Ignore much of the teachings of the apostate church ( and secular propaganda and outright lies) and then the Bible starts to make sense !!!
    You will realize from my comments that profound change must be made in our present understandings as to what is actually true. If an Iewe is a Judaean…and an Iewe is a Jew, ( as it was originally ) then Jesus, being a Galilean..and NEVER a resident of Judaea, [ likewise His disciples except Judas] then none of them were Jews ! ( John ch 7 v 1, John ch 11 v 54, John 20 v 19..behind locked doors for fear of the Jews). Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea to fulfil the prophecies eg Gen ch 49 v 10..but never lived there. He directly went to Egypt for safety from Edomite Herod and from there went directly to Nazareth, Galilee – to be His home on earth.
    He only went to Jerusalem for Passovers and in His teaching. There were many Israelites in Galilee…from the returning Judahites and Benjaminites who found Judaea overcrowded or unwelcoming, whatever! so they went north..beyond Samaria – then no longer of Israel – and settled in Galilee. Discern the scriptures and leave our nets – or nest ! and Follow Jesus ONLY – that is sufficient ! Thank you. rodd.
    ( I won’t expect this to be published…but , of course, it would be good if it were !!) r.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 5, 2015 at 7:02 pm

       Rodd,
       Jesus did not have a ministry to Gentiles nor did the Twelve. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles, an office given to him by the risen Lord (Romans 11.13). Representatives of all 10 tribes of the Assyrian captivity moved south. This is well documented in the Scriptures. Thus, Peter addressed all Israel at Pentecost. James wrote to the 12 tribes. None of the tribes were “lost.” In Revelation, they are identified also. Originally, the term “Jew” referred only to Jews of Judea. Later, its definition broadened and included all Jews. It and “Israel” are synonymous. See http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3064&t=KJV.

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60. grace June 9, 2015 at 10:09 am

    hi . I accidentally just read this article. and it surprise me cos its almost exactly the same revelation that my pastor preached recently and I immediately forward to him and he was happy to know that it confirms his faith too. were blessed reading the same revelation that we have. he wanted me to ask your contact info too. pls send me an email. thanks and God bless everyone! :)

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 9, 2015 at 11:36 am

       Grace,
       Thank you. My contact information is on the menu below the picture. It’s nice to find others who understand Paul’s unique apostleship.

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61. John June 22, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    I really found this website fascinating and helpful in many ways, thank you. I have one question: according to Gordon Conwell there are about 45,000 denominations worldwide and that number is expected to rise to 55,000 in ten years. How many of today’s denominations take their ‘doctrines’ from Paul and how many take their ‘doctrines’ from Jesus? I suspect that most differences, whether it’s in how a denomination governs its affairs, come from Paul, for Paul’s teachings were difficult then and they are now. Thanks for your time.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJune 22, 2015 at 1:13 pm

       John,
       Thank you. The statistic reveals just how much confusion exists in Christendom. Most denominations are a syncretistic mixture of Jesus and Paul. Because the kingdom program and the Church program were different one cannot mix them without doing harm to both. When one does, another denomination is created. You may enjoy my recent article, A Conversation With Paul. Grace and peace.

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       1. John August 19, 2015 at 9:47 am

          I enjoyed the ‘conversation’ with Paul. If only, right? I’d have a lot of questions myself.

          I do wonder, remembering a few months after I read it, about your use of the word secret. There are a lot of implications in the word, some of which question intentions. I don’t doubt for a minute Peter and James and John really believed Jesus was going to return once and for all in their lifetimes and as they came closer to their deaths they waxed poetic and still weren’t sold on Paul’s new ‘heaven.’ Was it really a secret, if so, then the apostles were misled and that couldn’t be, could it. I don’t know and I didn’t infer ‘waxing poetic’ as demeaning in any way to the divinity of their words, but describing the relationship with our concept of time and God’s concept of time is found in ancient Hindu theology written a thousand or two years earlier. And John’s revelation, well we could say a lot about that, couldn’t we? In a way, the new heaven did come to him, metaphorically or in real panoramic vision.

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          1. doctrine Post authorAugust 19, 2015 at 2:16 pm

             John,
             Everything falls into place if one keeps separate the Twelve’s ministry to Israel according to God’s prophetic program and Paul’s ministry to Gentiles, who compose most of the Church, the body of Christ. Mixing these two programs results in contradiction and confusion–the status of theology in most of Christendom. Paul’s “Mystery” may be helpful in explaining Paul’s “secrets.” John saw the future and what he saw will happen. The events of Revelation are literal but revealed in the symbolic language of the prophets. The Lord did not return because Israel did not repent (Matthew 23.37-39).

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    2. Peter Kefka June 24, 2015 at 10:53 am

       I need to forgive Paul myself, He was an apostate for part of his life, however his message is important.
       I apologize John

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62. Vanessa July 21, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Good Evening,
    Just when I thought all was well I was handed an article to read written by Bob De Waay.
    My heart sank as I read his article on Feldick and the Hyperdispensationlism and the Authority of Christ. Talk about feeling down.
    In this article he makes some very compelling remarks against what I am busying studying and it has confused my Husband and I so much. When Jesus said on this rock I shall build my church, referring to Peter the church was the Jewish church yet today it is not standing so Jesus had it wrong when he said that. AND that is hardly the case. What did Jesus then mean when he said that to Peter? This is just the beginning of many more questions to follow. I appreciate any help that you can give us but we need to check out that what we are understanding is not false. Thank you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 21, 2015 at 12:37 pm

       Vanessa,
       Mr. De Waay is confused about many things. His article, Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ, contains too many errors to enumerate. Please see my recent article, On This Rock. Ironside repudiated many of the things he himself taught in his work, Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth. Stam documented this in his book, The Controversy (Holding Fast the Faithful Word). This is a helpful book to read. Mr. DeWaay fundamentally misunderstands the gospels and the book of Acts. Please see my article, The Purpose of the Book of Acts.

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63. Vanessa July 21, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Thank you Thank you Thank you.
    In acts 17 verse 30 and 31 Paul indicates that all men every where should repent. Could you explain what do these verses mean. In acts 20 verse 24 and 25 Paul indicates that he went about preaching the Kingdom. What is he talking about.
    Then in Acts 26 verse 20 Paul says that they should repent and and turn to God, performing deeds appropiate to repentance. Could you explain further. Thanking you.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 21, 2015 at 4:53 pm

       Vanessa,
       This is a good question. In Paul’s letters, we only find him telling unbelievers to repent once (Romans 2.4). The other times he addressed believers. So for Paul, repentance was an issue for believers. So why do we find it in Acts? The answer is in two parts. One, repentance is clearly necessary for unbelievers. But Paul’s emphasis was on believe, not repent. Whenever Paul spoke of believe or faith for salvation he meant faith alone. This was new. Faith had always been required for salvation but before Paul salvation required both faith and works. Paul emphasized faith, not repentance because if one believes, he by definition, also repents. Second, Acts primarily concerns Israel and their failure. Luke wrote Acts to record the fall of Israel, not the birth of the Church. Paul explained this in Romans 9-11. Thus, since Acts is Jewish ground, like the Gospels, we still find a message of repentance for it was intrinsic to the gospel of the kingdom–the message to Jews. It is important to recognize that all of Paul’s doctrines recorded in his letters come after the Jerusalem Council in 51 A.D. That is when the gospel of the kingdom ended officially and Paul’s gospel alone went into effect (Acts 15.11; Galatians 1.6-9). In Ephesians 3.1, he stated he was the Lord’s prisoner, for Gentiles. Paul kept trying to go to Jews but his ending message in Acts 28 cured him. He finally understood they would not listen to him (as the Lord had told him, Acts 22.17-21). Put another way, the Lord put Paul in jail so he would focus on Gentiles, his primary ministry (Romans 11.13). Truly, God has a sense of humor–Paul, Pharisee of the Pharisees, going to Gentiles!

       Reply ↓
64. Jack S. July 21, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Hello Vanessa,

    Several months ago I also came across the same article by Mr. De Waay that you refer to in your post. It was disturbing and Don referred me to a refutation of the original De Waay article as seen here: http://www.midactstruths.com/2009/04/02/in-answer-to-hyperdispensationalism-and-the-authority-of-christ/

    I also read the Stam book suggested above by Don and it is great, and it shows that this is not a new fight. Paul has warned us about false teachers and false gospels and they are rampant. I have yet to find a church in the Boise, ID area that does NOT teach Covenant Theology, a teaching that takes OT and NT passages, puts them in a blender on high, and uses any verse to back their denominational beliefs, as Les Feldick describes the process.

    We are on an uphill journey that will not end until the rapture! With the above information the Holy Spirit will help you sort this out.

    Grace and peace….Jack
    Meridian, ID

    Reply ↓
65. Dave July 22, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Hi Don,

    I can see the sense in what your article says. It does clear up the differences between Jesus and Paul, which can be a stumbling block for most people. But can you tell me why Jesus was hated by the Pharisees if he was merely advocating following the Mosaic Law? I always thought he was hated because he was contradicting it in some sense—at least that is what traditional Christianity teaches.

    I accept that many of his gospel statements are certainly law-based, which, incidentally, makes it even more puzzling why he was hated. Or was he hated only because he said he was the Son of God? But if that was the case, weren’t the Jews expecting their messiah to make such a claim, and if so why were they so shocked? Or was he hated simply because he called the Pharisees hypocrites?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 22, 2015 at 1:53 pm

       Dave,
       Good questions. They SHOULD have known and accepted Him. The opposition has several facets. Remember, they rejected John the Baptist also. Israel rejected all the prophets (cf. Luke 20.9-19). Jesus revealed the heart of the Law in addition to the letter. Jesus provided the correct interpretation of the Law rather than “tradition.” Their power and control was based upon their administration and interpretation, not an untrained outsider’s. Jesus threatened this. He had confounded them when He was 12. Some were happy with their lives as they were and did not want the kingdom of God. Satan also had a role in producing blindness. Some loved their religion but hated the truth. Religion is never spoken of favorably in the Scriptures. The simple answer to your question is that things are no different today. Salvation today is as simple as God could make it: Believe Paul’s gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Faith + 0. Effortless. Why is not everyone a Christian since salvation is so easy? The answer is that most do not want the truth. Precious few believe (Matthew 7.13-14).

       Reply ↓
66. Dave July 23, 2015 at 6:28 am

    Thanks for clearing that up, Don.

    Can you also tell me if there are any teachings of Jesus in the gospels that are still valuable for us to follow today? I’m specifically thinking of his saying that we should love our enemies, turn the other cheek and be kind and generous to others etc. Do these things still apply to us, even if they are only deeper understandings of the law?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 23, 2015 at 7:42 am

       Dave,
       Study Paul. Most of these things he repeated. We are under God’s moral law but not the Mosaic Law, that is, under its administration. We are under the administration of faith, hope, love in concert with the Holy Spirit. See my article, Paul and the Law.

       Reply ↓
67. doctrine Post authorJuly 27, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    Jim,
    Why would you think Jesus changed His plan? He knew the Jews would reject Him and that He would go to the cross. His ultimate mission was to die for the sins of the world and rise from the dead. The whole OT is nothing more than a preparation for Him to rule the earth (Psalm 2; Zechariah 14.9; cf. Matthew 6.10, 19.28). The will of God cannot be thwarted by men. When He returns He will establish His kingdom on the earth and all the prophecies will be fulfilled.

    Reply ↓
68. Ronnie July 29, 2015 at 2:31 am

    In the beginning of your article, you wrote, Paul did not preach the kingdom. How do you reconcile this with Acts 20:25 – ….I have gone about preaching the kingdom….

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 29, 2015 at 7:37 am

       Ronnie,
       Please see my article, The Kingdom of God. The kingdom found in the gospels is the earthly kingdom in which Israel would be preeminent among the nations of the world. This is the theme of the Old Testament. We find no evidence Paul preached this. He preached the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20.24) and for Paul the kingdom was heavenly.

       Reply ↓
69. Jon July 30, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Reading this post makes me even more certain, “Paul” was not a true Apostle. Everything in he’s teaching screams problematic for me. He’s teaches comes though like confusión and the most High is not the author of such things.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorJuly 30, 2015 at 11:34 am

       Jon,
       One problem with the conclusion Paul was not a true apostle is you have to also throw out Peter, James, the rest of the Twelve, Silas, Timothy, and many others. Peter, at the end of his life, wrote his readers (believing Jews) that Paul was “our beloved brother, that his letters were Scripture on par with the OT, and to follow his teachings (2 Peter 3.14-16). Paul always began his letters with something like, “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God.” Throughout his writings, he stated his doctrines were by revelation of Christ–they came from direct communication with the risen Lord. What one must see is that Jesus’ earthly ministry was to Israel, not to Gentiles. He had no ministry to Gentiles. Nor did the Twelve. The risen Lord commissioned Paul as “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Romans 11.13). Paul is the source of all doctrine to the Church, the body of Christ, and the founder of Christianity. Once one understands this, conflicts end.

       Reply ↓
70. Bruce W August 27, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    Don,

    It’s obvious from at least some of the responses, ‘old theology dies hard.’ People just can’t wrap their noggins around anything that doesn’t jive with their preconceived notions regarding salvation and what they were told by misinformed pastors, teachers, evangelists and elders… who of course received their misinformation from the same, infinitum.

    Reading and understanding the Bible is completely tainted by what men say it says. Even worse, most don’t even read the bible and accept wholeheartedly lock, stock and barrel what’s fed to them. The Gospel message has become in essence nothing more than a hodgepodge of misinformation. Uniformity in the message does exist but it’s the wrong gospel. Bad exegesis, tradition, dogma, misconceptions, so-called expert comments and extra biblical revelations now supplant the simple truth of the gospel of Grace.

    It’s very sad that the truth was obviously lost with the death of Paul and his most faithful co-workers. It’s disheartening to me to see that so-called Christ followers are the most ardent despisers of Paul’s ministry and message. IMO, Roman Catholicism has tainted Christianity for the last two millennia for they hate Paul’s truths.

    I have a Twitter ministry and I expect push back from unBelievers but my biggest detractors are so-called Christians. Like the Pharisees that despised the early Jewish followers of Christ, (Paul, included) these spiritually blind Christians(?) are zealous for a gospel message that does Not save.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorAugust 28, 2015 at 7:44 am

       Bruce,
       The Christian Myth has been promoted for over 1,900 years. It does die hard. It is hard for theologians, pastors, and individual believers to say, “I was wrong.”

       Reply ↓
71. Mike H September 4, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    Thank you for your article “Jesus vs Paul”. In the short time it took to read your article, You cleared up 40 years of confusion for me. I had no confidence sharing Christ because the Bible didn’t make sense, to many “contradictions”. I was believing, but not understanding. I never knew solid food could taste so good. I am excited in Christ again. I am reading my Bible again and sharing the good news. Thanks for tossing a pearl in my pond.
    Keep up the good work.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 4, 2015 at 7:11 pm

       Mike,
       Thank you for your kind words. May the Lord continue to bless you. Grace and peace.

       Reply ↓
72. Jack S. September 5, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    Just reading Mike H’s comment brought tears of joy to my eyes. I LOVE light bulb moments! Don, you are so humble. Thank You 70 times 7 for what you do.

    Jack
    Meridian, ID

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm

       Jack,
       Mike’s comment was pure joy. A taste of heaven.

       Reply ↓
73. Sherry September 8, 2015 at 11:19 am

    In your article, you stated, “Jesus and the Twelve ministered to Jews under the Mosaic Law and preached the gospel of the kingdom to fulfill the Old Testament prophesies of Israel’s earthly kingdom with the Messiah as King.”

    However, Jesus denied this when he was questioned by Pilate. “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
    Apparently both Jesus and His servants knew that He was not here for an earthly kingdom (according to Jesus’ words). Yet, you say that Jesus’s gospel was only for an earthly Israel that ended up not repenting and not receiving His earthly kingship which has now been postponed for a time in the future?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 8, 2015 at 12:06 pm

       Sherry,
       Jesus’ reply to Pilate was that His kingdom was not “of this world” which, grammatically is a genitive of source. In other words, Jesus told Pilate that the SOURCE of His kingdom was not from this world, not that it wasn’t upon the earth. We know this because Jesus instructed his disciples to pray, “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” This will be the fulfillment of the land promise God gave Abraham to which the Twelve looked forward (Matthew 19.28).

       Reply ↓
74. Vanessa September 11, 2015 at 12:19 am

    Hello Don,
    While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
    They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
    So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
    “John’s baptism,” they replied.
    Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all (Acts 19:1-7)
    This passage seems clearly to indicate that under the Old Covenant the Holy Spirit was not behaving in the same way as afterward. There had been no sealing, indwelling, or baptism of these disciples of John, people who were truly redeemed believers in God. It was not until Christianity was explained to them that the Holy Spirit came.
    What was Johns Baptism.???? is this referring to just Water Baptism with repentance.
    This is a follow up on an earlier question I sent a few minutes ago. And they spoke in tongues. Why. If tongues is not for today why are they speaking in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit.?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 11, 2015 at 7:44 am

       Vanessa,
       These passages are all Jewish. John’s baptism was water indicating repentance. Acts a transitional book which has as its purpose to explain Israel’s fall from favor and why the kingdom of God did not come upon the earth.

       Reply ↓
75. Vernon September 11, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Hi Don,
    Dear Don,
    Without sounding contentious, I am not satisfied with the answer given to Vanessa.
    If the those 12 disciples who knew John’s baptism were saved into the Kingdom; (which is what John preached) Why did they have to be re-baptized?
    They were indeed re-baptized…but my question is WHY?
    Was John’s preaching so inadequate that they needed to be baptized again?
    One gets the impression that there are two baptisms…John’s and the Kingdom’s.
    Please help me out on this issue.
    Thanx,
    Vernon.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 11, 2015 at 2:07 pm

       Vernon,
       In Acts 19, v. 5 continues v. 4. There was one water baptism. These men were not rebaptized. Paul gives a history of the experience of these believers. Thus, “And Paul said, John indeed baptized [with] the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him who was coming after him, that is, on Christ Jesus [and] when they heard were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Thus, Paul is saying that when they heard John’s message they were baptized. The issue for them when they met Paul was receipt of the Holy Spirit. To accomplish this, Paul laid his hands on them and “baptized” them (v.6). This “baptism” was waterless as is our baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4.5).

       Reply ↓
76. Vernon September 11, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    Don, thank you for your answer.
    Am I to conclude that the speaking in tongues was because the gospel of grace was not yet available? I ask because this is Acts 19 already any Paul was preaching his gospel to the Gentiles. Why would he not rather give them the gospel of grace?
    I feel like I am missing something here.
    Thanx,
    Vernon.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 12, 2015 at 8:53 am

       Vernon,
       They were already saved. They had been saved under John’s gospel. They didn’t need the gospel. They just did not have the Holy Spirit. Remember, Acts is primarily to explain to Jews the fall of Israel and why the kingdom of God did not come.

       Reply ↓
77. Frank October 19, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    I’m curious about the place of women in Paul’s gospel.
    Are they required to wear headcoverings?
    Are they allowed to preach in church?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorOctober 19, 2015 at 4:06 pm

       Frank,
       The head coverings were largely cultural and do not carry significant meaning in today’s society. The other question requires more study. I do not think I can provide a good answer at this stage.

       Reply ↓
78. pamela day October 31, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    you have outlined yourself …..and given reasons ……why PAUL WAS THE GREAT FALSE PROFIT !!!!!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 2, 2015 at 7:53 am

       Pamela,
       On the contrary, I have revealed the differences between the Lord’s earthly ministry to Israel and His heavenly program for the Church, the body of Christ. The doctrines of Christianity began with Paul which he received directly from the Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). Apart from Paul, Christianity does not exist. To reject Paul is to reject the risen Lord.

       Reply ↓
79. Jeremiah Jameson November 14, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    This is interesting.

    But this is gnosticism: it attempts to split the body of Christ into more than one section.

    Peter and Jesus spoke as if with one voice: that voice was the Holy Spirit.

    To teach otherwise is to dispute most of both the Old and New Testament.

    But it is interesting. And it is a sign of the times in which we live.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 15, 2015 at 3:39 pm

       Jeremiah,
       The Scriptures are God-breathed. All Scripture is for us but not all is to us. What is to us, the Church, comes from Paul. Jesus ministered to Israel (Matthew 10.5-6; Romans 15.8). Everything in the Gospels pertained to Israel for the Church did not exist until Paul. Unless one keeps God’s program for Israel separate from His program with the Church, confusion reigns–which is the state of Christendom.

       Reply ↓
80. Jon November 19, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    I ‘m amazed, how people use Christ and and the definition, (meaning) , to be like him. Christianity talks about being like and doing what says , but neither Jesus nor his Disciples ever use the word Christian. He never taught he’s follower would be referred to as Christain. People up hold man full of pride and who lied for gain, treating he’s words as if it we’re the Messiah speaking himself. Paul to me spear to be a deceiver, someone Jesus warned us about on many occasions.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 19, 2015 at 3:27 pm

       Jon,
       Paul founded Christianity. Apart from him it doesn’t exist. From Paul we learn of the body of Christ, salvation by faith alone, being under grace, not Law, the Rapture, evangelism to Gentiles, the significance of the death and resurrection of Christ, etc. Apart from Paul’s gospel, one is without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life.

       Reply ↓
81. Joseph November 20, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Hello Don,

    I came across this distinction between the Body of Christ and The Jews about 3 years ago and it was earth shattering. You are correct my friend. Before this, growing up in church and honestly never reading the Bible for myself, I was never, by any preacher, ever explained this, which led to many contradictions and questions.

    Fully understanding this dispensation, the Word of God is crystal clear and refreshing.

    Another eye opener for me was the doctrine of election. Fully understanding the doctrine of election and the difference of context in scripture when it comes to “Who is the audience”, has been paramount in my christian walk, that great race.

    My research with the scriptures in literal context and reading, along with research in 2000 years of history concerning the Roman papacy and the Jesuit order, has blessed me immensely in understanding a lot of what is happening today, and what is going to happen.

    I thank you for your study and effort, it’s good to see a man of God preaching the Gospel :)

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 20, 2015 at 3:14 pm

       Joseph,
       Thank you!

       Reply ↓
82. Jama November 23, 2015 at 3:09 am

    Jesus vs paul ……. open your eyes and your mind 4 a minute for the truth jesus was the real messiah for isreal and he was a jew he was not a god or son if god but a man who sent by god like moses paul was a fake prophet
    Founded christinity with help of his disciples changed the bible

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 23, 2015 at 7:51 am

       Jama,
       Jesus declared He was God. He received worship, stated He was the “I am” of Exodus 3.14 (cf. John 8.53-58). Paul received his doctrine by revelation from the risen Christ (Galatians 1.12). Use your mind. Why would Paul go against everything he had? He had wealth, position, and power. He lost it all and suffered tremendously to follow Christ.

       Reply ↓
83. Lindiwe Jele November 23, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Hi there,

    if the law is not to be obeyed what does Romans 3:31 mean? Do we, then, abolish law by means of our faith? Not at all! On the contrary, we uphold law.+

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 23, 2015 at 8:07 am

       Lindiwe Jele,
       Paul explains this concept further in Romans 6-8. The Law could only be kept by men controlled by the Holy Spirit. The Law, while holy, righteous, and good, excited sin. The problem was not with the Law but with us. We have a sin nature (old man, flesh) which, when it comes in contact with the Law rebels. By being under grace (Romans 6.14), under the control of the Holy Spirit, under the control of the new nature, one is able to keep the Law. So, it is the change of administration, from Law to grace, that makes keeping the Law possible. Duty is replaced by love.

       Reply ↓
84. Joseph Branscome November 25, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    This article comes as close as anything that I have seen , that compares to the teachings of Les Feldick . He was the first one to open my eyes to the differences in the two
    gospels spoken of by Paul in Gal. 2 : 7 .

    Reply ↓
85. Chris November 26, 2015 at 11:07 pm

    So since the Jews’ gospel focused on belief in the Messiah, repentance, and obeying the Law, and Gentiles were given the gospel of grace, are the Jews of today to live in accordance with the gospel of grace and forsake the Law, or rely on the Spirit to keep the Law?

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 27, 2015 at 8:52 am

       Chris,
       Everything today operates under the program God revealed to Paul. The kingdom of God on earth, which was the focus of Israel’s program, has been set aside for a time. Today, there is only Paul’s gospel, 1 Corinthians 15.1-4. When one believes this gospel, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is over. All become members of the Church, the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 10.32).

       Reply ↓
86. Yiskah November 28, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Wow…information overload! I did not even know that the teachings of Jesus and Paul differ and I have studied the New Testament quite diligently. To me it always seemed in harmony. How totally wrong I was. I have always relied on the wisdom and truth that God shares with us without reproach (James 1:5). Unfortunately Satan also disguises himself as light (2Cor 11:14). What a relief to know that we have the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit/Helper (Joh 14:26). Reading all this and trying to make out head or tail, does tend to leave one a bit spiritually insecure, but then I remembered what Jesus said – we need to become like children…have childlike faith (Mat 18:3) and He gives His hidden secrets to little children (Mat 11:25). Let us not get to consumed by the detail that we lose focus that the word is inspired by God. Lets take what we can and trust the supernatural intervention of God’s Spirit.

    At the end, our aim is to become like Jesus through Jesus, but understanding that just like Paul, we have many flaws that can only be rectified by the blood if Christ. Easy peasy!

    God bless you all for all your efforts in search of the truth.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorNovember 28, 2015 at 7:43 am

       Yiskah,
       Thank you. One has to keep God’s prophetic program for Israel separate from His program for the Church, the body of Christ. If one does this, most seeming contradictions and confusions vanish. If one does not, we have theological confusion, the present state of Christendom. Jesus came to present Himself as the Messiah of Israel and to fulfill the covenant promises (Romans 15.8). He did not come to found the Church or reveal revelations which concern it. The Church and its revelations He gave, not while on earth, but from heaven, to Paul. See my article, Paul’s “Mystery”.

       Reply ↓
87. Derrick December 4, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Hi Don, great article with Scriptural support!

    I noticed a couple grammatical errors in the following two sentences:

    But God in His mercy interrupted this kingdom program to bless Gentiles in spite of due Israel’s disobedience. In His matchless God grace delayed His wrath.

    *Feel free to edit out the mention of grammar errors.

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 4, 2015 at 3:17 pm

       Thanks!

       Reply ↓
       1. Derrick January 9, 2016 at 9:20 am

          Don, if you had to choose one article from the site that best summarizes the Gospel of Grace, which would you choose? I like pointing people here and it would be nice to have a specific article in which to begin. Thank you!

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 9, 2016 at 3:10 pm

             Derrick,
             Little hard to answer but understanding the gospel of the grace of God is where we must begin. So I would say, the article, The Gospel. It is short but shows the difference between the gospel of grace and the gospel of the kingdom and will lead one to other areas.

             Reply ↓
             1. Derrick January 9, 2016 at 10:56 pm

                Thank you, brother!

                Reply ↓
88. Kuhn Jun December 17, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Doctrine,
    As a Christian, here are some problems I am grappling with:

    The concept of having to accept Jesus as your personal Savior in order to go to heaven: Abraham, Noah, Moses and all the people BEFORE Jesus’ time would all go straight to hell. Correct? Because those people never knew Jesus, their bad luck for not knowing Jesus or being born in Jesus’ time. Real shame for them to be born before Jesus!

    The concept of the Trinity is totally against Deut. 6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” Trinity says three in one, Deut. 6:4 specifically says God is one (not three) there is no other…can’t be much clearer than that…

    God is committing rape with impregnating Mary against her will…did she ever was given a choice? No! She never gave permission! Statutory rape!!!

    Jesus’s ancestry cannot be traced using Joseph’s lineage. Because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Besides, Jews do not use the mother’s side to trace lineage, only the father’s. This makes Jesus as a descendant of king David invalid.

    The whole concept of atonement is barbaric. Either God loves us or He does not. Even human parents fare better than God in this sense. I love my kids even if they are bad. I don’t condemn them to hell if they stole things, or curse at me. I will still forgive them. They are mine, nothing they do will separate them from me, and thats a fact!

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2015 at 2:22 pm

       Kuhn,
       Your comments can be answered but I perceive you do not want answers. Your words reveal a heart of darkness which hates God.

       Reply ↓
       1. Kuhn Jun December 17, 2015 at 3:27 pm

          It is shameful you labeled me before giving me any answers. I have already been condemn hundreds of time before by my evangelical “Christians” online. Seems you are no different. Anyway, trust me my friend I do not hate God. Does my questions often you that much? Too stupid to be asked? I do believe they are valid questions. They are not indicative of a hateful person. I would not take the time to ask them if hate was the motivator. I just want clear and concise answers.

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm

             Kuhn,
             You accuse God of injustice, rape, lying, and barbarism and then are unhappy if others condemn your words. Who do you think you are to judge God? Is His love of you, His death for you insufficient? Are you so ungrateful that you reject His sacrifice? He could not have made salvation easier. All you have to do is believe Him. Believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) and live!

             Reply ↓
89. Kuhn Jun December 17, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    One more thing, Jesus himself taught Nicodemus that one must be “born again” to enter heaven. But according to you, Paul’s gospel teaches that one must believe Christ died for our sins to be saved. Can you explain this discrepancy…

    Reply ↓
    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2015 at 2:18 pm

       Kuhn,
       Read the article. It explains this.

       Reply ↓
       1. Kuhn Jun December 17, 2015 at 3:33 pm

          No your article does not addressed this. Either God loves me or he does not. God desires obedience not sacrifice according to scripture. Why does God need to operate under this “justice” system that the man Jesus has to be sacrificed to pay for my sins? Is not God above that universal law?

          Reply ↓
          1. doctrine Post authorDecember 17, 2015 at 7:04 pm

             Kuhn,
             God established the laws. The Bible declares God loves you. What more can He do than die for you? The wages of sin is death (Romans 6.23). You are under a death sentence and God paid your penalty so you can live. God has done all the work. All He requires is that you trust Him. That is by believing the gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). The choice is yours: life or death.

             Reply ↓
90. Roger Spielmann December 18, 2015 at 9:03 am

    I’m puzzled by Paul’s use of Scripture in his letter to the Galatians. In Galatians 3:10, for example, he references a curse from Deuteronomy 27:26 that curses everyone who fails to keep all the requirements of Torah. He uses this verse to make the claim that those who murder, cheat, steal, fail to observe the Sabbath, male circumcision, or Passover were “under the curse of God.” The problem, though, it seems to me, is that Paul quoted the passage correctly but makes the exact opposite point that he’s trying to make. Paul wants to make the point that anyone who follows the Law is “cursed.” The passage from Deuteronomy, however, curses those who do NOT keep the law. That is, Deuteronomy 27:26 curses the very position that Paul is advocating. What are we to make of Paul misusing Scripture?

    In the very same letter Paul cites Habakkuk to the effect that the righteous shall live by faith (Galatians 3:11). But again Paul seems to me to be distorting the meaning of Habakkuk. Six hundred years before Paul wrote Galatians Habakkuk had tried to rally his fellow Jews as the Babylonians were about to invade Judea and Jerusalem. Habakkuk understood that war would bring death, destruction, rape, pillaging and so on upon his people. He urged them to hold fast to the Law and traditional teachings. Habakkuk tells his fellow Jews that the righteous will live if they hold fast to Torah. Habakkuk’s use of “faith” is not about having beliefs in some religious figure but on being faithful to the Law. It seems to me that Paul completely misses the point in Habakkuk and substituted a different meaning in order to advance his movement.

    What are we to make of Paul misusing Scripture? These are not isolated instances. One merely needs to check out Paul’s other references to the Hebrew Scriptures in Galatians. If Paul is (deliberately?) misusing Scripture to buttress his argument that the Law is a “curse,” what are we to make of his credibility?

    Thank you for your consideration of this post.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm

       Roger,
       The last thing possible is he would misuse Scripture. He was taught it by Gamaliel, one of the greatest Rabbis who ever lived. He knew Judaism backwards and forwards. After that, he received doctrine from the ascended Lord. So no possibility of error exists. To understand how Paul dealt with the Law, see my article, Paul and the Law. His main point was that Israel was under the administration of the Law; the Church is under the administration of Grace (Romans 6.14). The Law had one primary purpose: to reveal sin. Failure to keep the Law meant condemnation. The long and short of it is that while the Law was the modus operandi of Israel, it is not for the Church. Christ redeemed us from the Law (Galatians 3.13). To place oneself under it is to place oneself under a curse and reject Christ’s work. One must distinguish between Israel and the Church. The Law was valid for the former, invalid for the latter. There is no contradiction, just different programs.

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91. Roger Spielmann December 18, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    Thank you for your response. I’m still puzzled, though. Are you saying that Paul correctly applied Deuteronomy 26:27 where it curses those who do NOT keep the Law? It seems obvious that Deuteronomy 25:27 curses those who do not keep the Law, but Paul uses it to promote his position that anyone who KEEPS the Law is cursed. We can’t have it both ways. Paul is trying to make the argument that those who observe Torah are “cursed,” yet he cites an Old Testament passage that claims the opposite. He quotes the passage accurately, but using that passage to support his claim that those who are under the law are “cursed” is exactly what the passage DOES NOT say. The same observation can be made concerning his use of Habakkuk in Galatians 3:11. It’s not a matter of which administration one is under. Paul is the one making an argument for ditching Torah, but the OT passages he uses to try to support his claim are saying the exact opposite. So it’s not a matter of contradiction, it is rather a matter of quoting a passage that says the opposite of what Paul is claiming. Perhaps Gamaliel would have been disappointed in the way Paul (mis)uses Scripture. We cannot know. We can see, however, that Paul’s use of the Deuteronomy and Habakkuk passages do not support his position. In fact, the passages he uses undermine his claim and distorts the clear sense of these passages.

    To summarize, Paul’s position is that anyone who follows the Law is “under a curse.” Readers (or listeners) who are not careful to look at the original texts and their contexts may be taken in, but if you look carefully, Paul’s argument is not supported by these passages. In fact, his position is undermined by them.

    would have been disappointed. So it’s not as issue

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 18, 2015 at 4:52 pm

       Roger,
       What Paul is saying is that the Law condemned. It revealed sin. What he was trying to teach the Galatians was that the Law 1)could not be kept and 2)had no power. They had not been justified by Law. They could not be sanctified by Law. Placing oneself under the Law’s administration was not the path of holiness for believers. It was a “schoolmaster” (Galatians 3.24) but grace is greater than Law. Undoubtedly, Gamaliel would have disagreed with Paul. But Paul understood Law more than his famous teacher. Why? Because his instruction was from the Lord Himself. Gamaliel, great as he was, was still an undergraduate. Paul went to graduate school. Read Paul and the Law.

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92. Roger Spielmann December 18, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    Thank you for your response. I’ll keep this post short and to the point.

    As a New Testament scholar, do you believe Paul’s use of Deuteronomy and Habakkuk in Galatians 3 supports the point he is trying to make? If so, how?

    I’d like to read what you think about those two passages and how, exactly, they support Paul’s argument.

    Thank you.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 19, 2015 at 9:45 am

       Roger,
       The primary theme of Habakkuk is faith. Habakkuk complained to God about the evil in his nation and God told him He would judge them with the Babylonians. This distressed him but God told him He would judge the Babylonians and finally deliver Israel. Habakkuk ends with his testimony of trust. So the main point of Habakkuk is trust. This is the point Paul makes with the Galatians. They began by faith (justification) and are to continue by faith (sanctification). The Law required obedience. Failure to keep it put one under the Law’s curse (Deuteronomy 27.26). Paul wanted that Galatians to understand that placing themselves under the Law would place themselves in a position of being cursed. The Law was bondage (cf. Peter’s statement in Acts 15.10). The Christian is under new administration: not Law, but Grace. Law, while holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7.12) can only condemn. Faith, grace, life by means of the Holy Spirit is a new, superior way.

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93. Ben Weaver December 27, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    Please pardon me, I have not read all the comments. Have you considered Heb.9:17? After the death of the testator, is when the covenant changed from old testament to new. The believers in the law of Moses were given a space of time before Paul said to the Jews, “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but, seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo we turn to the Gentiles.” (Acts 13:46) The teachings of Jesus were mostly to people who were not yet freed from the law of Moses by the death of the testator.

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    1. doctrine Post authorDecember 28, 2015 at 9:30 am

       Ben,
       Believing Jews continued to go to the Temple and follow the Law long after Jesus’ death. This fact caused the controversy in Acts 15 (51 A.D.). Read James’ statement to Paul in Acts 21.17-21 (57-58 A.D.).

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94. Chase January 1, 2016 at 10:36 pm

    Thank you for putting this article up. Many of the questions I have had for a long time were answered in the above correspondence.

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95. Alex January 5, 2016 at 1:21 pm

    I have to respectfully dis-agree with your position. You make the statement that Jesus taught by way of the Law while Paul taught grace, yet, the disciple John says that the Law came thru Moses and Grace & Truth thru Jesus Christ. This seems to say that God is BOTH just and merciful (his mercy coming in the form of the Lamb) AND we are indeed to love the Father and our neighbor by way of the eternal commandments written in stone (as Jesus himself commanded). I think that if one studies the books written by those who actually walked with Jesus, this is/was the Gospel of the early church. Paul seems to mix the Gospel (some truths) with other mystery religions being practiced in the Roman empire at the time, resulting in a religion/church now known as Roman Catholicism. I know this will not be a popular view with you, but one need only look at the current state of the churches which follow the ‘faith alone’ teachings, churches filled with divorce, multiple re-marriages, homosexuality, etc…, all in the name of grace. I don’t believe this is the fruit of a virgin bride.

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 5, 2016 at 1:38 pm

       Alex,
       Jesus is indeed the source of grace and truth. Yet He ministered under the law of Moses (Matthew 7.12, 8.4, 19.16-17; Luke 10.26-28). Paul wrote members of the Church, the body of Christ, are under grace, not the Mosaic Law (Romans 6.14). See my article, Paul and the Law. Paul received his doctrines directly from the risen Christ. If one has a problem with Paul, he has a problem with the one who taught Him–the glorified Lord. The Roman Catholic church is a mix of law and grace. This mixing began with the Judaizers, whom Paul combated. Grace is not the cause of divorce, homosexuality, etc. Read the Old Testament!

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       1. Alex January 5, 2016 at 1:57 pm

          Thank you for your kind and respectful response. This is what the Apostle John says: THIS IS THE LOVE OF God. THAT WE OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS AND THAT HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT BURDENSOME. I do not any longer go thru life feeling burdened by God’s commandments. Loving God and my neighbor (thru his commandments) is now my new nature, thru the teachings of Jesus and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The prodigal did not experience the father’s grace UNTIL ‘he came to himself’; until he recognized his condition. He REPENTED and returned to the Father where he found grace. He DID NOT find grace while CONTINUING to wallow in the mud amongst the pigs. My post is not to be argumentative, therefore, I will not trouble you more with additional responses.

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          1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 5, 2016 at 4:02 pm

             Alex,
             Interpretation of a passage requires one consider who wrote it, to whom was it written, the circumstances, etc. John wrote to Jews. He was one of the Twelve, an apostle of Israel. The “we” refers to Jews who came to believe Jesus was the Christ. This was not the Church, the body of Christ. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles, and the founder of the Church and what we call Christianity. The gospels are Old Testament, written about and to Jews. The gospels are FOR us but not TO us. Paul’s letters were written to the Church. Unless one understands the difference between God’s program to Israel and His program to the Church and confusion is the result. Understand Romans 15.8 and 2 Corinthians 5.16.

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96. courtney January 15, 2016 at 1:16 pm

    Bro. Don
    This article is well written, as solid as steel, a wonderfull exegisis in a timely manner. I thank our Lord and Saviour for servants like you. It has helped so many of us.You are my brother. Thank you

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 15, 2016 at 1:47 pm

       Courtney,
       Thank you for your kind, encouraging words.

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97. Maris January 19, 2016 at 3:39 am

    Hi.
    Was interesting and challeanging to read.
    Thanks for writing!

    My thoughts during reading and your 7 thesis table:
    1. Did not understand the difference. For me it seemed to be almost the same as second point.
    2. Wrong. (This kingdom was an earthly, political kingdom in which the Messiah would reign as King (Zechariah 14.9). ) Did Jesus came to be earthly King? Did Kingdom of God should be started like something similar as heaven on earth? When Pilate made sign – king of Jews, did he really think so? Pilate think more like – Jesus probably is spiritual head/ king / beginner/ for jews, even they dont like it or don’t accept. At least – Jesus claims to be jewish king, jews can agree or disagreee – thats what Pilate thinks, making the sign for cross. I understand that Kingdom from Jesus point was more like power change, spiritual change for people who live, becasue of what Jesus did.
    3. Wrong.They both say the same. (3. Presented Himself as Messiah and King of the Jews (Israel) 3. Presented Jesus as the risen Lord, Head of the body of Christ)
    4. Partially true. Can you imagine Jesus talking to Jews like Paul did to gentiles? Jews would TOTALLY disagree with him. Jews and Gentiles are 2 different audiences. So message is different, but that does not mean, that Jesus and Paul contradicts. (4. Preached repentance, baptism, and faith as necessary for salvation 4. Preached faith alone as necessary for salvation).
    5. Yes, thats true.
    6. Yes, thats true. (Still keep in mind, that Paul is human, who thinks in black and white, even Jesus was not so much in black and white as Paul).

    You helped me to open eyes on how Paul was thinking/viewing .
    Thanks a lot, great article!

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 19, 2016 at 8:00 am

       Maris,
       The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace were completely different. One was addressed to Jews under the Mosaic Law and pointed to an earthly kingdom. The gospel of grace was primarily to Gentiles (Jews were included) but was not under the Mosaic Law. It looked to a heavenly, not earthly, destiny. Everything in the Old Testament pointed to an earthly kingdom. Christ presented Himself as the King of that kingdom and came to fulfill Israel’s covenant promises (Romans 15.8). The Jews had no hope of going to heaven. Their hope lay in resurrection and being established in the land of promise. Paul was human but stated that the doctrines he taught had been received by direct revelation from the risen Christ.

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98. Dale January 31, 2016 at 2:36 am

    Thanks for this! This is hands down the best response I’ve read to the Paul vs Jesus gospel issue. Very well written and obviously carefully researched. Reading your responses and rebuttals to some of the comments has been just as educational and entertaining. Thanks!!!

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    1. doctrine Post authorJanuary 31, 2016 at 5:18 pm

       Dale,
       Thank you. Glad it was helpful.

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99. Joe February 2, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    Interesting how you treat Paul as infallible. When did the last infallible person write? What list of books included in what we call the Bible do you use? The standard 66 books? If so, why?

    Also, you use the word “saved” quite often. Saved from what? There are obviously a number of presuppositions underlying your use of the word saved, could you please tell us what they are? Such as saved from ECT? (eternal conscious torment) Saved from the wrath of God?

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    1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 2, 2016 at 5:25 pm

       Joe,
       God and His Word are infallible. The Holy Spirit superintended Paul’s writings as He did all the Scriptures. The standard 66 books have been recognized as the Scriptures. God superintended this selection. Salvation means salvation from sin and its penalty, death. Apart from Christ men continue to lie, cheat, murder, deceive, etc. Death is the consequence. Christ offers freedom from the slavery of sin and death.

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100. Dawn Sobczak February 2, 2016 at 7:47 pm

     Just an observation on some people that post here. Seems the teaching that the Bible is the infallible word of God is ignored all too often. If it isn’t infallible, then what good is any of it? Anyone can read anything into the Bible
     I write this to those who constantly seem to judge Paul’s motives. I hope they take this to heart.

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     1. drumbo February 2, 2016 at 11:30 pm

        Awesome point Dawn. I just made a long-winded comment above…that basically says what you did…lol. I should have read down and then just said…um yeah! What Dawn said!…lol This is a tough thing in today’s times to see, every one taking issue with the inspired writings. I see alot of folks who are outright rejecting the ” canon” based on how it was put together and by whom. I like to remind some who will be open, that before there was a “bible” or “canon”.. all of these works were still considered very much inspired, along with several that didn’t make it in, but are still quite available to those who feel the need to look. Our FATHER is the ultimate power in this world..UNIVERSE… I can’t believe that our enemy…who is older, stronger, smarter, and would love nothing more than to rule or destroy us, has been given the absolute, complete upper hand in all ways…. and that we humans who are quite apparently pretty naive and easily fooled…will be judged for not besting a being that’s possibly hundreds of thousands of years older, with an army to boot…with…NOTHING to help us learn? I just can’t believe that. I’m with you. YHWH either gave us these writings to help us, or HE didn’t….and if HE didn’t…. we are all doomed. As far as Paul goes, the Gospel given to him…saved my life… because it was GIVEN to him…by Jesus…. there are witnesses, well, if one believe’s the writings..lol. ( Here I go again…lol)

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     2. Grace Receiver February 3, 2016 at 12:09 am

        Thanks for that, Dawn! I was thinking of posting something along those same lines.
        You’re right: if we can’t trust God’s word, why even bother reading it?

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101. Matt February 16, 2016 at 6:16 pm

     I cant believe how blinded you all are. You are defending Saul over Yeshua??? You are all caught in a snare. God is testing us to see who we would follow. Yeshua even said that He comes in His Fathers name and you do not follow, but another will come in his own name and him you will follow. Saul admits he is a liar, he admits he is demon possessed, he admits that he used guile and deceit even though the bible says not to use guile ever. Revelations talks about Saul when Yeshua commended the Ephesians for not following the teachings of a false apostle. The only apostle to claim they were with the Ephesians was Saul. There are too many coincidences that cannot be ignored, and there are no coincidences with God. I think the first problem to over come your blindness is to learn the true name of God. The word jesus has no meaning. And if anyone tells you its a translation, that is a lie. Its a transliteration, which has no meaning.

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 17, 2016 at 7:39 am

        Matt,
        Apart from Paul’s gospel there is no salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Those who oppose Paul are enemies of Christ and His cross (Philippians 3.17-19) and are without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. The challenge before you is to believe the gospel and come to know the Savior.

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102. Roger Spielmann February 20, 2016 at 9:44 am

     Referring to JFollower’s comments from Feb. 18, 2016, you wrote, “One cannot be a Christian apart from Paul.” Many Messianic Jews I know personally would disagree with you. They distance themselves from Paul’s religion, are Torah observant, believe that Jesus was the Messiah, believe that God raised him from the dead and consider themselves within God’s fold. You classify them as “enemies of Christ.” How might you respond to them? Thank you.

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 9:53 am

        Roger,
        No salvation exists apart from Paul’s gospel of grace. To distance oneself from Paul is to distance oneself from God for Paul was God’s chosen instrument of salvation. In Christ, in the Church, there is no Jew or Gentile. While we retain racial and sexual distinctions (male/female) we are one in Him. Paul knew more of the Law than all the Messainic Jews put together. Stay with Paul if you want to understand the Law. Judaism in this age is over. Today, the grace of God is the program and the moral law is fulfilled by the indwelling Holy Spirit, faith, and love. That is the way to living a life pleasing to God. Other paths are fallacious.

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103. Roger Spielmann February 20, 2016 at 11:37 am

     Thank you. Just to be clear, are you saying that Messianic Jews are enemies of God (or, I should say, not living lives pleasing to God) and that their worship is fallacious? If so, would you apply the same description to “most of Christendom”?

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 12:44 pm

        Roger,
        Paul wrote Galatians to address the problem of Gentiles who had believed his gospel deserting grace for the Mosaic Law. Paul upbraided them and corrected them for leaving grace to place themselves under the Mosaic Law. “Cast out the bondwoman,” the Mosaic Law, he declared. He commanded them to “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” The yoke of bondage was the Law. Even Peter recognized this (Acts 15.10). Most of Christendom has failed to recognize the distinct ministry of Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles. They mix Law with grace and think God gave the 10 commmandments as a rule of life to make us better. They spend 90% of the time in the gospels which is the OT and has nothing to do with believers of Paul’s gospel and Christianity. Paul wrote, “The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law” (1 Corinthians 15.56). Most of Christendom has no idea what this means.

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104. Roger Spielmann February 20, 2016 at 12:08 pm

     I’ve read all your articles and I still wonder. As they say, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. You wrote, “Paul was God’s chosen instrument of salvation.” That is an extraordinary claim. Yet the evidence seems lacking. Why should we a priori trust that Paul actually had a vision from Christ? He evidently didn’t care or know much at all about the life, miracles and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth (based on his letters). Yet you seem to be saying that if we don’t trust Paul’s gospels we cannot be saved.

     My questions underlie my frustration. If “most of Christendom” is wrong about God’s plan of salvation (i.e. that we must follow Paul’s religion), then most Christians truly are (…hmmm, what word to use here that can be printed?) Lost, I guess.

     But how can that be? Certainly God *wants* people to “get it,” but you imply that most don’t. So you have your eighty-five year old grandma with her rosary beads and her life dedicated to honestly trying to serve God as a Christian, and then she finds out (in the afterlife) that she’s doomed to hell? Or, to use a less inflammatory example, one becomes a “born again” Christian without knowing anything about Christian theology. Surely they will enter the Kingdom of God, wouldn’t you agree? And, that being the case, they continue on in faith but never “get it” that Paul’s gospel is the one to follow. Then what? If they’re lost, then salvation would boil down to to believing a certain set of “correct” dogmas. Is that how you see it?

     Let’s have a reality check. Some people are fortunate to have been born into a Christian family and brought up Christians, others born into other faiths (or no faith) may eventually become Christians (or not), and so on. But the reality is that we’re all in this together as human beings trying to figure out how to commune with God under varying life circumstances. Isn’t it the “trying to figure it out” enough for God to count that as faith? It makes sense to me when all is considered. How about you?

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 12:49 pm

        Roger,
        We’ve covered this ground. Can salvation be more simple than believing Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead? Who cannot do this? If one desires to know God, God will reveal Himself. He not going to hide Himself from someone who wants to know Him after all the suffering He endured to ensure salvation. This is straightforward logic. But only God knows hearts. We cannot.

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105. Roger Spielmann February 20, 2016 at 1:09 pm

     Yes, we have covered this ground. But the questions press, which implies we’re talking past each other. Your responses seem, at times, evasive. I don’t think any of your readers are trying to “trip you up.” Well, some are, but as far as I can tell your readers are very sincere. I will go back over previous back-and-forths that we’ve had and try not to revisit the same things over again, save one that reflects my reality: If one believes that merely believing in the death and resurrection of Christ is enough (I Cor. 15:3-2), but also believes other stuff is important, too (e.g. Observing the Law, strictly keeping the Sabbath, etc.), does believing that “other stuff” negate the fact that they believe the gist of Paul’s gospel? Thank you.

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 20, 2016 at 4:23 pm

        Roger,
        I think the charge of evasive is faulty. My responses have been straightforward. But I won’t argue further. Let’s be clear. Salvation today is by putting one’s trust in the fact that Christ died for one’s sins and rose from the dead. Anything added to this negates salvation. There is no faith + something. It is faith + 0 for salvation.

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106. Vanessa February 21, 2016 at 12:32 am

     Hello All, I have read the above comments and would like to add this. The road to hell is paved with sincerity and good intensions but this does not get you to heaven. Roger, I was once one of those “Trying to figure it out” Christians and yes I thought I had faith plus all the other things. Tithes, Christmas parties, tongue talking, visions, dreams, Often said the Holy Spirit said this to me and that to me, healing, and I know now I was following another Jesus till I was shown the truth via Gods word. Had the rapture have happened when I was a “Trying to figure it out ” Christian, would I have made it. No. Why. I was following Jesus of Nazareth instead of the Risen Lord. I relied on my emotions and my own head knowledge. I gave lip service. The questions you ask of Don have been my own questions. I dont have the answers for other peoples walk with the Lord but I know this, that all through history God has kept for himself a remnant and I am so grateful I am counted as one of them. I believe that few will get raptured but millions will be saved during the 7 years, so in a way again God will give man another chance but salvation wont be free. Yes, I now follow Pauls Gospel but continue to study and look at the rest of the bible for teaching purposes. I cannot stomach those who still follow the law (harsh) but its drivel they speak and Gods standard is not drivel. I see Christendom as doomed but the Body of Christ is alive and will soon to be taken out of this world. We have no business adopting and claiming Israels blessings and her time table. The hardest thing we grappled with was that the most of Christendom was doomed. Now as we talk to other so called Christians we see that the church is in a mess and its getting worse. We have absolutely nothing in common with our previous Christian friends and no we dont assume we are better. We are so grateful that God rescued us from a false system. Wow now that was Gods Grace. Take care.

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107. Roger Spielmann February 21, 2016 at 10:46 am

     Hi, Vanessa. Thanks for your post. I try hard to love God with my heart, soul, body –and mind. I do believe that we’re expected to try hard to “figure these things out.” So when one runs across an explanation that doesn’t make sense, one ought to ask God for guidance in order to fully understand it, wouldn’t you agree? And then use our minds to try and figure it out. Such is life.

     We all rely on scholars and experts — those who know more about the original languages than we do and spend their lives trying to communicate what they know (as Doctrine does). No scholar or teacher is right all the time about all things. No one has a corner on the truth, as attested by the thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations in our world today all claiming to have “the Truth” to the exclusion of everyone else. I trust you don’t fall into that kind of thinking, Vanessa. That would seem to me to be the ultimate arrogance.

     I’m comfortable and yet still constantly challenged in my relationship with God. At one point you wrote, ” I don’t have the answers for other peoples walk with the Lord but I know this, that all through history God has kept for himself a remnant and I am so grateful I am counted as one of them. I believe that few will get raptured but millions will be saved during the 7 years, so in a way again God will give man another chance but salvation wont be free.” How do you “know” this? You provide no scripture references and your logic goes against the theme of God’s revelation in the Bible (2 Peter 3:9); I Cor. 15:22, among others). My point is that you seem to have put your faith in the hands of others. One should ask oneself: “Do I know *why* I believe *what* I believe? Do you merely latch onto a teacher or teachers and believe whatever they say? If so, that’s not true faith, wouldn’t you agree? Scholarship and teachers are important to us in all areas of life, but a priori accepting what they teach is, as Doctrine is fond of saying, “A Fool’s Errand.”

     The reason so many people are turned off by Christianity today is because Christians claim certainty. No one has certainty. We are all, ultimately, agnostic about metaphysical reality. We just don’t know. If we did, then there would be no reason for having “faith.”

     Sorry to rain on your parade, Vanessa. I don’t even know you and here I am talking to you as a family member! I apologize for that. But my main concern is that people of faith ought to know why they believe what they believe, and to realize that it is by faith we are saved, not by certainty.

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 21, 2016 at 2:12 pm

        Roger,
        Do you really think people dislike Christianty because Christians claim certainty? Do people dislike science because it states with certainty that the earth revolves around the sun? The issue is epistemology, how we know what we know. Science operates on observation and replication. But science covers only a small part of reality. History, news, the Bible operate on authority; we consider a source trustworthy. Why do we believe George Washington was the first U.S. president? Because of authority. I can’t prove it scientifically. So do people dislike Christianity because Christians trust God? That is closer to the truth.

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108. Roger Spielmann February 21, 2016 at 7:47 pm

     In my experience, it is precisely because Christians claim certainty when no such thing exists that casues thousands of would-be “converts” to walk away. Human beings are all in this together and have access to the same knowledge, scientific findings, human expressions ands experiences as anyone else. Having certainty about God, his plan(s), anything metaphysical — even the existence of God — is a fool’s errand. Otherwise, what need would there be for faith? It’s the greatest barrier to mom-believers when told that “I know the truth and you don’t.” Everyone has the same data in this world about God — about anything — but in the metaphysical world Christians claim exclusive certainty. Why not admit we’re all in this together and that we all begin our spiritual journey as agnostic. Starting at any other starting point, it seems to me, is intellectually dishonest.

     My point? When one hears unsupported claims like Vanessa’s, it turn people away from the truth rather than gently and humbly pointing them *to* the Truth, wouldn’t you agree?

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     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 21, 2016 at 9:12 pm

        Roger,
        I think you misunderstand the nature of Christian faith. It is not blind. It is based upon evidence. The OT and NT are the witness of metaphysical and theological truth. God has gone to extraordinary lengths to provide evidence on which to place our faith. Do you believe Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon? We have much greater evidence Jesus rose from the dead than that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. Christians can be certain about salvation because God has provided irrefutable evidence. God cannot lie. The reason people chaff at Christian certainty regarding salvation is because they don’t want to believe it. They refuse to trust God. People have no problem accepting the fact Caesar crossed the Rubicon because it doesn’t affect their lives. It’s a fact but really, who cares? The root of intellectual dishonsty is refusal to believe the Bible. You’re right. Everyone has the same data. That is why God will be just in judging men and women. The basis of God’s condemnation will be that everyone has had essentially the same data but some have chosen to trust Him while others have refused. They have refused not because of lack of evidence but because they do not want God; they wished to remain in rebellion against Him. God will let them.

        Reply ↓
        1. Roger Spielmann February 22, 2016 at 12:55 pm

           Hmmm…perhaps we’re talking past each other. The evidence is strong that God raised Jesus from the dead, but it doesn’t constitute *proof* in the epistemological sense. If we *knew*, then there would be no room for faith, wouldn’t you agree?

           You wrote, “Christians can be certain about salvation because God has provided irrefutable evidence.” Yes, the *evidence* is strong, but evidence does not constitute *proof*. We can be *confident* that we are saved, but we cannot *know* in any kind of epistemological sense (Hebrews 1:1).

           You also wrote, “The reason people chaff at Christian certainty regarding salvation is because they don’t want to believe it.” In my experience, they chaff because so many Christians *claim* certainty and present themselves as somehow *privileged* over those poor losers who don’t believe. Anyone who claims absolute certainty (about anything) ought to be able to *prove* (to anyone) that that something is *true*. As Jesus said in John 20:29, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

           Finally, you wrote, “The root of intellectual dishonesty is refusal to believe the Bible.” That makes no sense. It sounds as if you’re implying that one cannot be intellectually honest (about anything?) unless one subscribes to a literal interpretation of the Bible. Can you unpack that statement for me?

           Thank you.

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 22, 2016 at 5:09 pm

              Roger,
              You may be right about talking past. Do historical records constitute proof or evidence Washington served as President of the U.S.? I hate to think of true Christians thinking they are “privileged over poor losers who don’t believe.” True Christians know they have done nothing to deserve salvation and that “there by the grace of God go I.” As for the last, concerning intellectual dishonesty, read Romans 1. Paul’s case is men know God but actively oppose Him and suppress truth (see especially Romans 1.18 where Paul used the word κατέχω which means active suppression of truth). That’s intellectual dishonesty. One can be intellectually honest about some things. The human mind can compartmentalize certain objective areas and pursue truth. But I am speaking about spiritual matters.

              Reply ↓
     2. Vanessa February 22, 2016 at 9:08 am

        Roger I am so sorry that I come over as trying to turn people away from the truth. I hurt when I think that I may have been the cause of a person stumbling. I shall leave the debate by saying this. It is and never will be my intension to hurt anyone. You misconstrued what I wrote and its so sad. Take care.

        Reply ↓
        1. Roger Spielmann February 22, 2016 at 10:54 am

           It’s me who should apologize, Vanessa. It do get excited about God and how he relates to human beings. Your post made me think and I sometimes write *as* I’m thinking rather than *before* thinking. Please don’t feel bad about anything you contribute. It’s all good!

           Reply ↓
109. Jfollower February 22, 2016 at 12:27 am

     I follow Jesus, Paul is a conflicted, conflicting deceiver.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 22, 2016 at 7:47 am

        Jfollower,
        Such a statement reveals you do not know Christ. It is impossible to know Him apart from Paul’s gospel of grace (1 Corinthians 15.1-5). If you wish to follow Christ, the starting point is to believe the gospel.

        Reply ↓
        1. Roger Spielmann February 22, 2016 at 1:17 pm

           Your above comment to JFollower seems a bit heavy-handed, don’t you think? We don’t know JFollower’s heart or where he is on his spiritual journey. You sound judgmental and quite arrogant, which surprised me. You may be right in your belief about following Paul’s gospel, but the way you responded to JFollower sounds mean-spirited to me. You’re usually so good at building people up (unless they’re being deliberately provocative). Would you consider responding again to JFollower in a way that builds him up? Or am I missing something?

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 22, 2016 at 3:29 pm

              Roger,
              JFollower wrote Paul was a deceiver. The Scriptures reveal otherwise. He was personally chosen by the risen Lord. After the Jerusalem Council only Paul’s gospel was a valid message of salvation. Paul did not make this decree, Peter did (Acts 15.11). My purpose was to challenge JFollower’s thinking and claim to follow Jesus. Can one follow Jesus and reject the one He chose to deliver the message of salvation? My intent was not to be mean-spirited but to show JFollower the illogic of his statement.

              Reply ↓
              1. Roger Spielmann February 22, 2016 at 9:32 pm

                 Thank you for this response. I did think you were being quite harsh on JFollower, but this response confirms that that was not your intent. It wasn’t about *what* you said to him but *how* you said it. Now I “get it.”

                 Reply ↓
110. Roger Spielmann February 23, 2016 at 2:22 pm

     According to Paul in 1 Cor. 13, faith is not the greatest virtue. Love is the greatest of all human attributes, and John plainly states, “God is love” (1 John 4:8). The consensus of commentators of 1 Cor. 13:13 is that love is merely a natural expression of faith in Christ. I’d love to hear your take on this verse, which says that, of the three virtues listed, the greatest is not faith, but love. Thank you.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorFebruary 23, 2016 at 2:42 pm

        Roger,
        Reading Paul, the virtues of faith, hope, and love occur throughout his letters. Sometimes they are in combinations of twos but they keep recurring. Love is the greatest virtue in terms of practical life and fulfilling of the moral law (Romans 13.10). Faith is the beginning point of a relationship with God and without it one cannot please God (Hebrews 11.6). Hope is the expectation of God’s promises to the believer. The context of Paul’s statement that love is greatest is in reference to good works and spiritual gifts, i.e., tongues, healing, gift of knowledge, gift of prophecy, etc.

        Reply ↓
        1. becky February 23, 2016 at 8:33 pm

           Great question and answer, thank you both.

           Reply ↓
           1. becky February 23, 2016 at 8:36 pm

              I would like to like to add one more comment. God is love and so makes sense with regard to being the greatest.

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        2. Faith February 24, 2016 at 5:49 pm

           I would also state that love encompasses all time and space and is complete where as faith and hope are parts of the human experience. We will have no need of faith or hope when we are reunited with Christ, but love will be everlasting.

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111. Roger Spielmann March 24, 2016 at 9:23 am

     I’m not sure if this is the proper forum for this post, but… My question has to do with this article I read recently. It can be found at http://30ce.com/mithras.htm.

     I’ve heard these comparisons being made between Paul’s teaching and the Roman Mystery Religions before, but not in detail. Here are some of the comparisons the author makes between Mithras and Jesus.

     1. Mithras was born of a virgin who was given the title of “Mother of God”
     2. Mithras was born on December 25. Before Constantine (a follower of Mithras) changed the date, the birth date Jesus’ followers observed was January 6. However, Jesus’ birth, based on the descriptions, would actually have been in the spring.
     3. Mithras was born in a cave (stable), and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
     4. Mithras was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
     5. Mithras had 12 companions or disciples.
     6. Mithras performed miracles.
     7. Mithras’ followers were baptized.
     8. Mithras suffered to bring salvation to a sin-cursed humankind.
     9. Mithras was buried in a tomb and rose after three days.
     10. Mithras’ resurrection was celebrated every year.
     11. Mithras ascended into heaven after finishing his deeds.
     12. Mithras’ followers were promised immortality.
     13. Mithras was called “the good shepherd” and identified with both the lamb and the lion.
     14. Mithras was called the “way, the truth and the light,” ” logos,” “word,” “redeemer,” “savior” and “messiah.”
     15. On the Judgment Day, Mithras would use the keys of heaven to unlock the gates of Paradise to receive the faithful.
     16. Mithras had his principal festival on the day that was later to become Easter for Christians.
     17. Mithras’ religion had a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithras said, “He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
     18. On a final day of judgment, the dead would resurrect and in a final conflict, the existing order would be destroyed and light would triumph over darkness.

     What I’m really interested in knowing is what *your* take is on these kinds of comparisons. Thank you.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorMarch 24, 2016 at 12:39 pm

        Roger,
        Articles on this site are anti-Christian and virulently anti-Paul. The host appears to be a spiritist. Having said this, the problem with the information posted on Mithraism is the lack of documentation. What is written is also at odds with articles about it in Wikipedia. Skeptics have long used the mystery religions as an argument that Christianity was just another example of a mystery religion. The “dying god revived” has had considerable debate since Fraszer’s Bough and scholars are not agreed upon the beginnings of Mithraism. To me, it seems to contain elements of paganism that go back to pagan gods. The gods of Baal, Tammuz, Molech, etc. are all the same depending on the culture and society and Mithras was just another manifestation.

        Reply ↓
112. Jerry Shaw April 1, 2016 at 4:10 pm

     Apologies for an obtuse question..
     you have stated “hundreds of passages deal with the establishment of the earthly kingdom and Israel’s preeminence.”
     I have found several. I try to emphasize prophesy as much as possible in my classes.
     I would never ask you to list so many or even some. But if you can direct me to a source I would appreciate it. I can only guess how many thousands of hours you have spent on your studies. May God continue to use you for the benefit of the “Body”.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 1, 2016 at 6:10 pm

        Jerry,
        I once tried compiling a list but it exhausted me and gave up. All the passages that speak of the covenants, land, rule, etc. deal with the earthly kingdom. The whole OT deals with two principle subjects: God’s wrath upon the earth and the Messianic kingdom. That’s Jewish theology. Want a project?

        Reply ↓
113. Jerry Shaw April 7, 2016 at 3:13 pm

     KINGDOM PROPHECIES

     Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
     Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
     Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
     Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
     Gen 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
     Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
     Gen 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
     Gen 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
     Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

     Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
     Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

     Deu 33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.

     1Sa 13:13 …… for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever

     2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

     1Ch 28:7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
     1Ch 29:10 Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.

     Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
     Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
     Psa 130:8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
     Ps 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens and his kingdom rules over all.
     Psa 106:47 Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise.
     Psa 145:13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

     Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
     Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
     Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
     Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
     Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
     Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
     Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
     Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
     Jer 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

     Eze 28:26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.

     Dan 4:3 How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
     Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

     Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
     Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
     Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
     Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
     Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
     Zec 8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.
     Zec 8:20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
     Zec 8:21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
     Zec 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
     Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
     Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness
     Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. .

     What kind of future does God have in store for planet earth? Through His prophets God reveals many specific details of how this world will be transformed in the Kingdom of God. Notice a few prophecies about the marvelous world God has planned for us:
     A world of unparalleled peace

     They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid …” (Micah 4:3-4
     “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:9).
     Wild animals’ nature transformed
     “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them …” (Isaiah 11:6).
     A world of agricultural abundance
     “ ‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘when the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; the mountains shall drip with sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it … They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; they shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them’ ” (Amos 9:13-14).
     “… I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase” (Ezekiel 34:26-27).
     Wastelands transformed
     “… Waters shall burst forth in the wilderness, and streams in the desert. The parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water …” (Isaiah 35:6-7).
     Sickness and disease healed
     “Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb sing” (Isaiah 35:5-6).
     Mankind given a new heart and spirit
     “Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them … that they may walk in my statutes and keep my judgments and do them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God” (Ezekiel 11:19-20).
     Nations will learn God’s ways
     “Many nations shall come and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of theLORD … He will teach us His ways, and we will walk in His paths. For out of Zion the law shall go forth …’” (Micah 4:2).
     Jesus Christ will rule the world
     “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder … Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end …” (Isaiah 9:6-7).

     How dat?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 10, 2016 at 5:01 pm

        Jerry,
        Great work! But I think there’s more!

        Reply ↓
     2. Grace Receiver April 20, 2016 at 11:28 pm

        Thanks for this, Jerry!

        Reply ↓
114. David James McAleese Watson April 19, 2016 at 10:52 am

     Luke 10:18: Jesus states He watched Satan fall like lightning out of the sky,
     Acts 9:3-5: Paul’s sees light from heaven flash around him and falls to the ground then “hear’s” a voice in the wild outside Damascus,
     The voice said I am the one whom you percercute, Jesus,
     But rise up and enter into the city and it will be told what you must to.
     Matthew 22-26: Jesus warned if anyone’s “says” to you behold here is the Christ, do not believe it,
     For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to lead you astray, if possible, even the chosen.
     I have told you before.
     Before if they say to you he is in the wilderness, behold, he is in the rooms, do not believe it.

     I would like to point out that also further on in acts 9 8-18
     That pauls meeting with the light caused him to be blinded but when he was told to pray Things like Scales fell from his eyes,
     From the gospels of the 12 apostle Jesus the Messiah of God does not sound like the type of person to inflict this onto someone.

     Paul also changes words in from the Scriptures which is forbidden,
     Psalms 68 18: when you ascended on high, you took many captives, you received many gifts from men, even from the rebellious so that God may dwell there.
     Ephesians 4 8: the scripture says having ascended soon high he led captive those taken captive and Gave gives “To” men.

     1 Corinthians 6 12: Paul says all things are lawful and that he will not be brought under the power of anything.
     Does he not fear God?

     1 Corinthians 4 15: Paul states through Jesus he Became your father,

     Jesus also said call no one on earth your father for the only father is the one true God My Lord.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 19, 2016 at 12:06 pm

        David,
        I’ve answered these objections many times. Apart from Paul’s gospel no salvation exists (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Apart from Paul, the Church, the body of Christ, does not exist. Apart from Paul, Christianity does not exist. Paul declared Jesus Christ would judge the world according to his gospel (Romans 2.16). The risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ commissioned and appointed Paul as the apostle of grace and the apostle to the Gentiles (Acts 9, 22, 26,20.24; Romans 11.13). One cannot obey Christ apart from Paul’s teachings. Paul is to Christians what Abraham and Moses were to the Jews. If one has a problem with Paul, one has a problem with the Lord Himself.

        Reply ↓
115. David James McAleese Watson April 19, 2016 at 10:34 pm

     You cannot reach The Lord of Jesus Christ without Christ and Jesus is the Christ.

     If you are teaching that you cannot reach The Lord with Paul you are teaching a lie.

     Because this is not what Jesus thought but of what he warned.

     What Jesus said was not of his words But the Lords

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 20, 2016 at 6:59 pm

        David,
        What you are failing to understand is that what Paul taught he received from the risen Christ. You cannot follow Christ, indeed, you cannot be a Christian, apart from following Paul’s teachings. His teachings came directly from the Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). Every time you criticize Paul’s doctrines you criticize the Lord.

        Reply ↓
        1. Chi3 May 22, 2016 at 10:46 pm

           Paul claimed his teachings came from the risen Christ. I’ve often wondered why other religions such as Islam and Mormanism, etc. where allowed to prosper. They have prophets that claim to have spoken to God and been given the true Word. I think it was allowed to make us think and question all such claims.

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorMay 23, 2016 at 7:51 am

              Chi3,
              All false religion can be traced to Babel. Religion is a strategic method of Satan to deceive mankind. God permits this to give man a choice. It is in mankind’s power to choose God or Satan. You are correct: false religions have their prophets. This is revealed throughout the Old Testament: Egypt’s magicians confronted Moses, Baal’s prophets confronted Elijah, etc.

              Reply ↓
116. David James McAleese Watson April 21, 2016 at 1:54 am

     You are not getting the point I am making I think,
     How do you know that Paul worships the Christ when everything he does and says is nearly Opposite to Christs persona and teachings,
     You also keep forgetting that Paul Did Not physically see Jesus he saw a Light, and he “heared” Jesus.
     You are Christian for Believing into Christ,
     John and Jesus both Mention this,
     If you believe into Paul you believe into Paul, and the Pauline Version of Cristianity,
     Which is completely opposite of what Jesus taught,
     Much error and confusion has surrounded Pauls teachings for centuries,
     And The One God is not the Author of Confussion.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 21, 2016 at 7:39 am

        David,
        Read 2 Corinthians 4.1-6. You are blinded by Satan. God is light and Paul proclaimed the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you know Him you will not criticize Paul or his doctrines for they magnify and exalt Him.

        Reply ↓
     2. Vanessa May 23, 2016 at 10:41 am

        Hello David, There were those who followed Moses and there were those who did not. Korah and his friends were against Moses. The earth opened up and swallowed them live. They went directly to hell. I see a pattern here with many people who are anti-Paul. I am not saying that this will happen but I do believe judgement is coming on those who disobey the word of God by ignoring the teachings of Paul.

        Reply ↓
117. Alex Flores April 27, 2016 at 6:44 pm

     All of you are failing to do what we are commanded to do in testing the Spirits, as the Bereans did. We need only to go to the Old Testament to find out who would be eligible to pick up the mantle of Christ (ie: to identify the real church). If we look at the story of Elijah (a shadow of the Christ) and Elisha (a shadow of the church), we see that there was a condition set. Elisha would rightfully carry the mantle and the ministry IF he was present when Elijah was taken up. If we refer back to the Gospels, When replacing Judas’ position in the twelve, it was a requirement that the one who would be elected had to be present “from the baptism of John to his, Jesus, being taken up (Acts 1: 21-22)”. I’m afraid that this leaves Paul out.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorApril 27, 2016 at 7:02 pm

        Alex,
        The Bereans did not test the spirits. The Bereans “received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” On what basis do you conclude Elijah was a shadow of the Christ and Elisha a shadow of the Church? The Church was unknown in the Old Testament. Not a word is in the Old Testament about the Church, the body of Christ. Paul stated it was a secret (Ephesians 3.3-6). Paul was not eligible to be an apostle of Israel as you state. And he was not. The risen Lord commissioned him to be the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9.15; Romans 11.13). The Twelve only ministered to Jews, to Israel. They never had a ministry to Gentiles. They knew nothing of the Church, the body of Christ. See my articles, The Church (the Body of Christ) and Paul’s “Mystery”.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ilya Petrenko May 23, 2018 at 10:09 am

           So the body of Christ is made up of gentiles, The church. Israel is then the bride of the church. Then the two shall become one in union and perhaps produce the offspring of the millennial rule?

           Reply ↓
           1. doctrine Post authorMay 23, 2018 at 10:56 am

              Ilya,
              Israel and the Church are separate entities and will remain such for eternity. The Church will have no offspring. It is complete when Christ returns for it. The offspring in the Millennium will come from believers who have survived the Tribulation.

              Reply ↓
118. Carl Ballinger May 7, 2016 at 3:55 pm

     Do you have a theory on why much of Christendom has forced the Gospels on Paul and why Paul is forced into the Gospels? Why is it not “good enough” that God offered the Jews the occasion to repent (they rejected it) and then presented a new covenant for the Gentiles (and then the Jews) through Paul?

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorMay 7, 2016 at 4:39 pm

        Carl,
        Such confusion began in Paul’s lifetime (2 Timothy 1.13-15). The creeds are historical witnesses of just how far the apple had fallen from tree. Some of them took hundreds of years to formulate and they are a far cry from the sound doctrine Paul had given. God’s plan since Abraham was that he would bless Gentiles through Jews. The Jews rejected their Messiah and this was the only avenue of blessing. The next thing on the prophetic timeline was the Tribulation, which Peter expected soon. God had no revealed program to bless Gentiles apart from Israel. But God in His mercy stopped the prophetic clock and saved Paul to be the source of blessing to Gentiles in spite of Israel’s failure. Hence, Christianity. Satan has confused the minds of theologians and this is why everything is mixed up–Paul read into the gospels and the gospels into Paul. Keep Israel and the Church separate, understand Paul’s unique apostleship and all falls into place.

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        1. Carl Ballinger May 7, 2016 at 4:47 pm

           Do you think we’re stuck with some of the residuals of the Roman co-opting of Christianity, needed the Gospels to establish apostolic succession and the need for works?

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           1. doctrine Post authorMay 7, 2016 at 7:19 pm

              Carl,
              Apostolic succession is not a Biblical doctrine but it is built upon succession from the Twelve. Paul’s gave his command to Timothy on the matter of “succession” doctrine in 2 Timothy 2.2. The Twelve were apostles of Israel, so the notion of succession from them is unsound and unbiblical.

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              1. Carl Ballinger May 7, 2016 at 7:50 pm

                 I agree, but did the forcing of that by the Catholic Church lead to some of the confusion?

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                 1. doctrine Post authorMay 7, 2016 at 8:15 pm

                    Carl,
                    Yes. And the poison spread throughout Christendom.

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                    1. Carl Ballinger May 7, 2016 at 9:04 pm

                       Yes. Thank you.

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           2. Grace Receiver May 7, 2016 at 7:35 pm

              Yes, Carl, we are most definitely stuck with residuals! When they were cutting the apron strings at the Reformation, they stopped cutting a little too soon. :-)

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              1. Carl Ballinger May 7, 2016 at 9:03 pm

                 Exactly. The Reformation was not as thorough a cleaning of distortion as necessary.

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119. MICHAEL LAYTON May 19, 2016 at 3:37 am

     I have heard lots of stories of people visiting hell and it is implied there down there for certain sins instead of not believing jesus died for are sins. do you have a comment on this.

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     1. doctrine Post authorMay 19, 2016 at 7:47 am

        Michael,
        The Scriptures state Christ died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Those who go to hell are there because they have rejected God’s salvation.

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120. Budiharto Setyo June 4, 2016 at 1:58 am

     I had this thought for about 3 years now. Now i just leave Pauls words as like if a pastor speaks and not as authoritative as what Jesus said. It gets so confusing at times that i just choose the safest path possible (the narrow path) i choose to follow Jesus, Paul came after Jesus left and spread something new and different, yes they sound more pleasant ang more forgiving and generally easier for us believers but….

     considering the parable of the sower and tares (the tares are a belief that happens right after Son of Man left, and this tares will survive till the end of days, and it mingles with the true children of God is there any that fits this description better than Pauls followers?)

     considering the parable of the wise bride that carry oil (i consider this a message for us followers of Christ that we ought to be extra carefull with our chouces and what we believe)

     And so this leads me to choose what path im walking on, i am alone at the moment since all churces in my country seems to believe otherwise. I believe that when i follow what Jesus thought and believe that He is my saviour then i am considered His sheep and will inherit eternal life. So after all carefull thought and consideration i choose to omitt pauls teachings from my life and follow only Jesus.

     My final defence: if the Paulinist were right then im still going to heaven, but if the Paulinist were wrong then im still going thru the narrow path and goes to heaven (i sincerely hope that i am wrong so that millions are avoided the fate of eternal fire but God does mention that only few will find the narrow path).

     I am not an expert in theology or anything and im sorry if what i write is not on par with the level of understanding in here.

     God bless you always and i hope Jesus returns soon.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 4, 2016 at 7:57 am

        Budiharto,
        The problem with your reasoning is that in His earthly ministry Jesus spoke to Jews under the Law, not to Gentiles. I doubt you are Jewish and under the Mosaic Law. So it is not possible for you to follow Jesus as He proclaimed in His earthly ministry. However, you can still follow Him for He spoke to Paul in His heavenly ministry. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles. The Church is mostly Gentile and not under the Mosaic Law. If one wishes to follow Christ he must follow Paul’s teachings. Paul’s teachings came from the risen, glorified Lord. No salvation exists outside of Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Grace and peace.

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121. Budiharto Setyo June 6, 2016 at 12:51 am

     Hello doctrine :)

     thanks for the reply, i know that at the time Jesus spoke to the jews but what he speaks about has meny elements in it including those that i believe applies to all mankind. he said so Himself that he commands us to go and make everybody Jesus disciple and nobody elses.

     At that time that the command to make everyone His disciples and to baptize was given there is no bible yet and so i believe Jesus already formulates His doctrine then and not when Paul was involved.

     I know that nobody knows for sure but for me the safest path is still to follow only Jesus for He is the God Son and must be free from any error while Paul is just another human being which we listen to because his claims and his disciple claims (luke) make him what we perceive him today the only outside reference to Paul is 2 peter which is very debated in its authorship and also even if true labels Pauls teachings as very dangerous and easily missinterpreted.

     So again i say to follow Jesus more than Paul simply because Jesus also said that there is no other teacher but Him (Matt 23:8).

     Only God knows the truth in these matters and so with my limitations i will not say these as facts but opinions on how i try to secure my salvation by threading as carefully as i can for this treasure (eternal life) is beyond all that is in life and deserve that extra effort and care.

     now there are so many denominations in the world today and ever one of them exist because they believe that they are the one that got it right. I am just 1 sheep that is trying to please God with my life i hope he smiles when he see me try to make Him happy.

     Im glad that this article bring people together and makes them read more of Gods words, i pray that God will show people the truth including myself and that if i erred i hope God will personally touch my being and make me return to the right way of thinking and so please him with my actions and submission.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 6, 2016 at 8:10 am

        Budiharto,
        We must read the Scriptures in context. Jesus told the 12 to go baptize and make disciples. We are not the 12 and not Jews. Jesus came to fulfill the promises to the fathers (Romans 15.8). He came to the Jews to offer His kingdom on earth. The Church does not have earthly promises. It has heavenly promises. One follows Jesus by following Paul. Paul received the risen Lord’s instructions and founded the Church, the body of Christ. He is the father of Christianity. Salvation (justification) begins with Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) and continues with sanctification (Romans 6-8) and completes with glorification (the Rapture, 1 Corinthians 15.51, 1 Thessalonians 4.13-17, etc.). In other words, everything about beginning, continuing, and ending the Christian life comes from Paul. If you wish to follow Jesus, follow Paul. How in the world does one follow Jesus according to Matthew 8.4? Grace and peace.

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122. Budiharto Setyo June 6, 2016 at 11:04 pm

     Hi again doctrine :)

     Thank you for trying to explain to me on your views on truth, as i said that we no longer need to present any sacrifice since Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice for us and that the temple no longer exists (so even the Jews cannot do mat 8.4 too, they too have to use the new temple and the new sacrifice like the rest of us.

     I have differing opinion to you about the 12 being only for Jews, Jesus said to teach “All nations” and even tho as i said i do not regard luke as very authoritative since he is Pauls disciple but he said in acts that Peter was specifically moved by God to minister to non Jews (Cornelius in chapter 10) even before Paul starts his ministries (this verse begins right after Paul conversion in chapter 9). And if you see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit on the jews you might be inclined to believe that speaking in tongues that were actually different languages of many nations is to me like a prophecy that they are sent to many nations just as Jesus commands before Jesus ascends to heaven.

     All that supports the doctrine of Paul is within Paul and his disciples own written words and so its like proving yourself with your own written testimony as witness. The only source that quotes Paul is in 2 Peter that is highly debated in its authorship and even if true said that Paul teaching is very dangerous and is easily missinterpreted.

     There are a whole lot of reasons that make me wary of Paul, because of him and his disciple we now have so many conflicting things inside the bible, you can see 2 different Jesus now (one with short hair and the other with long hair because Paul said that long hair is bad for males contrary to God “1Cor 11:14”, now people have doctrines about purgatory and stuff because of Lukes story on Lazarus and the rich, Even the jews of old are told that if they circumsize then Jesus no longer has any use to you Gal5:2 , Paul even emphasize that he himself said that “might mean that he is introducing something from himself not from God, he does this on other places too regarding widows remarying”

     Afterwards he deny that he is teaching Jews to abolish the law and circumcision in front of a holy vow to God while the evidence of his actions are recorded in his own actions in gal 5:2 so Paul was vowing that he did not do something for something that he actualy did in a holy vow with 4 witness Acts 21:21-26. After all this things and many other things that i cannot list here because its to many i just cannot believe in Paul except if God touch me personally and lead me to think otherwise.

     As many in previous comments said i also feel that Paul is quite full of self pride, and that many of the mystical things that happens to him just feels wrong like “why would God send a messenger of Satan to paul shouldnt be Satan is the sender of Satan’s messenger? in 2Cor12:7 Paul felt that he is in a position of exaltation that God sent a messenger of “Satan” to him.

     I can read from your responses that you are valuing Paul(risen Lord, which i do not believe) more than Jesus (on earth) teachings. Contrary to your believe i believe that the teachings of Jesus on his earthly ministry was meant to inspire those he sends to all nations and is still relevant today to all, and that since Paul was never prophesied (Jesus never said about any figure of importance that will come after him that is going to support His kingdom, on the contrary there are only prophecies on the enemy that will send someone to disrupt and mingle with Jesus teachings, i can point to a few of those while Jesus was prophesied to be the Scepter of Kingship on Gen49:10 so was someone in benjamin that is prophesied to be a ravenous wolf on the same chapter on verse 27 “in the morning he shall devour the prey “Paul was a prosecutor first” at night he shall divide the spoil ” he claims himself an apostle to the gentiles thus dividing the jews and gentiles to have different teachings”.

     I do not want to be different i really dont like being alone scrutinized because of this, even my pastor said i had an evil spirit because i told him all these things (i then ask him to drive out the evil spirit but nothing happens, i am routinely praying to set free others from evil spirits from my work colleagues (a daughter possessed by the Keraton spirit from Javanese king, now healed and can work in city of Magelang. I also prayed with a team of 4 to a haunted house that topples christmas trees and pull maids hairs and drag them , the house is now cleansed and my friend is staying there) i constantly go out to prayer calls where a pastor is preaching how the torah was abolished hoping that God will make me fall down as the pastor prayed for me and touch my head so taht i was given a sign but been 3 years and more than 20 pastors but nothing happens. i also say to God to spare me this way of thinking and for Him to either give me a sign that i am wrong or to support me if i am right (by making the pastor that touch me to fall down instead) but all these 3 years nothing happens yet.

     So all i can do is wait and preach to others about salvation thru Jesus and teaching people how to lead a life that is pleasing God (Omitting my own doctrine) these people are till to young to expose to this kind of stuff and unlike you have already build your faith thru a lot of scriptures and personal experiences and so i share this with you and pastors mostly. Most of the pastors just say that the bible cannot be wrong and that if Paul is in it it is protected by the bible truthfullness so Paul is protected by his own defenses which is written in the bible.

     Sorry again i might cause you sadness on how a believer such as myself can go so far away from the truth, i too wish to be free so i will close my comments here (im sure you can figure out what kind of person now i currently am and what way of thinking i have). I hope i am straightened out soon by God.

     Thx doctrine and God bless you.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 7, 2016 at 7:59 am

        Budiharto,
        What I am trying to communicate is that beginning with Abraham God revealed Himself only through the Jews and that Gentiles could only be blessed through Israel. That was the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12.1-3). The theology of the OT consisted of two major concepts: the kingdom of God on earth and God’s judgment of the earth (the Day of the Lord). Jesus commanded His disciples to go to Gentiles. They never did. Peter went to Cornelius’ house but we have no record of the 12 having a ministry to Gentiles. Were they disobedient? No. They were obedient to the Abrahamic covenant. They understood God’s plan. Jews had to repent for the kingdom of God to come and then as a holy people could they bless Gentiles. But Israel refused to repent and the kingdom of God could not come. Peter expected the Day of the Lord to come soon (read Acts 2). But God delayed His judgment, saved Saul of Tarsus, who became Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles. Through Paul God revealed a plan to bless Gentiles He had kept hidden. This was a plan of grace. God gave the Mosaic Law to the Jews. He did not give it to Gentiles. The Church is not subject to the Mosaic Law. It is subject to grace and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is how we keep the moral law. It is through Paul that we learn of salvation by the death and resurrection of Christ, of salvation by faith alone, of our identification with Christ, of the Church, they body of Christ, etc. These things were unknown before because God kept them hidden. Grace and peace.

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     2. VascoDaGama June 11, 2016 at 1:12 am

        Sounds like you figured it out my friend. Paul is a deceiver and Yeshua warned his disciples against him. His doctrine is indeed very different than that of Yeshua, and he even states that. He calls it “my gospel”. The most important thing is Truth and we must seek it out at all costs because it will set us free. Even if it means to let go of things formerly believed as truth.

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        1. doctrine Post authorJune 11, 2016 at 7:03 am

           VascoDaGama,
           Paul wrote by revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1.11-12). To write Paul was a deceiver is to write Christ was a deceiver. Paul called the gospel he proclaimed “my gospel” because it was not the gospel of the 12. He received it from the risen Lord.

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123. Budiharto Setyo June 7, 2016 at 10:51 pm

     Dear doctrine :)

     thank you for pointing out Israel failure on their part to repent and for the kingdom of God and become the holy people, i have never pondered along this branch of thought. I thought that Jesus trip to earth was a total success and that its going according to Gods plan and that thru the 12 was the gentiles supposed to be taught and baptized because Jesus said the to all nations thing and because of the cornelius thing. i forgot 1 more verse in acts 15 verse 7 that Peter said by his mouth the gentiles shall hear the gospel (this is also why i disagree with Paul since i put the original 12 higher to that of Paul because they were taught directly and since Peter was chosen then i thought that Paul must be wrong in claiming that he is the apostle of the gentiles). Regarding the 12 works many are not recorded because i thougt they do not want to record anything else but Jesus teaching but there is a verse that indicates that their preaching has travelled great distances too like this one 1cor 1: 10-13 where Paul said that there are followers of Cephas and that generally there is an assumed break in doctrine between the apostles that Paul is trying to rectify.

     I will study some more on this i hope this will free me from my erronous way of thinking. There is still the other matter on Pauls transgression on the vow in Acts 21, i still cannot answer that one to those that asks? i was defending the bible zealously before but with critical thinking until i cannot answer some of the questions like this one. I could answer them but i felt wrong since i kinda have to stretch out the facts and also have to make them think that some is cryptic and have symbolic meaning instead of letting the bible speaks for itself an provide with the most probable and reasonable answer.

     God bless.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 8, 2016 at 3:39 pm

        Budiharto,
        Peter said these words but his visit to Cornelius’ house seems to have been a one-time event. We have no record of his having any further ministry of evangelism to Gentiles. The ascended Lord taught Paul personally. This began at his conversion and continued after Paul went to Arabia (probably Mt. Sinai where Moses had met with God to receive the Law, Galatians 1.17-18). So it’s a mistake to say Paul was not taught personally by the Lord. Remember too, all Scripture is God-breathed. Paul’s words are just as authoritative as Jesus’ because ultimately God superintendent end themwho had them to be in the Scriptures. Read Galatians 2. Paul was greater than the 12. He worked harder and suffered more for the Lord than all the 12 combined. Paul is to Gentiles, to the Church, what Abraham and Moses were to the Jews. Paul was not perfect but he is THE great man of the Bible (apart from the Lord, of course, for He is God). No one can compare to Paul in living a more holy, dedicated life to Christ after salvation. Grace and peace.

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124. Budiharto Setyo June 8, 2016 at 10:30 pm

     Thanks doctrine :)

     Even tho i do not yet share your belief in Paul yet, i do appreciate the time and patience that you have displayed on answering my inquiries. God bless you and your family and let God always be with you in everything you do and make you successful in all your actions.

     Thanks again

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     1. doctrine Post authorJune 9, 2016 at 8:05 am

        Budiharto,
        Thank you. May the Lord guide and bless you.

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125. Israel July 4, 2016 at 2:50 pm

     I believe Paul was called by Yahshua The Messiah to preach the gospel but much of his teachings are controversial. He said women must not talk in the congregations, but I think they talked even in the presence of Yahshua The Messiah. Singles should not marry I can’t remember Yahsuah or any of the 12 giving such order. Also, he sometimes contradicted himself. He preached against circumcision but then he circumcised. (Act 16v1-3 Timothy). Above that he contradicted Yahshua and the apostles when by suggesting we can eat food sacrificed to idols.(1Cor 8 1-7; Acts 15 :29; Rev 2:14)

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     1. doctrine Post authorJuly 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm

        Israel,
        The apparent and presumed contractions result from trying to reconcile Jesus the Messiah’s earthly ministry with that of His heavenly ministry. In the former, He ministered to Jews under the Law. In the latter, He revealed doctrines unknown to the prophets and unrevealed in His prophetic plan to the Apostle Paul. Paul called these revelations “secrets” (μυστήριον). See Deuteronomy 29.29. God began an entirely new program with Paul. He was for Gentiles what Abraham and Moses were for Jews. See my articles, Paul: Chief of Sinners?, Paul’s “Mystery”, The Church (The Body of Christ), Theology of the Old Testament, etc. At the present time, God is completing the Church, in which there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. The Church was unknown in the OT and in the Gospels. Grace and peace.

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126. Grace July 5, 2016 at 1:06 pm

     I only wish there was an established church without Paul. More Christians are waking up to the fact that there is no name above Christ and that Paul had zero authority to rewrite Christ’s teaching and change God’s Word and God’s Law. It is incredible that unless you uphold Paul you’re not even regarded as being a genuine Christian. Paul is effectively worshipped and placed above God, which is as wrong as it can be. Christ warned us about the future church being the wide road leading the closed gates of Heaven led by a false gospel. It is astonishing that Paulist Christians say he is the “greatest ever Christian” and he wrote “three quarters” of the NT. We must lead people to Christ and expose the obvious falsehood of Paul.

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     1. doctrine Post authorJuly 5, 2016 at 8:39 pm

        Grace,
        To reject Paul is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord chose Paul as the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9, 22, 26; Romans 11.13). Anyone who rejects Paul is without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. It is through Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) that one is saved and God will judge men by Christ according to his gospel (Romans 2.16).

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     2. bmariez July 5, 2016 at 9:23 pm

        Hi Grace, the best thing to do regarding Paul is not go by what anyone is saying. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you through Paul’s writings so that you can see for yourself what it is that you need to understand about Paul. I agree that some people do idolize Paul. Personally, many years ago, I was weighed down with how many preachers are idolized; and when they preach error, people overlook it. I tearfully prayed one day, saying, “Lord, how can preachers seem to preach truth, then turn around and come out with deceptive doctrine. Who can I trust?” I immediately heard so clearly, i turned around because it was almost audible, “Paul.” Before that, I was intimidated by Paul’s writings. I started studying his writings and was amazed at how the Lord opened my ears so that I could understand his writings. I didn’t listen to preachers, didn’t look for anyone to help me understand Paul. It was a work of the Spirit. I spent months, day after day, studying his writings. It was an amazing time. The Lord sent Paul to us and has preserved his writings because they are inspired fully by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, even Christ Himself, our Lord and Savior.

        Grace, be fully persuaded in your own mind. Paul even rebuked people for saying “I am of Paul, I am of Cephas” even “I am of Christ.” He was talking about people who were prideful and being divisive.

        Don’t worry about what people are saying: there are too many of them. Again, be fully persuaded in your own mind.

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        1. doctrine Post authorJuly 6, 2016 at 7:34 am

           Bmariez,
           The Holy Spirit will lead one to Paul. All other spirits will lead one away from Paul (Acts 19.13-15). Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11.13) and his gospel is salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

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     3. Matthew Curry July 6, 2016 at 9:24 am

        Hi Grace,
        The scriptures in Acts say that Paul preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God. Acts 28;31; …30 Paul stayed there two full years in his own rented house, welcoming all who came to visit him. 31 Boldly and freely he proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.
        He preached the Kingdom of God, the same message that Christ preached, and he taught about Jesus Christ.

        Acts 20:25
        Now I know that none of you among whom I have preached the kingdom will see my face again.

        Acts 28:23
        So they set a day to meet with Paul, and many people came to the place he was staying. He expounded to them from morning to evening, testifying about the kingdom of God and persuading them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and the Prophets.
        Acts 19:8- Then Paul went into the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But when some of them stubbornly refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way, Paul took his disciples and left the synagogue to conduct daily discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.

        Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached, and commanded his disciples to preach. The message did not change, the demographic changed, from jew to gentile. The churches that Paul planted were mixed with both Jew and Gentile people.
        Where the mistakes are made is when we read the epistles of Paul. Paul’s epistles are written to address problems in the congregations he’s already planted, that he’d already preached the gospel of the Kingdom to.

        What’s missing are word for word accounts of him preaching the Kingdom message to unbelievers, These accounts are either lost, or were kept out of the canon of the bible. Just like there are more than 2 letters to the Corinthians.

        Also, one must understand that it took over 300 years for the bible to be canonized, many writings were lost, or left out of the canon for various reasons, some of them legitimate, others maliciously.

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        1. doctrine Post authorJuly 6, 2016 at 8:39 pm

           Matthew,
           Paul preached the kingdom gospel to the Jews immediately after his salvation (Acts 9.20). After he returned from Arabia he never did. The kingdom of God for Paul meant the realm of God’s rule, not the earthly kingdom. When Paul spoke to Jews he revealed Jesus was the promised Messiah–which for Jews meant the coming of the kingdom of God on earth. See Peter’s sermons in Acts 2-3. But as far as the gospel was concerned, Paul’s gospel was Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Twelve did not proclaim this. To say Jesus and Paul proclaimed the same gospel is error. One only need read Acts 15 to understand the Twelve proclaimed an entirely different gospel than Paul. The Twelve did not know or understand Paul’s gospel. Had they, they would not have argued with him. See my article, The Great Hinge. It did not take 300 years for the Bible to be canonized. The canon completed with Paul’s second letter to Timothy (Colossians 1.25 DARBY). No Scriptures have been lost. We have the full Word of God.

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           1. Larry Orr July 8, 2016 at 5:12 pm

              Matthew you are correct
              I have been sent from my Lord to awaken the deceived who have become believers of lies and not the lover of the Truth. I do think that when Peter announced that by the meeting being under the Holy Spirit that the Gospel of salvation was given to the Gentiles (which was salvation by Grace and not Law) was for the Jews to be saved by was before the Lord Jesus gave him (Peter) back his salvation ,after His resurrection, when He asked Peter if he loved Him John 21 17Jesus asked a third time, “Simon son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was deeply hurt that Jesus had asked him a third time, “Do you love Me?” “Lord, You know all things; he replied, “You know I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. Peter at the Jerusalem Council did not have the Father’s Holy Spirit when he made that ruling. Salvation is given to those who LOVE the Lord and will obey Him. Peace always

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              1. doctrine Post authorJuly 8, 2016 at 5:52 pm

                 Larry,
                 You are correct. Salvation is given to those who love the Lord and obey Him. The only way to love and obey Christ is to believe Paul’s gospel and follow his doctrines, because the Lord gave them to Paul. To follow Christ is to follow Paul. All other ways are deception. Peter recognized this at the Council under the power of the Holy Spirit and recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture shortly before he was executed (2 Peter 3.16).

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     4. Ilya Petrenko May 23, 2018 at 10:39 am

        There are more Christians than all other religions and atheism combined. Maybe its the wide path, maybe its the nations being preached to being fulfilled. Somethin still doesn’t sit well with me about Paul though… Anyone could say they had a vision from God, especially a well trained spy, similar to modern day Putin for example. The Sanhedrin had a plan to kill Christ, which was part of controlling the dialogue that came afterwards. In the same way all governments have rewritten history in favor of the victor, the Sanhedrin knew exactly what to say and who to send – a Roman Pharisee who loved slaughtering followers of Christ. The same man who wrote most of his gospels while under roman care “as if they didnt know” when they had em in chains. Guess im still finding answers and asking better questions. Makes me wonder, if everyone is learning at a different stage at a different time, then what is THE WAY that will bring us all on the same page?

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        1. doctrine Post authorMay 23, 2018 at 10:59 am

           Ilya,
           Paul suffered more than almost anyone who lived. He had it made as a Pharisee. His life makes no sense other than he met the risen Christ and became His most devoted follower. The rest of the apostles all recognized Paul was God’s chosen apostle of the Gentiles. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners? and Paul’s “Mystery”.

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           1. Ilya Petrenko May 27, 2018 at 11:01 am

              By the way…. I GREATLY appreciate this website, its authors and all who have taken the time to post their understandings. All i want is Truth. Thank you kindly for your time and patience with me and others as well as yourself :D <3 <3 <3
              peace be with you… all ^-^

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127. Snowman August 5, 2016 at 10:24 am

     Paul does not preach the same Gospel as Christ, Moses, and the prophets. Paul fails the Deuteronomy 13 test. Nothing can be revealed that hasn’t already been revealed and verified by the Torah or the prophets. Paul taught that eating idol meat was ok three times in his writings. Christ, Himself, rejects and condemns this in Revelation 2:6, 2:14-5, and 2:20. A key for understanding Paul is that Christ refers to a modern day Balaam in the early church. Balaam was a for-hire soothsayer whose intent was to persecute the children of Israel for money. On the way to curse Israel, an angel appears and stops him. Balaam them blesses Israel and gives on of the early Messianic prophesies (see Numbers 24). This now true prophet changes teams but in the end is killed for becoming a false prophet. Why? For teaching the children of Israel it was ok to eat idol meat and fornication (Numbers 31:16/ Revelation 2:14). I believe Paul is this Balaam. There stories are eerily similar – man first against God, heavenly revelation stops the persecution from happening, becomes follower and is used in a ministry/prophet capacity for a season, prophet apostatizes himself by teaching contrary to the Torah (Duet 13 test) and is labeled false prophet.

     Still not convinced? How about Jacobs prophesy of the tribe of Benjamin in Gen 49:27 “”Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; in the morning he devours the prey, in the evening he divides the plunder.” Sound familiar? What did Christ warn us about in Matthew 7:15? Wolf in sheep’s clothing. What tribe was Paul from? I will give you one guess see Philippians 3:5 and Romans 11:1 Christ furthermore commends the Ephesians for recognizing a false prophet and kicking him out….hmmm. Who was the primary Apostle with Ephesus? Jude and John also condemn someone in the region for teaching against the Law of Moses and greasy grace.

     Speaking of Apostles, there are only 12 – period. Research the Biblical meaning of the number 13. Acts 1:21-22 gives the requirements of an apostle. Paul doesn’t meet them – period. Matthias replaced Judas in Acts 1:26 by verification of the Holy Spirit by casting lots – these are the 12. Revelation 21:14 verifies only twelve apostles. Where is the 13th? Hmmmm…..

     I know its difficult, I followed Paul for decades. Like it was stated previously, the Bible is not a book. Paul’s letter were never tested against the Deut 13 test by the earthly council that allowed them to be considered cannon. Paul differs from the other’s when he says he got the words from Christ directly. This makes him a prophet. If he speaks contrary to the Torah he is to be condemned. This is not debatable.
     Paul preaches another gospel called “the way”. It is his by his own words. Christ said I didn’t come in my own name but in my Father’s. He didn’t do His will but that of the One who sent Him. Read Paul and it is Paul, Paul, Paul, and some more Paul. Yeah…..no. Somewhere along the lines, Paul became a false prophet just like Balaam. That does mean that some of Paul’s writings aren’t correct. If they are contrary to Torah or the prophets, throw them out as heresy. Myself, I simply ignore most of Paul. I firmly believe Paul should not have been deemed authoritative by the early church council but those guys also brought in all the Pagan holidays, threw out the weekly Sabbath, threw out the Holy Festival days, and changed the calendar.

     Wake up beloved , read Jeremiah 31:31-33. The new covenant is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Israel became the Gentiles nations after exile to Assyria just as Jacob told Joseph they would be. They never came back to the land. They migrated all over after the Assyrian empire collapsed. Jesus/Yeshua said I came only for the lost sheep of Israel. Go find my lost sheep. The lost tribes of Israel are all over the world. You may be one of them – surprise! “My sheep hear My voice”

     Regardless, if your not, you are grafted into Israel through Messiah. There is only one Gospel. The church did not replace Israel. Really? The entirety of Scripture is about the family of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, and the restoration of Israel. Read the Scriptures and stop following the traditions of men. God does not change – period.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 5, 2016 at 11:23 am

        Snowman,
        Paul was saved and commissioned by the risen Christ (Acts 9, 22, 28). To reject Paul is to reject the one who chose him. Paul received his gospel from the risen Lord (Galatians 1.11-12). To reject Paul means one does not only reject Christ but rejects Peter, James, Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, Luke, Mark, etc. They all recognized and accepted Paul’s apostleship. No salvation exists apart from Paul’s gospel (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). And by it, the Lord will judge mankind (Romans 2.16). I urge you to believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead. Apart from this, one is without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life.

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        1. LD June 22, 2019 at 7:39 pm

           Sorry, but I have to ask. When did the gospel of Jesus Christ become the gospel of Paul? We need only believe in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit to be born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

           Believing another gospel is not salvation.

           There is only one name under Heaven whereby we are saved: the name of Jesus.

           There is no “gospel of Paul”.

           There is only the gospel of Jesus Christ.

           If you believe another gospel and in another savior called “Paul” or any other man: such faith does not save.

           Jesu asked Peter whom people said Jesus was. Peter answered that Jesus is THE Christ. And Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter but God the Father did. And on this rock the Kingdom and the church stands.

           Al other ground is sinking sand.

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           1. doctrine Post authorJune 22, 2019 at 8:37 pm

              LD,
              At the Council of Jerusalem Peter came to Paul’s defense and agreed with Paul. He stated that from that day forward one could only be saved only through Paul’s gospel (Acts 15.11). See also what Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3.15-16. To reject Paul means condemnation. When you come to know Christ, you will cease your foolish and demonic statements about Paul. Paul’s gospel is that Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Believe it and live. Reject it and spend eternity in the lake of fire. There is no other choice.

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              1. Neill June 27, 2019 at 9:56 am

                 LD,
                 What do you think of Peter’s support of Paul?

                 Don,
                 am I technically posting wrongly? Three of my submissions I’ve had to re-write because they were no-shows.

                 Neill

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                 1. doctrine Post authorJune 27, 2019 at 10:23 am

                    Neill,
                    No, you’re fine. I did not post them because LD did not reply to my post and does not seem to wish to engage. No point in having a non-conversation.

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128. Snowman August 5, 2016 at 9:48 pm

     Doctrine,

     Please show me in the Tanakh, Old Testament, where any prophecy speaks of Paul or a change in the Law. This is a hard requirement. Christ passes the Duet 13 test because He spoke in complete agreement with the entirety of the Scriptures. Nothing can be revealed unless it was first spoken of in the Torah or prophets Amos 3:7 You can’t have it both ways. The only record of Paul is Paul. Sorry, its a no go from Scripture – period. All of the verses you quote are all Paul’s words. Where are the required witness that supports his claim? Christ Himself did not make a claim like this because it is against Torah. See John 5:31. Every verse you mention is written by Paul or Luke (his best friend). No one refers to Paul as an apostle except Paul and Luke. Show me otherwise. They call him brother. They never accepted his claim to apostleship. Why in the world would Christ change His mind about everything He spoke of post resurrection? Why would he choose a Pharisee to reveal this sudden change over the 12 apostles who will be over the 12 tribes in Revelation? It doesn’t make sense because it is nonsensical.

     We can discuss Paul when you adhere to Amos3:7. You are pleading with me to be fearful of my salvation because I reject Paul’s gospel and there is no salvation outside of Paul’s doctrine. Wow my friend, I sincerely urge you to read the words of the one you call Savior. His Gospel is not Paul’s gospel. They are not even remotely related. Paul says the Law is dead, a curse, nailed to the cross, and man’s conscience guides him on what is right and wrong. Christ preaches repentance, adherence to the Law, and the Kingdom of God. The Gospel I follow is a seamless, perfect thread woven throughout the entire OT, the Gospels, the writings of Peter, James, and John (you know the guys who actually walked and talked with Christ for three years). You follow a gospel of a self-professed, arrogant man who does not pass the litmus test of the required Scriptures of a prophet. You then quote the writing of that person as justification for his doctrine. Christ didn’t do that who was God in the flesh yet you find it ok for Paul.

     Rejection of the Law is the rejection of Christ. Christ is the walking, talking Torah and you now say it is irrelevant. Chris is the Truth John 14:6. The Torah is called truth in Psalm 119:142 and Psalm 119:160. Either we have two truths or Christ is the Torah. You know that famous verse John 1:1. The Word became flesh. What is the Word? The Word is Torah. The Torah became flesh and now you are following a man who rejects the Law and says the Torah is a curse. No thanks, I show my love for my Savior by keeping His commandments just as He instructed. The Law does not save – ever. Only the atoning blood of Chris saves. However, we are called to walk in obedience and follow Him. Faith without works is dead faith. Works are a result of Torah obedience. Where do you find out what is sin or disobedience is? Its the Torah 1 John 3:4 You can’t have it both ways. Please, reconsider your theology and spend some time in the Scriptures (Old Testament). Replacement theology and dispensationalism is a lie. Many have been deceived.

     In the love of Yeshua Ha Mashiach (Jesus ‘Christ the Messiah’)

     Snowman

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 6, 2016 at 4:36 am

        Snowman,
        What you are saying is you reject pretty much everything Christians call the New Testament. Your view rejects, at the minimum, the writings of Paul, Luke, James. Luke was a constant companion of Paul so you have to get rid of his gospel and Acts. Mark knew Paul well, so his gospel is out. James too. All these men accepted Paul’s apostleship. If his apostleship was not valid as you maintain, their testimony is no good. Paul wrote his doctrines were a secret. You won’t find them in the Tanakh. You won’t find the Law in Genesis 1-Exodus 19, either. God had not disclosed it. We have a progressive revelation. God did not reveal everything at once. The greatest problem of your view, however,is it rejects Christ. He saved, called, and commissioned Paul.

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129. Snowman August 6, 2016 at 11:29 am

     “The greatest problem of your view, however,is it rejects Christ. He saved, called, and commissioned Paul.”

     Where does Christ commission Paul? Where are the required witnesses? At the baptism and transfiguration there are multiple witnesses. Why must we follow Jesus’ requirement of two witnesses for a significant appointment as “Apostle?” Jesus was simply extending the Law’s principle, so that two witnesses were necessary to establish not only a wrong, but also anything as important as God sending someone for a special role. What does Christ himself say.

     Acts 9:7 Acts: 22:7 Acts 22:9 and Acts 26:14. Paul can’t even get his own story straight. Did the men hear, not hear, were they fallen on the earth, or standing. Any defense attorney could rip this testimony up because it contradicts itself.

     Where does a true apostle call Paul an apostle. Site book, chapter, and verse. It doesn’t exist. The only person who calls Paul an apostle is Luke. Paul’s words speak for themselves. His use of personal pronouns in his epistles i.e. “I, me, my, mine” is 3x that of any other writer. Paul urged his followers to follow him. He preached by revelation. Paul preached his doctrine in the ‘name’ of Christ, but his teachings were not in alignment with Christ’s teachings, John 5:43.

     You also never answered my charge that there are only 12 apostles as verified by Christ in Revelation. Who got demoted to make room for Paul? Please also explain the testimony of this “calling” having inconsistency.

     You dont find the Law in Genesis through Exodus? Really? I read in Genesis about Cain and Able bringing their offerings to YHWY. I read about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob building alters for their sacrifice to YHWY. I read about clean and unclean animals on the ark. I read about Joseph saying to Potiphar’s wife that he could not sin against God with her i.e. adultery/fornication Where did he learn that if there was no Law? The Law has always been in place, it just wasn’t written down until Moses. What did God say in Genesis 22:18. Read it. It says you will be blessed because you obeyed my voice. He heard and was obedient. The children of Israel had been in Egypt and most of the oral commands had been lost. God reestablished His instructions to His people who had been lost and removed from following and worshiping Him. To say Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Adam, Abel, Seth, etc did not have God’s Law is very, very presumptuous on your part. Even before sin entered the world, Adam and Eve were in perfect fellowship with God. Did they have rules/instruction in this perfect relationship with God Himself? Absolutely. Was it written down? No. Was it given from God orally – yes. How about the millennial kingdom? Would care to explain why the Law is still active and followed in the millennial kingdom where Christ is King? So according to your Pauline doctrine we have Law, no Law/complete grace, and then Law is back in the kingdom.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 6, 2016 at 1:00 pm

        Snowman,
        You are confused about many things. God the Holy Spirit is the witness of Paul’s commission. It is called inspiration. It seems you will not address the question of the witnesses of Paul such as Luke, Silas, Barnabas, Mark, James, etc. Your view rejects their writings. Essentially, you believe Luke lied and therefore his gospel and Acts are bogus. Revelation is a book written to Jews, not to the Church. No Church, body of Christ, language exists in Revelation. The 12 were apostle of Israel, not to Gentiles, not to the Church, the body of Christ. The 12 never had a ministry to Gentiles. They went to Jews. Peter did go to see Cornelius in Act 10, but that does not constitute a ministry (but if you don’t accept Acts it doesn’t matter). You fail to recognize what Paul taught was not revealed before. It was a new program, just as God began a new program with Abraham. Once God called Abraham, He began to deal with Jews only, not Gentiles. He revealed Himself through Israel, not Gentiles. All Gentile blessing was to come through Jews. That is what the Abrahamic covenant stated. The focus of prophecy is Israel. The Church is not revealed in the Old Testament. Read Psalm 2. This is a summary of God’s prophetic program. Is the Church there? Not one word. The Church, the body of Christ, is a Pauline revelation the apostle received from Christ. As to the law, I wrote the Mosaic Law was not present before Exodus 20. God gave the Law to Moses. The moral law always existed, and certain other laws, but I’m talking about the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was a covenant between God and Israel, not Gentiles. Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law. The Law, cataloged by Maimonides, consisted of 613 commands. These are not found before Exodus 20. The reason this is important is the Mosaic Law was a package. You couldn’t just have a few, you had to have the whole 613 command package. This is why James wrote that to break one law was to break it all. As for the Millennial kingdom, it is the kingdom anticipated by Israel. It is that kingdom Jesus told the apostles to pray for (Matthew 6.10). The primary beneficiary of the Millenial kingdom will be Israel, for during it God will fulfill His covenant promises (See Deuternonoy 28.1, 13; Zechariah 8.23, 14.9). There are hundreds of verses in the OT about this kingdom. It will be Israel who benefits most, and they will be a blessing to Gentiles. The Church is nowhere present. The Church has heavenly position and promises. Israel has earthy position and promises. These are two totally different programs God has established.

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130. Matthew August 6, 2016 at 1:53 pm

     Snowman,
     In Matthew 15:24 Jesus says He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The lost sheep being the Jews. So in Jesus’ own words, during His earthly ministry, His focus was the Jews- not the gentiles. With that being said, where, when and with whom in the scriptures did His ministry move from a Jewish focus to a gentile focus?

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131. Snowman August 6, 2016 at 5:37 pm

     Matthew,

     The Jews are not Israel. Yes, they were once part of Israel i.e. the sons of Jacob but things changed after King David and King Solomon. The name of Israel followed the northern tribes when the nation split under the reign of Rehoboam. The north was called Israel while the south were called Judah or i.e. shortened to “Jews” over time.

     Both were punished with the north being sent into exile into Assyria first around 72o-ish BC. They were given a writ of divorce and never returned to the land. They are refereed to as the lost house of Israel, the lost tribes, the lost sheep, the nations (which that is what Gentile actually means) , the house of Ephraim, or just Israel. This was prophesied by Jacob in Gen 48:19

     The southern kingdom of Benjamin and Judah were exiled to Babylon in 580-ish to 600-ish BC, but God being faithful to the covenant with Abraham allowed them to return to the land and preserved this tribe. Christ is from the tribe of Judah. That is why during Christ ministry he spoke to the Jews (they were the only tribe left other than a remnant of Levi and Benjamin) but at this time they are all refereed to commonly as Jews. Read Kings for more information.

     That is why in Jeremiah 31:31-34 states the new covenant will be with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

     Christ commission was to restore the house of Israel and bring back the family back together. The Law would be written on the heart and no longer on stone. The parable of the prodigal son is the story of the restoration of the two houses. Israel is the younger brother and Judah is the older.

     Hope this helps.

     Doctrine,

     We are vastly apart in our interpretation of Scripture. I don’t adhere to dispensationalism or replacement theology. We can stop there because we are looking at Scripture through entirely different lenses. You can continue to go to church on Sunday, celebrate Easter, eat pork, and celebrate Christmas all in the name of Christ claiming his imputed righteousness for your lawlessness . If you want to say the cross and grace cover the abandonment of the Law then that is your conscience and your prerogative. Your Savior didn’t do that in His earthly ministry and said Himself the Law would be intact and not change until heaven and Earth past. Unless I drastically overslept, those things haven’t happened. You elevate the teachings of Paul over Christ.
     But then again, maybe He changed His mind and figured He would reach out to Paul to set the manner straight since He failed to mention in the Old Testament, the Prophets, Psalms, or while He was here on Earth.

     I will move along. Hopefully someone will read mine and others words posted here , read the versus posted, and have the courage to break out of “Christianity”. Christianity is pagan and influenced heavily by Paul who as your own words taught a “mystery” never know or revealed before. Like I stated, either Amos 3:7 is wrong or Paul is wrong. You made your choice, I made mine. We, in love, will have to agree to disagree my friend.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 6, 2016 at 6:54 pm

        Snowman,
        There are no “lost tribes.” That is a myth foisted upon those ignorant of the Scriptures for decades. Many Jews from the 10 tribes moved to the south, to Judah, and escaped the Assyrians. James wrote to all 12 tribes (James 1.1) as did Peter (1 Peter 1.1). Peter addressed all Israel at Pentecost (Acts 2.36-38). All 12 tribes are identified in Revelation 7. The term “Jew” יְהוּדִי is synonymous with Israel. Jesus was “king of the Jews,” all Israel. The teachings of Christ are the teachings of Paul. All Paul taught came from revelelation of the ascended Christ. By rejecting Paul you reject the risen Christ. If you have every picked up a stick on Saturday, the punishment is death. That is the Mosaic Law. It is as much Law as Exodus 20.3. What you want to do is choose which laws apply to you (not eat pork) and reject the ones you don’t like. Can you not see God fulfilled Amos 3.7 with Paul? The risen Christ revealed secrets to Paul He revealed to no one before. God is in debt to no man. No amount of law-keeping, no amount of good works will result in salvation. God is holy. The only way to have salvation by keeping the Law is to keep it perfectly. In other words, one has to be as good as God. I don’t think you would make this claim. We all are sinners and need a Savior. I hope the Lord will open your eyes to His work on the cross and His resurrection and you will believe the gospel and be saved (1 Corinthians 15.1-4; Romans 4.4-5).

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132. Paul Miller August 6, 2016 at 6:43 pm

     It seems as though the ministry to Gentiles began under the apostle Paul, who was directed from Jesus in his post-ascension ministry. This seems to have happened some time in mid-Acts.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 6, 2016 at 7:33 pm

        Paul,
        The account of Paul’s salvation and commission is first recorded in Acts 9. The Lord revealed to Ananias that Paul was to carry His name to the Gentiles. Paul first went to the synagogue and proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom, that Jesus was the Son of God (Acts 9.20). He did not know the gospel of the grace of God, which the Lord probably revealed to him when he went to Arabia. In Acts 11.20, we read about believing Jews who came from Cyprus and preached the gospel of the kingdom to Gentiles. They were saved. The word came to Jerusalem (they didn’t know what to make of this!) Barnabas immediately went to find Saul. This shows what the Lord told Ananias about Paul was known: that he minister to Gentiles, but what this meant no one really understood. In Arabia, Paul probably began to receive from the Lord the many revelations and secrets of the Church, the body of Christ, and other doctrines. The point of all this was that the Lord selected Paul to head up salvation of Gentiles and began a new program, the Church. You may wish to read Paul: Chief of Sinners? as I explore this matter further.

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133. Matthew August 6, 2016 at 8:14 pm

     Snowman,
     Thank you for taking the time to give me your synopsis of 1 and 2 Kings. However, your response did not answer my question. When did the gospel go to those who are not of any of the 12 tribes of Israel? Who in the scriptures conveyed the message to those people? We must remember that the whole bible is for us but not to us. If it all was for us we would all be killing livestock as well as building arks. Not trying to sound sarcastic but this is reality. We have to see and understand where we as non- israelites fit into the scriptures. This was accomplished by God through Paul after he received direct revelation from the risen Lord Jesus. May the Lord reveal the truths of this mystery to you by the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Grace and peace.

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     1. Bobbi August 11, 2016 at 8:39 pm

        Hi Matthew. Not a scholar just a lowly sister , but I would say when God walked the covenant out by Himself, while Abram was in a deep sleep is the biggest time. Through faith by Gods Grace started there to me. He’s used as The example in the new testament several times. Just a beautiful of God doing this covenant. Remarkable!

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134. Carole August 7, 2016 at 1:38 am

     I understand now…if you are required to still keep the law for salvation, you cannot pick and choose what part of the Mosaic law you are going to keep…you must obey all laws. For salvation either the church is under Paul’s gospel, or under the old testament laws of the Jews. There is no in between. It is impossible today to keep the Mosaic Law. How very mixed up these “religions” are with their cherry picking throughout the Scriptures! Most religions want to forget Jesus came as the Jewish Messiah, and as promised, will return as the Jewish Messiah, the King of the Jews.

     Thank you, Doctrine, for the blessings of understanding you are sharing on this site. Your education and talents are greatly appreciated.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 7, 2016 at 8:05 am

        Carole,
        Thank you. You might like to read, Paul and the Law. We are not under the administration of the Mosaic Law but we are not lawless. We are under the administration of the Holy Spirit and keep the moral law by means of the Holy Spirit, by yielding ourselves to God.

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        1. Carole Meyers August 7, 2016 at 10:42 pm

           Thank you. Yes, I do understand we are directed by the Holy Spirit and are not lawless. We also benefit from Christ’s teaching the Jews in OT scripture.

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135. Joe August 11, 2016 at 7:39 pm

     Doctrine,

     An essay on the Angelic Conflict would be appreciated. I believe there is a reason we are lessor than angels. I believe that if humans can do it then angels have no excuse. …I just don’t have many specifics. ….and if anyone ever asks what’s the point and why are we here?….that’s the point and that’s why we are here.

     Reply ↓
     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 11, 2016 at 8:21 pm

        Joe,
        I deal a bit with this in Job: A Peek Behind the Curtain.

        Reply ↓
136. Brad August 14, 2016 at 5:29 pm

     Hey Doc, thanks for the article. I’m kinda new to the concept of rightly dividing, but I’m beginning to see. Sometimes it really bothers me to hear people hold totally opposite views while reading the same Bible.
     Just curious, but what do you think about this: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” John 16:12
     And, “Verily, verily I say unto you, he that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth Him that sent me.” John 13:20
     And, “And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And He said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, AND OF THOSE THINGS IN THE WHICH I WILL APPEAR UNTO THEE; delivering thee from the people, and from the GENTILES, UNTO WHOM NOW I SEND THEE, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” Acts 26:15-18 (emphasis mine). I believe our Sovereign Lord knew exactly what he was doing, and perhaps even prophesied about Paul.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 14, 2016 at 7:33 pm

        Brad,
        Everything Jesus spoke about in His earthly ministry concerned Israel and God’s prophetic plan, i.e., Day of the Lord, earthly Kingdom. Nothing about the Church was revealed until after Paul was saved. See my article, Paul: Chief of Sinners?

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137. Nnamdi Eyinnaya August 15, 2016 at 2:32 pm

     Don

     I want to thank you for your honesty in clearly showing that there is a difference between the Gospel that Jesus taught and Paul’s. Many Christians would rather hide their head in the sand and pretend there is none. Having said that I believe that the difference exist to show us that Paul wasn’t sent by the Lord. He may have been initially but taught his own doctrine as he calls it because he failed to learn from the disciples before him.

     The gospel Paul preached is different from that of Jesus. While Paul’s gospel is about “the grace of God.” (Acts 20:24). This says: “Rejoice: Jesus died for our sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Jesus’ gospel on the other hand is not about dying for sins but about the kingdom of God. This says: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17).

     Paul says there is one gospel for Gentiles, which he claims was committed to him; and another gospel for Jews, which he claims was committed to Peter: “The gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for he who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles).” (Galatians 2:7-8). However, Jesus does not have two contradictory gospels; one for Jews and another for Gentiles.

     Paul’s asserts that his gospel had to be hidden from Satan, otherwise Jesus would not have been crucified: “We speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” (1 Corinthians 2:7-8). This mystery of the gospel is such a big deal, according to Paul, that he pleads with the Ephesians: “Pray for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel.” (Ephesians 6:19).

     But what exactly is this mystery of the gospel? What mystery can there be in the gospel that Jesus himself failed to reveal?Remember, Jesus told his disciples he has left nothing out: “Be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.” (Mark 13:23).

     According to Paul, this mystery is that: “the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of (God’s) promise in Christ through the gospel.” (Ephesians 3:6). Simply put, it means Gentiles will share in the promises of God to Israel. However what Paul is calling “a great mystery” turns out to be actually no mystery at all. Paul’s “great mystery” was prophesied again and again by the prophets. Paul himself admits this elsewhere, thereby contradicting himself. While he called his gospel a hidden mystery to the Ephesians, he told Festus it was no mystery at all because it had long been prophesied by Moses and the prophets. Hear him: “Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come- that the Christ would suffer, that he would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” (Acts 26:22-23).

     There was nothing hidden or mysterious about the fact that the light of God would be proclaimed to the Gentiles, to make them partakers of his promise to the Jews. It was implied when God told Abraham he would be the father of many nations. “Many nations” means it would not be limited to the Jewish nation but Gentiles would be included. Indeed, the headquarters of Jesus’ ministry was in Gentile land: “Galilee of the Gentiles.” (Matthew 4:15; Isaiah 9:1) so it is not true that Jesus only ministered to the Jews except 2 gentiles.

     Here is Paul contradicting himself by affirming the inclusion of the Gentiles in God’s promises was long revealed in the scriptures; the very thing he claims elsewhere is a “great mystery:” “Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: ‘For this reason I will confess to you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.’ And again he says: ‘rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people!’ And again: ‘praise the Lord, all you Gentiles! Laud him, all you peoples!’ And again, Isaiah says: ‘There shall be a root of Jesse; and he who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles, in him the Gentiles shall hope.’” (Romans 15:8-12).

     Paul’s “mystery” is entirely the product of his pomposity: “Inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.” (Romans 11:13). You can find Paul’s “hidden mystery” exposed for all to see again and again in the scriptures.

     “Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” (Isaiah 42:1).

     “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” (Isaiah 49:6).

     “Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles, and raise my signal to the peoples.” (Isaiah 49:22).

     “The Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.” (Isaiah 60:3). “O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the Gentiles come from the ends of the earth.” (Jeremiah 16:19).

     “From the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the Gentiles.” (Malachi 1:11).

     I repeat Jesus does not have two contradictory gospels; one for Jews and another for Gentiles. Long before Paul appeared on the scene, God called Peter to the Gentiles through Cornelius. (Acts 10:1-48). Peter himself acknowledged this: “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.” (Acts 15:7). Nevertheless, Peter did not find it necessary to change the message of the gospel to the Gentiles from what he preached to Jews. On his resurrection, Jesus told his disciples: “Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to do everything I have told you.” (Matthew 28:19-20).

     Jesus did not say there would be a different gospel for all nations, apart from the Jews.
     Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 15, 2016 at 4:55 pm

        Nnamdi,
        Jesus is the same, but He created different programs over time. God revealed Himself for 2,000 years to all mankind. He then called Abraham, created the Jewish people, and revealed Himself through them. Jesus came in His earthly ministry to fulfill the promises He had made to Israel. That was the gospel of the kingdom. But the fulfillment of those promises required Israel to repent. They would not. They crucified Him. Even after He rose from the dead, they would not repent. Rather than initiate the Day of the Lord, God’s wrath, God in His mercy, saved Paul to proclaim the gospel to Gentiles. Thus, God went first to Jews but when they rejected Him, turned to Gentiles. Just as He called Abraham, 2,000 years before, He called Paul. Like Moses, Paul was the humblest man on earth. He understood how bad he had been and how God’s grace had saved him. He is the founder of the Church, the founder of Christianity. Outside of Paul’s gospel, there is no salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). I encourage you to believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead. Apart from this, there is not hope or eternal life. Grace and peace.

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138. Norlene Hopkinsn August 15, 2016 at 6:42 pm

     I have to agree here, the gospel according to Joseph smiths is very close to pauls, the treatment of women by Jesus was loving, but Paul’s was more like slavery, its to bad Paul had to ruin the bible and Jesus’s teachings.

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     1. doctrine Post authorAugust 15, 2016 at 6:57 pm

        Norlene,
        Such statements reveal you are without Christ, without hope, and without eternal life. Salvation is only by trusting in Christ’s death and resurrection. This is Paul’s gospel and there is not salvation apart from it. I hope you will believe it and live.

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     2. Vanessa August 16, 2016 at 1:18 am

        Norlene, It breaks my heart when I read comments like yours. I was so shocked in what you said that I gasped when I read it. I leave you with sadness in my heart. Emptiness and bitterness is all I witnessed in your words. How so very sad.

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     3. Bobbi August 16, 2016 at 12:13 pm

        Nnamdi Eyinnaya,
        Sister. I hope you believe all scripture. All is given by God.
        1Thessalonians 4:8 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for fireproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnishing all good works.
        Hebrews 4:6 says ” Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief.”
        Usually when I read a scripture that doesn’t settle well, I either need to study it out , and lots of times God gets our attention with the words. “for the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the devising asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerned of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12.
        So have faith in God and know all scripture is given by men as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I pray that God will soften your heart and give you a revealing of Paul’s gospel. It is Jesus preaching still but after He had risen. Galatians 1:11-12. This also is from God. 2Corinthians 5:17-20. Believe all scripture.

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        1. Bobbi August 16, 2016 at 12:29 pm

           Also, the Isaiah 53 was and is veiled still to Israel. Romans 11:7-11.
           We the gentiles were outside the relationship to God that Israel had. Jacob’s (Israel) people were God’s. There are prophesies that we can see now with our Jesus glasses on, but no plan was yet in play for us. The Gospel of Grace is the Gospel to the gentiles nations. He has put forth the plan for us to be one with Him. 2 Corinthians 15:1-4 , also Acts 20:24

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139. Bobbi August 16, 2016 at 12:56 pm

     The other thing is if when we read the Bible in its entirety it has become clear to me that man fell and ever since God has been working to save all mankind, beginning with Israel. It has been a process. Parts of the plan are revealed in steps. First God was talking with people, e.g…. Cain, and Naoh.
     Then Moses, when Israel became a nation. Then the nation had judges then kings, and then Israel fell .
     Then God revealed there would come a Saviour to save THIS people. Then when they were saved they would be a light to all nations. So when Jesus came, He came first of all for Israel, at which point the message was Repent, and be baptized for the kingdom of heaven was at hand. (As Jesus was here!)
     2nd of all for all nations, which would only be through His death and resurrection. It’s all part of His process. We can’t pick and choose what we like. It’s Gods way only.

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140. Faith August 16, 2016 at 5:21 pm

     To these lovely ladies – How would you know grace without Pauls message? You would still have to be under Jewish leadership and law? Are you going to a Messianic church or synagogue at this time? Even most Jews are not keeping up with the law. Are you sure you are saved and going to heaven or are you working enough? I love Pauls message of Grace (which is from Jesus). Were Peter, James, and John wrong then for coming to the conclusion that Paul WAS RIGHT? I do not find Paul to be terrible to women at all; many women were deacons and served right along Paul. You also have to look at cultural and historical context at the time of Rome. We don’t need head coverings and we as Christians wear jewelry. At that time women were asked (NOT FORCED) to be considerate of other Christians and not to be stumbling blocks with these issues. The Gentile women at the time of Rome who did not cover their heads were considered part of the pagan temples. If you would want to compare- we as Christian women today would be encouraged not to wear tight short skirts because they have the look of prostitution. Also, Paul encouraged and exhorted women and men to be submitted to one another, not man being a chauvinist.
     I would encourage one to have a another look at Paul- I have found him to be a very loving and encouraging teacher and the only one that taught the separation of law and grace. We are free from law and have freedom to serve Christ through love towards him. I can guarantee you that once you see this you will be at such peace in your soul.

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141. obijuru August 24, 2016 at 2:11 pm

     I love this article

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142. michael layton September 5, 2016 at 10:14 pm

     DO YOU NEED TO REPENT TO BE SAVED. DOES PAUL TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO REPENT.

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     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 6, 2016 at 9:23 am

        Michael,
        Paul’s emphasis was “believe.” Only once in his letters did he mention repentance for unbelievers (Romans 2.4). Paul told believers to repent, not unbelievers. But repentance is implicit in belief. One can only believe if one repents, i.e., changes one’s mind about God, sin, one’s condition, etc.

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143. James September 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm

     In Luke 21:8 Jesus says, “Take heed that you are not lead astray; for many will come in my name saying,’The time is at hand!’ Do not follow them.

     In Romans 13:12 Paul says, “The night is far gone, the day is at hand.”

     I am not a Christian anymore. I have converted to Judaism and I am now devoting my time studying Jesus’s gospels in the light of the Torah.

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     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 7, 2016 at 8:46 am

        James,
        Any true Christian remains a Christian. The scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day studied the Scriptures diligently but did not know God was in their midst. Salvation is through believing Paul’s gospel: Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). One cannot know God apart from believing the gospel. I hope you will come to God.

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144. Cyrus September 15, 2016 at 10:20 am

     Hell0,

     Don’t be deceived by this so called Followers of Paul . Read Ezekiel 18:20 onwards.
     Everyone is responsible for his sins, no one will die or bear the sins on another.

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     1. doctrine Post authorSeptember 15, 2016 at 1:51 pm

        Cyrus,
        I have good news for you. Christ died for you your sins and rose from the dead. He paid for all sins and defeated death. Believe the gospel and you will have life, joy, and peace (1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

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145. kevin quillen October 3, 2016 at 3:40 am

     doctrine; Ephesians 2:14-16 there is no longer Jews and gentiles. Only one race in the eyes of God. Jews lost their position as God’s chosen. When temple was destroyed in 70 AD old covenant ended and new came in it’s fullness. 1 Cor 13:10, “when that which is perfect is come”. One covenant one people. Christ came back in 70 AD, resurrection happened, harvest happened, Rev 14:13 “henceforth blessed are those who die in the Lord”. All this is entailed in the “Day of the Lord” found throughout scripture. The “perfect” is the New Covenant”. Consider this, Heb 9:28, If Christ has not yet returned then He has not fulfilled His role as High Priest, we cannot know for sure that we are saved. See Lev 16:11-15 for duty of H.P. His second appearance was to show the people that the sacrifice was accepted by God and they were clean. Food for thought.

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 3, 2016 at 8:00 am

        Kevin,
        In the Church, the body of Christ, Jew and Gentile do not exist. The Church was a Pauline revelation. Jesus never revealed the Church, the body of Christ, and Peter knew nothing of it. God established the Church in light of national Israel’s rejection of the Messiah and God’s prophetic program with Israel remains unfulfilled. None of God’s covenants with Israel have been fulfilled. The “New Covenant” has not been fulfilled. God made the New Covenant with the nation of Israel, not the Church. Read Acts 2. Peter addressed Jews, not Gentiles. Read Acts 3. Peter addressed Jews, not Gentiles. As for the 2nd coming, Jesus told the Jews exactly when He would return (Matthew 23.37-39). Since national Israel has not repented He has not returned (Acts 2.36-38). This was Peter’s message of Acts 2-3. That was what Pentecost was all about. Christ fulfilled His role as High Priest. His priestly function described in Hebrews was His sacrifice for mankind’s sins.

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146. kevin quillen October 4, 2016 at 2:55 am

     doctrine, when did Christ return in fulfillment of His High Priest role? Matt 23:36 says that the Jews in that generation would be punished for the killing of God’s prophets and for killing Jesus. When did this take place? Would it be fair to punish some future Jews for the past? Matt 24:14 says that the gospel will be taken to all nations and then the end? End of what? Gospel great commission requirement was met. Col 1:6, 23, and Rom 1:8.
     We are in the eternal state now. We (Christians) are the temple and God dwells in us. We are the new Heaven and new Earth. ALL is done. Please look at the word “air” in Greek for 1Thess 4:17. It does not fit the rapture. There is a word that fits perfectly and would not cause confusion. Why was it not used? Was this an error or does this mean something else other that the common belief? Also, look at “elements” in 2 Pet 3:10. Does not work for common belief, another error or different concept? Look at the other uses of these words and you will find that dispensationalists are twisting scripture to fit a preconceived notion. My brother, the church has lost it’s way and is teaching foolishness. Same goes for the sign gifts. They are no more. That which is perfect came. Question: let’s say just for giggles that you are right. If national Israel repents what would that mean as far as their salvation?

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 4, 2016 at 8:32 pm

        Kevin,
        Matthew 23.36 refers to the generation that will witness the things Jesus spoke of in the rest of the chapter. The Day of the Lord is one of two major themes in the OT. During this period, God will punish Jews and the nations for unbelief and worship of the Beast. The “end” of Matthew 24.14 is the end of the Tribulation. The word ἀήρ is the atmosphere and fits perfectly with the Rapture. It makes a clear distinction from the 2nd advent where Jesus returns to earth. When national Israel repents Jesus said He would return (Matthew 23.37-39).

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     2. Bobbi October 7, 2016 at 12:39 am

        Kevin Guillen.
        We are not in the Eternal state. Animals still fear man, there is heresy still, false doctrine, and evil abounds in this world. The devil is still at work and is still the Prince of this world. Ephesians 2:2 There is no Jew or gentile right now in Gods eyes Romans 3:10-26. All have sinned. Even though Hebrews is written to the Hebrew people, it still explains Jesus role as High Preist now. Hebrews 9. And the earth is in an entropy state. Paul was made apostle to the gentiles. This age of Grace is in between Israel being in the place of blessing and the time of their redemption. Titus 2:11 All men are in the same boat today unless they believe God’s Gospel of Grace.
        Paul’s gospel was a mystery previously unknown until his time. For believers in Gods Grace through Jesus Christ , His coming is our Blessed Hope. Titus 2:13. Is also called the day of Christ
        Phillipians 1:6. There is no unhappiness mentioned for when He comes for us. It is said we are to “comfort one another with these words”. 1 Thessalonians. 4:18
        God has worked one program at a time. When this age is done and the church taken, then He will proceed with Israel.
        Also if you truly believe we have already gone through the time of Jacobs trouble then your saying God has not kept His own covenants to His own people. For Israel is not currently blessed, and after Jacobs trouble= The day of the Lord, they will repent. They will be His people once more.
        I pray the Lord will give you the light.2 Corinthians 4:1-7

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147. kevin quillen October 5, 2016 at 2:15 am

     doctrine; I notice no comment on the Greek for “elements”. The word for “air” in 1 Thess 4:17 is strongs #109, this does not mean “atmosphere. Strongs #3772 is the word that means “atmosphere”. This clearly makes a difference. So you insist that Matt 23:36 applies to some future Jews. The punishment is clearly for “the killing of the prophets and then Jesus! Look at it this way, if God punished me for a crime my grandfather committed do you think this would be fair? Is not God a God of love and justice? The rapture theory is nonsense. J N Darby is the reason it became prominent along with the help of Scofield. The cause of Christ is harmed by silly teaching that keeps people from Christ. Did you know that C S Lewis said that Matt 24:34 is the saddest verse in the Bible? He thought Jesus was wrong. Last point: Matt 5:18 must be taken to mean, according to your theology that the Jews are still under the law. How can they be without a temple to make their sacrifices in and no High Priest? Are they still under the law?

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 5, 2016 at 9:51 am

        Kevin,
        Do a word study: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G109&t=KJV. The Scriptures have many passages declaring the Day of the Lord, God’s judgment upon mankind. That is the primary theme of Revelation. We know it hasn’t occurred because John describes a world-wide destruction in which most of the world’s population is killed and most the earth is destroyed, including all cities. As for the fairness issue, God does what He wants, but the punishment during the Tribulation is for mankind’s rejection of Christ and worshipping the Beast and Satan. The Rapture is a Pauline doctrine. If you don’t like it you have to get rid of Paul. The Jewish, prophetic program has been temporarily set aside. God’s program today is the Church. What Jews do today without a Temple, Law-keeping, etc. is irrelevant to God’s purposes. After God removes the Church, the Jews will have a Temple and keep the Law. This is clear from Jesus’ words in Matthew 24.15, 20. As to your 1948 question, it is significant in that the Jews have a nation after 2,700 years without one. It was just the first small step to God’s many promises to bring all Jews back into the land and restore them to Himself. Jewish theology operates under two great concepts: the Kingdom of God on earth and the Day of the Lord. These are central and paramount. If one does not understand this, one has no hope of understanding the Scriptures.

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        1. kevin quillen October 6, 2016 at 1:54 am

           doctrine; How long is a generation as used in Matt 24? And please do not say that it refers to a race of people as some do.

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           1. doctrine Post authorOctober 6, 2016 at 9:42 am

              Kevin,
              A generation’s length varies. What Jesus was saying in Matthew 24.14, “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” was that all the things He spoke of would occur in one generation. They could have occurred in the generation of the apostles but they obviously didn’t. They remain future. God allows for multiple possibilities depending on how men respond to Him. He know all outcomes real and potential.

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148. kevin quillen October 6, 2016 at 2:01 am

     doctrine; still no comment on “elements”? Well let me give you a clue. It has nothing to do with earth, dirt, trees, rocks, etc.. It has do do with the law, the same beggarly elements that Paul confronts the Galatians about, heaven and earth are covenant and people.

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 6, 2016 at 9:49 am

        Kevin,
        I have not commented on “elements” because I do not understand your point.

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        1. kevin quillen October 7, 2016 at 2:18 am

           doctrine; the word for elements is “strong’s 4747” the point is that this word has nothing to do with the earth or it’s components. This is a major point. Look at all 4 uses of this word. Paul speaks of the weak and “beggarly elements” when he chastises the Galatians for going back to the law form grace. 2 pet 3:10 is used many times by futurists who use it to “prove” nuclear war in the future. Also you will not commit to the length of a generation. Do you believe that 1948 has any significance to Bible prophecy? This erroneous teaching will someday have to be dropped because it will become abundantly clear that it is error. The rebirth of Israel is used by most futurists still as THE SIGN that we are living in the last days. Do you agree with this? People who teach as you do must ignore several scriptures such as Matt 16:28, Matt 10:23, Col 1:6 and 23, and Rom 1:8. The great commission WAS fulfilled and THE END came in 70 AD. How many kingdoms of God are there? How many ends? The Bible never talks about the end of time, it speaks of the time of the end. Big difference. The covenantal shift. Please study full preterism it will harmonize scripture wonderfully without assumptions or twisting or ignoring scripture.

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           1. doctrine Post authorOctober 7, 2016 at 9:21 am

              Kevin,
              The word στοιχεῖον essentially means “fundamentals.” Meaning is determined by context and writer. Paul used the word the word differently than Peter (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4747&t=KJV). I’ve already explained “generation.” Jesus spoke of the generation who would live to see the Tribulation and His coming, i.e., within 20, 40 years. It is obvious that has not occurred because we have not had the Day of the Lord. How do we know? Because Revelation described the near destruction of all humanity (Matthew 24.22). Has the world witnessed the destruction of every city on earth (Revelation 16.19). Have we witnessed 100 pound hailstones falling? There are hundreds of things yet to be fulfilled. Matthew 16.28 was fulfilled when Peter, James, and John witnessed Christ’s glorification. Potentially, if Israel had accepted Jesus as the Messiah, He would have returned in their lifetime and the prophecy would have been fulfilled in that way. That is why I wrote that God knows all things real and potential but that God allows His plan flexibility according to man’s will. Matthew 10.23 remains unfulfilled since Christ obviously has not returned. Colossians 1.6 is fulfilled (hope laid up in heaven) and 1.23 was and continuing to be fulfilled. Preterism denies the literal fulfillment of hundreds of prophecies and all of God’s covenant promises.

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              1. kevin quillen October 8, 2016 at 1:50 am

                 doctrine; Just a little point about the 100 pound hailstones. They were the ammo from the Roman catapults, painted white, kind of like tracer bullets today, so that the Romans could see where they were aiming by the firelight of the burning city of Jerusalem in the siege when the temple was destroyed. As I have stated study full preterism. Watch Don K Preston’s videos or Paul Whites. Your predetermined meaning of scripture is blinding to the obvious. Israel is not very big. Do you really think that the disciples are not done yet. Matt 10:23. By the way, aren’t they dead? You seem to be listened to by quite a few on this site, but you are teaching falsehoods. Please dig deeper and remove the blinders.

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                 1. doctrine Post authorOctober 8, 2016 at 9:40 am

                    Kevin,
                    The destruction by 100 pound hailstones will kill everyone in the valley of Armageddon. Blood will flow for 175 miles up to horse’s bridles. That obviously has never occurred. Read the Scriptures and don’t be led astray by people who deny them.

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149. kevin quillen October 6, 2016 at 2:44 am

     doctrine; your blue letter Bible info seems to back me up on the point about “air” How will Christians get taken up to be with the Lord if they only go into the air around us? That is the lower air. If the word was strong’s 3772 (the sky) it would make sense. Also here I would like to make a comment about everlasting things. Was Jonah in the whales belly “forever” as Jonah 2:6? Ex 21:6 “he shall serve him forever” Does this “forever” have an end? There are many places where the Hebrew word “olam” is translated as “forever” or “perpetual” or “eternal”. Same with “aionios” in Greek in the New Testament. Neither means “forever” or “eternal” consistently. They are adjectives. An adjective cannot be bigger than the thing it describes. Is a “big” house and a “big” car the same size? Please go to tentmaker.org and research these words. This is why Israel’s covenant ended. It was only “forever” until the New Covenant came. Like the bondservants “forever” was until he died. Forever does not always mean without end.

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     1. doctrine Post authorOctober 6, 2016 at 9:49 am

        Kevin,
        The word ἀήρ means the atmosphere. The main point is that air is not earth. Jesus comes to earth in His 2nd coming, not to air. The Rapture is easy to prove. Paul wrote it was a secret (1 Corinthians 15.51). Was resurrection a secret? No. Was His 2nd advent a secret? No. Case closed.

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     2. Bobbi October 7, 2016 at 12:52 am

        Kevin Guillen,

        1Thessalonians 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
        “Ever” in this passage…
        G3842 – πάντοτε
        G3843 ››
        ‹‹ G3841
        Transliteration: pantote
        Pronunciation: pä’n-to-te
        Part of Speech: adverb
        Root Word (Etymology): From πᾶς (G3956) and ὅτε (G3753)
        Outline of Biblical Usage:
        at all times, always, ever
        KJV Translation Count: 42x
        The KJV translates Strongs G3842 in the following manner: always (29x), ever (6x), alway (5x), evermore (2x).
        Strong’s Definitions: πάντοτε pántote, pan’-tot-eh; from G3956 and G3753; every when, i.e. at all times:—alway(-s), ever(-more).

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150. Mike October 25, 2016 at 1:50 pm

     Kevin,
     The Wine press is in Jordan. (Edom, Bozrah) Isaiah 63:1-3, Revelation 14:19-20. Though they assemble in Armageddon which is North, North West of Jerusalem.

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